***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Wargames]

I'm all for economic populism but you have to follow through and this student loan forgiveness will end up just like Trump's promise for universal healthcare, universal child care, closing the carried interest loophole and infrastructure spending.

It’ll be just like the glorious healthcare he promised and still hasn’t delivered.

But, you know what I bet he would deliver on? More tax cuts for the wealthy.

I know that it would be a lie. I said that, but do you think that matters to Trump? Especially if he is trying to win by potentially short margins and needs a few thousand more suckers votes?

That’s basically what I am saying. We’re dealing with. Narcissistic ******* who is facing ruin if he loses. Biden has to whip his butt and corner him every chance he gets. He has to go out there and not give Trump openings because he and the Republicans will lie, cheat, and steal again if you let them.

 

[IATT]

dwalk31

 

[frink85]

I know that it would be a lie. I said that, but do you think that matters to Trump? Especially if he is trying to win by potentially short margins and needs a few thousand more suckers votes?

That’s basically what I am saying. We’re dealing with. Narcissistic ******* who is facing ruin if he loses. Biden has to whip his butt and corner him every chance he gets. He has to go out there and not give Trump openings because he and the Republicans will lie, cheat, and steal again if you let them.

this. Don’t give him the chance to start his usual BS. Corner his *** during every debate. Cut him off, embarrass him. Dems need to come out with every ad showing all his failures and false promises. Start calling him a thousandaire and watch him squirm.

It’s amazing to me how stupid people are. Him saying “maybe yes maybe no” every time he needs a decision on something means absolutely nothing. Guarantee those student loans are back on track after the election, and he never said that he would delay or forgive them. You believe a guy routinely screws your shh up, and doesn’t pay his bills? Smh

 

[aepps20]

OUR PRESIDENT ELECT LOOKS AMAZING

 

[Deleted member 170883]

Busted out this tee today for my fellow Bernie NTers.

#StillReppin
#TheStruggleContinues

get yourself a new shirt

 

[IATT]

 

[Wargames]

this. Don’t give him the chance to start his usual BS. Corner his *** during every debate. Cut him off, embarrass him. Dems need to come out with every ad showing all his failures and false promises. Start calling him a thousandaire and watch him squirm.

It’s amazing to me how stupid people are. Him saying “maybe yes maybe no” every time he needs a decision on something means absolutely nothing. Guarantee those student loans are back on track after the election, and he never said that he would delay or forgive them. You believe a guy routinely screws your shh up, and doesn’t pay his bills? Smh

He’s going to come into the debates and claim he is the hero that saved us survivors and the economy. He’s going to repeat his earlier lies. He might go out there and say “UBI” I did that and I’ll do it again to restart the economy. You got to go full press on Trump. Not well I am better than him, because he’ll lie and muddy the water just look at what he got impeached for.....

Biden can’t just say “He’s a liar” to desperate people and move on. Hope is a funny thing it makes people real gullible. Biden has to say “He’s a liar and this is how I will actually fix this problem”.

I guess the best way of saying what I’ve been going over in these post is it isn’t the Bernie fans that need to do the work of being better and voting for their lesser choice. It’s Biden job to go out there and get them cause he is going to need them to win this thing. He needs people to believe in him.

 

[-Red-]

Its ironic because you are already selectively ignoring one candidates decades-long record of political action in favor of selectively choosing which votes you disliked from 25 years ago. Maybe let me put one candidates decades long record of political action into perspective in the form a real life example:

-At age 21 I tore up my knee playing basketball in college. Ironically I tore cartilage showing off trying to do a windmill on a 9.5 foot hoop (I obviously failed). I went to the doctor, got an MRI, and had to have arthroscopic surgery on it to fix the tear. Literally the only reason I was able to have said surgery was because of a provision in Obamacare that allowed me to stay on my parent's insurance until I was 26.

-At age 25 I ****ed up my knee again training for a marathon. Same issue, but except for a sudden tear, I had gradual worn and frayed cartilage in my knee and needed to get it shaved via another arthroscopic surgery. Again, I was able to have this surgery because my parents had a better plan than I could currently afford out of college so I could stay on their plan, but not only that, our insurance company couldn't classify it as a pre-existing condition and deny our claim. You can say what you want about Obamacare and whether it was a failed policy, but Obama and Biden help do that for me.

-At age 22 I finally got my MBA and graduated in May. I had my first professional job already lined up, but it didn't start until October of that year. In that time I worked two jobs to pay rent and my loans, but it still wasn't enough. By the time I started work at my first professional job, I had a grand total of $4 in my bank account and my monthly student loan payment was $750. I had graduated with a little over $60K in student loan debt and had to get loans from a bunch of different sources. My first professional job paid me $43k a year. You wont have to do a bunch of math to figure out that even with a $43K job, I still wasn't going to be able to afford rent, a car, and to make 100% of my student loan payments. Thanks to Obama and Biden, I was able to sign up for an income based repayment plan and continue paying on my federal loans without defaulting and wrecking my credit score. Thankfully I have most of my loans paid off with the exception of about $5k in loans that I took out when I was 17 that I had no idea were 20 year loans instead of 10. Say what you want about incremental improvement, but based on the law at the time, without that plan I would have defaulted on my loans and could not have them discharged in bankruptcy and my life would have been drastically different than it is now because I wouldn't have been able to get loans for anything.

-Since we have been consistently talking about climate change, when I graduated from college there was a glut of large SUVs out there that got absolutely god awful gas mileage and were terrible for the climate. I don't know if you remember those ford excursions and hummers that got like 6 mpg, but Obama and Biden helped put into place policies that forced auto makers to increase the MPG requirements to the extent that my SUV now gets 30-35 MPG and is much more efficient than what vehicles were 10 years ago. Obama and Biden also got us into the Paris Agreement which got a bunch of countries to agree to pollution reduction.

Now take a look at the last 30 years of Bernie Sanders policies and tell me what he has taken the lead and gotten passed to help with Healthcare, Student Loans, and Climate Change. Which of these bills has made any changes of the significant issues he is campaigning on?

I'll give Bernie a great deal of credit because he has done an incredible job of moving the conversation toward issues that a lot of young people such as myself face/faced, but at some point those issues have to go from ideas to paper and get passed with enough votes in the senate to become law and you keep ignoring that fact. I would have had absolutely zero issues voting for Bernie and have said such many times, but I can look back at the last 10 years of my life and visibly be able to communicate that one candidate has made my life better. I can't look back at what Bernie has done and say the same. Despite talking about this stuff for decades, he has not passed a sweeping health care bill, student loan bill, or climate change bill. Only one candidate in the race has helped spearhead that, but you can continue to selectively ignore that.

You are free to vote whichever way you choose and if you think moving the country 3 steps forward then 10 steps backwards is the best course of action then that is your prerogative and I implore you to exercise it. If you actually look at Biden's plans and what he has actually done in the last 10 years and think that Trump is still the better candidates then that's fine, you've at least done research and voted based on what you think is best for you (and maybe your family??????).

I lived poor my entire life up until a couple years ago when I turned 28 and got a promotion and could visibly see changes in my life for the better. Being poor ****ing sucks and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Choosing between what type of Ramen you are going to eat when you are 24 years old because it was a choice between healthy food or paying rent and student loans is choice I hope that future generations don't have to make. Choosing to work a **** load of overtime throughout the year to get a couple decent meals a week because your employer pays for overtime meals when you have worked more than 10 hours shifts is a choice I hope no one has to make.

But at the end of the day, none of these plans or issues really affect me right now other than climate change and that may not have a significant impact in my lifetime but will affect my daughter. I'm voting for Biden because I would like to see my daughter have a better and easier life than I had and when I look at the policies of Trump versus Biden, its clear which candidate is the better choice for that. If Biden loses and we get Trump again, cool, my taxes stay low and I just keep contributing to a 529 plan for her college. No sweat here other than reading constant head shaking headlines from the dip**** in command. But for the millions who are still facing these issues then what? They can just go **** themselves because you would rather political ideology win out over real world action? They don't deserve change because no change at all is better than incremental change? I just don't under stand it.

First of all, you seem to have me confused somehow. I have no idea why you think I might be voting for Trump. Zero. To clarify, I will be voting for Biden in November, assuming that he is the Democratic nominee. I will encourage everyone I know to do so as well. Now that that's clear...

Sure, Bernie has operated in a context in which he has been at the progressive fringe of national politics for decades and thus has not been able to succeed in enacting his bold policy proposals. That doesn't mean he hasn't been an effective legislator within this severely problematic context. Hell, he was just at the forefront of ensuring that workers received more robust unemployment benefits with the recent stimulus bill in the Senate (imagine Joe Biden doing that and try not to laugh out loud or shake your head in disgust). So I suppose you can criticize Bernie for not having the power to enact his progressive political agenda, but I'd also point out that since your initial praise was for Biden's current Sanders/Warren-inspired platform—Biden hasn't passed any of that ****, either.

As far as Obamacare, sure, it's better that it exists than if the alternative is what existed before it. I'm glad it helped you out in life, and it has helped millions of other people out. Biden has some hand in helping marshal the bill along. Cool. But since you want to share stories about medical history, here's one for you that shows just how limited Obamacare is. Four years ago, my wife, then–one year old daughter, and I were out of town visiting family over the holidays. My daughter develops what seems like a small abscess and a high fever that she can't shake for like a day and even Tylenol and ibuprofen are starting to become ineffective after about a day. We call our insurance and they okay us to take her to urgent care. We get there and they tell us she has a staph infection and needs to go to the ER. We call insurance and tell them, and they okay it. We get to the ER and they tell us she's going to need emergency surgery and a three-day hospital stay. We call insurance and they okay it. And that's how it plays out. She recovers and things are cool. Except we were out of network, so we're still on the hook for 20% of the costs, which amount to about $10,000. Mind you, my wife and I were both in graduate school at this time and were surviving off of research and teaching assistantships, but I digress. So can I blame Joe Biden, since he didn't have the foresight to push for a single-payer system that would have prevented that insane medical bill? Based on your stance, the answer to that question would be yes. Can I blame him for continuing to fight against such a system, when he could make a different choice today? 100%.

Now, how many millions of people have lost their jobs as a byproduct of Biden's pushing for NAFTA? How many communities have been destroyed? How many tens (hundreds?) of thousands of American families have been negatively impacted by Biden's push for the Iraq War? How many millions of Iraqis have lost their lives? How many millions of Iraqi families have had their lives destroyed? How many millions of individuals have been incarcerated as a byproduct of a tough-on-crime movement of which Joe Biden was a leading national figure, who was a co-architect of the infamous federal crime bill? How many millions of families have been devastated? How many communities? How many millions of families have been devastated by Biden's successful efforts to undermine consumer protections? Hopefully you get the picture.

Now I'm supposed to buy that Biden really cares about these people and these communities? That he will really fight for the causes he's adopted out of political expedience? That's the problem with all the talk about "So-and-so is running/ran/should have run as a [moderate, progressive, whatever] candidate" or "Pete should have never started his campaign running in the progressive lane" or "Warren should have never supported M4A." The entire premise of these kinds of narrative as that politicians are vacuous ciphers who have no enduring political vision or commitments—only an enduring quest for reelection and power, and they will say whatever is expedient toward that end at any given time. Well, if that's your understanding, I suppose you're in luck because Joe Biden certainly fits the bill, just like Hillary before him. Here's hoping that that corrosive and uninspiring brand of politics beats out Trump's barbaric, apocalyptic brand.

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[-Red-]

Why are people still talking about Bernie Sanders?

He's about as relevant as Tulsi Gabbard on Thursday, April 9th in the year 2020.

It's amazing that the same people talking "party unity" and such are so often the same people ****ting on Bernie supporters every chance they get. It's like they're trying their best to alienate those folks. Smart strategy!

 

[RustyShackleford]

Here we go again

 

[Wargames]

It's amazing that the same people talking "party unity" and such are so often the same people ****ting on Bernie supporters every chance they get. It's like they're trying their best to alienate those folks. Smart strategy!

People forget that political campaigns are competition in persuasion. It’s why that Orange bastard won in 2016..... well that Russia and Comey

 

[-Red-]

I believe the rationale is things will get so ****ty in the next 4 years that America will be forced to make a change. Its a bunch of people who come from a position of privilege who are willing and able to sit back and watch things get worse because it doesn't necessarily affect them.

And the flip side of this is the much, much larger "vote blue no matter who" contingent who have been peddling that nonsense for decades despite little to nothing to show for it in terms of addressing inequality, poverty, worker precarity, etc.. In fact, the folks these people have championed have more often than not worked to intensify those issues.

So yeah, there's that, too.

 

[rexanglorum]

Watch any Democratic operative on MSNBC, their eyes light up at the mention of "suburban moderates." They shudder at the mention of Bernie and his supporters. If Joe is as deferential and polite towards us as he is to affluent, PMC Republicans, he'll do well in the general election.

 

[IATT]

 

[RustyShackleford]

osh kosh bosh your point about Sanders fans is undeafeated.

 

[-Red-]

osh kosh bosh your point about Sanders fans is undeafeated.

And what point might that be?

 

[RustyShackleford]

And what point might that be?

You can ask him when he enters the thread.

 

[IATT]

 

[whywesteppin]

I'm going to say this one more time with as much bass as I can muster for you Libbie scums. Body counts don't matter, ventilators don't matter, COVID-19 don't matter, Vroom Zoom calls don't matter, Fredo's condition doesn't matter, social distancing don't matter, Dr. Fraudci don't matter. The only thing that matters is how lean our President ELECT LOOKS IN HIS DAILY BRIEFINGS. HE is carrying da weight really well and he looks gorgeous to be honest. I worry that he's lost too much weight but an elite athlete has to be lean.

He is looking like a spring chicken. I tell you, a pandemic does wonders for his skin. He is looking real good and healthy. Every passing day of being president makes him look even younger (opposite of Obama 2008-16).

But friend, let's be serious here. President Trump's physique is not the only thing that matters. America is a big country and serious things are happening and they matter too.

So I am beyond happy to report that the Dow Jones Industrial Average is UP 285 points today. Libbs have literally NOTHING on Don now.

 

[junglejim]

Now, how many millions of people have lost their jobs as a byproduct of Biden's pushing for NAFTA? How many communities have been destroyed? How many tens (hundreds?) of thousands of American families have been negatively impacted by Biden's push for the Iraq War? How many millions of Iraqis have lost their lives? How many millions of Iraqi families have had their lives destroyed? How many millions of individuals have been incarcerated as a byproduct of a tough-on-crime movement of which Joe Biden was a leading national figure, who was a co-architect of the infamous federal crime bill? How many millions of families have been devastated? How many communities? How many millions of families have been devastated by Biden's successful efforts to undermine consumer protections? Hopefully you get the picture.

Now I'm supposed to buy that Biden really cares about these people and these communities? That he will really fight for the causes he's adopted out of political expedience? That's the problem with all the talk about "So-and-so is running/ran/should have run as a [moderate, progressive, whatever] candidate" or "Pete should have never started his campaign running in the progressive lane" or "Warren should have never supported M4A." The entire premise of these kinds of narrative as that politicians are vacuous ciphers who have no enduring political vision or commitments—only an enduring quest for reelection and power, and they will say whatever is expedient toward that end at any given time. Well, if that's your understanding, I suppose you're in luck because Joe Biden certainly fits the bill, just like Hillary before him. Here's hoping that that corrosive and uninspiring brand of politics beats out Trump's barbaric, apocalyptic brand.

I think it would be best if I start by saying I’m sorry to hear about your Daughter and I’m glad she ended up being okay. I will say I have had a similar situation happen getting hit with out of pocket medical costs because I was out of network and it sucks.

As for the rest of this there is a lot to digest here and I guess we start with NAFTA. Say NAFTA never gets passed in the first place. How confident are you that jobs never get shipped overseas anyways? I honestly don’t know a ton about it since I was 5 when it was enacted, but given the current manufacturing climate it’s a virtual certainty that some of these low skilled jobs would have moved to an overseas manufacturing plant with the spread of globalization. NAFTA or no NAFTA, that is a by product of capitalism. Hell, I worked for a company who created an entire subsidiary in India to do data input for $12 an hour so they didn’t have to pay one of our associates to do it. I’m fairly certain they could have easily hired people in the US to do the same but then they would have had to pay benefits. Absent legislation saying that corporations cannot offshore operations it would be virtually impossible to stop.

I don’t know enough about the rationale behind going to war with Iraq since I was like 13 when it happened, based on what I’ve listened to in some podcasts, many people made the decision to go to war based on fabricated intelligence by republicans. I honestly don’t know enough about it but in hindsight it was the wrong decision.

But on the flip side how many families have been destroyed because Bernie Sanders didn’t support background checks on gun purchases? How many communities were ruined? How many people died? It was real convenient for him to flip his stance in 2016 out of political expedience on that. Did you have the same anger for Bernie when he voted for the crime bill or does that anger only extend to Biden?

Were you angry with Bernie when you paid you medical bill even after he was claiming to have helped write the ACA as recent as the 2016 election? Were you angry with him for not having the foresight to push harder for a single payer system when democrats had the supermajority to get the ACA passed?

You talk about how he was able to get additional unemployment added to the Cares act but fail to mention the benefits added in the bill written in the Senate were actually worse than the benefits proposed by Pelosi and the house democrats. (Also he wasn’t the only person pushing for additional unemployment benefits)

Are you mad at him that he has talked about these same issues for 30 years but has seemingly passed nothing to get them fixed? I’m not at all saying Bernie is a failure by any means either. He has done a great job moving the conversation on issues that I care about, but at some point the conversation has to move from hypothetical to real world. At this point I would still love to hear how M4A goes from being a plan to a reality in our current political climate and necessitating 60 votes in the senate.

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

Same guy

 

[IATT]