Arian Foster Let It Be Known That He Is A Non-Believer

[360waves]

Who is slandering anyone else though?

Media, social media, news, articles. Propaganda and agenda. Many people slander others beliefs.

 

[360waves]

I shouldve mentioned thats the attitude I have on this topic not so much people in this thread. I have only skimmed through.

But Media, social media, news, articles. Propaganda and agenda. Many people slander others beliefs

 

[HEATHEN]

Media, social media, news, articles. Propaganda and agenda. Many people slander others beliefs.

In this thread....Obviously all those other mediums do.


The only person doing any slandering is mister friendly .

 

[360waves]

I shouldve mentioned thats the attitude I have on this topic not so much people in this thread. I have only skimmed through.

But Media, social media, news, articles. Propaganda and agenda. Many people slander others beliefs[/quote]

 

[HEATHEN]

There are numerous Authentic hadiths that are backed by many scholars throughout history and are valid.
There are numerous hadiths that aren't authenticated so sometimes there can be confusion especially for those who aren't knowledgeable.

A Muslim will follow sharia law if its stated in the Quran, and authentic Hadith.
Anywhere from allocations of money if divorce happens, how to clean oneself, how to treat your parents, neighbors, silbings, people in general. How a man should treat his wife/ wife to her husband so on and so forth.

There are a few laws that are taken out of context. A man should never hit his wife. violence is not tolerable unless it is in defense. Arabic has many root words and some are taken out of context.

Here's the contradiction. In many "authentic" or "sahih" (Arabic for correct) hadiths, stoning is an acceptable punishment.


Adultery is punishable by death according to Kitab Al-Hudud (Sahih Muslim).

 

[360waves]

Here's the contradiction. In many "authentic" or "sahih" (Arabic for correct) hadiths, stoning is an acceptable punishment.


Adultery is punishable by death according to Kitab Al-Hudud.

There are a few ways to go about dealing with adultery.
Yes Adultery according to the Quran is one of the worst sins one can commit. Yes stoning is permissible for those who are caught and are correctly convicted which can be hard to do.
However, there's also Authentic Hadiths stating that those who commit adultery can repent and stay away from that sin. Wait until they find marriage to be sexually active again. Every surah (chapter) int the quran starts out with "In the name of God, most Gracious, most Compassionate" or merciful. Its best to be merciful when applicable but yes punishment is allowed.

Not only does it prevent diseases and unwanted pregnancies; if followed correctly it reinforces family structure within communities.

 

[HEATHEN]

There are a few ways to go about dealing with adultery.
Yes Adultery according to the Quran is one of the worst sins one can commit. Yes stoning is permissible for those who are caught and are correctly convicted which can be hard to do.
However, there's also Authentic Hadiths stating that those who commit adultery can repent and stay away from that sin. Wait until they find marriage to be sexually active again. Every surah (chapter) int the quran starts out with "In the name of God, most Gracious, most Compassionate" or merciful. Its best to be merciful when applicable but yes punishment is allowed.

Not only does it prevent diseases and unwanted pregnancies; if followed correctly it reinforces family structure within communities.

So are you conceding that hadiths sometimes contradict one another and contradict the Qur'an itself?


FWIW, I was born a Muslim, so I know what the Qur'an states.

 

[360waves]

So are you conceding that hadiths sometimes contradict one another and contradict the Qur'an itself?

I will agree that according to authentic hadith and Quran, adultery is punishable by stoning, flogging with witness and/or honest repentance and ridding oneself of the sin until marriage.

 

[blastercombo]

Trying to explain the bible as historical fact is just as valid as explaining weather with Greek mythology

 

[HEATHEN]

I will agree that according to authentic hadith and Quran, adultery is punishable by stoning, flogging with witness and/or honest repentance and ridding oneself of the sin until marriage.

Stoning or "rajm" isn't mentioned in the Qur'an only hadith.


Only flogging or lashing.

 

[360waves]

Stoning or "rajm" isn't mentioned in the Qur'an only hadith.


Only flogging or lashing.

Correct, that's why I said authentic Hadith and Quran.

It was reported that a boy came to the prophet, peace be upon him that he committed some form of adultery. Stricken with grief he wanted to be stoned to relieve the punish in this life as opposed to the next. The prophet (peace be upon him) told him to repent and refrain from his act. It is permissible for all men of his ummah to ask for repentance and refrain from such acts.

I can sleep with a woman get flogged 100 x. next month another 100. next year another 100x. Or I can ask for repentance, do good deeds and refrain from committing the act which is very difficult in itself.

We try to understand the Quran and its rules/ regulations as best as possible all the while following the sunnah teaching, saying, and practices of the prophet (peace be upon him).

I get your point though. Quran states this and authentic hadith states that. Which goes back to my statement about lack of knowledge.

IF man A only read hadiths and lived by it he would get stonned. Neglecting the quran would be his downfall.
If man B only read the Quran, he would get lashed/ whipped. neglecting the sunnah of the prophet and his many practices we try to emmulate.
If man C reads the quran and looks for authentic hadiths and teachings of his prophet (peace be upon him) he would have a larger grasp of how to handle situations that are clearly ordained for him.

 

[360waves]

Stoning or "rajm" isn't mentioned in the Qur'an only hadith.


Only flogging or lashing.

What are your beliefs?

 

[mister friendly]

Religion is all around the world not even including the religions that try to convert like Christianity and Islam

Dont act like the only way religion spreads is thru force

Show me where I even remotely insinuated that.


By me acknowledging that religion was and to some effect still is spread by force?





You love to mince my words.


Fact is religion was globalized largely in part of conquest. That's not to say that was the only way religion was spread. I shouldn't have to spoon-feed you that tidbit for you to realize that I know that. You can try to misrepresent my argument in an attempt to prop yours, but it won't do you much good.

Tales of atheist empires.....Communism...communism tried to spread it but it did not last because people see the positives in religion...Love, hope and other relative truths.

Funny, I guess Cubans didn't get that memo (that they're Atheists) since they're mostly Catholic, nor did North Koreans since they're mostly Buddhist, or VIetnam, Laos and China...Since every remaining communist nation has religion.



You know what WOULD help your argument, if you actually had even one iota of a clue as to what you're talking about.


Joseph Stalin is not the face of communism, as much as you want him to be. He doesn't represent communism as a whole. What he did doesn't speak for other communist regimes.


Communism =/= atheism. Period. No matter how bad you want to lump the two together.

What you talking about?

What if I told you, @Mister Friendly, that religion wouldn't be this widespread without conquest?



My ancestors were conquered by Arabs and Islam was forced upon them.


And well, we all know Christianity was forced upon black people.

Where am I mincing your words?

Where am I slandering as you've said in a later post?

Do you realize where Communism came from?

Do you realize that the Cuban revolution came after Stalin's attempted removal of religion?

So Castro had a general idea of what he couldn't do in regards to religion?

You say Stalin wasn't the face of communism... as if there's one face to any form of government.

Stalin was the first leader able to practice the Communist philosophies on a large scale over a long period of time.

It probably safe to say other Communist leaders may learned some of his missteps.

The communism atheists tried remove religion from society but it did not work.

They realized it was stupid to try to get rid of religion.

 

[HEATHEN]

What are your beliefs?

I am agnostic.

 

[360waves]

I am agnostic.

Smooth, a lot of my homies are agnostic.
So are you governed and guided by your own personal moral compass?

 

[360waves]

No it reinforces the stronghold men have on the sexuality and lives of women in the Muslim community. Why do you think women who are raped get punished by stoning and death, yet the men are applauded for buying 12 year old sex slaves.  It's always been about controlling women's bodies.

They wouldnt be following the hadith, sunnah and quran accordingly. Many people have a skewed view on islam. For example so many people praise Saddam hussein not knowing he had a quran written in blood. That is blasphemous and not acceptable but people do things that aren't acceptable.

A man can have 4 wives, no more. Back in 500 AD when wars and battles went on a majority of men would die leaving off the elderly women and children. So yes it is allowable to have a "slave" girl but no more than 4. A slave then was treated with integrity, fairness and often lived with the family and was treated like a family member.
Now i cant say the same. Yes atrocities are happening but that is a reflection on the skewed vision of these people rather than islam

Its funny how you say controlling womens bodies. So many young girls here have to look a certain way, dress like this, have this type of maekup. Women here are constantly reminded that beauty is their number 1 quality. Over sexualized community. Women here are free to do whatever and they are liberated which is fantastic, but why are there so many cases of abuse, Rape, and mistreatment here for women?

 

[HEATHEN]

What you talking about?
Where am I mincing your words?

Where am I slandering as you've said in a later post?

Do you realize where Communism came from?

Do you realize that the Cuban revolution came after Stalin's attempted removal of religion?

So Castro had a general idea of what he couldn't do in regards to religion?

You say Stalin wasn't the face of communism... as if there's one face to any form of government.

Stalin was the first leader able to practice the Communist philosophies on a large scale over a long period of time.

It probably safe to say other Communist leaders may learned some of his missteps.

The communism atheists tried remove religion from society but it did not work.

They realized it was stupid to try to get rid of religion.

By me saying that religion wouldn't be "this widespread" without conquest, it doesn't insinuate that I believe that religion is "only" spread through force or conquest.


That's how you're mincing my words.


Again stop misrepresenting my thoughts to prop up your nonsense. Your slander of atheists is transparent with your line of questioning, loaded and condescending from the get go.


I absolutely know where communism came from, and it didn't come from Joseph Stalin. It was Karl Marx who is the father of MODERN communism but even still, we see today that communism necessarily correlate with atheism. To lump them together is to paint with an awfully broad brush.


Even Marx conceded that primitive man, hunter-gather societies had communist ideals.


Plato ruminated on a classless society.


Look up the Mazdak movement in 5th century Persia.


Did you know that there is a RELIGIOUS communism?


The Diggers were a protestant communist movement, in 17th century England.


No not every communist nation gleaned ideas from Stalin, stop trying to force that angle into the discussion. It's simply not true. You can throw all the half-baked assertions you want together, but they will not give your argument any credence.


Communism =/= atheism, period.

 

[HEATHEN]

Smooth, a lot of my homies are agnostic.
So are you governed and guided by your own personal moral compass?

Yes.

 

[360waves]

LOL so you think there's more cases of rape, abuse and mistreatment of women in the U.S.? That's the most delusional sh$$ I've ever heard in my life. The only difference is women are actually allowed to complain here and have a voice. In Islam 11 year old girls just get raped left and right because they are nothing more than property. There's no hotline these women can call when they get abused by their husbands. I would never wish any of that on my sisters. Hypocritically the women have to remain sexually demur while the men are out there smashing sex slaves and sheep without consequence. Miss me with that nonsense.


That's like when Muslims claim there are so many gays in the West cause they don't worship Allah. Idiots don't realize there are just as many gay people in Muslim countries, they just don't want to be tortured and killed. No matter how you cut it, Islam is evil. I want to raise my daughter in  country where she can wear whatever she wants, slee whoever she wants, go to school etc without being stoned to death.

There are a lot of cases that go unreported so yes. A lot of women are sexually abused in america. An 80 year old lady just got raped here in milwaukee and she waited 3 hours for police to come and giver her aid. It happens everywhere. Yes it is sad that people in some muslim countries do not have an outlet to get help but that has nothing to do with islam. That has everything to do with their skewed beliefs. The best community is the community that treats its women the best.

There are men here in america that die from having sex with horses, and farm animals. Some women sleep with dogs. Point is that theres atrocious behavior everywhere. Islam is not evil at all, if anything it is peace. I do not care for gays and many Muslims shouldn't either. Let them do what they want while we do what we want.

I want the best for my future daughter, I hope I raise her with morals to dress appropriately, She isnt a sexual object to be displayed to the savages out there. lol at you saying she can sleep with whoever. im done.

HAHA 60 years ago I wouldn't be able to drink from the same fountain as white people. my people were hung from a damn tree. Great country

 

[sea manup]

 

LOL so you think there's more cases of rape, abuse and mistreatment of women in the U.S.? That's the most delusional sh$$ I've ever heard in my life. The only difference is women are actually allowed to complain here and have a voice. In Islam 11 year old girls just get raped left and right because they are nothing more than property. There's no hotline these women can call when they get abused by their husbands. I would never wish any of that on my sisters. Hypocritically the women have to remain sexually demur while the men are out there smashing sex slaves and sheep without consequence. Miss me with that nonsense.


That's like when Muslims claim there are so many gays in the West cause they don't worship Allah. Idiots don't realize there are just as many gay people in Muslim countries, they just don't want to be tortured and killed. No matter how you cut it, Islam is evil. I want to raise my daughter in  country where she can wear whatever she wants, slee whoever she wants, go to school etc without being stoned to death.

I want the best for my future daughter, I hope I raise her with morals to dress appropriately, She isnt a sexual object to be displayed to the savages out there. lol at you saying she can sleep with whoever. im done.
 

would you let your child sleep with whoever if he was a boy? 

 

[360waves]

would you let your child sleep with whoever if he was a boy? 

No, he isnt a sexual object either. He will be raised to be a man, i just hope he acts like one.

 

[Master Zik]

The atheists are down for the gays now

Ok so instead of addressing what I said mock the notion that atheists are against discrimination and persecution.

Lets ignore that there are many homosexuals that are in fact atheists.

Like communism atheist countries weren't severely homophobia too

All you've established is that Stalin was an atheist while he was ruling not that every Russian or every person behind the iron curtain renounced their religion once Stalin came in to power. You've yet to establish Russia under Stalin as a nation filled with atheists.

I don't know why you're pretending like homophobia was in with all atheists.

That's your problem. Athiests aren't like the religious. They have their own ideas and philosophies. There isn't a list of things they all agree on. Just one. Unlike the religious.

But I see you're even willing to be dismissive of real world injustices for the sake of your shifting the blame tactics to make up for poor argument skills.

Many homosexuals are Christian too...whats your point?

My point is you can not dismiss that. You can't just say so what and mention homosexuals are Christians too. That's irrelevant.

When I bring Putin oppressing the LBGT community and supporting that with a religious stance you don't get to mock that especially if it's cuz you have a poor understanding of Stalin and his reign as it regards atheism. Your twisted view on what atheism is will just get continually exposed.

Both, atheists and the religious have both persecuted homosexuals.

The difference being the religious have a holy text telling them that homosexuality is wrong and a sin and that homosexuals should be punished.

If an atheist does that it's because they wanted to do that for their reasons. They don't blame it on a made up deity that told them homosexuals deserve to be persecuted.

Do you see the difference yet?

Oh all the atheists don't agree on ideas and philosophies?

No they don't. All it takes to be an atheist is to not believe in GOD. Nothing more.

There's no book we follow. We don't all embrace communism. There is no one representative of atheism. If one atheist does something for some reason it doesn't reflect on all atheists. That's not the same as a religious person doing something in the name of their religion because that is what their religion tells them to do.

That's the difference.

But some are foolish enough to believe the majority of Christians practice the zealous form?

Who are you talking about? Who said the majority of Christians practice the zealous form of their religion? Who?

Seems you just want to ignore the fact that many (not the majority) of Christians do practice that.

Or that every Muslim is down for Jihad?

When has any atheist ever said "every Muslim is down for Jihad"?????????? When or where have you seen an atheist say that. These are just ridiculous accusations on your behalf. Saying a whole lot of nothing.

What is wrong with your mind that you're making these things up? You have been the only one in here talking in absolutes, throwing around the words every and majority. You've been doing it for your side and you've had the nerve to do it for the opposing side as if we're this one united group you get to just squeeze together in this one category because you can't accept it's an individual thing for each person. Not some mass religion.

Can't you grasp that concept?

If an atheist does something bad it's cuz they wanted to. Not like a theist who can blame/accredit their GOD or some holy text. There is no being or text you can find that all "bad atheists" read/listen to in order to justify heinous acts. However, there is something like that for theists.

Oh the common sense and logic that helps you know about the unknown

No. It's the opposite of that. It's the common sense and logic that doesn't let one assume they do know about the unknown.

Nobody in here saying they're atheist has claimed they know about the unknown. Only you have consistently and foolishly assumed that and accused ppl of having that stance. You'd be better off not being so stubborn.

So we mention some atheists are homosexuals but when its mentioned that some homosexuals are Christians its irrelevant.

There is no we. I mentioned it because of what you said when you tried to mock the fact that the LBGT community is being persecuted and oppressed in Russia.

You didn't seriously address it. You used deflection. You brought up the irrelevant fact that some homosexuals are Christians. That has nothing to do with what I said.

it was irrelevant when YOU brought it the first time.

Are you slow? You seriously don't know why I brought it up do you?

You still have yet to address what I've said.

Have you ever thought maybe the Christians who persecuted certain groups like gays did it, because they personally wanted to

Not when they use the bible to back up why they're doing what they're doing.

It says it in the bible, same with other holy texts. They follow it.

This is no different than you trying to say being atheist means you don't know right from wrong.

You act every believer practices all the stuff in their religious texts

No I don't. You're being disingenuous. I asked about specific believers. You never directly address it. Instead you deflect and bring up what one or two atheists have done. You refuse to see the difference between the two. You never answer the question or directly address what I said. Instead you deflect and try to pretend it doesn't matter.

It's not working.

Not once did I say every believer but like I said you keep talking in absolutes and are pretending the ppl you're talking to are as well. I am not. Get that through your head.

Believers don't mindlessly follow all the religious texts because they have to.

This is a general statement that is false.

Some believers do this.

I specifically asked you about fundamentalists when you said believers don't do this. You just dodged the question and ignored it. Then had the nerve to ask me a question instead.

We talked about it before about saying I don't know so if you really have no argument you should just say so.

The ones who are commit "immoral" acts do it because they want to and they pick and choose parts of the religious text as an excuse.

Or does the parts of the religious texts that say to do that motivate them to do those things?

The no universal texts for all the religions together.

Never said there were.

Different religions have different teachings.

Never said they didn't.

I asked about a specific group and you dodged again.

When one religious zealot does something bad, it doesn't reflect on rest of the religion either.

Not when it's the religious text that tells the zealot to do it. Also there isn't just one religious zealot.

But If atheists want to pretend like an heinous act is reflection people on all religious people

There is no pretending going on here.

Homosexuality isn't accepted by many religions.

There are still some countries that imprison, torture and kill members of the LBGT community because of the religion they believe in. It's their religion that says so.

then I think its fair to point out as heinous acts by atheists too.

It has nothing to do with fairness. That's just you trying to share the blame instead of being accountable.

Making things up?.....You must not know to read if you haven't read the blanket statements about Christians and Muslims. Where was your fake outrage then?

Show me where anyone said all Muslims or all Christians do ____ in this thread. Show me where these blanket statements are.

Seems you're arguing against and about ppl that aren't even here to defend themselves and pretending like I'm arguing for them.

Yes if you're believing that God doesn't exist...you are believing to know something about the unknown

That's not how beliefs work.

You're not believing you know or don't know something. Belief is not about knowledge.

If I wanted to say I know something doesn't exist I'd say that. Go look up the word belief real quick, you're not gonna find that it means to know something or not.

You have a poor grasp of these words. I see now why you make such little sense.

 

[360waves]

Let's not even get started on the plunder the Arab world has had on Africa :x .

http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/09122001.htm

http://www.africanholocaust.net/news_ah/arabslavetrade.htm


Basically, the Arab world is what America was 200 years ago. There are still African slaves owned by Arab slave owners today. Before you condemn European colonialism, you might wanna educate yourself on the role the Arab world played. It was ugly.:x


As for my daughter it is not her duty to make sure men aren't bloody savages. It's typical Arab misogyny to place the blame on the victim. Woman gets raped...it's because she wasn't wearing a sheet over her head. 12 year old gets raped, well she shouldn't have gone to school to get an education. Instead of making men take responsibility Islam punishes the victim. What people call rape here, people in the Arab world just call sex. There's no such thing as "rape" to fundamentalists. People out there are still living in the damn dark ages.


As for gays, you pretend not to care but your statement is part of the problem. All you said is, let them be gay just not in this country. So gays who were born in those lands aren't entitled to the same right to dignity and safety as everyone else? They live in the closet because of fear of being hung at the gallows in front of spectators.


EVIL INCARNATE. Islam is the poster boy for sexual VIOLENCE.

Islam has never advocated or used its teachings to justify slavery in no way shape or form. Racism is ignorance. As for the people that that did that, that is wrong there is no denying that. You cant blame slavery on islam. Islam doesnt justify it.

I dont know how many times I have to say this, but islam doesn't condone rape of any kind. If you had more knowledge on it then you would know that it is unacceptable.

As for gays please do not put words in my mouth. I clearly said let them be gay. I never said "not in this country" please try to stick with what I say and not add things. Gays and Muslims can live harmoniously. If i had a gay neighbor I would treat him like a human being! What he./ she doesn't effect my life or my religion.

You have your beliefs and I have mine

 

[360waves]

Post as many links as you want. Its the reflection on the people and their culture NOT ISLAM. 500 AD the prophet tried to eradicate racism in the religion but like many failed to do so with their skewed beliefs.

 

[360waves]

If someone made the same excuse for European colonialism you'd be heated, delusional muslim is delusional.


Arabs enslaved the SH out of Africans

Using christianity to justify it. but i highly doubt the true saying. teachings of christianity would allow it. skewed vision