So INCEPTION is One of the BEST Movies I have ever seen... Vol. Christopher "The Man" Nolan

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by TheHealthInspector

Originally Posted by UnbornSeed

Originally Posted by ekon one

Noskey wrote:

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ekon one wrote:

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**SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS OR GIVE THEIR OWN THEORY TO HELP SETTLE A DEBATE**:

How come Leo and Juno both were able to get into Limbo without killing themselves? I'm a pretty smart guy, but did I miss something? Currently I'm standing by the idea this is a major plot hole.

I think they went into Leo's dream together, not limbo. Then from there, Juno jumped off the building to get out of that dream, but Leo stayed behind to die with the collapsing building. Then he went into limbo alone.

But I'd need to see that whole scene again to be sure.

Nope, they (Juno and Leo) BOTH went into Limbo together as can be seen from the graphic above and it's stated in the movie. The contradiction and major plot hole is that Fisher had died and entered limbo. According to the facts presented in the movie he should have been in Limbo and not accesible to Leo and Juno unless they killed themselves in the third dream, which they did not. Leo and Juno SHOULD HAVE both entered a fourth dream through the "shared dream device", not Limbo.

UnbornSeed wrote:

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ekon one wrote:

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They plugged into a machine to get to the next dream. Only one in Limbo was Leo when he dies in the van underwater.

Keeping the discussion mature, I don't think you understood this part of the movie. It's clearly stated in the movie that Leo and Juno both entered Limbo after leaving the third dream, I'm backed up by the graphic posted as well. 



Again, I could in fact be the one who was mistaken and missed or misunderstood something in the movie, but I believe I haven't. I think this plot hole actually collapses the whole movie in on itself... 

. Anyone else have any other theories/information I may not have touched upon?

I watched it twice and I know for a fact that leo and juno hooked themselves to the machine to follow mal. whether that was limbo or not they didnt die so they couldn't have gone to limbo. From my grasp of the movie...leo dies in the van so he goes into limbo after saito.



i knew it, i kept reading comments all over the internet say that that they were in limbo but i kept questioning it because im pretty sure i remember seeing them (leo and ellen) connect themselves and fisher to another one of those machines in the third level, on top of that they revived fisher on the third level so he couldnt have been dead and if he were in limbo he'd probably be old(er) by the time they came to rescue him

i was positive that they came up with that 4th dream level on the fly, but i wasnt totally sure because people kept referring to it as limbo, thanks for pointing it out


They were in Limbo.  Fisher dies.  They say so explicitly.  They also explicitly refer to where they go as the limbo Leo and Mal shared.

We can say the characters themselves were mistaken in where they thought they were, but there's no reason to do so.  They don't hook Fisher to a machine to take him there, he's already there after Mal kills him.

Ellen DOES die in Limbo when she jumps off the building, this is her improvised kick, the same one that Mal attempts in the real world.  We're meant to believe that Leo himself wakes up from this kick and leaves Limbo but then dies before he can escape the van (we're not shown on which level he dies on) then returns to Limbo.

It could be a plot hole since Leo says you go to Limbo if you die, but you have to realize he never says this is the ONLY way to get to Limbo.  He just said it's a guaranteed way to go there.  I assume if you die in one dream then wake in Limbo the point is you're not aware that you're in Limbo.  They are able to kick themselves awake from it because they are fully aware that they are dreaming.  People who die are not aware that they're in Limbo because the dreams are so vivid and as far as they know they woke up from the prior dream that they had died in.

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by TheHealthInspector

Originally Posted by UnbornSeed

Originally Posted by ekon one

Noskey wrote:

---

ekon one wrote:

---

**SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS OR GIVE THEIR OWN THEORY TO HELP SETTLE A DEBATE**:

How come Leo and Juno both were able to get into Limbo without killing themselves? I'm a pretty smart guy, but did I miss something? Currently I'm standing by the idea this is a major plot hole.

I think they went into Leo's dream together, not limbo. Then from there, Juno jumped off the building to get out of that dream, but Leo stayed behind to die with the collapsing building. Then he went into limbo alone.

But I'd need to see that whole scene again to be sure.

Nope, they (Juno and Leo) BOTH went into Limbo together as can be seen from the graphic above and it's stated in the movie. The contradiction and major plot hole is that Fisher had died and entered limbo. According to the facts presented in the movie he should have been in Limbo and not accesible to Leo and Juno unless they killed themselves in the third dream, which they did not. Leo and Juno SHOULD HAVE both entered a fourth dream through the "shared dream device", not Limbo.

UnbornSeed wrote:

---

ekon one wrote:

---

They plugged into a machine to get to the next dream. Only one in Limbo was Leo when he dies in the van underwater.

Keeping the discussion mature, I don't think you understood this part of the movie. It's clearly stated in the movie that Leo and Juno both entered Limbo after leaving the third dream, I'm backed up by the graphic posted as well. 



Again, I could in fact be the one who was mistaken and missed or misunderstood something in the movie, but I believe I haven't. I think this plot hole actually collapses the whole movie in on itself... 

. Anyone else have any other theories/information I may not have touched upon?

I watched it twice and I know for a fact that leo and juno hooked themselves to the machine to follow mal. whether that was limbo or not they didnt die so they couldn't have gone to limbo. From my grasp of the movie...leo dies in the van so he goes into limbo after saito.



i knew it, i kept reading comments all over the internet say that that they were in limbo but i kept questioning it because im pretty sure i remember seeing them (leo and ellen) connect themselves and fisher to another one of those machines in the third level, on top of that they revived fisher on the third level so he couldnt have been dead and if he were in limbo he'd probably be old(er) by the time they came to rescue him

i was positive that they came up with that 4th dream level on the fly, but i wasnt totally sure because people kept referring to it as limbo, thanks for pointing it out


They were in Limbo.  Fisher dies.  They say so explicitly.  They also explicitly refer to where they go as the limbo Leo and Mal shared.

We can say the characters themselves were mistaken in where they thought they were, but there's no reason to do so.  They don't hook Fisher to a machine to take him there, he's already there after Mal kills him.

Ellen DOES die in Limbo when she jumps off the building, this is her improvised kick, the same one that Mal attempts in the real world.  We're meant to believe that Leo himself wakes up from this kick and leaves Limbo but then dies before he can escape the van (we're not shown on which level he dies on) then returns to Limbo.

It could be a plot hole since Leo says you go to Limbo if you die, but you have to realize he never says this is the ONLY way to get to Limbo.  He just said it's a guaranteed way to go there.  I assume if you die in one dream then wake in Limbo the point is you're not aware that you're in Limbo.  They are able to kick themselves awake from it because they are fully aware that they are dreaming.  People who die are not aware that they're in Limbo because the dreams are so vivid and as far as they know they woke up from the prior dream that they had died in.

 

[jzero23]

Originally Posted by jamminbyalias

Originally Posted by JZero23

Can someone explain the reason why being in Limbo is so bad? Once you're down there, you just have to kill yourself then you are back to your normal self. Dude and his wife put their heads on the train tracks. The girl and the business guy both jumped off the building and woke up in level 3. He found the Japanese dude and they both shot themselves with the gun on the table.

So what's so bad about being in "limbo"? Too many plot holes in this movie.

It was a great movie, but it seemed like they wrote it as they went along, instead of thinking things through. If you can't die in a dream within a dream because you will be in limbo, but then if you die in limbo you are sent back, then what is there to worry about?

You may be able to kill yourself and get back to "reality"--but when you're stuck in limbo, you're so deep into the dream you may never realize you're dreaming-- you're lost for eternity. Saito and Mal could have easily been stuck in limbo forever (while their brain in 'reality' turned into mush) if Cobb didn't save them.

I don't agree that there are plot holes in the movie-- everything seemed well thought out and if you are questioning certain things in the movie-- they were most likely included (or not included) purposely for a reason (either to spark dialogue, theories, or whatever else with the film). Hell, Chris Nolan has been working on this movie for the past 10 years.

I have read in other forums that in all the 'reality scenes', Cobb is not wearing a wedding ring, and in all the 'dream sequences' he is. Someone has mentioned that you can clearly see Dom's ring finger both on the plane before going into the dream and after the inception when he awakes on the plane-- and in both scenes he is ring-less. But it is clear he has the ring on during the 'inception dream sequences'. This is proof enough for me that he was not dreaming at the end of the film. Why else would Nolan include a detail like that?

Damn some people are really reaching with their theories, not particularly on this board, but in general from what I have read in other forums.

When Ariadne and Cobb go back to get Mal and Fisher, they knew very well that a) they were in limbo and b) the only way out was to die. So Cobb knew how to get out of limbo since he's been there before and got out, correct? So when Saito got shot in dream 1, why not tell him to go to limbo and die, and then come back to them in tip top shape? Instead he made such a big stink about how going to limbo is the worst thing in eternity. Instead of telling them the way out of Limbo. 

To introduce a way to get out of dreams, then say you can't do it because blah blah, then do it at the end to get out of everything? That's a covered up plot hole man...

 

[jzero23]

Originally Posted by jamminbyalias

Originally Posted by JZero23

Can someone explain the reason why being in Limbo is so bad? Once you're down there, you just have to kill yourself then you are back to your normal self. Dude and his wife put their heads on the train tracks. The girl and the business guy both jumped off the building and woke up in level 3. He found the Japanese dude and they both shot themselves with the gun on the table.

So what's so bad about being in "limbo"? Too many plot holes in this movie.

It was a great movie, but it seemed like they wrote it as they went along, instead of thinking things through. If you can't die in a dream within a dream because you will be in limbo, but then if you die in limbo you are sent back, then what is there to worry about?

You may be able to kill yourself and get back to "reality"--but when you're stuck in limbo, you're so deep into the dream you may never realize you're dreaming-- you're lost for eternity. Saito and Mal could have easily been stuck in limbo forever (while their brain in 'reality' turned into mush) if Cobb didn't save them.

I don't agree that there are plot holes in the movie-- everything seemed well thought out and if you are questioning certain things in the movie-- they were most likely included (or not included) purposely for a reason (either to spark dialogue, theories, or whatever else with the film). Hell, Chris Nolan has been working on this movie for the past 10 years.

I have read in other forums that in all the 'reality scenes', Cobb is not wearing a wedding ring, and in all the 'dream sequences' he is. Someone has mentioned that you can clearly see Dom's ring finger both on the plane before going into the dream and after the inception when he awakes on the plane-- and in both scenes he is ring-less. But it is clear he has the ring on during the 'inception dream sequences'. This is proof enough for me that he was not dreaming at the end of the film. Why else would Nolan include a detail like that?

Damn some people are really reaching with their theories, not particularly on this board, but in general from what I have read in other forums.

When Ariadne and Cobb go back to get Mal and Fisher, they knew very well that a) they were in limbo and b) the only way out was to die. So Cobb knew how to get out of limbo since he's been there before and got out, correct? So when Saito got shot in dream 1, why not tell him to go to limbo and die, and then come back to them in tip top shape? Instead he made such a big stink about how going to limbo is the worst thing in eternity. Instead of telling them the way out of Limbo. 

To introduce a way to get out of dreams, then say you can't do it because blah blah, then do it at the end to get out of everything? That's a covered up plot hole man...

 

[dr813]

I seen this movie last night. This movie is too dope. One of the illest movies I've seen in a long time. It reminded me of the matrix. I definately gotta get this on DVD. This movie is hard to keep up with if your not paying attention IMO. This movie is a must see. 5/5 easy.  

 

[dr813]

I seen this movie last night. This movie is too dope. One of the illest movies I've seen in a long time. It reminded me of the matrix. I definately gotta get this on DVD. This movie is hard to keep up with if your not paying attention IMO. This movie is a must see. 5/5 easy.  

 

[jamminbyalias]

Originally Posted by JZero23

Originally Posted by jamminbyalias

Originally Posted by JZero23

Can someone explain the reason why being in Limbo is so bad? Once you're down there, you just have to kill yourself then you are back to your normal self. Dude and his wife put their heads on the train tracks. The girl and the business guy both jumped off the building and woke up in level 3. He found the Japanese dude and they both shot themselves with the gun on the table.

So what's so bad about being in "limbo"? Too many plot holes in this movie.

It was a great movie, but it seemed like they wrote it as they went along, instead of thinking things through. If you can't die in a dream within a dream because you will be in limbo, but then if you die in limbo you are sent back, then what is there to worry about?

You may be able to kill yourself and get back to "reality"--but when you're stuck in limbo, you're so deep into the dream you may never realize you're dreaming-- you're lost for eternity. Saito and Mal could have easily been stuck in limbo forever (while their brain in 'reality' turned into mush) if Cobb didn't save them.

I don't agree that there are plot holes in the movie-- everything seemed well thought out and if you are questioning certain things in the movie-- they were most likely included (or not included) purposely for a reason (either to spark dialogue, theories, or whatever else with the film). Hell, Chris Nolan has been working on this movie for the past 10 years.

I have read in other forums that in all the 'reality scenes', Cobb is not wearing a wedding ring, and in all the 'dream sequences' he is. Someone has mentioned that you can clearly see Dom's ring finger both on the plane before going into the dream and after the inception when he awakes on the plane-- and in both scenes he is ring-less. But it is clear he has the ring on during the 'inception dream sequences'. This is proof enough for me that he was not dreaming at the end of the film. Why else would Nolan include a detail like that?

Damn some people are really reaching with their theories, not particularly on this board, but in general from what I have read in other forums.

When Ariadne and Cobb go back to get Mal and Fisher, they knew very well that a) they were in limbo and b) the only way out was to die. So Cobb knew how to get out of limbo since he's been there before and got out, correct? So when Saito got shot in dream 1, why not tell him to go to limbo and die, and then come back to them in tip top shape? Instead he made such a big stink about how going to limbo is the worst thing in eternity. Instead of telling them the way out of Limbo. 

To introduce a way to get out of dreams, then say you can't do it because blah blah, then do it at the end to get out of everything? That's a covered up plot hole man...

Because going into limbo is a risk, a HUGE risk. Once in limbo, you're so deep into the dream, that you don't know you're dreaming-- you can't differentiate between the dream and reality. Cobb and Ariadne were in limbo for seconds, they could remember the truth. Saito was in there for decades-- obviously he slowly forgot and limbo became his reality. Cobb ran just as much of a risk when he went into limbo to save Saito, he damn near forgot why he was there.

 

[jamminbyalias]

Originally Posted by JZero23

Originally Posted by jamminbyalias

Originally Posted by JZero23

Can someone explain the reason why being in Limbo is so bad? Once you're down there, you just have to kill yourself then you are back to your normal self. Dude and his wife put their heads on the train tracks. The girl and the business guy both jumped off the building and woke up in level 3. He found the Japanese dude and they both shot themselves with the gun on the table.

So what's so bad about being in "limbo"? Too many plot holes in this movie.

It was a great movie, but it seemed like they wrote it as they went along, instead of thinking things through. If you can't die in a dream within a dream because you will be in limbo, but then if you die in limbo you are sent back, then what is there to worry about?

You may be able to kill yourself and get back to "reality"--but when you're stuck in limbo, you're so deep into the dream you may never realize you're dreaming-- you're lost for eternity. Saito and Mal could have easily been stuck in limbo forever (while their brain in 'reality' turned into mush) if Cobb didn't save them.

I don't agree that there are plot holes in the movie-- everything seemed well thought out and if you are questioning certain things in the movie-- they were most likely included (or not included) purposely for a reason (either to spark dialogue, theories, or whatever else with the film). Hell, Chris Nolan has been working on this movie for the past 10 years.

I have read in other forums that in all the 'reality scenes', Cobb is not wearing a wedding ring, and in all the 'dream sequences' he is. Someone has mentioned that you can clearly see Dom's ring finger both on the plane before going into the dream and after the inception when he awakes on the plane-- and in both scenes he is ring-less. But it is clear he has the ring on during the 'inception dream sequences'. This is proof enough for me that he was not dreaming at the end of the film. Why else would Nolan include a detail like that?

Damn some people are really reaching with their theories, not particularly on this board, but in general from what I have read in other forums.

When Ariadne and Cobb go back to get Mal and Fisher, they knew very well that a) they were in limbo and b) the only way out was to die. So Cobb knew how to get out of limbo since he's been there before and got out, correct? So when Saito got shot in dream 1, why not tell him to go to limbo and die, and then come back to them in tip top shape? Instead he made such a big stink about how going to limbo is the worst thing in eternity. Instead of telling them the way out of Limbo. 

To introduce a way to get out of dreams, then say you can't do it because blah blah, then do it at the end to get out of everything? That's a covered up plot hole man...

Because going into limbo is a risk, a HUGE risk. Once in limbo, you're so deep into the dream, that you don't know you're dreaming-- you can't differentiate between the dream and reality. Cobb and Ariadne were in limbo for seconds, they could remember the truth. Saito was in there for decades-- obviously he slowly forgot and limbo became his reality. Cobb ran just as much of a risk when he went into limbo to save Saito, he damn near forgot why he was there.

 

[parada45]

Never been so confused by a movie lol

 

[parada45]

Never been so confused by a movie lol

 

[mronegative]

Originally Posted by jamminbyalias

Originally Posted by JZero23

Originally Posted by jamminbyalias

Originally Posted by JZero23

Can someone explain the reason why being in Limbo is so bad? Once you're down there, you just have to kill yourself then you are back to your normal self. Dude and his wife put their heads on the train tracks. The girl and the business guy both jumped off the building and woke up in level 3. He found the Japanese dude and they both shot themselves with the gun on the table.

So what's so bad about being in "limbo"? Too many plot holes in this movie.

It was a great movie, but it seemed like they wrote it as they went along, instead of thinking things through. If you can't die in a dream within a dream because you will be in limbo, but then if you die in limbo you are sent back, then what is there to worry about?

You may be able to kill yourself and get back to "reality"--but when you're stuck in limbo, you're so deep into the dream you may never realize you're dreaming-- you're lost for eternity. Saito and Mal could have easily been stuck in limbo forever (while their brain in 'reality' turned into mush) if Cobb didn't save them.

I don't agree that there are plot holes in the movie-- everything seemed well thought out and if you are questioning certain things in the movie-- they were most likely included (or not included) purposely for a reason (either to spark dialogue, theories, or whatever else with the film). Hell, Chris Nolan has been working on this movie for the past 10 years.

I have read in other forums that in all the 'reality scenes', Cobb is not wearing a wedding ring, and in all the 'dream sequences' he is. Someone has mentioned that you can clearly see Dom's ring finger both on the plane before going into the dream and after the inception when he awakes on the plane-- and in both scenes he is ring-less. But it is clear he has the ring on during the 'inception dream sequences'. This is proof enough for me that he was not dreaming at the end of the film. Why else would Nolan include a detail like that?

Damn some people are really reaching with their theories, not particularly on this board, but in general from what I have read in other forums.

When Ariadne and Cobb go back to get Mal and Fisher, they knew very well that a) they were in limbo and b) the only way out was to die. So Cobb knew how to get out of limbo since he's been there before and got out, correct? So when Saito got shot in dream 1, why not tell him to go to limbo and die, and then come back to them in tip top shape? Instead he made such a big stink about how going to limbo is the worst thing in eternity. Instead of telling them the way out of Limbo. 

To introduce a way to get out of dreams, then say you can't do it because blah blah, then do it at the end to get out of everything? That's a covered up plot hole man...

Because going into limbo is a risk, a HUGE risk. Once in limbo, you're so deep into the dream, that you don't know you're dreaming-- you can't differentiate between the dream and reality. Cobb and Ariadne were in limbo for seconds, they could remember the truth. Saito was in there for decades-- obviously he slowly forgot and limbo became his reality. Cobb ran just as much of a risk when he went into limbo to save Saito, he damn near forgot why he was there.

It's because there's a logic to the time in the other levels of dreaming. If a minute goes by in the real world, then 10 minutes go by in the dream world, which is equal to an hour a level deeper in the hotel or a few hours a level deeper in the snow level. It's how everything from the avalanche to charging up the mountain, fighting  security, the hospital bed with the dad, getting Fischer out of limbo, blowing up the elevator, setting up all the charges and blowing up the fortress happened in the time it took for the van to hit the water.
The problem is, limbo is a free state whose timeline is not as proportional to the other dreams or reality. 10 minutes in the snow level isn't an hour in limbo, it's more like years. The risk is that even though maybe an hour or two goes by in reality, you'll have spent decades and maybe centuries down there losing all sense of reality, and when you come back to the real world, you'll be brain dead or insane.

Saito died from the gunshot in the first level. Maybe 5 or 10 minutes before Cobb drowned in the van. That difference was decades in limbo. Long enough for Saito to forget there was a world to come back to.

 

[mronegative]

Originally Posted by jamminbyalias

Originally Posted by JZero23

Originally Posted by jamminbyalias

Originally Posted by JZero23

Can someone explain the reason why being in Limbo is so bad? Once you're down there, you just have to kill yourself then you are back to your normal self. Dude and his wife put their heads on the train tracks. The girl and the business guy both jumped off the building and woke up in level 3. He found the Japanese dude and they both shot themselves with the gun on the table.

So what's so bad about being in "limbo"? Too many plot holes in this movie.

It was a great movie, but it seemed like they wrote it as they went along, instead of thinking things through. If you can't die in a dream within a dream because you will be in limbo, but then if you die in limbo you are sent back, then what is there to worry about?

You may be able to kill yourself and get back to "reality"--but when you're stuck in limbo, you're so deep into the dream you may never realize you're dreaming-- you're lost for eternity. Saito and Mal could have easily been stuck in limbo forever (while their brain in 'reality' turned into mush) if Cobb didn't save them.

I don't agree that there are plot holes in the movie-- everything seemed well thought out and if you are questioning certain things in the movie-- they were most likely included (or not included) purposely for a reason (either to spark dialogue, theories, or whatever else with the film). Hell, Chris Nolan has been working on this movie for the past 10 years.

I have read in other forums that in all the 'reality scenes', Cobb is not wearing a wedding ring, and in all the 'dream sequences' he is. Someone has mentioned that you can clearly see Dom's ring finger both on the plane before going into the dream and after the inception when he awakes on the plane-- and in both scenes he is ring-less. But it is clear he has the ring on during the 'inception dream sequences'. This is proof enough for me that he was not dreaming at the end of the film. Why else would Nolan include a detail like that?

Damn some people are really reaching with their theories, not particularly on this board, but in general from what I have read in other forums.

When Ariadne and Cobb go back to get Mal and Fisher, they knew very well that a) they were in limbo and b) the only way out was to die. So Cobb knew how to get out of limbo since he's been there before and got out, correct? So when Saito got shot in dream 1, why not tell him to go to limbo and die, and then come back to them in tip top shape? Instead he made such a big stink about how going to limbo is the worst thing in eternity. Instead of telling them the way out of Limbo. 

To introduce a way to get out of dreams, then say you can't do it because blah blah, then do it at the end to get out of everything? That's a covered up plot hole man...

Because going into limbo is a risk, a HUGE risk. Once in limbo, you're so deep into the dream, that you don't know you're dreaming-- you can't differentiate between the dream and reality. Cobb and Ariadne were in limbo for seconds, they could remember the truth. Saito was in there for decades-- obviously he slowly forgot and limbo became his reality. Cobb ran just as much of a risk when he went into limbo to save Saito, he damn near forgot why he was there.

It's because there's a logic to the time in the other levels of dreaming. If a minute goes by in the real world, then 10 minutes go by in the dream world, which is equal to an hour a level deeper in the hotel or a few hours a level deeper in the snow level. It's how everything from the avalanche to charging up the mountain, fighting  security, the hospital bed with the dad, getting Fischer out of limbo, blowing up the elevator, setting up all the charges and blowing up the fortress happened in the time it took for the van to hit the water.
The problem is, limbo is a free state whose timeline is not as proportional to the other dreams or reality. 10 minutes in the snow level isn't an hour in limbo, it's more like years. The risk is that even though maybe an hour or two goes by in reality, you'll have spent decades and maybe centuries down there losing all sense of reality, and when you come back to the real world, you'll be brain dead or insane.

Saito died from the gunshot in the first level. Maybe 5 or 10 minutes before Cobb drowned in the van. That difference was decades in limbo. Long enough for Saito to forget there was a world to come back to.

 

[ekon one]

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by TheHealthInspector

Originally Posted by UnbornSeed

Originally Posted by ekon one

Noskey wrote:

---

ekon one wrote:

---

**SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS OR GIVE THEIR OWN THEORY TO HELP SETTLE A DEBATE**:

How come Leo and Juno both were able to get into Limbo without killing themselves? I'm a pretty smart guy, but did I miss something? Currently I'm standing by the idea this is a major plot hole.

I think they went into Leo's dream together, not limbo. Then from there, Juno jumped off the building to get out of that dream, but Leo stayed behind to die with the collapsing building. Then he went into limbo alone.

But I'd need to see that whole scene again to be sure.

Nope, they (Juno and Leo) BOTH went into Limbo together as can be seen from the graphic above and it's stated in the movie. The contradiction and major plot hole is that Fisher had died and entered limbo. According to the facts presented in the movie he should have been in Limbo and not accesible to Leo and Juno unless they killed themselves in the third dream, which they did not. Leo and Juno SHOULD HAVE both entered a fourth dream through the "shared dream device", not Limbo.

UnbornSeed wrote:

---

ekon one wrote:

---

They plugged into a machine to get to the next dream. Only one in Limbo was Leo when he dies in the van underwater.

Keeping the discussion mature, I don't think you understood this part of the movie. It's clearly stated in the movie that Leo and Juno both entered Limbo after leaving the third dream, I'm backed up by the graphic posted as well. 

Again, I could in fact be the one who was mistaken and missed or misunderstood something in the movie, but I believe I haven't. I think this plot hole actually collapses the whole movie in on itself... 

. Anyone else have any other theories/information I may not have touched upon?

I watched it twice and I know for a fact that leo and juno hooked themselves to the machine to follow mal. whether that was limbo or not they didnt die so they couldn't have gone to limbo. From my grasp of the movie...leo dies in the van so he goes into limbo after saito.



i knew it, i kept reading comments all over the internet say that that they were in limbo but i kept questioning it because im pretty sure i remember seeing them (leo and ellen) connect themselves and fisher to another one of those machines in the third level, on top of that they revived fisher on the third level so he couldnt have been dead and if he were in limbo he'd probably be old(er) by the time they came to rescue him

i was positive that they came up with that 4th dream level on the fly, but i wasnt totally sure because people kept referring to it as limbo, thanks for pointing it out


They were in Limbo.  Fisher dies.  They say so explicitly.  They also explicitly refer to where they go as the limbo Leo and Mal shared.

We can say the characters themselves were mistaken in where they thought they were, but there's no reason to do so.  They don't hook Fisher to a machine to take him there, he's already there after Mal kills him.

Ellen DOES die in Limbo when she jumps off the building, this is her improvised kick, the same one that Mal attempts in the real world.  We're meant to believe that Leo himself wakes up from this kick and leaves Limbo but then dies before he can escape the van (we're not shown on which level he dies on) then returns to Limbo.

It could be a plot hole since Leo says you go to Limbo if you die, but you have to realize he never says this is the ONLY way to get to Limbo.  He just said it's a guaranteed way to go there.  I assume if you die in one dream then wake in Limbo the point is you're not aware that you're in Limbo.  They are able to kick themselves awake from it because they are fully aware that they are dreaming.  People who die are not aware that they're in Limbo because the dreams are so vivid and as far as they know they woke up from the prior dream that they had died in.


@Nako XL- I'm not quite sure I'm following you, could you elaborate more please? 
@Unborn Seed- Yeah, so pretty much you're agreeing with me- they should not have been in Limbo because they were hooked up to the machine. But how do you explain this major plot hole...


I'm pretty much trying to verify if this is indeed a plot hole or if I misunderstood something in the movie.

For my graphic to hold true, you have to hold the following as fact:

1. You can only reach Limbo through dying

2. Saito and Fisher did in fact die

3. Leo and Juno did not kill themselves in the third dream, but instead hooked themselves up to the "dream machine" and then entered into another dream.

So how was Juno able to retrieve Fisher when there paths should have diverged following the third dream?

 

[ekon one]

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by TheHealthInspector

Originally Posted by UnbornSeed

Originally Posted by ekon one

Noskey wrote:

---

ekon one wrote:

---

**SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS OR GIVE THEIR OWN THEORY TO HELP SETTLE A DEBATE**:

How come Leo and Juno both were able to get into Limbo without killing themselves? I'm a pretty smart guy, but did I miss something? Currently I'm standing by the idea this is a major plot hole.

I think they went into Leo's dream together, not limbo. Then from there, Juno jumped off the building to get out of that dream, but Leo stayed behind to die with the collapsing building. Then he went into limbo alone.

But I'd need to see that whole scene again to be sure.

Nope, they (Juno and Leo) BOTH went into Limbo together as can be seen from the graphic above and it's stated in the movie. The contradiction and major plot hole is that Fisher had died and entered limbo. According to the facts presented in the movie he should have been in Limbo and not accesible to Leo and Juno unless they killed themselves in the third dream, which they did not. Leo and Juno SHOULD HAVE both entered a fourth dream through the "shared dream device", not Limbo.

UnbornSeed wrote:

---

ekon one wrote:

---

They plugged into a machine to get to the next dream. Only one in Limbo was Leo when he dies in the van underwater.

Keeping the discussion mature, I don't think you understood this part of the movie. It's clearly stated in the movie that Leo and Juno both entered Limbo after leaving the third dream, I'm backed up by the graphic posted as well. 

Again, I could in fact be the one who was mistaken and missed or misunderstood something in the movie, but I believe I haven't. I think this plot hole actually collapses the whole movie in on itself... 

. Anyone else have any other theories/information I may not have touched upon?

I watched it twice and I know for a fact that leo and juno hooked themselves to the machine to follow mal. whether that was limbo or not they didnt die so they couldn't have gone to limbo. From my grasp of the movie...leo dies in the van so he goes into limbo after saito.



i knew it, i kept reading comments all over the internet say that that they were in limbo but i kept questioning it because im pretty sure i remember seeing them (leo and ellen) connect themselves and fisher to another one of those machines in the third level, on top of that they revived fisher on the third level so he couldnt have been dead and if he were in limbo he'd probably be old(er) by the time they came to rescue him

i was positive that they came up with that 4th dream level on the fly, but i wasnt totally sure because people kept referring to it as limbo, thanks for pointing it out


They were in Limbo.  Fisher dies.  They say so explicitly.  They also explicitly refer to where they go as the limbo Leo and Mal shared.

We can say the characters themselves were mistaken in where they thought they were, but there's no reason to do so.  They don't hook Fisher to a machine to take him there, he's already there after Mal kills him.

Ellen DOES die in Limbo when she jumps off the building, this is her improvised kick, the same one that Mal attempts in the real world.  We're meant to believe that Leo himself wakes up from this kick and leaves Limbo but then dies before he can escape the van (we're not shown on which level he dies on) then returns to Limbo.

It could be a plot hole since Leo says you go to Limbo if you die, but you have to realize he never says this is the ONLY way to get to Limbo.  He just said it's a guaranteed way to go there.  I assume if you die in one dream then wake in Limbo the point is you're not aware that you're in Limbo.  They are able to kick themselves awake from it because they are fully aware that they are dreaming.  People who die are not aware that they're in Limbo because the dreams are so vivid and as far as they know they woke up from the prior dream that they had died in.


@Nako XL- I'm not quite sure I'm following you, could you elaborate more please? 
@Unborn Seed- Yeah, so pretty much you're agreeing with me- they should not have been in Limbo because they were hooked up to the machine. But how do you explain this major plot hole...


I'm pretty much trying to verify if this is indeed a plot hole or if I misunderstood something in the movie.

For my graphic to hold true, you have to hold the following as fact:

1. You can only reach Limbo through dying

2. Saito and Fisher did in fact die

3. Leo and Juno did not kill themselves in the third dream, but instead hooked themselves up to the "dream machine" and then entered into another dream.

So how was Juno able to retrieve Fisher when there paths should have diverged following the third dream?

 

[miamin2]

Originally Posted by jamminbyalias

Originally Posted by JZero23

Can someone explain the reason why being in Limbo is so bad? Once you're down there, you just have to kill yourself then you are back to your normal self. Dude and his wife put their heads on the train tracks. The girl and the business guy both jumped off the building and woke up in level 3. He found the Japanese dude and they both shot themselves with the gun on the table.

So what's so bad about being in "limbo"? Too many plot holes in this movie.

It was a great movie, but it seemed like they wrote it as they went along, instead of thinking things through. If you can't die in a dream within a dream because you will be in limbo, but then if you die in limbo you are sent back, then what is there to worry about?

You may be able to kill yourself and get back to "reality"--but when you're stuck in limbo, you're so deep into the dream you may never realize you're dreaming-- you're lost for eternity. Saito and Mal could have easily been stuck in limbo forever (while their brain in 'reality' turned into mush) if Cobb didn't save them.

I don't agree that there are plot holes in the movie-- everything seemed well thought out and if you are questioning certain things in the movie-- they were most likely included (or not included) purposely for a reason (either to spark dialogue, theories, or whatever else with the film). Hell, Chris Nolan has been working on this movie for the past 10 years.

I have read in other forums that in all the 'reality scenes', Cobb is not wearing a wedding ring, and in all the 'dream sequences' he is. Someone has mentioned that you can clearly see Dom's ring finger both on the plane before going into the dream and after the inception when he awakes on the plane-- and in both scenes he is ring-less. But it is clear he has the ring on during the 'inception dream sequences'. This is proof enough for me that he was not dreaming at the end of the film. Why else would Nolan include a detail like that?

Damn some people are really reaching with their theories, not particularly on this board, but in general from what I have read in other forums.

I didn't notice that, but the reason I think he is dreaming is because when he finally gets back home n sees his kids for the first time in three years they look exactly the same as that last vision before he left, same size and wearing the same clothes if I'm not mistaken. That makes me believe he is actually dreaming because had it been reality they would surely be different. 
Maybe Nolan included enough evidence on both ends to support both arguments lol

 

[miamin2]

Originally Posted by jamminbyalias

Originally Posted by JZero23

Can someone explain the reason why being in Limbo is so bad? Once you're down there, you just have to kill yourself then you are back to your normal self. Dude and his wife put their heads on the train tracks. The girl and the business guy both jumped off the building and woke up in level 3. He found the Japanese dude and they both shot themselves with the gun on the table.

So what's so bad about being in "limbo"? Too many plot holes in this movie.

It was a great movie, but it seemed like they wrote it as they went along, instead of thinking things through. If you can't die in a dream within a dream because you will be in limbo, but then if you die in limbo you are sent back, then what is there to worry about?

You may be able to kill yourself and get back to "reality"--but when you're stuck in limbo, you're so deep into the dream you may never realize you're dreaming-- you're lost for eternity. Saito and Mal could have easily been stuck in limbo forever (while their brain in 'reality' turned into mush) if Cobb didn't save them.

I don't agree that there are plot holes in the movie-- everything seemed well thought out and if you are questioning certain things in the movie-- they were most likely included (or not included) purposely for a reason (either to spark dialogue, theories, or whatever else with the film). Hell, Chris Nolan has been working on this movie for the past 10 years.

I have read in other forums that in all the 'reality scenes', Cobb is not wearing a wedding ring, and in all the 'dream sequences' he is. Someone has mentioned that you can clearly see Dom's ring finger both on the plane before going into the dream and after the inception when he awakes on the plane-- and in both scenes he is ring-less. But it is clear he has the ring on during the 'inception dream sequences'. This is proof enough for me that he was not dreaming at the end of the film. Why else would Nolan include a detail like that?

Damn some people are really reaching with their theories, not particularly on this board, but in general from what I have read in other forums.

I didn't notice that, but the reason I think he is dreaming is because when he finally gets back home n sees his kids for the first time in three years they look exactly the same as that last vision before he left, same size and wearing the same clothes if I'm not mistaken. That makes me believe he is actually dreaming because had it been reality they would surely be different. 
Maybe Nolan included enough evidence on both ends to support both arguments lol

 

[unbornseed]

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by TheHealthInspector

Originally Posted by UnbornSeed

Originally Posted by ekon one

Noskey wrote:

---

ekon one wrote:

---

**SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS OR GIVE THEIR OWN THEORY TO HELP SETTLE A DEBATE**:

How come Leo and Juno both were able to get into Limbo without killing themselves? I'm a pretty smart guy, but did I miss something? Currently I'm standing by the idea this is a major plot hole.

I think they went into Leo's dream together, not limbo. Then from there, Juno jumped off the building to get out of that dream, but Leo stayed behind to die with the collapsing building. Then he went into limbo alone.

But I'd need to see that whole scene again to be sure.

Nope, they (Juno and Leo) BOTH went into Limbo together as can be seen from the graphic above and it's stated in the movie. The contradiction and major plot hole is that Fisher had died and entered limbo. According to the facts presented in the movie he should have been in Limbo and not accesible to Leo and Juno unless they killed themselves in the third dream, which they did not. Leo and Juno SHOULD HAVE both entered a fourth dream through the "shared dream device", not Limbo.

UnbornSeed wrote:

---

ekon one wrote:

---

They plugged into a machine to get to the next dream. Only one in Limbo was Leo when he dies in the van underwater.

Keeping the discussion mature, I don't think you understood this part of the movie. It's clearly stated in the movie that Leo and Juno both entered Limbo after leaving the third dream, I'm backed up by the graphic posted as well. 

Again, I could in fact be the one who was mistaken and missed or misunderstood something in the movie, but I believe I haven't. I think this plot hole actually collapses the whole movie in on itself... 

. Anyone else have any other theories/information I may not have touched upon?

I watched it twice and I know for a fact that leo and juno hooked themselves to the machine to follow mal. whether that was limbo or not they didnt die so they couldn't have gone to limbo. From my grasp of the movie...leo dies in the van so he goes into limbo after saito.



i knew it, i kept reading comments all over the internet say that that they were in limbo but i kept questioning it because im pretty sure i remember seeing them (leo and ellen) connect themselves and fisher to another one of those machines in the third level, on top of that they revived fisher on the third level so he couldnt have been dead and if he were in limbo he'd probably be old(er) by the time they came to rescue him

i was positive that they came up with that 4th dream level on the fly, but i wasnt totally sure because people kept referring to it as limbo, thanks for pointing it out


They were in Limbo.  Fisher dies.  They say so explicitly.  They also explicitly refer to where they go as the limbo Leo and Mal shared.

We can say the characters themselves were mistaken in where they thought they were, but there's no reason to do so.  They don't hook Fisher to a machine to take him there, he's already there after Mal kills him.

Ellen DOES die in Limbo when she jumps off the building, this is her improvised kick, the same one that Mal attempts in the real world.  We're meant to believe that Leo himself wakes up from this kick and leaves Limbo but then dies before he can escape the van (we're not shown on which level he dies on) then returns to Limbo.

It could be a plot hole since Leo says you go to Limbo if you die, but you have to realize he never says this is the ONLY way to get to Limbo.  He just said it's a guaranteed way to go there.  I assume if you die in one dream then wake in Limbo the point is you're not aware that you're in Limbo.  They are able to kick themselves awake from it because they are fully aware that they are dreaming.  People who die are not aware that they're in Limbo because the dreams are so vivid and as far as they know they woke up from the prior dream that they had died in.

They clearly hooked themselves into the machine. I thought the only way to get into limbo was to stay under way too long or die under a sedated state. Maybe the way I am grasping it is that they went into Fischers limbo but technically not into their own?  Maybe I'm reading too much into the fact they hooked themselves up?

 

[unbornseed]

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by TheHealthInspector

Originally Posted by UnbornSeed

Originally Posted by ekon one

Noskey wrote:

---

ekon one wrote:

---

**SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS OR GIVE THEIR OWN THEORY TO HELP SETTLE A DEBATE**:

How come Leo and Juno both were able to get into Limbo without killing themselves? I'm a pretty smart guy, but did I miss something? Currently I'm standing by the idea this is a major plot hole.

I think they went into Leo's dream together, not limbo. Then from there, Juno jumped off the building to get out of that dream, but Leo stayed behind to die with the collapsing building. Then he went into limbo alone.

But I'd need to see that whole scene again to be sure.

Nope, they (Juno and Leo) BOTH went into Limbo together as can be seen from the graphic above and it's stated in the movie. The contradiction and major plot hole is that Fisher had died and entered limbo. According to the facts presented in the movie he should have been in Limbo and not accesible to Leo and Juno unless they killed themselves in the third dream, which they did not. Leo and Juno SHOULD HAVE both entered a fourth dream through the "shared dream device", not Limbo.

UnbornSeed wrote:

---

ekon one wrote:

---

They plugged into a machine to get to the next dream. Only one in Limbo was Leo when he dies in the van underwater.

Keeping the discussion mature, I don't think you understood this part of the movie. It's clearly stated in the movie that Leo and Juno both entered Limbo after leaving the third dream, I'm backed up by the graphic posted as well. 

Again, I could in fact be the one who was mistaken and missed or misunderstood something in the movie, but I believe I haven't. I think this plot hole actually collapses the whole movie in on itself... 

. Anyone else have any other theories/information I may not have touched upon?

I watched it twice and I know for a fact that leo and juno hooked themselves to the machine to follow mal. whether that was limbo or not they didnt die so they couldn't have gone to limbo. From my grasp of the movie...leo dies in the van so he goes into limbo after saito.



i knew it, i kept reading comments all over the internet say that that they were in limbo but i kept questioning it because im pretty sure i remember seeing them (leo and ellen) connect themselves and fisher to another one of those machines in the third level, on top of that they revived fisher on the third level so he couldnt have been dead and if he were in limbo he'd probably be old(er) by the time they came to rescue him

i was positive that they came up with that 4th dream level on the fly, but i wasnt totally sure because people kept referring to it as limbo, thanks for pointing it out


They were in Limbo.  Fisher dies.  They say so explicitly.  They also explicitly refer to where they go as the limbo Leo and Mal shared.

We can say the characters themselves were mistaken in where they thought they were, but there's no reason to do so.  They don't hook Fisher to a machine to take him there, he's already there after Mal kills him.

Ellen DOES die in Limbo when she jumps off the building, this is her improvised kick, the same one that Mal attempts in the real world.  We're meant to believe that Leo himself wakes up from this kick and leaves Limbo but then dies before he can escape the van (we're not shown on which level he dies on) then returns to Limbo.

It could be a plot hole since Leo says you go to Limbo if you die, but you have to realize he never says this is the ONLY way to get to Limbo.  He just said it's a guaranteed way to go there.  I assume if you die in one dream then wake in Limbo the point is you're not aware that you're in Limbo.  They are able to kick themselves awake from it because they are fully aware that they are dreaming.  People who die are not aware that they're in Limbo because the dreams are so vivid and as far as they know they woke up from the prior dream that they had died in.

They clearly hooked themselves into the machine. I thought the only way to get into limbo was to stay under way too long or die under a sedated state. Maybe the way I am grasping it is that they went into Fischers limbo but technically not into their own?  Maybe I'm reading too much into the fact they hooked themselves up?

 

[thytkerjobs]

lol at "Juno"

 

[thytkerjobs]

lol at "Juno"

 

[iiceman83]

Originally Posted by swishasweets

Originally Posted by IICEMAN83

Cant believe no one figured out they inject themselves with dmt. This movie is based on true events

Is it really like this?

In a sense yes. To a point where you question our own reality. But i havnt heard of anyone being able to control being their enviroment like they do in the movie.

 

[iiceman83]

Originally Posted by swishasweets

Originally Posted by IICEMAN83

Cant believe no one figured out they inject themselves with dmt. This movie is based on true events

Is it really like this?

In a sense yes. To a point where you question our own reality. But i havnt heard of anyone being able to control being their enviroment like they do in the movie.

 

[jamminbyalias]

Here's a link with a list of theories. Pretty interesting.

http://www.firstshowing.n...houghts-oscar-buzz-more/

 

[jamminbyalias]

Here's a link with a list of theories. Pretty interesting.

http://www.firstshowing.n...houghts-oscar-buzz-more/

 

[noskey]

Originally Posted by ekon one



So how was Juno able to retrieve Fisher when there paths should have diverged following the third dream?

Who cares anymore

It doesnt take away from the movie. This argument is ridiculous, and I'm sure if it in fact a plot hole, it's an acceptable one seeing just how complex this movie is