What was Championship Era Michael Jordan's Worst Game Ever?

[scotthallwithapick]

When Michael's shot wasn't falling he couldn't become a facilitator, he just got frustrated and kept shooting.

I see where this is headed.

it's not an MJ unappreciation thread in disguise, don't worry.

More a "whoa, even though MJ get praised as da gawd of da playoffz (and might deserve to be) he had so many awful games that no one ever talks about."

Did this receive some inspiration from excerpts from a certain Hall of Fame NBA coach recent book?

 

[gllahone84]

I submit:

May 26, 1997 - Game 4 of the Eastern Conference Finals versus the Miami Heat

45 minutes played, 29 pts (11 off free throws), 9 for 35 shooting (25.7%), 0 for 8 from 3pt, 8 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal.

He missed 19 of 21 shots at one stretch (before scoring 18 straight points by himself.)

While giving up 25 pts, 6 rebounds, 7 assists and 5 3pters to Tim Hardaway.

Thoughts?

That's a normal stat line for most of these so called star players today. 

 that does look like a Melo stat line. 

 

[nako xl]

When Michael's shot wasn't falling he couldn't become a facilitator, he just got frustrated and kept shooting.

I see where this is headed.

it's not an MJ unappreciation thread in disguise, don't worry.

More a "whoa, even though MJ get praised as da gawd of da playoffz (and might deserve to be) he had so many awful games that no one ever talks about."

Did this receive some inspiration from excerpts from a certain Hall of Fame NBA coach recent book?

Haven't seen anything from the Phil book except for the Kobe vs. Jordan comment.

This was inspired from me listening to the Dan Lebatard show daily and they were comparing the Heat game 2 loss to Jordan losing to the 97 Heat.  I hadn't realized his stat line was that atrocious. it then caused me to look up other bad MJ games.

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Alright cause this quote

When Michael's shot wasn't falling he couldn't become a facilitator, he just got frustrated and kept shooting.

sounds like this quote

Jordan was also more naturally inclined to let the game come to him and not overplay his hand, whereas Kobe tends to force the action, especially when the game isn't going his way.

When his shot is off, Kobe will pound away relentlessly until his luck turns. Michael, on the other hand, would shift his attention to defense or passing or setting screens to help the team win the game.

 

[nako xl]

Alright cause this quote

When Michael's shot wasn't falling he couldn't become a facilitator, he just got frustrated and kept shooting.

sounds like this quote

Jordan was also more naturally inclined to let the game come to him and not overplay his hand, whereas Kobe tends to force the action, especially when the game isn't going his way.

When his shot is off, Kobe will pound away relentlessly until his luck turns. Michael, on the other hand, would shift his attention to defense or passing or setting screens to help the team win the game.

That was a complete coincidence.  I honestly haven't seen anything from the Phil book that wasn't on Sportscenter.

I will say, I don't think that statement about Michael passing and setting screens is true.  There's numbers that argue otherwise... Not getting into a Kobe vs. Michael debate because I don't think this has anything to do with that.

 

[donmega]

it's not an MJ unappreciation thread in disguise, don't worry.

More a "whoa, even though MJ get praised as da gawd of da playoffz (and might deserve to be) he had so many awful games that no one ever talks about."

I think it's simply a case of him winning most if not all the time in the playoffs thus people always remember him for that. I mean, up until this time I can only remember his good games and game winning shots

 

[nako xl]

it's not an MJ unappreciation thread in disguise, don't worry.

More a "whoa, even though MJ get praised as da gawd of da playoffz (and might deserve to be) he had so many awful games that no one ever talks about."

I think it's simply a case of him winning most if not all the time in the playoffs thus people always remember him for that. I mean, up until this time I can only remember his good games and game winning shots

Not really though.  MJ had something like a .587 winning percentage in the playoffs.

He only won half the games he played in the postseason, but people only remember the 6 rings.  I think what people forget is MJ wasn't getting praised like this while he was playing.  Those first three rings he was getting criticized every year, and every year was the year that Barkley or Drexler or someone else was going to knock the Bulls off.  The conversation was always, Michael's selfish, he plays me-first ball, you can't win consistently like that, he can't shoot, deny the penetration and he'll falter.

And even in the second three-peat the dialogue would be well this year the Jazz are having career performances and this is the end of the road for the Bulls.

NOWWWW everyone looks back and goes "MJ never let his team lose" but that's just not true at all.

 

[bonafide hustla]

Not really though.  MJ had something like a .587 winning percentage in the playoffs.

He only won half the games he played in the postseason, but people only remember the 6 rings.  I think what people forget is MJ wasn't getting praised like this while he was playing.  Those first three rings he was getting criticized every year, and every year was the year that Barkley or Drexler or someone else was going to knock the Bulls off.  The conversation was always, Michael's selfish, he plays me-first ball, you can't win consistently like that, he can't shoot, deny the penetration and he'll falter.

And even in the second three-peat the dialogue would be well this year the Jazz are having career performances and this is the end of the road for the Bulls.

NOWWWW everyone looks back and goes "MJ never let his team lose" but that's just not true at all.

you're reaching with this whole angle you're trying to come from. MJ had criticism, but he answered every single time. Yes he went through his first few years where he didn't get a ring, as did Lebron, but he was putting up astronomical numbers and still competing at a very high level. That selfishness jazz was a critcism for a very short period but far from a weakness. He put up ASTRONOMICAL numbers all around. Assists, rebounds, steals, occasional blocks, etc. Contrary to popular belief he also guarded the best player a lot for entire games and series. Lebron does it when the heat need it. No knock to him he's great but dont sleep on what MJ was doing.


The year he got his first ring, his peers were saying he was the best player they had ever seen. This is 1990-91. He got a bunch of hate but answered every time after that and by time he had a couple under his belt the GOAT talks had been solidified.

The difference with Lebron is there is no overwhelming majority saying he's the best player to play the game. You hear people say it randomly, but it's still in question whether Lebron is even better than Kobe. again no knock to Bron, but MJ cannot be used as an example to help Lebron's case at this point.

Scroll to 4:40.


Lebron haters definitely go too far with their criticism...but let's not get it twisted, he is still not on MJ's level.

 

[nako xl]

Not really though.  MJ had something like a .587 winning percentage in the playoffs.

He only won half the games he played in the postseason, but people only remember the 6 rings.  I think what people forget is MJ wasn't getting praised like this while he was playing.  Those first three rings he was getting criticized every year, and every year was the year that Barkley or Drexler or someone else was going to knock the Bulls off.  The conversation was always, Michael's selfish, he plays me-first ball, you can't win consistently like that, he can't shoot, deny the penetration and he'll falter.

And even in the second three-peat the dialogue would be well this year the Jazz are having career performances and this is the end of the road for the Bulls.

NOWWWW everyone looks back and goes "MJ never let his team lose" but that's just not true at all.

you're reaching with this whole angle you're trying to come from. MJ had criticism, but he answered every single time. Yes he went through his first few years where he didn't get a ring, as did Lebron, but he was putting up astronomical numbers and still competing at a very high level. That selfishness jazz was a critcism for a very short period but far from a weakness. He put up ASTRONOMICAL numbers all around. Assists, rebounds, steals, occasional blocks, etc. Contrary to popular belief he also guarded the best player a lot for entire games and series. Lebron does it when the heat need it. No knock to him he's great but dont sleep on what MJ was doing.


The year he got his first ring, his peers were saying he was the best player they had ever seen. This is 1990-91. He got a bunch of hate but answered every time after that and by time he had a couple under his belt the GOAT talks had been solidified.

The difference with Lebron is there is no overwhelming majority saying he's the best player to play the game. You hear people say it randomly, but it's still in question whether Lebron is even better than Kobe. again no knock to Bron, but MJ cannot be used as an example to help Lebron's case at this point.

Scroll to 4:40.
Lebron haters definitely go too far with their criticism...but let's not get it twisted, he is still not on MJ's level.

Nah...  Jordan guarded Hershey Hawkins, Jeff Hornacek and Bryon Russell.

Name one thing physically/basketball wise MJ does better than Lebron.

Shoot free throws?

But that's not the point of this thread.  So let's focus on how MJ had some terrible games that seem to have been forgotten in the retelling of history.

 

[mister friendly]

Jordan is better than Lebron in every way

Show me the clips where teams leave Jordan wide open to shoot jumpers

 

[bonafide hustla]

the bulls guarded based on position. it worked out obviously bc Jordan could guard quicker guards. (Pip could too). But Pip was also bigger and thus guarded bigger guys. pause. Either way, they guarded based on matchup and it wasnt always Pip in the best player dig a bit deeper for research:

http://chasing23.com/did-scottie-pippen-always-guard-the-other-teams-best-player/

watch games yourself again. it's been a long time: https://www.youtube.com/user/michalus

Michael was unstoppable. That's how he was better. He is also more agile and bouncy. Bron's more big/explosive athletic. That doesn't matter as much when Bron isn't in the paint as much.

Bron passes more and plays more of a distributor but Jordan was ways around 6 and even up to 8 in assists. steals were the same usually higher than bron at similar points. blocks same or higher, rebounds only lower by like 1. but he averaged 8 in a season that needed it. ha.

If any team even thought of putting Diaw on Jordan they'd get swept . Jordan could at any point get off an unguardable shot and that was predicated by him being able to shoot anywhere on the court as well as be able to drive. He developed parts of his game over time but it was dynamic from the jump. And people raved about how he could play at a high rate for an entire game. Elite stamina. pause.

Bron was a couple of free throws away from losing in the finals because he is a suspect shooter.

 

[nako xl]

Jordan is better than Lebron in every way

Show me the clips where teams leave Jordan wide open to shoot jumpers

Not statistically he isn't.

Even when you look at shot charts.  Michael Jordan couldn't shoot for most of his career.

 

[mister friendly]

Jordan is better than Lebron in every way


Show me the clips where teams leave Jordan wide open to shoot jumpers

Not statistically he isn't.

Even when you look at shot charts.  Michael Jordan couldn't shoot for most of his career.

Show me clips where teams dared Jordan to shoot wide open umpers....I'll wait

 

[nako xl]

the bulls guarded based on position. it worked out obviously bc Jordan could guard quicker guards. (Pip could too). But Pip was also bigger and thus guarded bigger guys. pause. Either way, they guarded based on matchup and it wasnt always Pip in the best player dig a bit deeper for research:

http://chasing23.com/did-scottie-pippen-always-guard-the-other-teams-best-player/

watch games yourself again. it's been a long time: https://www.youtube.com/user/michalus

Michael was unstoppable. That's how he was better. He is also more agile and bouncy. Bron's more big/explosive athletic. That doesn't matter as much when Bron isn't in the paint as much.

Bron passes more and plays more of a distributor but Jordan was ways around 6 and even up to 8 in assists. steals were the same usually higher than bron at similar points. blocks same or higher, rebounds only lower by like 1. but he averaged 8 in a season that needed it. ha.

If any team even thought of putting Diaw on Jordan they'd get swept . Jordan could at any point get off an unguardable shot and that was predicated by him being able to shoot anywhere on the court as well as be able to drive. He developed parts of his game over time but it was dynamic from the jump. And people raved about how he could play at a high rate for an entire game. Elite stamina. pause.

Bron was a couple of free throws away from losing in the finals because he is a suspect shooter.

Jordan averaged 5.9 or more assists 5 times in his career and only more than 6.3 once (the one time he averaged 8.0 in his monster '88-89 season.)  He was nowhere near the passer Lebron is.

Jordan shot ghastly from the 3pt line -- only .300 until his come back in 95 and .327 for his career -- and that's following inflated numbers in 95 where he only took 32 shots and shot .500, and a great shooting 96 season where he was 43% from 3.  Michael Jordan couldn't shoot.  Certainly not for the first 8 years of his career.  He started to develop a jumper during the third title run.

And Jordan might not have been stopped by a fat Boris Diaw (did he REALLLLLY stop Lebron? I mean really?) but he sure did get the clamps put on him by a smaller Gary Payton during that few game stretch the Sonics made the switch at the end of the 96 finals.

Payton's one of the best defenders ever yes, and he bothered the hell out of a bigger unstoppable goat.

 

[nako xl]

Jordan is better than Lebron in every way


Show me the clips where teams leave Jordan wide open to shoot jumpers

Not statistically he isn't.

Even when you look at shot charts.  Michael Jordan couldn't shoot for most of his career.

Show me clips where teams dared Jordan to shoot wide open umpers....I'll wait

dog... michael jordan had no outside shot for the first 1/2 of his career. like none.  this isn't a myth. you didn't have to guard him outside the three point line.

 

[nako xl]

By the way lol at "put diaw on jordan."

put craig ehlo on lebron.

 

[mister friendly]

Really? Jordan couldn't shoot?

Do you really believe that?

Have you even attempted to watch any of Jordan's old games?

You're talking 3 point shooting in the 1980s

Do you realize it was a brand new weapon back then?

Jordan didn't attempt over 100 3 pointers til his 6th season.

 

[mister friendly]

By the way lol at "put diaw on jordan."

put craig ehlo on lebron.

Is Elho that much different than Danny Green? And Ehlo could at least hand check vs Jordan to compete.

I'd pay to money to see how Lebron would deal with hand checking and hard fouls

I have no idea how he would deal with the Bad Boys

 

[38816]

being that lebron is like 260, i doubt a hand check from frail white guard would do literally ANYTHING

LOL @ compete, DID HE REALLY COMPETE?

i wonder how jordan would have dealt with a zone defense.

rodman would have checked lebron? LMAOOOOOO ALRIGHT GUY

 

[nako xl]

Really? Jordan couldn't shoot?

Do you really believe that?

Have you even attempted to watch any of Jordan's old games?

You're talking 3 point shooting in the 1980s

Do you realize it was a brand new weapon back then?

Jordan didn't attempt over 100 3 pointers til his 6th season.

because he couldn't shoot the shot...

i watched jordan's old games. his mid range was sick.  but he did most of his work going at the hoop.

and the same way you ask, what if lebron faced a hand check, what if non shooting jordan faced a zone? the team would be in front of him daring him to shoot.

"he'd adjust and learn to shoot the three" you say?

well lebron is bigger and stronger than michael jordan.  i'm pretty sure he'd figure hand checking out too.

this isn't even a debate... aside from free throw shooting, michael isn't a better basketball player or physical specimen than lebron.  the numbers are there.  the play is there.  lebron plays all five positions on the floor.

but that's not what this thread is about, so please...

 

[mister friendly]

being that lebron is like 260, i doubt a hand check from frail white guard would do literally ANYTHING

LOL @ compete, DID HE REALLY COMPETE?

i wonder how jordan would have dealt with a zone defense.

rodman would have checked lebron? LMAOOOOOO ALRIGHT GUY

Jordan would have shot them out of a zone

Show me clips where they dare Jordan to shoot wide open jumpers

Maybe you missed the part where Rodman won Defensive Player of the Year

Where's Diaw's defensive awards? He held Lebron to like 3-18 in the series

 

[denni5themenace]

i wish twitter and social media (and media in general) was more prevalent back in that era. i feel a lot of people's opinions of those athletes would change.

 

[アミーゴ]

Jordan would have shot them out of a zone


Maybe you missed the part where Rodman won Defensive Player of the Year

Where's Diaw's defensive awards? He held Lebron to like 3-18 in the series

WAIT WHAT!?

 

[38816]

jordan could score better than bron, that's forreal it.

but you could always just put pictures of the guys jordan was dropping 60 on up and lol at the same time.

 

[mister friendly]

Really? Jordan couldn't shoot?


Do you really believe that?


Have you even attempted to watch any of Jordan's old games?


You're talking 3 point shooting in the 1980s


Do you realize it was a brand new weapon back then?


Jordan didn't attempt over 100 3 pointers til his 6th season.

because he couldn't shoot the shot...

i watched jordan's old games. his mid range was sick.  but he did most of his work going at the hoop.

and the same way you ask, what if lebron faced a hand check, what if non shooting jordan faced a zone? the team would be in front of him daring him to shoot.

"he'd adjust and learn to shoot the three" you say?

well lebron is bigger and stronger than michael jordan.  i'm pretty sure he'd figure hand checking out too.

this isn't even a debate... aside from free throw shooting, michael isn't a better basketball player or physical specimen than lebron.  the numbers are there.  the play is there.  lebron plays all five positions on the floor.

but that's not what this thread is about, so please...

If you don't want the thread to be about that don't compare Jordan vs Lebron because Jordan is a better player in every way,pure and simple

A non shooting Jordan facing the zone?

Maybe I need to get my eyes checked but are teams constantly running zones in today's NBA?