Belichick has been taping since 2000, Goodell tells Specter

xcautionx · Feb 14, 2008

Originally Posted by AM 1 FIEND

let me ask you this; what do you think about Barry Bonds? Roger Clemens? Marion Jones? etc

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I think that they were great athletes who made some poor choices. I don't put an * on Barry, nor would I for Roger. Yes I believe they cheated even though they will deny until they turn blue in the face. Marion admitted it and her advantage was different since it was an individual sport. All I am saying is all of the hate directed towards the Pats spawns from jealousy. If the Pats stole your entire play book and knew exactly what play you were going to run every time, then and only then would I put a * next to their SB's. Until that is proven I continue to laugh as all of the salty bitter losers chime in.
thats all i'm saying. Bonds, Clemens etc cheated, Pats cheated, all need or none need to be recognized as cheaters.

27th4thehood · Feb 14, 2008

i thought baseball was doing bad.
we have refs that decided the nba finals and a cheating team that won 3 superbowls

dsk aka illoquent · Feb 14, 2008

I love it how a Giants fan has been defending the Patriots for the last 2 pages.

A-M-1 FIEND (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap)!

No, but seriously I see what point you're trying to make and would agree with you about people being salty if this was any OTHER situation but there'sno excuse for what this team did man. Okay, so now we know they've done it since 2000. We know they did it all the way up to this past year, 2007. If itsproven they cheated vs. the Rams, Eagles, Panthers...strip them of the titles. Take them all away. I wouldn't want to root for a team that had cheatedtheir way into a dynasty. If this Matt Walsh guy has some evidence that'll prove they did that during their SB runs, then they deserve everything everyonehas been throwing at them in the past couple weeks or so. This offseason is certainly going to be interesting for Belichick and I've gone on the record ofsaying if it is indeed proven that Belichick cheated in previous SB's...then get rid of him from the league, Pete Rose style. Show that you don'ttolerate that sort of crap.

I'd seriously retract all that I've said though if (like you're saying) some Mitchell report type of thing surfaces or an ex-NFL player rats out anumber of franchises. Then we'd see that indeed he wasn't the only one doing it and it was the NFL's dirty little secret amongst some teams. As faras right now, they deserve to get piled on because they are the only ones who've been CAUGHT and because of the success they've had, but if let'ssay...half of the league was doing it in their own way...that would lessen the blow IMO and it'd be known as the Spygate Era in football

.

dsk aka illoquent · Feb 14, 2008

Originally Posted by GMSboy1

Originally Posted by DSK aka iLLoQuent

Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

What's gonna end up being the breaking point is if, the allegations of the Pats taping the Rams walk thru ends up being true. If so,
[biggie] better kiss yo +$@ goodbyeeeeeeeee[/biggie]

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Yep.
Him taping back all the way since 2000 is terrible, but not shocking IMO. And not to make ANY excuses for this franchise, but him taping in 2000 didn't help at all (the team went 5-11). 2001 came the SB win (if they cheated vs. Rams, like Gunna said....they're done)....2002 they didn't make the playoffs.

Taping other teams signals or w/e the hell they do is a disgrace to the game and is certainly cheating. But I guess what I was trying to say was it doesn't make or break a game...you still have to go out there and perform. The reason I could say this is even if, let's say, they used tape in EVERY game since 2000....you would have thought they would have had more "perfect" regular seasons like the one that passed, no? The fact that they went 5-11 the first season, won the SB but could have been easily been ousted in the divisional playoffs due to the tuck rule and proceeded not to make the playoffs the following season shows me that the taping is an unfair advantage but it can only help you for so much. Look at the year that just passed...they got caught during the first game of the year, were forced to hand over all evidence they still had and was destroyed and proceeded to go 18...and 1

. Obviously, the tapes had a minimal impact on their "success" before the SB so at the end of the day, the players still have to play and perform.

Again, don't get me wrong. Ever since this thing was blown up, I've always been level-headed and criticized them for doing what they did and IMO the franchise will be ruined if its proven they cheated during the SB. But taping can only get you so far...

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Come on dude didn't the Patriots win 21-22 straight games spanning part of two seasons and the playoffs..

is that really "minimal"?

my fault, I worded that wrong.

When I said "minimal impact on their success (18 wins) before the SB"...I meant the 2007 season that just passed, not the other years before that.

gunna get it · Feb 14, 2008

not every team is doin this, and its evident in the fact that every yr in the off season, the competition committee has shot down the idea of the MLB wearingthe same radio system as the QBs. If every team was doing this, this proposal would have been passed yrs ago.
U better believe if teams suspected this was a league wide problem, the radio woulda been in defensive play caller helmets long ago because every coachingstaff and front office woulda have wanted to keep their calls secret. Guess which proposed change is about to be voted into existance... just take a wild guess

the pga tour · Feb 14, 2008

not every team is doin this, and its evident in the fact that every yr in the off season, the competition committee has shot down the idea of the MLB wearing the same radio system as the QBs. If every team was doing this, this proposal would have been passed yrs ago.

i disagree. the patriots didn't vote for this, probably because they knew they could get an advantage. do you think they are the only team to vote againstit for this reason?

Air273 · Feb 14, 2008

thanks NY Jets, you helped the giants win.

if everyone was doing it, i doubt eric mangini would have said something wouldnt he just keep it to himself and do it also. its clear he didnt have a problembefore he went to the jets but the problem came when he went to the jets and couldnt do it.

throwedindagame · Feb 14, 2008

im shure everyone tapes, just like everyone uses roids. the pats are just a scapegoat.

gunna get it · Feb 14, 2008

not every team has a rep on the comp. committee, but certain issues are addressed to solve problems that have arisen during the yr. For Example, If Mikehomgren (who sits on the committee) heard teams were taping his teaams signals, he would helped eliminate the problem. there may very well be one or two otherteams doin what Belichek was doing but to say "every team is doing it" is pure ignorance and/or just wishful thinkin to justify Coach BB'sactions.

if everyone was doing it, i doubt eric mangini would have said something

and the Packers originally brought the Patriots problem to the commissioner last yr but they had no hard proof like the Jets did. Mangini'speople caught the guy tapiung RED HANDED and a confrontation ensued where league security had to get involved

nachobroadweezy · Feb 14, 2008

dland24 · Feb 14, 2008

Originally Posted by xCautioNx

Originally Posted by AM 1 FIEND

let me ask you this; what do you think about Barry Bonds? Roger Clemens? Marion Jones? etc

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I think that they were great athletes who made some poor choices. I don't put an * on Barry, nor would I for Roger. Yes I believe they cheated even though they will deny until they turn blue in the face. Marion admitted it and her advantage was different since it was an individual sport. All I am saying is all of the hate directed towards the Pats spawns from jealousy. If the Pats stole your entire play book and knew exactly what play you were going to run every time, then and only then would I put a * next to their SB's. Until that is proven I continue to laugh as all of the salty bitter losers chime in.

thats all i'm saying. Bonds, Clemens etc cheated, Pats cheated, all need or none need to be recognized as cheaters.
Couldnt disagree with this statement more. Someone becoming stronger is completely different than a team knowing what the other team is going to do inthe game. Completely different situations. The Pats team had a tremendously HUGE advantage over the other team. That far outweighs someone getting slightlystronger.

DeadsetAce · Feb 14, 2008

well this sucks...it does taint our superbowls. although before this past season, wasn't this allowed or not strictly regulated? obviously not filming walkthrus (if true for sure), but didnt this practice become specifically banned this past off-season.
i dunno, either way, its embarassing. as far as other teams doing it, thats definitely true. other coaches have admitted that it goes on (tomlin, parcells,etc). but still, that doesnt make it right.
the thing that still gets me is that this past off-season, the league came out and specifically said not to do this crap, and we just go right ahead andcontinue doing it. its ridiculous.

AM1Fiend...thanks for the support

DeadsetAce · Feb 14, 2008

and this isnt an excuse or anything...but...even in little league, we changed our signs up from game to game. i would hope nfl teams would do this from week toweek...especially knowing the game is being filmed. again, doesnt make what we did ok, im just offering a thought.

dmxfury · Feb 14, 2008

What is sad that if this is true, the Pats and Bill didn't NEED to do this. They had good enough teams and coaching to get it done legit. Why risk ruiningwhat you won? Just embarrassing for the team.

jrp44 · Feb 14, 2008

But I guess when you are pretty much the best at what you do, people will take any shots they can at you.

Sorry i had too

DeadsetAce · Feb 14, 2008

Originally Posted by dmxfury

What is sad that if this is true, the Pats and Bill didn't NEED to do this. They had good enough teams and coaching to get it done legit. Why risk ruining what you won? Just embarrassing for the team.

embarassing for us fans too...

am 1 fiend · Feb 15, 2008

Originally Posted by Cyprus Sinner II

I think that they were great athletes who made some poor choices. I don't put an * on Barry, nor would I for Roger. Yes I believe they cheated even though they will deny until they turn blue in the face. Marion admitted it and her advantage was different since it was an individual sport. All I am saying is all of the hate directed towards the Pats spawns from jealousy. If the Pats stole your entire play book and knew exactly what play you were going to run every time, then and only then would I put a * next to their SB's. Until that is proven I continue to laugh as all of the salty bitter losers chime in.

Click to expand...

Do you even realize how foolish you sound?

First let's deal with something we know for a fact: Marion Jones took steroids.

Yet, you don't put an * by her or in her case take away her medals?

You sound as if you don't believe it's a big deal, at all.

Now, Marion Jones is absolutely a world class athlete.

But, so is every single damn person in the Olympics. That's why winning at the Olympics is so coveted and respected, because if you win your event you've beat the best in the world.

If someone like Marion Jones takes steroids, that gives them a HUGE performance advantage over everyone else.

This is the part you seem to be blowing off.

Steroids ARE a big deal. They aren't illegal and outlawed in sports for no reason.

Taking them not only gives you an unfair advantage it gives you A HUGE UNFAIR ADVANTAGE.

You absolutely have to be kidding yourself if you don't think taking them negates whatever achievement they've acomplished.

The same goes for Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens, if they took steroids, whatever awards they won after they started taking steroids ARE TAINTED. PERIOD.

As far as the Patriots go:

First of all, they are the ONLY team to have been found guilty of taping.

This is why people are only addressing them.

If it comes to light other teams were taping put an * by all of them too, if it comes to light the whole league was doing it put a * on the whole league.

But as far as we know now the Pats are the only ones to do it.

Every Super Bowl the Pats won has been by 3 points.

They've been accused of taping the Rams redzone plays before that Super Bowl, which now is all but certain because they've admitted to taping signals since 2000.

Oh they just stop taping for the MOST important game of the year? No.

If they are found guilty of taping the Rams, the added advantage of knowing what the Rams were going to do in the red zone IS the reason they won that game, as far as I'm concerned. It's not like they blew the Rams out, it was decided by one field goal. If you know what play someone is going to run and you have a capable defense, you will stop them the majority of the time. It's a HUGE advantage.

And if they are found guilty of taping the Rams, I'm 99% sure they didn't just stop and put the cameras down vs. the Eagles or the Panthers, their two other Super Bowl victories, also only won by 3 points.

If this is true, their whole dynasty is built around cheating.

So, why in the HELL would you downplay it?

People aren't just being 'salty, jealous, bitter haters'.

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Belichick has been taping since 2000, Goodell tells Specter

xcautionx

27th4thehood

dsk aka illoquent

dsk aka illoquent

gunna get it

the pga tour

Air273

throwedindagame

gunna get it

nachobroadweezy

dland24

DeadsetAce

DeadsetAce

dmxfury

jrp44

DeadsetAce

am 1 fiend

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