STAY/GET BACK IN SHAPE VOL 3.0 -- A New Niketalk = A New Thread

[Ricky D]

Y’all got any programs to improve squat? I’m looking to improve after I finish Warrant Officer school. My max is 345 and that was almost a year ago. It sucks cause my max on bench is 315

 

[mplsdunk]

What worked for me was squatting every time I lifted. Your legs can take it once you get used to it.

 

[Ricky D]

I thought about doing that too. Squat everyday. I saw some videos of Mike Rashid doing it and the point was to hit your 1RM everyday and then do your normal routine. I didn’t know if that was safe for someone only using protein and creatine

 

[mplsdunk]

I wouldn’t do it to that intensity.

I’m gonna say it’s probably not safe for natty people.

 

[mplsdunk]

Now that I think about it I haven’t maxed out anything in a year or two.

 

[melo0115]

So, Friday morning I went to Gold's for the first time since March 2020. I've been posted at Anytime Fitness because I literally have the gym to myself every time I go.

The Gold's near my place has so much stuff. It was like a sensory overload when I walked in. Def, cycling both gyms from now on. It's one of the originals Gold's in San Antonio, but had a modern renovation.

There was a guy there doing body slams with a Golds Gym sand bag. While he had a Greatest Wrestling matches playlist perched up on the edge of the squatting platform.

 

[Tank Top Master]

I wouldn’t do it to that intensity.

I’m gonna say it’s probably not safe for natty people.

It’s definitely "safe" for natties. Your supplementation is also irrelevant.

Daily squatting just requires the ability to autoregulate your training, good technique/form, and the resolve to do something that won't be easy or comfortable.

(I’m a lifetime natty and have posted ITT about my experience with daily squatting before.)

 

[mplsdunk]

Nah bro, squatting daily is fine. I was talkning hitting your 1rm daily isn’t fine.

It’s asking for trouble and if you can hit it daily that isn’t your 1rm anyways.

Once you get into big weight a 1rm is borderline scary. There’s a lot to break.

 

[s-blaze]

Squatober got me right

 

[tokes99]

I thought about doing that too. Squat everyday. I saw some videos of Mike Rashid doing it and the point was to hit your 1RM everyday and then do your normal routine. I didn’t know if that was safe for someone only using protein and creatine

i’ve seen a few of those vids from him & i don’t think it was to hit your max but just to build up to an arbitrary ‘heavy’ squat…which is doable if done sensibly. especially for someone who is experienced and is pretty in tune with their lifts, it’s probably a feasible way to challenge themselves in terms of focus & technique.

similarly, i also think someone who is new to lifting but an athlete or from an athletic background might be able to pull it off because they would benefit from the exposure & reps but be somewhat limited by the unfamiliarity of the movement not really allowing them to use as heavy weight as they might actually be capable of.

other than the challenge or actually acclimating/getting used to the movement, not sure that squatting heavy daily is a great return on the spectrum of stimulus to output equation, even tho a compound lift like the squat is hitting the largest muscle groups on the body the fatigue of squatting with such frequency would likely have diminishing returns

It’s definitely "safe" for natties. Your supplementation is also irrelevant.

Daily squatting just requires the ability to autoregulate your training, good technique/form, and the resolve to do something that won't be easy or comfortable.

(I’m a lifetime natty and have posted ITT about my experience with daily squatting before.)

squatting daily with significant weight, especially for someone isn’t an advanced/experience, probably wouldn’t be the sensible approach…it isn’t so much that it would inherently be unsafe for someone who was ‘au naturel,’ rather someone who was enhanced would both have more capacity to actually perform & recover faster.

for a natural, even if doing so sub-maximally, it wouldn’t be the weight of squatting daily but rather the accumulation of fatigue over time; also for an enhanced person i would think their central nervous system would likely get taxed before their actual physical capacity did?

it can definitely be done if one can control most of those variables, is aware of their body & limitations, and doesn’t have much in the way of other demanding activity/sport that would be competing for energy & focus. a person would just have to be up for the challenge of squatting daily more than anything else as a fitness goal to do rather than it being a good way to actually train.

Nah bro, squatting daily is fine. I was talkning hitting your 1rm daily isn’t fine.

It’s asking for trouble and if you can hit it daily that isn’t your 1rm anyways.

Once you get into big weight a 1rm is borderline scary. There’s a lot to break.

yea, i think doing anything with that much effort daily would eventually wear down most everyone…it was one of the mistakes i was making when i started, i didn’t really understand ‘programming’ ( still don’t if i’m honest). i thought the point was to build up to lifting the most i could every time in the gym, which was kinda auto regulating because there’d be days where i just felt too gassed to even attempt a 1 rep max even though i wasn’t sore and felt good generally.

to the extent i could consistently approach/touch a max in a lift was because i am still new to lifting and my technique is perhaps more the limiting factor than actual capacity

 

[Tank Top Master]

Nah bro, squatting daily is fine. I was talkning hitting your 1rm daily isn’t fine.

It’s asking for trouble and if you can hit it daily that isn’t your 1rm anyways.

Once you get into big weight a 1rm is borderline scary. There’s a lot to break.

The principle behind the Bulgarian Method is working up to the heaviest you can squat that day, i.e. a 1RM for that day, and the Bulgarian Method isn't the only way to approach daily squatting.

Your true 1RM will vary from day to day and increase or decrease over time; any PLer knows this. Saying "if you can hit it daily that isn’t your 1rm anyways" is disingenuous since that number is not concrete and always in flux anyways.

In any case, there's no need to go back and forth with you on this any further.

I've actually done this (several times including right now) and have posted my results in here (first run was back in 201. I'm pretty sure the weights I was hitting were considered "big" but I'll let dudes cook.

 

[Tank Top Master]

squatting daily with significant weight, especially for someone isn’t an advanced/experience, probably wouldn’t be the sensible approach…it isn’t so much that it would inherently be unsafe for someone who was ‘au naturel,’ rather someone who was enhanced would both have more capacity to actually perform & recover faster.

for a natural, even if doing so sub-maximally, it wouldn’t be the weight of squatting daily but rather the accumulation of fatigue over time; also for an enhanced person i would think their central nervous system would likely get taxed before their actual physical capacity did?

it can definitely be done if one can control most of those variables, is aware of their body & limitations, and doesn’t have much in the way of other demanding activity/sport that would be competing for energy & focus. a person would just have to be up for the challenge of squatting daily more than anything else as a fitness goal to do rather than it being a good way to actually train.

Respectfully, you are incorrect on just about everything you quoted to me.

1) Noobs don't have the ability to rapidly increase their neuromuscular coordination or the experience with proper form/technique to pull off squatting to max daily. This is the population that benefits the least from daily squatting and the most likely group to wind up injured.

It even says in multiple program write-ups that this shouldn't be attempted by anyone without extensive time under the bar (i.e. not a noob) and not already squatting roughly twice their bodyweight for a single (possibly a novice but more than likely not).

2) You're also incorrect about the steroids thing as well. Your nevous system (CNS) and joints take far more of a beating than your muscle tissues on this program. There's a reason enhanced BBers report so many connective tissue injuries - their muscles recovered faster but their tendons/ligaments/joints did not recover fast enough.

3) If you're working sets are singles then accumulated fatigue is also not an issue. 95% of the time you won't even feel like you squatted the day before if you do this program properly, and I don't normally stretch or foam roll.

Again, have you ever squatted daily or was this all conjecture based on what you assume the human body is capable of?

I was working 7 days a week (roughly 60 hours/wk) and daily squatting in '18. That finally got cut down to 6 days a week for maybe 50 hours and I was still doing two-a-days multiple times a week. Squatted daily while in undergrad flight training in '21.

My intraworkout is in the freezer so Imma take my 50 lb gym bag and my 4 pairs of shoes and go squat again today.

Y'all take it easy.

 

[Ricky D]

These damn pics that Tank Top Master posts in his paragraphs got we weak

 

[tokes99]

Respectfully, you are incorrect on just about everything you quoted to me.

1) Noobs don't have the ability to rapidly increase their neuromuscular coordination or the experience with proper form/technique to pull off squatting to max daily. This is the population that benefits the least from daily squatting and the most likely group to wind up injured.

It even says in multiple program write-ups that this shouldn't be attempted by anyone without extensive time under the bar (i.e. not a noob) and not already squatting roughly twice their bodyweight for a single (possibly a novice but more than likely not).

2) You're also incorrect about the steroids thing as well. Your nevous system (CNS) and joints take far more of a beating than your muscle tissues on this program. There's a reason enhanced BBers report so many connective tissue injuries - their muscles recovered faster but their tendons/ligaments/joints did not recover fast enough.

3) If you're working sets are singles then accumulated fatigue is also not an issue. 95% of the time you won't even feel like you squatted the day before if you do this program properly, and I don't normally stretch or foam roll.

Again, have you ever squatted daily or was this all conjecture based on what you assume the human body is capable of?

I was working 7 days a week (roughly 60 hours/wk) and daily squatting in '18. That finally got cut down to 6 days a week for maybe 50 hours and I was still doing two-a-days multiple times a week. Squatted daily while in undergrad flight training in '21.

My intraworkout is in the freezer so Imma take my 50 lb gym bag and my 4 pairs of shoes and go squat again today.

Y'all take it easy.

i don’t think we actually have that big of a disagreement on your 1sr 2 points:

1. my thought(s), are based on my own experience and information i’ve come across so it could be both biased & specific to me, but i think someone who had/has a background in athletics but was new to lifting they might benefit from squatting heavy daily (they be getting more reps in, more opportunity to learn quite quickly) because their max as a new lifter would likely be well under their actual capable max, if that makes sense

2. i mentioned that the cns would likely fail before the muscles, tho the point you make about the connective tissues & joints is added information that makes sense as well

3. it isn’t so much that doing daily max squats isn’t theoretically possible, but that is probably isn’t the best way to train for strength for most people…especially for an indefinite period of time, given the pros & cons. i have read/seen specific critiquing of this method of both squatting heavy daily & generally building up to hit a max rep every session

while some of it may be conjecture, because i don’t have much experience lifting, being that i haven’t been doing this even a full year, initially i was attempting max lifts on both deadlifts & squats every time i would lift. i was doing this 3x a week, and while i didn’t find this to be crushing, doing more (i would have some light activity—basketball, calisthenics, gymnastics, & plyometrics on 1-2 of the other remaining days) definitely would definitely had me gassed and i definitely try to source information trying to be as informed about how to train in order to get results

 

[Tank Top Master]

i don’t think we actually have that big of a disagreement on your 1sr 2 points:

1. my thought(s), are based on my own experience and information i’ve come across so it could be both biased & specific to me, but i think someone who had/has a background in athletics but was new to lifting they might benefit from squatting heavy daily (they be getting more reps in, more opportunity to learn quite quickly) because their max as a new lifter would likely be well under their actual capable max, if that makes sense

2. i mentioned that the cns would likely fail before the muscles, tho the point you make about the connective tissues & joints is added information that makes sense as well

3. it isn’t so much that doing daily max squats isn’t theoretically possible, but that is probably isn’t the best way to train for strength for most people…especially for an indefinite period of time, given the pros & cons. i have read/seen specific critiquing of this method of both squatting heavy daily & generally building up to hit a max rep every session

while some of it may be conjecture, because i don’t have much experience lifting, being that i haven’t been doing this even a full year, initially i was attempting max lifts on both deadlifts & squats every time i would lift. i was doing this 3x a week, and while i didn’t find this to be crushing, doing more (i would have some light activity—basketball, calisthenics, gymnastics, & plyometrics on 1-2 of the other remaining days) definitely would definitely had me gassed and i definitely try to source information trying to be as informed about how to train in order to get results

No offense breh but this is kinda what I mean. Folks that haven't been under the bar long enough to know are in here giving hot takes on programs they haven't really ran.

Noobs don't have technical proficiency and lack experience. Squatting daily is a bad idea for them because they don't know how to autoregulate, their form is not A1, and they don't know how to squat with good form while fatigued.

Being relatively untrained, their CNS can take far less of a beating than a seasoned lifter. Noobs also gain muscle and strength faster than more advanced lifters. The benefit of daily squatting isn't new muscle growth, it's increased neuromuscular coordination and technical proficiency from increased frequency [practice]. There is absolutely no reason for new lifters to squat daily.

Again, if you haven't actually done this training method, there is no point in discussing it with me. I have, multiple times, including right now (I took 2 off days in February). If you want, download The Bulgarian Method e-book by Omar and Greg, read it, and then run it for at least 12 weeks so we can both discuss it from a place of experience.

I'll agree that it prolly isn't the best way to train for strength for "most people", but "most people" are also weak, (at least in America) fat/out of shape, and lack the gym time and/or resolve to make this method of training successful. I'd say the same for my 3 hour Upper/Lower sessions 6x a week or my PPL splits that do the same.

You low-key seem kinda new to this thread but there are levels to this lifting thing. Only Josh Beruseruku Desu , Lord m boiz and soundview are really ****ing with my numbers on here.

I only take strength training advice from people that are stronger than myself, just like I don't take financial advice from people that are poorer than myself. Imagine pulling up in a nice car, you got money in the bank, no debt and a bum comes up to you and starts spitting game. (I don't take dieting advice from people fatter than I am either.)

Oh well. No point in tryna change minds here. Either way, be safe and get gains out there.


Fred.

 

[mplsdunk]

We were using different “1rm”.

It’s all good man I get what you’re saying now.

I was thinking go for a pr everyday. I’m like how is that possible?

 

[Tank Top Master]

We were using different “1rm”.

It’s all good man I get what you’re saying now.

I was thinking go for a pr everyday. I’m like how is that possible?

No, we're actually not.

There were days I'd hit a all time personal best one day and come and beat that for a 5 or 10 pound PR the next.

If you squat 'daily' (5+ times a week), the number that you consider your 1RM will flux daily/weekly. Some days your body will be on and some days it will be off, regardless of how you feel mentally (not neurally).

It's "possible" because you're traded per-session volume for frequency and intensity.

Most folks won't get this since they're not actually trying to hit PRs every session as intermediate/advanced lifters.

Fred.

 

[tokes99]

No offense breh but this is kinda what I mean. Folks that haven't been under the bar long enough to know are in here giving hot takes on programs they haven't really ran.

Noobs don't have technical proficiency and lack experience. Squatting daily is a bad idea for them because they don't know how to autoregulate, their form is not A1, and they don't know how to squat with good form while fatigued.

Being relatively untrained, their CNS can take far less of a beating than a seasoned lifter. Noobs also gain muscle and strength faster than more advanced lifters. The benefit of daily squatting isn't new muscle growth, it's increased neuromuscular coordination and technical proficiency from increased frequency [practice]. There is absolutely no reason for new lifters to squat daily.

Again, if you haven't actually done this training method, there is no point in discussing it with me. I have, multiple times, including right now (I took 2 off days in February). If you want, download The Bulgarian Method e-book by Omar and Greg, read it, and then run it for at least 12 weeks so we can both discuss it from a place of experience.

I'll agree that it prolly isn't the best way to train for strength for "most people", but "most people" are also weak, (at least in America) fat/out of shape, and lack the gym time and/or resolve to make this method of training successful. I'd say the same for my 3 hour Upper/Lower sessions 6x a week or my PPL splits that do the same.

You low-key seem kinda new to this thread but there are levels to this lifting thing. Only Josh Beruseruku Desu , Lord m boiz and soundview are really ****ing with my numbers on here.

I only take strength training advice from people that are stronger than myself, just like I don't take financial advice from people that are poorer than myself. Imagine pulling up in a nice car, you got money in the bank, no debt and a bum comes up to you and starts spitting game. (I don't take dieting advice from people fatter than I am either.)

Oh well. No point in tryna change minds here. Either way, be safe and get gains out there.


Fred.

granted, i’m new to this but is it really a hot take to say most people, even those that are advanced lifters, probably shouldn’t be on to squatting to their max daily? i really only started lifting, specifically deadlifts & squats, to improve my ankle mobility & possibly improving general strength for jumping, so i’m not really that in tune with all the various programming. honestly not that all that married to any approach; if it can get me the desired result(s) without having to overtrain/do crazy intensity, it’s a win to me

so i guess the question is why would some run this sort of program? especially if similar results could be achieved with less intensity? not a rhetorical question, genuinely interested

We were using different “1rm”.

It’s all good man I get what you’re saying now.

I was thinking go for a pr everyday. I’m like how is that possible?

when i first started with deadlifting & squats, just about every session for the 1st few months i was able to add weight to my max for both lifts…on the one hand it might be fair to say that the preceding efforts may not have truly been the most i was capable of because i was still getting comfortable with the movement but it was a personal best at the time

 

[sneeker]

done with my weights training this week. I'll start with my swim tomorrow. damn, I'd expect that I will be gassed out since it's been more than 2 years since my last one.

 

[Tank Top Master]

so i guess the question is why would some run this sort of program? especially if similar results could be achieved with less intensity? not a rhetorical question, genuinely interested

Not sure why you're so hung up on higher intensity when it's only one variable.

To squat daily your average intensity goes up to a degree, and your frequency will probably double or triple, but your volume per session probably decreases by half or more. Some people handle volume better, some people can handle higher frequency.

The higher your numbers get, the harder it is to add to those poundages, as someone else alluded to a few pages ago

What are these programs/splits you've mentioned that allow advanced folks to achieve similar results at lower intensities?
The only other program I know that boasts similar results is Smolov for squats, and I'd hardly say that the intensities are lighter on that.

As I mentioned in my write up ITT I added 120 pounds to my 1RM in 11 weeks, and actually hit +135 pound single in a gym meet later that week but the depth was probably only just at parallel.

Anyways, it doesn't really matter what I think. I know the uses of this type of programming and folks far stronger than I am have ran it successfully for longer than I have, so I'll defer to them and use my own experience to judge.

There's also more than one way to skin a cat.

If your goals aren't of a powerlifting nature there's no need to squat that often.


Fred.

 

[Tank Top Master]

Novel post/rant-

Last squat erryday update:

Started on 6 Aug. Last day will be Saturday.

Squat 1RM went from a grindy 390 to a slow 510 (wrapped). That's 120 lbs. in 11 weeks, with a lifetime pr of 50#.

Pendlay Row 1RM went up by 25 lbs. Vertical pulling (chin-ups/pull-ups) seems to have decreased.

Bench has only gone up 20 lbs. in 8 weeks. I've been doing Smolov Jr since the beginning of the month, will post results after this week and some off days.

Deadlift actually regressed by about 15 lbs., probably since the frequency, intensity, and volume all decreased compared to my normal training programs. Also doesn't help that the lower back and quads were never 100% recovered when I pulled. Overhead press is likely down as well (haven't been training it seriously).

Final thoughts:
1) Don't do this if you are not an accomplished squatter/have suspect form. The frequency will hone good form but will wreck you if your form is bad.

2) Do not do this if you are not used to high frequency training. If you don't already squat/deadlift religiously 3+ times a week, I would not recommend this.

Warning: Heavy weights beat you up and heavy training often tends to lead to overuse injuries. I would not recommend this if you have a physically demanding job or tend to get injured often.

3) Most of the gains were neural. I did put on some size, mostly in the upper legs and chest, but this program won't turn you into the Hulk. Regular hypertrophy splits are far superior for size.

4) Program is relatively imbalanced and I think the lifts show this. Idk how you could do enough hamstring work to balance a quad-dominant squat without frying the lower back. The more benching you do, the more back and rear delt work you need to maintain shoulder health and balance. I feel like eventually you'd need to break this up into 2 sessions: 1 for squat and bench and 1 for rows/chins/pulldowns, face pulls, hamstring work, biceps, core, etc.

5) This program is not the end all be all, especially for powerlifting, but it can be used to bring up a lagging lift relatively quickly.

5a) Of all the programs I have personally run, high volume PPLs, the Arnold Split (Chest/Back; Arms/Delts; Legs twice a week), and PHAT (with extra volume) are far superior for hypertrophy. A bro split could probably produce the same size gains, provided you have enough volume in it and actually do the leg day. Even with back-off sets and lifting 6, 7 days a week, there just simply isn't enough volume to drive large amounts of hypertrophy.

5b) Of the programs I have personally run for strength gains, only 5/3/1 Who Was CNS came close to this. I won't include peaking programs like Smolov/Jr., as they are not designed to be ran indefinitely (this theoretically could be). Only beginner full body LP programs like SS and SL 5x5 would have you progressing faster, but if you can still make linear gains this program is not for you yet anyway.

6) Seems like DL, Row, and Bench improve most on moderate frequency (2x per week for DL; 2-3x max for Bench). SQ seems to lag at only 1x/week and improves decently @ 2x. Anything more than 3x and it takes off like a rocket. YMMV.


tl;dr: Program works but is not ideal for aesthetics or powerlifting. Not sure what percentage of the largely neural gains will diminish once frequency decreases. If you do this, recommend following up with a hypertrophy program to transmute as much of the strength gains into size gains.

Fred.

 

[mplsdunk]

No, we're actually not.

There were days I'd hit a all time personal best one day and come and beat that for a 5 or 10 pound PR the next.

If you squat 'daily' (5+ times a week), the number that you consider your 1RM will flux daily/weekly. Some days your body will be on and some days it will be off, regardless of how you feel mentally (not neurally).

It's "possible" because you're traded per-session volume for frequency and intensity.

Most folks won't get this since they're not actually trying to hit PRs every session as intermediate/advanced lifters.

Fred.

I never trained rpe much because I just liked having xxx in my head for xx times to lift it.

I feel like I wouldn’t lift hard enough without pre established goals before I went into it. Like sometimes something feels heavy af but then you can slap on 150 more pounds and get that too.

You said you trade volume for intensity, this wasn’t when you were doing crazy volume was it? I remember you hitting like 15x15 or something crazy before too.

 

[Tank Top Master]

I never trained rpe much because I just liked having xxx in my head for xx times to lift it.

I feel like I wouldn’t lift hard enough without pre established goals before I went into it. Like sometimes something feels heavy af but then you can slap on 150 more pounds and get that too.

You said you trade volume for intensity, this wasn’t when you were doing crazy volume was it? I remember you hitting like 15x15 or something crazy before too.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about mane.

The Bulgarian Method isn't about RPE or fixed reps and sets, because all of the heavier singles will be at an RPE of 9.5 or 10. (You could perhaps add some weight but could not complete any more reps).

At the point when you don't know if you'll get the next single rep or not, you're actually supposed to either stop and move on the next exercise, pack it up and go home, or move on to lighter back-off sets (doubles and triples), depending how you're feeling that day.


I don't know what you mean by doing crazy volume either. I have never done 15 x15 nor would I ever endorse that because that rep scheme is not conducive to powerlifting. IMO GVT at 10x10 is bad enough; the weights required to complete 15x15 must be paltry.

Volume is mathematically reduced because if you do 8-12 singles (just as example) after warming up, you did 8-12 reps - total. Maybe you felt good and did 3x2 for back-off work. That's 14-18 reps for your whole workout for legs, unless you do an accessory exercise.

How many reps does an average leg day have? 50? 100? What about compared to GVT? Smolov? And remember, since you're increasing the weight every single, some of those sets of 1 were extremely light in relation to your 1RM. A 3x5 or 5x5 at 85% is actually more intense, on average per rep.


Fred.

 

[mplsdunk]

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about mane.

The Bulgarian Method isn't about RPE or fixed reps and sets, because all of the heavier singles will be at an RPE of 9.5 or 10. (You could perhaps add some weight but could not complete any more reps).

At the point when you don't know if you'll get the next single rep or not, you're actually supposed to either stop and move on the next exercise, pack it up and go home, or move on to lighter back-off sets (doubles and triples), depending how you're feeling that day.


I don't know what you mean by doing crazy volume either. I have never done 15 x15 nor would I ever endorse that because that rep scheme is not conducive to powerlifting. IMO GVT at 10x10 is bad enough; the weights required to complete 15x15 must be paltry.

Volume is mathematically reduced because if you do 8-12 singles (just as example) after warming up, you did 8-12 reps - total. Maybe you felt good and did 3x2 for back-off work. That's 14-18 reps for your whole workout for legs, unless you do an accessory exercise.

How many reps does an average leg day have? 50? 100? What about compared to GVT? Smolov? And remember, since you're increasing the weight every single, some of those sets of 1 were extremely light in relation to your 1RM. A 3x5 or 5x5 at 85% is actually more intense, on average per rep.


Fred.

I swear it was you doing some a crazy amount of volume and heavy too but not GVT.

I’m just gonna look up the program, I’m trying to compare it to something but I can’t in my mind.

 

[mplsdunk]

tokes99 idk how long you’ve been lifting but that’s basically the concept of StrongLifts 5x5. You up the weight every session. It will get you hella gains your first year or two.