Why do you believe that there is a god?

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by OnTheNephs

So why are there Woman and Man. Basically you shutdown the idea of all things on earth, by some being tri-gender. What about humans which is essentially what this topic is about. That vid didnt explain anything to me nor did answer anything i said.
Matter of fact all it did was reinforce the idea that an original blueprint of Humans was there. It describes that as time goes on original things get differences due to genetic make up of the previous generation. I do not see much difference, ill rephrase ANY difference in humans since the first finding of a human. 

Some one earlier posted this picture that said if the human body was so amazing it wouldnt have all these issues, then it went to  name a few things. That picture is faulted because its description is like the human brain can not handle moving at high speeds and being thrown around in a car.. Cars were not around when humans first appeared so granted we wouldn't have that "GENE" in our brain yet why have we not produced it? Why are modern humans not more solidly built with extra padding in the skull to provide safety for us considering we have adapted to a certain way of life.

This is what i said in my first post in this thread, you choose to look at yourself in 2011 and believe that humans have rightfully overcame something, the belief in religion, and that you must be correct. That is arrogance considering the history of humans and great achievements by generations that came waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before us.




MAN AND WOMAN homie.. Come on do you guys not see what it means to have 2 identical humans yet they are different. That doesnt trip you out? it doesnt make you think? beyond what a dam scientist can explain????

Why are there genders? One to generate the mechanisms necessary for replication and another set to carry it and assemble it. Look at bacterial replication. Some bacteria can only replicate if they have what we call replication factors. 



I don't know how to properly answer this question...partly because I do not know completely myself...but here is the problem...it is wrong to say that "god" made it because A. you have no proof to support that statement B. you dont know that god did it. You are simply asserting it because you want to. You have no reason to honestly go either way on the question you're asking. The HONEST thing to do would to simply say "I don't know, but lets figure it out"...saying "god did it" doesn't bring you any closer to the answer.




How did you come to the conclusion that humans are the result of a blueprint though? That makes very little sense to me. 




Also, you're lying to yourself if you don't think humans haven't changed over time. There are small differences...for example less and less people are having tail bones and the size of the coxyx(sp?) bone is shrinking. 




Human evolution is hard to witness because as a member of the species you are in fact the result of the same process you are observing...add to the fact that we have longer life spans and periods of reproduction than many other animals that we observe then it gets harder to reasonably assess the changes in species over time. Plus, we only learned about this little more than 150 years ago...




Its easier to view in bacteria and less "complex" organisms because they reproduce quickly, have shorter lifespans, and more easily and ethically controlled gene expressions that we can manipulate and observe. 


But to say that you can't observe evolution is false. You certainly can. There are entire species of insects that we can observe changing in only a few months time due to to changes in their environment and resources available to them...tie in the fossil record (and the fact its extremely hard to make a fossil in the first place) and evolution becomes directly observable. 




Also, I will assert that human evolution as we observe it will slow down...we control too much of nature these days. The weak and disabled are allowed to reproduce and live longer than they normally would have, we are feeding people more than they would be able to feed themselves. Medicine and technology is eliminating many of the things that used nature in various environments would have killed off or made certain populations unable to exist in years past. Granted this is a good thing but it affects the rate at which we change. On top of that, with the ability to globally interact on a greater scale more now than ever, we are mixing at a rate that has never been seen before. 




I answered most of this in the green.




On top of that...the human body isn't that perfect...there are a lot of things we can't do and are prone to errors from incredibly simple causes. 




Plus, if the human body had been "perfectly" designed then I'm sure it wouldn't be so easy for us to suggest things that we would improve with only 5 minutes of thinking. I know everyone can do that. 




Why can't it be that some people were less right than others? Thats all we've ever done. So you mean to tell me that the first cars created were more right than us to not include seat belts? 




To say that because they thought something or did something initially doesn't mean it was the best way to do it or that it can't be improved upon. 




No...it doesn't. You have nothing else to compare it to. 


There is a sense of wonder in a lot of things, but don't let your sense of wonder lead you to making conclusions that you can't support. 




I'm in awe of how at the earliest points of reproduction of almost all animals that the embryos look exactly the same...then they differentiate...but none of that means that there is a god or some creator or higher power. None of that is supported by any fact or evidence so I can not reasonably and honestly subscribe to it.




I can't just believe things because I think of them. 

 

[rko2004]

This world is getting worse and worse. I'm on the bus now with some girls who have to be no older than 20 and its sad. I'm starting to believe that if don't at least see a need for a God, you're delusional. Cursing and talking to a 1 year old like he's an adult on the street. No father in site either. Its bound to get worse. Its sad.

 

[pleasurephd]

Originally Posted by OnTheNephs

So why are there Woman and Man. Basically you shutdown the idea of all things on earth, by some being tri-gender. What about humans which is essentially what this topic is about. That vid didnt explain anything to me nor did answer anything i said.
Matter of fact all it did was reinforce the idea that an original blueprint of Humans was there. It describes that as time goes on original things get differences due to genetic make up of the previous generation. I do not see much difference, ill rephrase ANY difference in humans since the first finding of a human. 

Some one earlier posted this picture that said if the human body was so amazing it wouldnt have all these issues, then it went to  name a few things. That picture is faulted because its description is like the human brain can not handle moving at high speeds and being thrown around in a car.. Cars were not around when humans first appeared so granted we wouldn't have that "GENE" in our brain yet why have we not produced it? Why are modern humans not more solidly built with extra padding in the skull to provide safety for us considering we have adapted to a certain way of life.

This is what i said in my first post in this thread, you choose to look at yourself in 2011 and believe that humans have rightfully overcame something, the belief in religion, and that you must be correct. That is arrogance considering the history of humans and great achievements by generations that came waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before us.

MAN AND WOMAN homie.. Come on do you guys not see what it means to have 2 identical humans yet they are different. That doesnt trip you out? it doesnt make you think? beyond what a dam scientist can explain????

OMG I'll brb and edit this to answer that ?

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by QuestLife

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by QuestLife

first off, dont assume that i am coming in here spouting off rhetoric and telling people they need to adopt my ideas. i will be the first person to tell you i dont have ANY of the answers. However, i still leave my mind open to the possibility of something bigger than myself.

secondly, i dont care if you adopt what im saying or follow my beliefs. acutally, no one should just take what im am saying and believe it, and i never said that anyone should. 

as others have stated, you seem like you have your mind made up about how you see the world and universe. why bother asking people why they believe in god , when to you, the very concept of god doesnt even make sense?

  

I have already said...there could be a god...or there could not be a god...there could be a purple dinosaur in the himalayans, or there could not be. I DO NOT KNOW...
Yet if you ASSERT something then you must back it up. 

End of story. 

I'm open to ANY possibility, but as of yet, none of the evidence brought forth to support the claim that a god exists does not support that claim, thus I do not subscribe to the notion that there is a god, as described. 

and we understand that, you have stated it many times. you need proof of 'god' to believe in 'god'. we get it. however, there are some people who don't need that emperical proof. you just have to accept that at this point.

The universe is insanely vast and most earthy concepts of how it came into existance are very limited in scope. but i personally feel that the energy that exists in the universe, came from somewhere. i dont have proof of that, so go ahead and bash it lol but thats just how i feel , at this point.

No. I don't.



You don't accept ANY OTHER THING in life without a degree of proof or evidence. 




You use evidence and proof to predict likely outcomes from everything from future basketball games to movie endings to deciding if a bridge is safe to cross. 




Yet once again, when it comes to religion and faith people accept these claims with NO evidence and on historical maxims which have been debunked. 




I do not understand why you think it is reasonable to exempt this sort of thinking from all the other ones you use and take advantage of daily. 




Feeling something doesn't make it more real or more factual. 




We already know how vast and extreme things are...but to simply assert them with no evidence for your claim makes you just as false. 




The point is that you can't make a conclusion that you can't back up because then you're free to assert anything and you can never be validated in that concept because you don't test it. 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by smoke ya later

what if you were born in some remote place and didn't know about "GOD" or "SIN" would this person still go to hell?

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

This world is getting worse and worse. I'm on the bus now with some girls who have to be no older than 20 and its sad. I'm starting to believe that if don't at least see a need for a God, you're delusional. Cursing and talking to a 1 year old like he's an adult on the street. No father in site either. Its bound to get worse. Its sad.

You don't need a god to be a good person or to take care of others.
Altruism and morality are witnessed in other species. You've never even given a second thought to whether or not they follow a religion or have a belief in a god though. 

 I bet half the people you talked to in those situations would say they believe in a god based on the numbers of religious people in the world.  
Would that not debunk your point? 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by WISEPHAROAH

here you go Anton I'm sure this guy knows a bit more about "science" then anyone in here and he is a "scientist". I can literally give you thousands of books and information about a true spiritual experience. Just because you have'nt experienced something and you don't believe it doesn't make it anymore unreal. Its extremely arrogant to think any of us have even a fractal of the answers, like I stated we are mere babies and the tone of this conversation and mud slinging in this thread confirms that.

We KNOW we don't have all the answers...none of us says that we do.
But we can't separate what we know from what we don't know by simply attaching false assertions to "experiences" 

Additionally, to say that we must take drugs that clearly alter mental state to experience what you have only shows that it is just that...a MENTAL experience...none of that means it is actually manifested as something supernatural or more real as an entity. 

 

[Pathos]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by smoke ya later

what if you were born in some remote place and didn't know about "GOD" or "SIN" would this person still go to hell?

 that's a smart @## eskimo 

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by sillyputty

There aren't though.
I'm simply saying, if you believe in a god, say or show why you believe in it. If you can't support that notion then you have no reason to believe it. 

Yes, there are though.  This is where your dogmatic ideological framework clouds your ability to think critically.  The irony.

You're not challenging what I've said.
If I say that I can fly, should I not provide evidence of it? Am I just free to say anything without any proof behind it? 

If you say god is a tree or the wind or the fact you're alive...or whatever you choose to expand or contract that argument to then you have to back it up. 

I'm not challenging what you said, I'm challenging the framework from which you are operating.

And if you said that you can fly you do NOT have to provide evidence of it.  Yes, you ARE free to say anything you want without proof behind it.  That doesn't mean that anyone else has to believe you, just as no one HAS to believe in the existence of a higher being.  How do you not understand this basic concept?

at "you HAVE to back it up."

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by RKO2004

This world is getting worse and worse. I'm on the bus now with some girls who have to be no older than 20 and its sad. I'm starting to believe that if don't at least see a need for a God, you're delusional. Cursing and talking to a 1 year old like he's an adult on the street. No father in site either. Its bound to get worse. Its sad.

You don't need a god to be a good person or to take care of others.
Altruism and morality are witnessed in other species. You've never even given a second thought to whether or not they follow a religion or have a belief in a god though. 

 I bet half the people you talked to in those situations would say they believe in a god based on the numbers of religious people in the world.  
Would that not debunk your point? 

We all have the ability to do good or bad. Problem is the world as a collective unit is getting worse

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by red mpls


Yes, there are though.  This is where your dogmatic ideological framework clouds your ability to think critically.  The irony.

You're not challenging what I've said.
If I say that I can fly, should I not provide evidence of it? Am I just free to say anything without any proof behind it? 

If you say god is a tree or the wind or the fact you're alive...or whatever you choose to expand or contract that argument to then you have to back it up. 

I'm not challenging what you said, I'm challenging the framework from which you are operating.

And if you said that you can fly you do NOT have to provide evidence of it.  Yes, you ARE free to say anything you want without proof behind it.  That doesn't mean that anyone else has to believe you, just as no one HAS to believe in the existence of a higher being.  How do you not understand this basic concept?

at "you HAVE to back it up."

If you're free to believe anything then you can never be wrong about anything...i'm sorry for actually knowing if i'm wasting my time on false/unverified things or if i'm actually saying things that are true. 


So if I say "I think i'm big meech"...does that make me Big Meech? 

Come on son. 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by RKO2004

This world is getting worse and worse. I'm on the bus now with some girls who have to be no older than 20 and its sad. I'm starting to believe that if don't at least see a need for a God, you're delusional. Cursing and talking to a 1 year old like he's an adult on the street. No father in site either. Its bound to get worse. Its sad.

You don't need a god to be a good person or to take care of others.
Altruism and morality are witnessed in other species. You've never even given a second thought to whether or not they follow a religion or have a belief in a god though. 

 I bet half the people you talked to in those situations would say they believe in a god based on the numbers of religious people in the world.  
Would that not debunk your point? 

We all have the ability to do good or bad. Problem is the world as a collective unit is getting worse

So you're contradicting yourself.
You've shown this.

You don't need god to be good and you don't have to be a non-believer to be bad. 

"God(s)" is/are no where in the equation so to introduce it/them is completely pointless. 

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by RetroSan

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by smoke ya later

what if you were born in some remote place and didn't know about "GOD" or "SIN" would this person still go to hell?

 that's a smart @## eskimo 

 

[antonlavey]

OnTheNephs wrote:

---

EVERYTHING IS IN PAIRS. WHY?



Why do all things living in this earth reproduce? Why is it Man, and Woman. Why is there an idea of reproduction. Even if the existence of humans is by "Chance", how are we humans?. 

Great you have established that its a big bang theory and somehow magically the stars fell into orbit and we were luckily given  earth, which then luckily produced some sort of organism, which then produced an identical organism, yet with different organs that allowed it to be a pair so that it can reproduce...

I believe in Mans knowledge and will to advance, but I think this idea of not believing is very limiting. 

Keep doing your thing though, believe what you will. You can choose to BELIEVE our origin as something and I will choose to BELIEVE our origin from something else. 

BTW I seen antons post about "bingo" its all luck, and that religion maintains an idea of ME ME ME ME. That is very wrong, no religion preaches that the less fortunate should look onto the rich and be like o why does he have everything. Which is basically what you implied by saying the more fortunate think that they are blessed because they are fortunate. The great thing about religion is the less fortunate still believe they are fortunate and give thanks for that.



FOOLISHNESS, because every living thing on this planet reproduces in pairs-MATTER OF FACT, most living things on this planet do not reproduce in pairs (Bacteria, viruses, yeast)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexual_reproduction



Religious people think up natural phenomena they don't understand and AUTOMATICALLY leap to the dumbest, most illogical answer they can think of

magnets? How do they work? God
Xrays? God
How does my luggage know where to meet me? God
Genetical engineering used to make insulin for diabetics, GOD

Irregardless of how you interprete whatever fictional ancient book you read, I'm talking about how religious people think-

Let's not pretend like many religious people don't selfishly assume God is helping them, completely ignoring the millions of people that God forsakes daily eg dumb%%+ athletes and celebrities who think God helped them win an award

HERE ARE BETTER QUESTIONS?
How does God exist and what created it?
What is God?

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

OnTheNephs wrote:

---

EVERYTHING IS IN PAIRS. WHY?



Why do all things living in this earth reproduce? Why is it Man, and Woman. Why is there an idea of reproduction. Even if the existence of humans is by "Chance", how are we humans?. 

Great you have established that its a big bang theory and somehow magically the stars fell into orbit and we were luckily given  earth, which then luckily produced some sort of organism, which then produced an identical organism, yet with different organs that allowed it to be a pair so that it can reproduce...

I believe in Mans knowledge and will to advance, but I think this idea of not believing is very limiting. 

Keep doing your thing though, believe what you will. You can choose to BELIEVE our origin as something and I will choose to BELIEVE our origin from something else. 

BTW I seen antons post about "bingo" its all luck, and that religion maintains an idea of ME ME ME ME. That is very wrong, no religion preaches that the less fortunate should look onto the rich and be like o why does he have everything. Which is basically what you implied by saying the more fortunate think that they are blessed because they are fortunate. The great thing about religion is the less fortunate still believe they are fortunate and give thanks for that.

FOOLISHNESS, because every living thing on this planet reproduces in pairs-MATTER OF FACT, most living things on this planet do not reproduce in pairs (Bacteria, viruses, yeast)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexual_reproduction



Religious people think up natural phenomena they don't understand and AUTOMATICALLY leap to the dumbest, most illogical answer they can think of

magnets? How do they work? God
Xrays? God
How does my luggage know where to meet me? God
Genetical engineering used to make insulin for diabetics, GOD

Irregardless of how you interprete whatever fictional ancient book you read, I'm talking about how religious people think-

Let's not pretend like many religious people don't selfishly assume God is helping them, completely ignoring the millions of people that God forsakes daily eg dumb%%+ athletes and celebrities who think God helped them win an award

HERE ARE BETTER QUESTIONS?
How does God exist and what created it?
What is God?

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by sillyputty


You don't need a god to be a good person or to take care of others.
Altruism and morality are witnessed in other species. You've never even given a second thought to whether or not they follow a religion or have a belief in a god though. 

 I bet half the people you talked to in those situations would say they believe in a god based on the numbers of religious people in the world.  
Would that not debunk your point? 

We all have the ability to do good or bad. Problem is the world as a collective unit is getting worse

So you're contradicting yourself.
You've shown this.

You don't need god to be good and you don't have to be a non-believer to be bad. 

"God(s)" is/are no where in the equation so to introduce it/them is completely pointless. 

Not pointless to me. But whatever Bro.

 

[antonlavey]

@ THE WORLD GETTING WORSE


People who say nonsense like this have never read a history book in their lives, stop it

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

@ THE WORLD GETTING WORSE


People who say nonsense like this have never read a history book in their lives, stop it

History is my favorite subject. But move along.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

@ THE WORLD GETTING WORSE


People who say nonsense like this have never read a history book in their lives, stop it

History is my favorite subject. But move along.

Right, then you of all people should know the world is messed up now and it was messed up then

World getting worse

Ironically, religiously progressive societies have a high correlation with societal health (Eg Sweden, Norway, France)while the more religious societies are still living in the dark ages of man slaughtering one another

 

[quincy powell]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by smoke ya later

what if you were born in some remote place and didn't know about "GOD" or "SIN" would this person still go to hell?

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by sillyputty

You're not challenging what I've said.
If I say that I can fly, should I not provide evidence of it? Am I just free to say anything without any proof behind it? 

If you say god is a tree or the wind or the fact you're alive...or whatever you choose to expand or contract that argument to then you have to back it up. 

I'm not challenging what you said, I'm challenging the framework from which you are operating.

And if you said that you can fly you do NOT have to provide evidence of it.  Yes, you ARE free to say anything you want without proof behind it.  That doesn't mean that anyone else has to believe you, just as no one HAS to believe in the existence of a higher being.  How do you not understand this basic concept?

at "you HAVE to back it up."

If you're free to believe anything then you can never be wrong about anything...i'm sorry for actually knowing if i'm wasting my time on false/unverified things or if i'm actually saying things that are true. 


So if I say "I think i'm big meech"...does that make me Big Meech? 

Come on son. 

Once again, yes, you and every other human being are free to believe anything you or they want.  That does not make those beliefs "factual" or accurate, nor do other people have to believe them.  I'm not understanding how this is so difficult for you to grasp

at "son."

 

[pleasurephd]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by OnTheNephs

EVERYTHING IS IN PAIRS. WHY?
Why do all things living in this earth reproduce? Why is it Man, and Woman. Why is there an idea of reproduction. Even if the existence of humans is by "Chance", how are we humans?.�

Great you have established that its a big bang theory and somehow magically the stars fell into orbit and we were luckily given �earth, which then luckily produced some sort of organism, which then produced an identical organism, yet with different organs that allowed it to be a pair so that it can reproduce...

I believe in Mans knowledge and will to advance, but I think this idea of not believing is very limiting.�

Not always true. Some species have a three or more genders.
Also, the big bang doesn't say "magic" happened. Its only a theory that asserts that since cosmic entities are rapidly moving apart that they more than likely originated from a singular entity.�

You are asserting things because you THINK that is what is true. If that is the case, back up your thoughts with evidence and proof of your statements. If not, then you have no reason to assert what you're saying other than because you just want to.

Here is a short clip that hopefully can explain some of the things you may not understand about evolution.�

So Sillyputty had a good argument that there are some species with multiple genders. And, to add to that there are many species that have one or no gender. Many living organisms reproduce asexually. You see that in the higher more complex organisms (even though some can still reproduce asexually) they reproduce by sexual means, male and female.

This is because evolution has shown that sexual reproductions allows for an increased amount of genetic variation and therefore increases the speed of evolution and the genetic variety. For example in !+$* sapiens we see a large variety of genetic differences we just call them races. In the overall genomic content it isn't too much of a difference and this is why we are of the same species still, and able to reproduce, but there is a large enough difference that you see dramatic physical and gene expression difference. e.g Black and white. Ever wonder why we see such a variety of different species in one genus? Look at all the different kinds of fish for example. You even see in some species that are less complex all of them look pretty much the same, even non-human primates. But, in human we see a large variety.

Having a large variety of genetic difference also allows us to survive better. On an individual basis as well as the entire species. If we were all genetically exactly the same then one disease could wipe out the entire species. Look up bananas or Tasmanian devils for examples of this. Sexual reproduction with partners who are genetically different  is so great, it is even need. This is why when you have incest the children can come out with genetic diseases and problems.

To discuss the evolution of this, we even see basic forms of "sexual reproduction" in the simplest of organisms. More of genetic exchanging, but still it's a basic form. In E. coli for example they have the genetic ability to produce a pilus which is used in bacterial conjugation (think of conjugal visits). This pilus acts as a well, rudimentary penis passing DNA in the form of plasmids to other "partners". Not all E. coli have this capability. Some forms have evolved to be able to form a pilus.

Evolution of this very basic form into sexual reproduction has made animals today different sexes. It makes sense even logically when you don't take into consideration the genetic and molecular biological aspects. Think of a pregnant woman, and how much harder it is for them to support themselves and the baby (hunting and gathering). How is this woman suppose to survive on her own with no help? Yes, currently with technology she can and has, but it makes more sense that when a woman is pregnant the male does most of the work to support (hunt and gather) the female and his child. It has evolved this way so that all of the proper support for the offspring can be given by the mother's body, and the father then can go hunt and gather.

I just barely scratched the surface. If you want to look into the genetic and molecular aspects there are a lot of genes and proteins that have been passed down, some being exactly identical and others slightly evolved, that have very similar function, if not the same function in reproduction of living organisms. (Notice I didn't just say sexual reproduction)

What do you mean how are we human? The word human and even !+$* sapien is just a man made definition (systematic and logical) for our kind.

LOL at all your other comments. Planets orbit the sun and other stars because of gravity.

Hope this answers your questions. I will be here if you have any others

 

[b smooth 202]

Ironically, religiously progressive societies have a high correlation with societal health (Eg Sweden, Norway, France)while the more religious societies are still living in the dark ages of man slaughtering one another

 

  stick to your field of expertise bruh...you clearly don't belong in the historical-political arena. 

son said 'societal health'

 

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by B Smooth 202

Ironically, religiously progressive societies have a high correlation with societal health (Eg Sweden, Norway, France)while the more religious societies are still living in the dark ages of man slaughtering one another

 

  stick to your field of expertise bruh...you clearly don't belong in the historical-political arena. 


LOLOL and that pseudo-black militant I hate all white, Asian and gay people bull$^^ you spew is proof of your expertise?

The stupid assumptions you made about places like Nigeria is your level of expertise?

Get outta here with all that, dude reaching for topics he could claim to be more of an expert in than I am-I don't claim to be an expert on history and politics but I know enough


Just cause a negro wear a koofie----well you know the rest

LOL are you gonna sit there and argue that traditionally "atheist" societies don't have lower crime rates? I thought this was common knowledge?

 

[b smooth 202]

So now those societies are traditionally atheist? Thats another false statement...go hit your MCAT books sucker...you can't define me.
[table][tr][td]

LOL maybe poor choice of words, but "religiously progressive" or nations with a high percentage of atheists and agnostics-you get the point

[/td][/tr][tr][td][/td][/tr][/table]

Seriously look at you ride Western European society, it's disgusting you view your own self and culture as inferior...!*%% outta here

 

Those countries violently invaded African and Eastern countries, their advancement is at the direct expense of the peoples under them...