Originally Posted by abovelegit1
First off, your arguments are erroneous and completely arbitrary. Not once in your entire spiel did you give any hard evidence that supports your points. When I asserted that Paul was the better passer you asked me if I just watched CP highlight mixes. Then to prove your point about Deron being the better passer you tell me to watch last night's highlights? Really? All I know is that Paul's assist ratio (percentage of possessions that end in an assist) is 39.3 compared to Deron's which is 30.7. CP3's assist to turnover ratio is an astounding 4.2, while Deron's is 2.8. A point guards job is to maximize scoring opportunities for others while minimizing turnovers or lost possessions which basically constitutes running an offense. CP3 does both more effectively than Deron, therefore he is a better point guard and runs an offense better.
He is a better scorer than Williams, evidenced by his field goal percentages given above by JD617. Likewise he is a better rebounder than Williams, a rebound rate (percentage of missed shots that a player rebounds) of 8.2 compared to 6.2. Neither are great defenders, but I'd give the edge to Deron for on-ball defense due to size/strength. And Paul for help defense and general disruption (3 steals per). So that's a wash.
As for your other points (head to head record, stats, etc.) they are mostly irrelevant. Deron has consistently had better teams around him which is why the record is what it is. Your assertions regarding the other players getting contracts and playing well reflects more on the front office and Jerry Sloan than Williams, though he had something to do with it. Still, this can be applied to Paul as well who has overachieved in terms of team success with medicore teams. And yes Deron has slightly outperformed Paul when they go head to head, probably due to his size and strength. But realize that there are 29 other teams in the NBA against which Paul performs better. BTW, I'm a fan of Deron's game. Great player.
And yes if Westbrook maintains his level of production on offense and his phenomenal defense he has displayed thus far this season I would take him over Deron. Not sure if many people have noticed, but he's been one of the best guards in the league so far. Not saying I would take him over Deron right now though, get back to me after the season.
Regarding Rondo, yes he's an otherworldly passer, honestly one of the best I've seen. But the fact is he has GLARING holes in his game, that much is obvious. To put him and Deron over Paul is laughable.
Cliffnotes: CP3
eron
Great response, I still disagree. To your points:
"A point guards job is to maximize scoring opportunities for others while minimizing turnovers or lost possessions which basically constitutes running an offense."
First and foremost, a BASKETBALL player's job is to excel on offense and defense. While some superstars seem to only excel in 1 area (Nash, Dwight), we have superstars who are more balanced (Kobe, CP3, Deron). I do agree that Deron is a superior on ball defender. With today's golden era of PGs in the NBA, you can't overlook Deron's obvious advantage in height, size, defense...if you want to go offense only, I think Deron/CP3 present distinct advantages but in terms of defense and leadership, I'll take Deron.
" CP3's assist to turnover ratio is an astounding 4.2, while Deron's is 2.8."
To your credit, it's almost impossible to argue against numbers. But this is the reason why some players play better than their numbers and some players #s inflate their actual talent i.e. Antawn Jamison vs Lamar Odom.
"Deron has consistently had better teams around him which is why the record is what it is."
I'm not sure how to argue this point since my original assertion was that Deron made his teammates and thus his team better. Okafor is a #2 overall pick, David West was a damn near lottery pick, and Ariza has a ring. On the other side, AK47 is highly inconsistent, the Jazz lost 5 of their rotation players in the offseason (Boozer, Wes, Ronnie, Korver to other teams...all overpaid but I'll touch on that later...and Okur is still out due to injury). The Jazz and Hornets are both talented teams (as evidenced by their record this year so far), to say that head to head record means nothing is pretty ignorant.
"Your assertions regarding the other players getting contracts and playing well reflects more on the front office and Jerry Sloan than Williams, though he had something to do with it."
Great deflection...I won't really argue this point because it's preposterous to insinuate that Sloan or the front office were more directly responsible than Deron for 100% of last year's Jazz free agents receiving ridiculous contracts from other teams.
"Not sure if many people have noticed, but he's been one of the best guards in the league so far."
Trust me, everyone has noticed. It's safe to say DRose and Westbrook have been the most surprising PGs thus far. We knew Rondo could pass, we knew Deron/CP3 would put up monster numbers, but DRose and Westbrook are leading their teams (sorry Durant) to victories...I definitely agree with you that Westbrook is playing like an elite PG
"Regarding Rondo, yes he's an otherworldly passer, honestly one of the best I've seen. But the fact is he has GLARING holes in his game, that much is obvious. To put him and Deron over Paul is laughable."
Rondo has already proven to be one of the best passers in NBA history...he has successfully managed some of the biggest egos/personalities to ever play basketball (ask the Glove how he enjoyed his stint with the Lakers), is already the best Celtic PG ever, is arguably the best defender at the 1 position since Gary Payton, and makes clutch plays. To discount him just because he has a broke jumper is laughable. Ask last year's Cavs or Magic if they'd rather have played Rondo or Deron in the playoffs. Rondo makes that team go and to say he's not part of the elite PG discussion is foolish.
Cliffnotes: Deron is slightly better than CP3 (not as clearcut or obvious as i.e. LeBron vs Melo), Rondo is underrated by NT
