****The Everything LaVar Ball Thread****

[VARNELL HILL]

The thing w/ LiAngelo is that there's nothing he does on an elite level. 

He's a 3 star recruit for a reason. He might be the most famous 3 star recruit ever. 

It's not impossible but there's a TREMENDOUS amount of improvements he'd have to make before even talking about the NBA after 4 years.

Kris Jenkins can shoot from anywhere on the floor...is 6'6...and has a game winning shot for the national championship on his resume...and he's a longshot to make the NBA. 

 

[wavycrocket]

The thing w/ LiAngelo is that there's nothing he does on an elite level. 

He's a 3 star recruit for a reason. He might be the most famous 3 star recruit ever. 

It's not impossible but there's a TREMENDOUS amount of improvements he'd have to make before even be talking about the NBA.

Kris Jenkins can shoot from anywhere on the floor...is 6'6...and has a game winning shot for the national championship on his resume...and he's a longshot to make the NBA. 

Exactly.

And look at the work Kris Jenkins had to do just to get his body right and be productive . Not only that....Kris Jenkins was a better prospect coming out than Gelo.

Gelo is a long shot to make the NBA. Not saying he can't have a nice college career and play pro ball somewhere. But the idea of him having an immediate NBA Future is absurd.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The thing w/ LiAngelo is that there's nothing he does on an elite level. 

He's a 3 star recruit for a reason. He might be the most famous 3 star recruit ever. 

It's not impossible but there's a TREMENDOUS amount of improvements he'd have to make before even be talking about the NBA.

Kris Jenkins can shoot from anywhere on the floor...is 6'6...and has a game winning shot for the national championship on his resume...and he's a longshot to make the NBA. 

Exactly.

And look at the work Kris Jenkins had to do just to get his body right and be productive . Not only that....Kris Jenkins was a better prospect coming out than Gelo.

Gelo is a long shot to make the NBA. Not saying he can't have a nice college career and play pro ball somewhere. But the idea of him having an immediate NBA Future is absurd.

I am not making the argument that he is lock for the NBA. I am saying his jumper might keep the conversation alive. He still needs a **** ton of work.

If he couldn't shoot the ball like he does, the conversation would be completely over.

His road to the NBA might end up being a Seth Curry type of situation.

 

[-Red-]

Making it seem like dudes supporting Lavar is giving him a blanket cosign, or making it seem like they support him blindly because he is bringing about some revolution is a reach

And to make him seem like LaVar Ball is the embodiment of one of the worst aspects of capitalism in regards to how it effects the black community is a bigger reach.

Indulging some like Umar Johnson with his school is far more dangerous than indulging LaVar Ball and some expensive sneakers

But dudes are giving LaVar a blanket cosign. And dudes are touting this as some type of revolution. I don't have the time, energy, or desire to look back throughout this 95-page thread and find the quotes that demonstrate this (I have no clue how so many of y'all do this ), but there are plenty of them in here fam.

I don't know about what I'm "making LaVar Ball seem like." I pointed out a dynamic I see manifesting in this situation as being emblematic of a wider issue that ultimately helps legitimize a system that is viciously unjust and that hurts poor black folks more than anyone. I'm not sure about the relevance of Umar Johnson here (although I do agree with you about him), as this is the LaVar Ball thread...

 

[-Red-]

 

as opposed to the status quo?


either way wealth is going into the hands of a few only, so might as well be black hands

You don't see how this mentality hurts black folks in the long run?


"Since these few black folks are winning, it's like we're all winning!" This has been the okie-doke for the last 50 years. When white folks peddle it, black folks are generally able to call it out for the ******** that it is. But when black folks peddle it to promote their own interests, many seem to buy into it in the name of racial solidarity with no discernible benefit to them (see: many posters in this thread).


So no, not "as opposed to the status quo." As opposed to a level of discernment that calls into question and challenges the exploitation and inequality inherent to capitalism more generally and the ways that appeals to racial solidarity that benefit the few at the continued expense of the many often undermine this level of critical analysis.

but what is the alternative?

if its harmful when whites prop up blacks, harmful when blacks prop themselves up, then what is the alternative?

if the aim is to rail against capitialism itself i support it

but when it comes down to living within the system of capitaliism whats worse? putting money in the hands of a white conglomerate or a black start up?

criticizing capitalism itself is one thing, but do it when a black man is benefitting also is harmful imo

i mean where is the sneaker i can buy that we all get paid off of?

on some level everyone is only out for themselves, but as a collective the more spaces we occupy over the long run we will benefit even if not individually

I wouldn't people rather have spend their money with Nike or any other shoe company. My main point is just to point out the problem with viewing support of LaVar Ball and BBB as some sort of radical/"woke"/revolutionary social, economic, and/or racial stand, as some are making it out to be.

 

[cj003]

The thing w/ LiAngelo is that there's nothing he does on an elite level. 

He's a 3 star recruit for a reason. He might be the most famous 3 star recruit ever. 

It's not impossible but there's a TREMENDOUS amount of improvements he'd have to make before even be talking about the NBA.

Kris Jenkins can shoot from anywhere on the floor...is 6'6...and has a game winning shot for the national championship on his resume...and he's a longshot to make the NBA. 

Exactly.

And look at the work Kris Jenkins had to do just to get his body right and be productive . Not only that....Kris Jenkins was a better prospect coming out than Gelo.

Gelo is a long shot to make the NBA. Not saying he can't have a nice college career and play pro ball somewhere. But the idea of him having an immediate NBA Future is absurd.

I am not making the argument that he is lock for the NBA. I am saying his jumper might keep the conversation alive. He still needs a **** ton of work.

If he couldn't shoot the ball like he does, the conversation would be completely over.

His road to the NBA might end up being a Seth Curry type of situation.

He shot 36% from 3 in high school. The narrative that he's a good shooter is false. Just b/c you take a bunch of shots and score a bunch of points doesn't mean you're a great shooter.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The thing w/ LiAngelo is that there's nothing he does on an elite level. 

He's a 3 star recruit for a reason. He might be the most famous 3 star recruit ever. 

It's not impossible but there's a TREMENDOUS amount of improvements he'd have to make before even be talking about the NBA.

Kris Jenkins can shoot from anywhere on the floor...is 6'6...and has a game winning shot for the national championship on his resume...and he's a longshot to make the NBA. 

Exactly.

And look at the work Kris Jenkins had to do just to get his body right and be productive . Not only that....Kris Jenkins was a better prospect coming out than Gelo.

Gelo is a long shot to make the NBA. Not saying he can't have a nice college career and play pro ball somewhere. But the idea of him having an immediate NBA Future is absurd.

I am not making the argument that he is lock for the NBA. I am saying his jumper might keep the conversation alive. He still needs a **** ton of work.

If he couldn't shoot the ball like he does, the conversation would be completely over.

His road to the NBA might end up being a Seth Curry type of situation.

He shot 36% from 3 in high school. The narrative that he's a good shooter is false. Just b/c you take a bunch of shots and score a bunch of points doesn't mean you're a great shooter.

He puts up a lot of crappy shots. Even off balances ones. The dudes jumper is legit, his shot selection is not.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Making it seem like dudes supporting Lavar is giving him a blanket cosign, or making it seem like they support him blindly because he is bringing about some revolution is a reach

And to make him seem like LaVar Ball is the embodiment of one of the worst aspects of capitalism in regards to how it effects the black community is a bigger reach.

Indulging some like Umar Johnson with his school is far more dangerous than indulging LaVar Ball and some expensive sneakers

But dudes are giving LaVar a blanket cosign. And dudes are touting this as some type of revolution. I don't have the time, energy, or desire to look back throughout this 95-page thread and find the quotes that demonstrate this (I have no clue how so many of y'all do this ), but there are plenty of them in here fam.

I don't know about what I'm "making LaVar Ball seem like." I pointed out a dynamic I see manifesting in this situation as being emblematic of a wider issue that ultimately helps legitimize a system that is viciously unjust and that hurts poor black folks more than anyone. I'm not sure about the relevance of Umar Johnson here (although I do agree with you about him), as this is the LaVar Ball thread...

My point is that the few examples you probably have seen, those same dudes have probably criticized him at some other point. I'm sure they are dude blanketly riding for LaVar but most people that have support him in this thread have called him out when he crossed the line. The race aspect has mostly been about how he is portrayed in the media.

And I agree with how America capitalism and let down the black community, but LaVar Ball is really not an example of that. Yes he is a capitalist and yes he hustling, yes he is only out for himself but famb is harmless in the grander scale of things. He is slanging sneakers, the most damage he can do is become a competitive fringe to Nike, or Adidas.

The way things like education, infrastructure, healthcare, and financial services have been turn into commodities that are hand out in unequal amounts and unequal quality, instead of being viewed as public goods is the real danger. I am pretty lefty that believe America and the black community needs to warm up to socialist solutions but I don't vilify capitalism that much. Because that is that same type of thinking as the person that vilifies socialism because of a few scumbag dictators.

The main problem is not capitalism itself, it is how we practice capitalism. American love to preach about the effeminacy of markets and the beauty of perfect competition but we practice crony capitalism, hand firms monopolistic power, and indulge them in all their rent seeking behaviro. Black people are the lower classes (poor whites too) are told to the most basic of services have to be excludable and rivialous so we better prepared to practice some rugged individualism. At the same time a more robust welfare state is built for the white and rich.

No reasonable socialist imo should be running around demonizing capitalism, it should be pointing out how toxic the America verity is, why it should not be used in some instances, and why well regulated markets would be the better option in other times.

The Umar Johnson example was because Johnson wanted black people to give him money to fund a school and pitched it as it was the black community responsibility to help him get the school because "look at how the education system treats black kids". The problem is systemic, and needs a policy solution to address the multiple system issues. Giving a person like Umar Johnson a school would have done little to nothing to solve the issue. Just give most black folk something to route for, while it would be helping a select few. I have a very low opinion of Johnson anyway, but bringing him up was not meant to be an indictment of him personally.

Even if I could wish a ton more public services into America’s economy. And free the black community from the economic barriers it faces, a dude like LaVar would still be allowed to exist.

Just that if dem shoes ain’t ship by December. The Federal Finesser Enforcement Bureau might be on his ***

 

[after the dance]

If you're dumb enough to actually confidently evaluate him having only seen a mixtape, the UK game and his season averages then go ahead. This world can't help you.

Having said that, UCLA had 8 conference games start at 7:30 or later pacific time. I really doubt that anyone who's knocking his talent saw him play more than 2-3 times this year. And I think that's being generous. 

 

[wavycrocket]

I used to think everybody watched college ball...and understood that the game was only 40 minutes...with a slower pace....30/35 second shotckock, over coaching, zone defense and sometimes loaded teams in major conferences.

I mean....look at the averages of these point guards in college:

D. Rose: 14/5/4
John Wall: 16/6/4
Westbrook: 12/4/3
Chris Paul: 15/6/4

Dudes really saying Lonzo wasn't impressive this year in college

 

[$tacy]

Markelle the real young god in the draft so it don't eem matter

 

[stillin729]

if the Lakers get the 1st overall pick and take Lonzo

man this kid is going to have the most pressure of any rookie in NBA history

 

[biggie62]

Higher than the pressure Lebron had? Some of you guys are really showing your age.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

if the Lakers get the 1st overall pick and take Lonzo

man this kid is going to have the most pressure of any rookie in NBA history

Hell nah. Wouldn't be close to the pressure on Lebron.

 

[VARNELL HILL]

Not even a quarter of the pressure that was on Bron. 

 

[EddieDoyers]

Please
The only pressure Lonzo be getting from is from his dad

 

[-Red-]

My point is that the few examples you probably have seen, those same dudes have probably criticized him at some other point. I'm sure they are dude blanketly riding for LaVar but most people that have support him in this thread have called him out when he crossed the line. The race aspect has mostly been about how he is portrayed in the media.

And I agree with how America capitalism and let down the black community, but LaVar Ball is really not an example of that. Yes he is a capitalist and yes he hustling, yes he is only out for himself but famb is harmless in the grander scale of things. He is slanging sneakers, the most damage he can do is become a competitive fringe to Nike, or Adidas.

The issue isn't what LaVar is doing. The issue is in seeing what he's doing as some type of revolutionary, pro-black stand and in seeing supporting BBB as some meaningful act of racial solidarity and support for the "little guy." These types of responses are abundant in this thread. Increased success by the black wealthy, who in this case are framed as the "little guys," will not translate into meaningful change for poor, working-class, or even middle-class black folks. But that is the narrative that LaVar is implicitly pushing and that I see many people implicitly (or explicitly) buying into. LaVar is appealing to these sentiments in marketing his brand in order to enrich himself and his family, which is fine, but let's call it what it is.

And too often a version of this logic is touted as the solution to issues plaguing black communities--that what is promoted by and benefits black elites is somehow good for all black people in some indirect or even tangible way.

The way things like education, infrastructure, healthcare, and financial services have been turn into commodities that are hand out in unequal amounts and unequal quality, instead of being viewed as public goods is the real danger. I am pretty lefty that believe America and the black community needs to warm up to socialist solutions but I don't vilify capitalism that much. Because that is that same type of thinking as the person that vilifies socialism because of a few scumbag dictators.

The main problem is not capitalism itself, it is how we practice capitalism. American love to preach about the effeminacy of markets and the beauty of perfect competition but we practice crony capitalism, hand firms monopolistic power, and indulge them in all their rent seeking behaviro. Black people are the lower classes (poor whites too) are told to the most basic of services have to be excludable and rivialous so we better prepared to practice some rugged individualism. At the same time a more robust welfare state is built for the white and rich.

No reasonable socialist imo should be running around demonizing capitalism, it should be pointing out how toxic the America verity is, why it should not be used in some instances, and why well regulated markets would be the better option in other times.

I largely agree with this. I was speaking within the context of American, neoliberal capitalism here, a system in which the top 0.1% of households own as much wealth as the bottom 90%.

The Umar Johnson example was because Johnson wanted black people to give him money to fund a school and pitched it as it was the black community responsibility to help him get the school because "look at how the education system treats black kids". The problem is systemic, and needs a policy solution to address the multiple system issues. Giving a person like Umar Johnson a school would have done little to nothing to solve the issue. Just give most black folk something to route for, while it would be helping a select few. I have a very low opinion of Johnson anyway, but bringing him up was not meant to be an indictment of him personally.

This was basically my response to the Obama's plan to donate $2 million for jobs in Chicago in lieu of a systemic policy solution, a response which you derided

I mean, if BBB is successful--and that is a BIG if--what is the "best-case scenario" over the next 20 years? That two dozens wildly wealthy families of NBA pottery picks enrich themselves even further and put a small dent in the athletic corporate establishment? OK, that's fine, but we should understand that's where the potential benefits of this would end.

Even if I could wish a ton more public services into America’s economy. And free the black community from the economic barriers it faces, a dude like LaVar would still be allowed to exist.

As he should be. But dudes still shouldn't be bamboozled by self-interest being promoted as collective empowerment.

Just that if dem shoes ain’t ship by December. The Federal Finesser Enforcement Bureau might be on his ***

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Wouldn't even be the same pressure that DRose had.

 

[stillin729]

he goes #1 to the Lakers, ****

Bron is the exception to the rule because of his hype

 

[MajinZuub]

Self promotion with little to go on. Lonzo's UCLA career was lackluster (look at his stats 14,. 7, 6... highest scored game was 24), highlight reel is passive at best, tournament game vs Kentucky in a prime time National Audience saw him struggle against De'Aaron Fox, and I remember the major news about the Ball family out here in So Cal was about LaMelo when he scored 92 in a high school game.

I can understand if Lonzo was Lebron going into the NBA with a multitude of talent far exceeding the average, but we're talking about Lonzo and a possible draft bust promoting a $500 shoe. Hilarious! I hope Lavar keeps up the trolling because this is pure entertainment.

First paragraph is one of the dumbest things I've read on this site

 

[Maximus Meridius]

.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

My point is that the few examples you probably have seen, those same dudes have probably criticized him at some other point. I'm sure they are dude blanketly riding for LaVar but most people that have support him in this thread have called him out when he crossed the line. The race aspect has mostly been about how he is portrayed in the media.

And I agree with how America capitalism and let down the black community, but LaVar Ball is really not an example of that. Yes he is a capitalist and yes he hustling, yes he is only out for himself but famb is harmless in the grander scale of things. He is slanging sneakers, the most damage he can do is become a competitive fringe to Nike, or Adidas.

The issue isn't what LaVar is doing. The issue is in seeing what he's doing as some type of revolutionary, pro-black stand and in seeing supporting BBB as some meaningful act of racial solidarity and support for the "little guy." These types of responses are abundant in this thread. Increased success by the black wealthy, who in this case are framed as the "little guys," will not translate into meaningful change for poor, working-class, or even middle-class black folks. But that is the narrative that LaVar is implicitly pushing and that I see many people implicitly (or explicitly) buying into. LaVar is appealing to these sentiments in marketing his brand in order to enrich himself and his family, which is fine, but let's call it what it is.

And too often a version of this logic is touted as the solution to issues plaguing black communities--that what is promoted by and benefits black elites is somehow good for all black people in some indirect or even tangible way.

The way things like education, infrastructure, healthcare, and financial services have been turn into commodities that are hand out in unequal amounts and unequal quality, instead of being viewed as public goods is the real danger. I am pretty lefty that believe America and the black community needs to warm up to socialist solutions but I don't vilify capitalism that much. Because that is that same type of thinking as the person that vilifies socialism because of a few scumbag dictators.

The main problem is not capitalism itself, it is how we practice capitalism. American love to preach about the effeminacy of markets and the beauty of perfect competition but we practice crony capitalism, hand firms monopolistic power, and indulge them in all their rent seeking behaviro. Black people are the lower classes (poor whites too) are told to the most basic of services have to be excludable and rivialous so we better prepared to practice some rugged individualism. At the same time a more robust welfare state is built for the white and rich.

No reasonable socialist imo should be running around demonizing capitalism, it should be pointing out how toxic the America verity is, why it should not be used in some instances, and why well regulated markets would be the better option in other times.

I largely agree with this. I was speaking within the context of American, neoliberal capitalism here, a system in which the top 0.1% of households own as much wealth as the bottom 90%.

The Umar Johnson example was because Johnson wanted black people to give him money to fund a school and pitched it as it was the black community responsibility to help him get the school because "look at how the education system treats black kids". The problem is systemic, and needs a policy solution to address the multiple system issues. Giving a person like Umar Johnson a school would have done little to nothing to solve the issue. Just give most black folk something to route for, while it would be helping a select few. I have a very low opinion of Johnson anyway, but bringing him up was not meant to be an indictment of him personally.

This was basically my response to the Obama's plan to donate $2 million for jobs in Chicago in lieu of a systemic policy solution, a response which you derided

I mean, if BBB is successful--and that is a BIG if--what is the "best-case scenario" over the next 20 years? That two dozens wildly wealthy families of NBA pottery picks enrich themselves even further and put a small dent in the athletic corporate establishment? OK, that's fine, but we should understand that's where the potential benefits of this would end.

Even if I could wish a ton more public services into America’s economy. And free the black community from the economic barriers it faces, a dude like LaVar would still be allowed to exist.

As he should be. But dudes still shouldn't be bamboozled by self-interest being promoted as collective empowerment.

Just that if dem shoes ain’t ship by December. The Federal Finesser Enforcement Bureau might be on his ***

-If you want to keep making the assertion of the "revolutionary" sentiment going on in this thread, I'm going to need receipts. Who are these people giving LaVar a blank check, or saying this is a replacement for more systemic changes. Dudes are happy for the brother, when he oversteps people that support him have been critical. I can understand you having an issue with this sentiment in general. but I really don't see it being this rampant in this thread.

-American's problem with capitalism can't just be labeled as neoliberalism and be done with it. There can be conditions where labor has too much power, too much money is being spent on the welfare state that it creates poverty traps and markets are over regulated. We definitely so not live in this world though. But If we lived in that world I would be begging for some "neoliberalism". Neoliberalism seems to have just become a buzzword more than anything to vilify market solutions and free trade.

-There doesn't have to be something deeper than a couple black families finessed the situation to their advantage. So what, good for them, who are they hurting? Why should I shed tears for Nike and Adidas. Yes we have to be weary of black people using the utility they gain from supporting black business as a replacement for true economic justice, then again supporting black folk in capitalist endeavors and fighting for socialist solutions problems don't have to be mutually exclusive. LaVar and the rest of dem black families can get dat coins, and I will be happy for them, but Imma want them to run them tax dollars to fund single payer, job programs, education grants, etc.

-Obama and Umar Johnson are not the same. Obama took 2 million of his own money to donate to a program that social scientist have proven to make a difference, he committed and act of charity, and lets remember the brother fought year after year for jobs programs. Umar Johnson ran around and demanded black people give him money to get his school and shamed black people that didn't support his cause. Anyone with sense could have spotted the finesse move that would have came next. Proper context matters

 

[pums]

The comparison of Liangelo should be if Chris smith can make it ...

 

[All Ready]

only a matter of time til they target his wife and she divorces him and runs off with the loot

hope it doesn't end that way

hopefully she rides

 

[RustyShackleford]

I think Lonzo's mom is more concern with recovering from the multiple strokes she suffered than plotting to leave LaVar