Transgender Boy Wins High School Girls' Wrestling Championship in Texas

[flyeed]

Men are men women are women.... Blurring the lines keeps us confused and changing the narrative changes the definition of what it means to be either..

You getting too confused means you don’t care enough to take 10 minutes to “un-confuse” yourself. And too confusing isn’t an argument with a leg to stand on in discussions of morality, ethics, reasoning, and biology.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Which is why as I stated before there should just be one division for cis girls and another for everyone else. Who cares how people would react or exactly what the label for each division would be just yet, we’re here to just discuss a hypothetical solution of what would make sense. The hypothetical PR to make it happen can come afterwards.

Got you. I think this might be the best solution I have heard thus far. It would upset someone but with any decision, people will be upset.

This way, Title IX is still serving the original purpose.

 

[iamdef]

What about having cis women and biologically born females who identify as men but have no hormonal therapies competing in one division? And all others competing in a singular other division, totaling only 2 divisions like we currently have? This would keep everyone on a biologically fair playing field so trans women don’t compete with cis women, and so trans men receiving hormones don’t compete with cis women either. And once again we can worry about naming and PR later.

honestly I have no idea and my views on sports is basically what I said earlier, there's somebody out there who can bully you and you can either train and get better or realize they got you beat.

I know it's not same as this situation but if there's a kid who's much bigger than the other kids in the game, I can't want that kid to have his own division so that my kid can feel better or feel like it's "fair"? Sports is competitive and the major problem would be if somebody is purposely/maliciously transitioning specifically to succeed or profit

Let’s assume nobody is and move on. What about the important part at hand which is my other post about a reasonable solution to the situation. Since that’s what everyone is focused on let’s focus on that and not ignore it.

I agree the loophole is there and there will have to be a way to combat and prove that somebody is trying to manipulating the system the same way they are cracking down on microdosing PEDs in combat sports

Got you. I think this might be the best solution I have heard thus far. It would upset someone but with any decision, people will be upset.

This way, Title IX is still serving the original purpose.

How many people fit that criteria tho? How large would that division be within a single county?

 

[Peep Game]

honestly I have no idea and my views on sports is basically what I said earlier, there's somebody out there who can bully you and you can either train and get better or realize they got you beat.

I know it's not same as this situation

You are correct and should’ve stopped right there

 

[DCAllAfrican]

h
How many people fit that criteria tho? How large would that division be within a single county?

Division A: Cis-Women (Female born Females)

Division B: Everyone else: Men, Trans-Men, Trans-Women


That is what I took from his proposal.

 

[jape]

Got you. I think this might be the best solution I have heard thus far. It would upset someone but with any decision, people will be upset.

This way, Title IX is still serving the original purpose.

This goes against what the bold typer noir is saying though. He/she said this is a form of discrimination cause they want to be viewed as all the other women are

noir.

 

[noir.]

This goes against what the bold typer noir is saying though. He/she said this is a form of discrimination cause they want to be viewed as all the other women are

noir.

it still is a form of discrimination, you don't have cis-women/trans-women anything else because it's discriminatory, a woman is a woman.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

it still is a form of discrimination, you don't have cis-women/trans-women anything else because it's discriminatory, a woman is a woman.

Well sports are different since they test physicality. So the, "It doesn't happen anywhere else" doesn't really present a strong argument. Plenty of things are allowed in the Sports World that wouldn't fly in Regular Society.

 

[iamdef]

Division A: Cis-Women (Female born Females)

Division B: Everyone else: Men, Trans-Men, Trans-Women


That is what I took from his proposal.

Division A: Cis-Women (Female born Females)

Division B: Men

Division C: Trans-Men

Division D: Trans-Women

is what I got

and even in the divisions you listed putting trans women & trans men against each other wouldn't work either. Trans people don't want just also participate, they want to be included in their respectable divisions

 

[noir.]

Well sports are different since they test physicality. So the, "It doesn't happen anywhere else" doesn't really present a strong argument. Plenty of things are allowed in the Sports World that wouldn't fly in Regular Society.

you all do realize by the ioc standards that transgender athletes who identify as female are allowed to compete in that category as long as their testosterone levels are below a certain level months prior to the competition, or are you all just speaking blindly with no research?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Division A: Cis-Women (Female born Females)

Division B: Men

Division C: Trans-Men

Division D: Trans-Women

is what I got

and even in the divisions you listed putting trans women & trans men against each other wouldn't work either. Trans people don't want just also participate, they want to be included in their respectable divisions

Nobody has time for 4 Divisions in Track man

Track meets with just males and females already last 4+ hours.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

you all do realize by the ioc standards that transgender athletes who identify as female are allowed to compete in that category as long as their testosterone levels are below a certain level months prior to the competition, or are you all just speaking blindly with no research?

1. That has nothing to do with what you quoted / what I said.

2. The IOC isn't the governing body of High School Sports, not sure why that is being discussed right NOW.

3. "below a certain level months prior to the competition" means JUST that. People can cycle off in time to make sure they can pass testing. The same thing all dirty blooded athletes do.

 

[iamdef]

Nobody has time for 4 Divisions in Track man

Track meets with just males and females already last 4+ hours.

lol no argument here
I say let those who are honestly trans participate with the gender they identify and work on ways to figure out the pretenders

 

[noir.]

1. That has nothing to do with what you quoted / what I said.

2. The IOC isn't the governing body of High School Sports, not sure why that is being discussed right NOW.

3. "below a certain level months prior to the competition" means JUST that. People can cycle off in time to make sure they can pass testing. The same thing all dirty blooded athletes do.

just don't type to me anymore, you're hell bent on dying on a hill of idiocy, & i'm really over it, lol.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

just don't type to me anymore, you're hell bent on dying on a hill of idiocy, & i'm really over it, lol.

Of course.

You haven't presented a sound argument since you started posting but enjoy your day.

 

[flyeed]

Division A: Cis-Women (Female born Females)

Division B: Everyone else: Men, Trans-Men, Trans-Women


That is what I took from his proposal.

This is what I meant. Thanks for putting it more concisely

I’d also say that females who identify as men but have undergone no hormonal therapy can choose either one. They’re biologically on the same playing field as cis females, and have no advantage playing in “Division B” but maybe would want to compete in B because that’s aligns with what they identify as. There’s no harm/unfair advantage in either scenario, and there’s the added benefit of open-mindedness and respecting the individual.

 

[blastercombo]

The main “problem”, for lack of a better word, is that transgender itself has not been universally defined. If I lose a men’s track meet can I say I’m a woman in an hour and dominate out of spite? Who’s to say anyone can say I don’t mean it? Where can someone tell someone to stop?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

@iondewmuch Interested in YOUR take on this topic considering you are currently a high level athlete.

The main “problem”, for lack of a better word, is that transgender itself has not been universally defined. If I lose a men’s track meet can I say I’m a woman in an hour and dominate out of spite? Who’s to say anyone can say I don’t mean it? Where can someone tell someone to stop?

While this IS an extreme statement (I am not saying it to pick at your point), it reveals an issue with the conversation. What makes one person's proclamation more sincere than the next? Is someone able to turn it off depending on the month?

This is what I was saying earlier when I mentioned people who are claiming to be trans for malicious reasons or for profit
I think this would be resolved with time and that right now allow trans people to participate in their "proper" division unless they are proven to be operating improperly

Maybe this NEEDS to happen for people to start having an honest conversation on the topic instead of everyone tip-toeing around the convo making statements not trying to ruffle feathers.

 

[iamdef]

The main “problem”, for lack of a better word, is that transgender itself has not been universally defined. If I lose a men’s track meet can I say I’m a woman in an hour and dominate out of spite? Who’s to say anyone can say I don’t mean it? Where can someone tell someone to stop?

This is what I was saying earlier when I mentioned people who are claiming to be trans for malicious reasons or for profit
I think this would be resolved with time and that right now allow trans people to participate in their "proper" division unless they are proven to be operating improperly

 

[blastercombo]

This is what I was saying earlier when I mentioned people who are claiming to be trans for malicious reasons or for profit
I think this would be resolved with time and that right now allow trans people to participate in their "proper" division unless they are proven to be operating improperly

And honest question for anyone, goes back to my limitation question as well, but where is the line drawn to say someone is officially man or woman? % of hormone, time, muscle mass, surgery, etc? I mean it’s an all or nothing thing yet the stipulations are not set

 

[iamdef]

And honest question for anyone, goes back to my limitation question as well, but where is the line drawn to say someone is officially man or woman? % of hormone, time, muscle mass, surgery, etc? I mean it’s an all or nothing thing yet the stipulations are not set

I couldn't come close to telling you and honestly idk how we will ever get an answer that is decently accepted. It's such a fluid line that can be crossed as "simple" as somebody just saying they are male and I think we've gotten to a point at being so accepting that we are more willing to allow somebody to make that decision without challenging them for the sake of respect that people can easily lie to get "preferred" treatment.

Only thing I can say is what we need is for more and more people being open minded and the people who are informed on this subject be willing to leave as much as their personal bias to the side and help educate us all so we can at least be viewing things from the same angle

 

[cedric ceballos]

How hard is it to just tell them no?

You play under the gender you were born as and it’s non negotiable. You don’t like it, you don’t play, or start your own league.

You can’t social media shame, petition or complain your way into getting everything you want in life.

 

[slaughterx]

sidenote, we haven't even gotten into the realm of intersex women (which is a biological sex) or anything of the sort, does that make them not able to compete, under you all's glib definition of what a "woman" is or should be it would, which would also be extremely wrong.

Are you talking about hermaphrodites? Those are the only people that should have a choice in what division they compete in. People need to wake up and stop trying to accommodate mental disorders when it comes to things like this. You can feel how you feel but the rest of the world doesn't have to play along or believe what you believe. That's craziness.

 

[flyeed]

How hard is it to just tell them no?

You play under the gender you were born as and it’s non negotiable. You don’t like it, you don’t play, or start your own league.

You can’t social media shame, petition or complain your way into getting everything you want in life.

What’s wrong with this:

“Division A: Cis-Women (Female born girls)

Division B: Everyone else: Men, Trans-Men, Trans-Women

*females who identify as men but receive no hormones can choose either.”

No advantage for anyone. And let’s not skip ahead to hypothetical outrage/backlash.

 

[jape]

@iondewmuch Interested in YOUR take on this topic considering you are currently a high level athlete.



While this IS an extreme statement (I am not saying it to pick at your point), it reveals an issue with the conversation. What makes one person's proclamation more sincere than the next? Is someone able to turn it off depending on the month?



Maybe this NEEDS to happen for people to start having an honest conversation on the topic instead of everyone tip-toeing around the convo making statements not trying to ruffle feathers.

maybe there should be a process to get it changed on your birth certificate and identification to standardize it
then and only then when it's legally documented can you claim your gender

would eliminate things like that guy who decided to be a woman so he can hold the world record for deadlifting