Carrer/Work Politics: VOL. Does a CFA change things? Post College Life NO GROWTH?

[runningfishy]

Here’s my situation and background:

I’m currently part of a staff at a local financial institution.  I have been there for about 4 years and work closely w/ investments.  In the time that I’ve been there, there has been a big restructuring which brought on a new department head (internally).

The past year, I had the opportunity to shadow under a portfolio manager within the department.  He took me under the wing and had a lot of talk w/ me regarding my career.  It was more than the typical work talk.  He gave me opportunities w/ projects and helped foster my growth.  Unfortunately a turn of events disbanded the portfolio manager’s sub-section, including him, leaving 2 vacancies.  The work load was then distributed to the rest of the department and I got a portion of the operational work.  To be fair, I had minimal training but managed to complete my timely tasks week after week.

As our department head hunted for potential candidates, I wondered why I was never approached in getting a shot at the vacant position.  Instead, I found out discreetly that the department head was interviewing a guy from her prior department.  Just this week, I found out that he was going to join our department and be apart of the staff for investments.  To my disliking, I felt like I was never given a shot, never approached, nor spoken to about the current situation.  Oddly, I could not understand why they would hire a ‘staff’ member first as opposed to the portfolio manager.  I guess I was puzzled.  I didn’t think I had the qualifications, yet I felt like if the manager was still here, I would have had a very strong bid for the position.  It was 2+ months of hell for the staff & team, as deadlines had to be met. 

I had thought I would have gotten a shot, or given an opportunity to grow as I've been there quite a long time, and I know a portion of the work.  I guess I should've spoken up, but at the same time I was mis-led into the situation.  Maybe, I was too reserved for my own good.  I was invited to lunch a few times w/ the dept head after the vacancies, but the lunch never came to be - they were never scheduled, nor was there any follow through.  On the back end, I eventually found out why.  Those lunches were done in secret w/ the ex-member of her ex-department.

 Am I under qualified, too reserved, or just not on the dept head’s A-List?  I know the operations a lot better, and could not imagine how or why I was not given a shot.  The only possible explanation I could think of is because the other guy was on his path of taking the CFA.  Perhaps, him being on her A-LIST had something to do with it.

 I cannot help but feel like I should re-evaluate my career, and growth opportunities.  I want to take the CFA, and I want to find something else, but the job opportunities are extremely limited in this sector.  Or would pursuing a Master’s degree mean anything?  I gather that a CFA w/ experience is a much better path (right now).  Still, w/ the way things are going, I do not want to remain here, but can do nothing but clench my teeth and work.  I feel like Matt Forte, and I do not want to pull a Desean Jackson.

Needless to say, I feel like I deserve a raise, and deserve more.  Or am I really just not good yet?!   In the end, one has to juggle between a 'career' and 'job'.  I rather be in the field of my career as oppossed to taking a 180 to get a better pay.  I don't know..

Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[acemaster193]

 Tough one. I'm tuning in as I'm looking into getting in the Finance field myself. Were you a Finance major, how did you break into this field/job specifically? Looks like you have some personal evaluation to undergo for now. I'm sure there's other companies you can look into and do similar/meaningful work.

 

[oidreez]

i dont think anyone on here can tell you why you weren't talked to about the position.

 

[runningfishy]

Originally Posted by AceMaster193

 Tough one. I'm tuning in as I'm looking into getting in the Finance field myself. Were you a Finance major, how did you break into this field/job specifically? Looks like you have some personal evaluation to undergo for now. I'm sure there's other companies you can look into and do similar/meaningful work.

Yeah.

At the time, my focus was primarily real estate, and I wanted to get into property management and that type of thing. But that sector collapsed as you might recall.  I had also interned as an appraiser at the time.  Right now, I want to focus on my career, and nothing will propel it further aside from a CFA.  Then again, I know a lot of people that pass the CFA, know nothing and are unemployed.

I feel sour and bitter a bit, to say the least, I do not like the way our dept. is being lead.  I've seen my share of what a good/bad leader to be.  At the bare minimum I have benefits and wages.  Still, I feel like I want more.

 

[onthenephs]

You didn't apply for position, or talk with dept head about position. Where is the initiative? The lack of it relates to your lack of self confidence, hence feeling under  qualified.  Not much the department head can do. 

1. You should have taken the initiative. 

 

[iceberg slim]

Get the CFA. Will only benefit you in the future.

 

[runningfishy]

Originally Posted by oidreez

i dont think anyone on here can tell you why you weren't talked to about the position.

True.  Like I said, I feel like Matt Forte, I've proven my self through hard work, proven my dedication and was on the right path.  Yet, I'm not given a look at, in the grand scheme of things.  I get no bonuses, raises, and that bothers me.  What bothers me is the illusional seniority and being "FRONT RAN" by some other %## kissing foolio.   I cannot help but to sit back and feel like I'm WAITING for him to FAIL.  LOL (i know it's evil of me).  Down the road, I cannot see myself here too long if these types of decisions are being made.  But I cannot just 'QUIT' in times like these.

My only other logic would be that if I had shifted within our dept, they'd want someone to fill my position.  Afterall, we are all in the same dept, just in diff't sub-sections.

  

 

[runningfishy]

Originally Posted by OnTheNephs

You didn't apply for position, or talk with dept head about position. Where is the initiative? The lack of it relates to your lack of self confidence, hence feeling under  qualified.  Not much the department head can do. 

1. You should have taken the initiative. 

I understand what you're saying, but perhaps, that's what I lacked.

I know what 'growth' development means and I can feel the difference between having someone that fosters your growth, as opposed to one that plays favoritism and caps you.  This is what bothers me.

We had scheduled lunch a few times through out the year to talk about OPPORTUNITIES, before any of this occurred, but it NEVER HAPPENED.  Due to the recent chain of events, I found out that she did have lunch w/ her ex-staff from her ex-dept.  That really shot me down.  That sent me a clear message in terms of where I stood.

It's hard to really explain it all, but I understand I cannot grow in an environment where the DEPT HEAD won't give you a shot, despite what your immediate managers do for you.

 

[mojodmonky1]

OP, here is my uneducated opinion on the matter.

I think you getting looked over for the position had to do with a couple of issues, but most importantly you not being on the "A-list" of your dept head.

Now, I dont mean that the dept head is trying to hold you back. I think it is natural for someone to look within their own network to fill an opening, because then they know what they are getting. If I could use my wifes recent experiences as an example.

She recently took on a new account and needed to fill out a new team to work on the account. HR gave her a stack of potential applicants to review, but she also reached out on her own to people she had worked with at past jobs to see if they were interested in the openings. It wasnt that she was necesarily playing favorites (her main concern was putting together a competent team that was capable of doing the work), but by reaching out to those she had worked with, she knew what she was getting. Its not that the the new applicants were bad, its just that... well... the devil you know is better than the devil you dont. Sometimes it is difficult to get a good read on a person with just resumes, interviews, or even limited work experience together. By going with someone within your own network, you have a pretty good idea of what you are getting.

Second thing. I think the CFA also had something to do with it. If this kid is actively pursuing his CFA and you are not (or werent at that time), that kid has more potential upside for upward movement than you do. All other things constant, it just makes him a more appealing candidate.

 

[hankmoody]

When you type pursuing the CFA, does you mean the other person has passed a level or two? If so, that'd be all I need to know.

 

[runningfishy]

Originally Posted by Mojodmonky1

OP, here is my uneducated opinion on the matter.

I think you getting looked over for the position had to do with a couple of issues, but most importantly you not being on the "A-list" of your dept head.

Now, I dont mean that the dept head is trying to hold you back. I think it is natural for someone to look within their own network to fill an opening, because then they know what they are getting. If I could use my wifes recent experiences as an example.

She recently took on a new account and needed to fill out a new team to work on the account. HR gave her a stack of potential applicants to review, but she also reached out on her own to people she had worked with at past jobs to see if they were interested in the openings. It wasnt that she was necesarily playing favorites (her main concern was putting together a competent team that was capable of doing the work), but by reaching out to those she had worked with, she knew what she was getting. Its not that the the new applicants were bad, its just that... well... the devil you know is better than the devil you dont. Sometimes it is difficult to get a good read on a person with just resumes, interviews, or even limited work experience together. By going with someone within your own network, you have a pretty good idea of what you are getting.

Second thing. I think the CFA also had something to do with it. If this kid is actively pursuing his CFA and you are not (or werent at that time), that kid has more potential upside for upward movement than you do. All other things constant, it just makes him a more appealing candidate.

Thanks.

The guy was an ex-staff member of her ex-dept.  Everything was INTERNAL.  But in terms of immediate approach and growth, I thought I was next in line.  I had NO CLUE the position was being posted, what was going on.  I had to find out 'secretly' by rumors what was happening.  Tell me if this wasn't catered!!!

I can say w/o hesitation that I would have gotten the position had the portfolio manager still been here.  No doubts whatsoever of myself. 

But this just motivates me to get something higher, maybe a CFA, but then I'm juggling between many decisions.  Maybe a change of the working environment, study abroad, or something like that. 

Thanks NT

 

[runningfishy]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

When you type pursuing the CFA, does you mean the other person has passed a level or two? If so, that'd be all I need to know.

I have not talked to him, but heard just Level 1.  I know the rest of the examination to be challenging.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Did you take courses, or self-study?
  

 

[hankmoody]

Nah, I'm not in that field. I just know the exam is tough. 1 in 10 pass all 3 right? Getting through a phase or two is a big plus in my eyes.

 

[mojodmonky1]

Originally Posted by RunningFishy

Thanks.

The guy was an ex-staff member of her ex-dept.  Everything was INTERNAL.  But in terms of immediate approach and growth, I thought I was next in line.  I had NO CLUE the position was being posted, what was going on.  I had to find out 'secretly' by rumors what was happening.  Tell me if this wasn't catered!!!

I can say w/o hesitation that I would have gotten the position had the portfolio manager still been here.  No doubts whatsoever of myself. 

But this just motivates me to get something higher, maybe a CFA, but then I'm juggling between many decisions.  Maybe a change of the working environment, study abroad, or something like that. 

Thanks NT

Speaks to my point.  The portfolio manager worked with you directly and knew what you were capable of whereas the dept head does not (or atleast i'm assuming thats the case).  It sucks, but that is just how the game works.

True. 

Originally Posted by RunningFishy

Like I said, I feel like Matt Forte, I've proven my self through hard work, proven my dedication and was on the right path.  Yet, I'm not given a look at, in the grand scheme of things.  I get no bonuses, raises, and that bothers me.  What bothers me is the illusional seniority and being "FRONT RAN" by some other %## kissing foolio.   I cannot help but to sit back and feel like I'm WAITING for him to FAIL.  LOL (i know it's evil of me).  Down the road, I cannot see myself here too long if these types of decisions are being made.  But I cannot just 'QUIT' in times like these.

My only other logic would be that if I had shifted within our dept, they'd want someone to fill my position.  Afterall, we are all in the same dept, just in diff't sub-sections.
  

From my limited experience (I've been blessed to work for a small company the last 8 years so I havent had to deal with much in terms of corporate office politics), I've seen that these foolios rarely fall flat on their face.  The reason?  They got where they are because they are good at PLAYING THE GAME.

One of the biggest reasons why I love being at my company so much is because its small enough where you cant hide.  What I mean is, when I work hard, my work ethic and productivity get noticed.  I dont have 8 different layers of bosses/supervisors, who can all cherrypick my work and take credit for it.  In bigger corporate settings with a vertical manangement structure, there are way too many layers/levels that your work/output passes through, and thus, more opportunities for people to take credit for it (or on the flipside... for the originator of the work/output to go unnoticed by those at the top).

 

[runningfishy]

Originally Posted by Mojodmonky1

Originally Posted by RunningFishy

Thanks.

The guy was an ex-staff member of her ex-dept.  Everything was INTERNAL.  But in terms of immediate approach and growth, I thought I was next in line.  I had NO CLUE the position was being posted, what was going on.  I had to find out 'secretly' by rumors what was happening.  Tell me if this wasn't catered!!!

I can say w/o hesitation that I would have gotten the position had the portfolio manager still been here.  No doubts whatsoever of myself. 

But this just motivates me to get something higher, maybe a CFA, but then I'm juggling between many decisions.  Maybe a change of the working environment, study abroad, or something like that. 

Thanks NT

Speaks to my point.  The portfolio manager worked with you directly and knew what you were capable of whereas the dept head does not (or atleast i'm assuming thats the case).  It sucks, but that is just how the game works.

True. 

Originally Posted by RunningFishy

Like I said, I feel like Matt Forte, I've proven my self through hard work, proven my dedication and was on the right path.  Yet, I'm not given a look at, in the grand scheme of things.  I get no bonuses, raises, and that bothers me.  What bothers me is the illusional seniority and being "FRONT RAN" by some other %## kissing foolio.   I cannot help but to sit back and feel like I'm WAITING for him to FAIL.  LOL (i know it's evil of me).  Down the road, I cannot see myself here too long if these types of decisions are being made.  But I cannot just 'QUIT' in times like these.

My only other logic would be that if I had shifted within our dept, they'd want someone to fill my position.  Afterall, we are all in the same dept, just in diff't sub-sections.
  

From my limited experience (I've been blessed to work for a small company the last 8 years so I havent had to deal with much in terms of corporate office politics), I've seen that these foolios rarely fall flat on their face.  The reason?  They got where they are because they are good at PLAYING THE GAME.

One of the biggest reasons why I love being at my company so much is because its small enough where you cant hide.  What I mean is, when I work hard, my work ethic and productivity get noticed.  I dont have 8 different layers of bosses/supervisors, who can all cherrypick my work and take credit for it.  In bigger corporate settings with a vertical manangement structure, there are way too many layers/levels that your work/output passes through, and thus, more opportunities for people to take credit for it (or on the flipside... for the originator of the work/output to go unnoticed by those at the top).

Thanks Sir.  Totally agree...

I always believed and still do that working hard is the purest structure one can have for themselves.  We'll see what happens..

 

[mojodmonky1]

Originally Posted by RunningFishy


I always believed and still do that working hard is the purest structure one can have for themselves.  We'll see what happens..

Hate to sound too cynical, but I think that playing the game is more important than just working hard.

I harp on my wife about it all the time, because she is like you.  She hates to play the game, fake kiss butt to upper mgmt, and stuff like that.  She just wants to work hard and let her work speak for herself.  I feel that she has been overlooked for promotions and that other less qualified people have been hired over her because they played the game and she didnt.

  

 

[runningfishy]

Originally Posted by Mojodmonky1

Originally Posted by RunningFishy


I always believed and still do that working hard is the purest structure one can have for themselves.  We'll see what happens..

Hate to sound too cynical, but I think that playing the game is more important than just working hard.

I harp on my wife about it all the time, because she is like you.  She hates to play the game, fake kiss butt to upper mgmt, and stuff like that.  She just wants to work hard and let her work speak for herself.  I feel that she has been overlooked for promotions and that other less qualified people have been hired over her because they played the game and she didnt.

  

True.  What specifically do you mean in your wife's case?  What can you really do to help her?  I'm sure your wife's hard work doesn't go un-noticed, but that's where a bad manager and a bad company turns blind to 'strong' assets.  Like you've said, the corporate structure relies on the little things.  When a company loses that, everything will collapse.

I haven't been in the real world THAT LONG, but I would say that my journey thus far has given me a glimpse of reality.  I've seen good & bad.  I've been through restructuring, layoffs, etc.  Still, I've learned to always be humble, learned to always pay your dues, respect those around you.  I've had possibly just 2 mentors that really took the time to talk to me, and I've found those talks to be invaluable!!  To this day, I am just waiting for my shot.  However, I still feel like I have a bit more to go.  I've been told by one of them to 'fake' it, and I guess this is my challenge.

I don't kiss-butt and I don't care who it is.  I do greet and respect my vertical superiors, but I'll never do the kiss-butt thing.  During holidays, I make sure I give gifts to those whom I really appreciate, and I write a small message to genuinely thank them.  I've learned to not give a shet about what my horizontal peers think, but I think I know how to play the game in honest, old school fashion as well.

 

[chickhien]

go for the CFA if you want to stay in that industry. but you need to get your application in before feb 15, but you should be studying about 15 to 20 hrs per week starting jan 1. you have to have a valid passport as well. level 1 is offered june and december, level 2 and level 3 are only offered in the summer. so in other words, you get 2 shots to pass level 1 in 2012, one shot in 2013 to pass level 2, and one shot to pass level 3 in 2014.

i also think it wouldnt hurt to get a master's degree in there if you're motivated enough, like an mba. it really depends on what you want to do with the degree or charter.

also, are you still in contact with your old portfolio manager? sounded like yall had a pretty good professional relationship. stay in touch and ask him/her if they can be a mentor. if they sound too busy, just insist you'll be a low maintenance mentee, such as if you have a question you'll send an email and they can respond whenever they have time.

good luck

 

[runningfishy]

Originally Posted by chickhien

go for the CFA if you want to stay in that industry. but you need to get your application in before feb 15, but you should be studying about 15 to 20 hrs per week starting jan 1. you have to have a valid passport as well. level 1 is offered june and december, level 2 and level 3 are only offered in the summer. so in other words, you get 2 shots to pass level 1 in 2012, one shot in 2013 to pass level 2, and one shot to pass level 3 in 2014.

i also think it wouldnt hurt to get a master's degree in there if you're motivated enough, like an mba. it really depends on what you want to do with the degree or charter.

also, are you still in contact with your old portfolio manager? sounded like yall had a pretty good professional relationship. stay in touch and ask him/her if they can be a mentor. if they sound too busy, just insist you'll be a low maintenance mentee, such as if you have a question you'll send an email and they can respond whenever they have time.

good luck

Do you know of the approach towards the CFA?  Do you know of schools offering courses?  I plan on checking it out at the university level, but hadn't had the time.  However, I want to ensure that my profession, experience and certification go hand in hand.  I'd hate to dedicate the time, if I'm going to end up doing something else.

I have the portfolio managers' contact and he was the 1st one that came out and said he'd be my reference.  At one point, he said he'd personally pay for my career development courses as the company would not.



Thanks

 

[mojodmonky1]

Originally Posted by RunningFishy

Originally Posted by Mojodmonky1

Originally Posted by RunningFishy


I always believed and still do that working hard is the purest structure one can have for themselves.  We'll see what happens..

Hate to sound too cynical, but I think that playing the game is more important than just working hard.

I harp on my wife about it all the time, because she is like you.  She hates to play the game, fake kiss butt to upper mgmt, and stuff like that.  She just wants to work hard and let her work speak for herself.  I feel that she has been overlooked for promotions and that other less qualified people have been hired over her because they played the game and she didnt.

  

True.  What specifically do you mean in your wife's case?  What can you really do to help her?  I'm sure your wife's hard work doesn't go un-noticed, but that's where a bad manager and a bad company turns blind to 'strong' assets.  Like you've said, the corporate structure relies on the little things.  When a company loses that, everything will collapse.

I haven't been in the real world THAT LONG, but I would say that my journey thus far has given me a glimpse of reality.  I've seen good & bad.  I've been through restructuring, layoffs, etc.  Still, I've learned to always be humble, learned to always pay your dues, respect those around you.  I've had possibly just 2 mentors that really took the time to talk to me, and I've found those talks to be invaluable!!  To this day, I am just waiting for my shot.  However, I still feel like I have a bit more to go.  I've been told by one of them to 'fake' it, and I guess this is my challenge.

I don't kiss-butt and I don't care who it is.  I do greet and respect my vertical superiors, but I'll never do the kiss-butt thing.  During holidays, I make sure I give gifts to those whom I really appreciate, and I write a small message to genuinely thank them.  I've learned to not give a shet about what my horizontal peers think, but I think I know how to play the game in honest, old school fashion as well.

without boring you with too many details (which is hard since i ramble a lot)

my wife doesnt like to go to after hours activities like happy hours and dinners especially if its with a buncha people she doesnt care to be around (even if they are upper mgmt).  She just hates having to pretend to be interested, pretend to like people she doesnt like, etc... etc...  I feel that this has hindered her progress in creating and nurturing personal relationships with decision makers who can help her with her career advancement.  to her, its a matter of principle.  even though she knows these people can help her career, she doesnt want to have to fake a relationship with them (mostly because they have certain attributes like "douchebaggery" that she just doesnt jive with).  to her, its not worth it to be fake friends with people who she believes are not genuine people. 

so anyways, both she and i believe that she was overlooked for a good promotion because she did not have a strong personal relationship with the decision maker(s).  The position was one that was one level above hers, and would effectively be her direct supervisor overseeing the entire account.  She believed that she had exhibited her ability to handle the work and oversee the team and wanted to get promoted into that spot (so they could then hire someone to replace her old spot).  Instead, they hired another person from the outside who was completely inept, but had a good personal relationship with one of the higher ups.  how did my wife know that this guy was completely inept?  the person they ended up hiring was her first boss at her first job in the industry right out of college.  she worked under this guy for 2 yrs and witnessed first hand how he basically got by, by stealing credit for the work of his subordinates.  at that time my wife was an entry level assistant, so she just didnt know any better.  

this guy that got the job was your typical "game player".  by all accounts he was completely useless.  the only reason the account ran well was because my wife was busting her butt doing all the work while this guy took credit for it.  this was obviously taking a toll on her as she was constantly working super long hours trying to do her work and the work of her direct supervisor (since he was too inept to do it himself).  i told her that she needed to just let this guy fail on his own and expose him, but she wouldnt do it.  for one, it would reflect poorly on her because if the team fails (even if its due to the failures of the team leader alone) everyone looks bad.  secondly, it wasnt fair to her client who deserved the full effort that they were paying for.

thankfully, fate has a strange way of rewarding those who are most deserving (well sometimes).  right around the time the work related stress was reaching a boiling point, there was a regime change in the company.  there was a lot of turnover at the upper mgmt level including a new President and new Director of the west coast division (that my wifes office is part of).  One of the new faces that came over during this regime change was my wifes old boss from her last company who she had a great relationship with.  As it was, the old boss had a GREAT relationship with the new regime (with whom she came over).  On top of that, her old boss was a masterful gameplayer in her own right, as was evidenced by her close ties with the executives.  Old boss was aware of my wife's current situation and immediately started making a play to have my wife transfer over to work with her.  Once my wife left her old account, it inevitably failed now that the inept supervisor didnt have my wife to lean on as a crutch.  Inept guy was terminated once they lost the account, and my wife is in a much better place. 

 

[runningfishy]

Originally Posted by Mojodmonky1

Originally Posted by RunningFishy

Originally Posted by Mojodmonky1

Hate to sound too cynical, but I think that playing the game is more important than just working hard.

I harp on my wife about it all the time, because she is like you.  She hates to play the game, fake kiss butt to upper mgmt, and stuff like that.  She just wants to work hard and let her work speak for herself.  I feel that she has been overlooked for promotions and that other less qualified people have been hired over her because they played the game and she didnt.

  

True.  What specifically do you mean in your wife's case?  What can you really do to help her?  I'm sure your wife's hard work doesn't go un-noticed, but that's where a bad manager and a bad company turns blind to 'strong' assets.  Like you've said, the corporate structure relies on the little things.  When a company loses that, everything will collapse.

I haven't been in the real world THAT LONG, but I would say that my journey thus far has given me a glimpse of reality.  I've seen good & bad.  I've been through restructuring, layoffs, etc.  Still, I've learned to always be humble, learned to always pay your dues, respect those around you.  I've had possibly just 2 mentors that really took the time to talk to me, and I've found those talks to be invaluable!!  To this day, I am just waiting for my shot.  However, I still feel like I have a bit more to go.  I've been told by one of them to 'fake' it, and I guess this is my challenge.

I don't kiss-butt and I don't care who it is.  I do greet and respect my vertical superiors, but I'll never do the kiss-butt thing.  During holidays, I make sure I give gifts to those whom I really appreciate, and I write a small message to genuinely thank them.  I've learned to not give a shet about what my horizontal peers think, but I think I know how to play the game in honest, old school fashion as well.

without boring you with too many details (which is hard since i ramble a lot)

my wife doesnt like to go to after hours activities like happy hours and dinners especially if its with a buncha people she doesnt care to be around (even if they are upper mgmt).  She just hates having to pretend to be interested, pretend to like people she doesnt like, etc... etc...  I feel that this has hindered her progress in creating and nurturing personal relationships with decision makers who can help her with her career advancement.  to her, its a matter of principle.  even though she knows these people can help her career, she doesnt want to have to fake a relationship with them (mostly because they have certain attributes like "douchebaggery" that she just doesnt jive with).  to her, its not worth it to be fake friends with people who she believes are not genuine people. 

so anyways, both she and i believe that she was overlooked for a good promotion because she did not have a strong personal relationship with the decision maker(s).  The position was one that was one level above hers, and would effectively be her direct supervisor overseeing the entire account.  She believed that she had exhibited her ability to handle the work and oversee the team and wanted to get promoted into that spot (so they could then hire someone to replace her old spot).  Instead, they hired another person from the outside who was completely inept, but had a good personal relationship with one of the higher ups.  how did my wife know that this guy was completely inept?  the person they ended up hiring was her first boss at her first job in the industry right out of college.  she worked under this guy for 2 yrs and witnessed first hand how he basically got by, by stealing credit for the work of his subordinates.  at that time my wife was an entry level assistant, so she just didnt know any better.  

this guy that got the job was your typical "game player".  by all accounts he was completely useless.  the only reason the account ran well was because my wife was busting her butt doing all the work while this guy took credit for it.  this was obviously taking a toll on her as she was constantly working super long hours trying to do her work and the work of her direct supervisor (since he was too inept to do it himself).  i told her that she needed to just let this guy fail on his own and expose him, but she wouldnt do it.  for one, it would reflect poorly on her because if the team fails (even if its due to the failures of the team leader alone) everyone looks bad.  secondly, it wasnt fair to her client who deserved the full effort that they were paying for.

thankfully, fate has a strange way of rewarding those who are most deserving (well sometimes).  right around the time the work related stress was reaching a boiling point, there was a regime change in the company.  there was a lot of turnover at the upper mgmt level including a new President and new Director of the west coast division (that my wifes office is part of).  One of the new faces that came over during this regime change was my wifes old boss from her last company who she had a great relationship with.  As it was, the old boss had a GREAT relationship with the new regime (with whom she came over).  On top of that, her old boss was a masterful gameplayer in her own right, as was evidenced by her close ties with the executives.  Old boss was aware of my wife's current situation and immediately started making a play to have my wife transfer over to work with her.  Once my wife left her old account, it inevitably failed now that the inept supervisor didnt have my wife to lean on as a crutch.  Inept guy was terminated once they lost the account, and my wife is in a much better place. 

I have the patience to read and do not consider what you and other's have shared to be a 'ramble'.  There is definitely a diff't tone to posts that have meaning. 
What you've just shared goes back to the idea of needing a one-two combo to succeed, but more so the 'fact' that concrete hard work does build a slow but steady path to success.  You might not find its reward initially, but things come back full circle as evident.  It becomes a very strong foundation and structure that withstands a lot of turmoil.

I've heard and experienced this myself.  However, I'm not saying being social and networking to not be of importance.  It is necessary, but again, if I had to put my money on something 'concrete', it'd be on hard work, as oppossed to @s$ kissing.  But within itself, @s$ kissing, and relationship building are diff't things.  I've found myself attending things I didn't want to, but had to, for the sake of getting myself out there.  I never found any fruition of it at the college level though.

LOL.  Again, I feel like Matt Forte, having proved myself, having dedicated myself, just want to be 'rewarded' for it.  I'm not pulling no Desean Jackson type thing.  Still, at some point, I'm going to take the next opportunity I see.  In the mean time, I can only work hard, continue to push, and improve myself.

 

[bangdak]

As a guy whose looking to major in Finance, do you think you, as well as others can shed a few advice?


I was planning to go for my MBA right after my bachelors (while looking for a job of course).

 

[runningfishy]

Originally Posted by BangDak

As a guy whose looking to major in Finance, do you think you, as well as others can shed a few advice?


I was planning to go for my MBA right after my bachelors (while looking for a job of course).

You have to tell us/me more in terms of what it is you want to pursue.  I can tell you already that this sector has been hurt for the past 3-5 years and will continue to hurt for the next 5-10 years.  However, the main thing is to do what you want to do; also, be willing to pay your dues, as with any field.

  

 

[mojodmonky1]

Originally Posted by BangDak

As a guy whose looking to major in Finance, do you think you, as well as others can shed a few advice?


I was planning to go for my MBA right after my bachelors (while looking for a job of course).

assuming you can find a job, i personally wouldnt recommend going straight into an MBA program for a couple of reasons.

1.  Work experience can be just as important as the degrees you hold.  Its going to be extremely difficult to find MBA level work if you dont have any relevant work experience to go along with it.  Youre going to get stuck in that "overqualified for entry level and underqualified for management" twilight zone.

2.  Many firms will pay for some if not all of your tuition.  Of course it comes with strings attached (probably have to sign some sort of extended contract and non-compete) but school aint cheap these days.  Let someone else pay for it.

3.  Enjoy life!  I only have my BS in Business Admin and am currently not even considering going back for an MBA (only because my field of work doesnt necesarily require it for upward advancement).  As much as I loved college, I loved post college even more.  Why?  While I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination, I am fairly stable financially and its nice to actually have a bit of scratch in your pocket and be able to do all the fun stuff you wanted to do in college but couldnt afford to do.  Dont be too eager to jump right back into the stressful world of higher education.  Enjoy the freedom of no more studying, no more mid terms, term papers, finals, etc...  Relax for a bit.

In terms of majoring in finance, I didnt major in finance so unfortunately i cant give much insight into it.  My focus was Mgmt Information Systems - e-commerce.  Upon graduating I realized that I hated working with IS/IT stuff, database mgmt, and anything remotely related to it.  Having a general degree in Business Administration (technically my degree is a B.S. in Business Admin with a focus in Management Information Systems and an emphasis in E-Commmerce... lame) allowed me to pursue entry level opportunities ranging from management type positions to finance.  In college, I was always kind of indifferent to finance and didnt think thats where I would end up.  To be honest, what I do is not exactly traditional finance (underwriter for a sub-prime lender/equipment leasing company) but I really enjoy the work that I do and kinda regret not having more of a focus in finance while in college.

  

 

[travisjmu]

Originally Posted by RunningFishy

Originally Posted by chickhien

go for the CFA if you want to stay in that industry. but you need to get your application in before feb 15, but you should be studying about 15 to 20 hrs per week starting jan 1. you have to have a valid passport as well. level 1 is offered june and december, level 2 and level 3 are only offered in the summer. so in other words, you get 2 shots to pass level 1 in 2012, one shot in 2013 to pass level 2, and one shot to pass level 3 in 2014.

i also think it wouldnt hurt to get a master's degree in there if you're motivated enough, like an mba. it really depends on what you want to do with the degree or charter.

also, are you still in contact with your old portfolio manager? sounded like yall had a pretty good professional relationship. stay in touch and ask him/her if they can be a mentor. if they sound too busy, just insist you'll be a low maintenance mentee, such as if you have a question you'll send an email and they can respond whenever they have time.

good luck

Do you know of the approach towards the CFA?  Do you know of schools offering courses?  I plan on checking it out at the university level, but hadn't had the time.  However, I want to ensure that my profession, experience and certification go hand in hand.  I'd hate to dedicate the time, if I'm going to end up doing something else.

I have the portfolio managers' contact and he was the 1st one that came out and said he'd be my reference.  At one point, he said he'd personally pay for my career development courses as the company would not.



Thanks

What are you talking about with those questions?  Have you even looked into what it entails to take the CPA, clearly chickhien knows what he is talking about....
I'll try to answer, but I'm not sure your question, are you looking for someone to give you a hold hand or checklist for taking and passing the CFA???? There is no set way to pass it..you study and prepare for the exam, and when it comes up, you either pass or you don't, the approach is to study more then you think you have to and be overly prepared.  That being said - I would say do that (over prepare

) only for levels 2 and 3.  Level 1 can be taken by soon to be graduate's, (undergrad), that being said, it mainly focus' on concepts you learned in school..(and a small ie but NPV, Bond Valuation, etc).....

Chickhien mentioned the correct approach, take level 1 in June when you take it, if you fail, take it in December so you are able to sit for level 2 the following summer..rather then failing the first summer, missing the December test and then having to wait until the summer of the following year.  I have not fully gone down this path as I went/am finishing my CPA before I complete my CFA, but chickhien if I'm not mistaken - I thought it was similar to the CPA where if I pass lvl 1 in 2012, lvl 2 in 2013, and failed lvl 3 in  2014 - I still was able to get another 1-2 (however long the first two passes stay active) chances to pass level 3 and get the certification or is that not the case anymore?

as for your second question...schools offering CFA courses?? Maybe a prepclass, but how could they offer college credit for that?  Most of my undergrad Finance was taught via the CFA institute books, so the same books that are recommended as study guides for the test.  I'm almost sure Becker or Barrons has other prep guides you could buy...and if I'm not mistaken the last time I looked at it, the official CFA website had study guides..

advice to others in the field...after college if you want to pursue an MBA - only do it right after you graduate if you can afford it without taking out any loans or you are unable to find a job (if the latter happens, the you may have to void the first, but do not go into more debt without looking for a job)..85% of companies will pay for your MBA if you get good enough grades, so it is more beneficial in that sense & MBA admission boards love the work experience over any new grad (even if the new grads GPA/GMAT are >>>>>>>> the seasoned person)....as mojomonkey mentioned..to me an MBA is a joke...CFA/CPA/CIA/CISA are far more worth the time (and the headaches will be worse), however that certification carries it's weight in gold for you...before you talk to anyone with those certifications - you bring a sense of respect/integrity/honestly to the position and you are a "specialist" in your certification.  An MBA to me and my friends that have taken classes towards it..just a waste of time as most Accounting/Finance majors do not learn a ton of additional information.  MBA will focus as well on interpersonal skills, marketing, operations, etc..i mean its alright and a catch all, but your knowledge base for things you will actually use in your life will not expand...

(did not proof read so flamesuit on for grammatical crap haha)