I want to show you guys this vid from the /B/ Cringe thread vol. Do fat people repulse you?

[Methodical Management]

If I were fat, and someone started saying I repulsed them if probably kill myself. No exaggeration. It's so much easier to say obesity is unhealthy, here's a few facts why, maybe add a pie chart. Add some facts that would show obesity takes years off your life, and how debilitating it is. That would help a lot more than just being like "You're fat! HA HA! Get skinny."

I think I see where this is headed.

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

Next they'll say that depression is experienced exclusively by the weak-minded and that anyone who suffers from it brought it on themselves.  Or perhaps they'll talk about how we shouldn't feel badly if rapists are so ashamed of themselves that they commit suicide... therefore: fatty fat fat fat.

Oh, and they'll probably make you regret using the term "pie chart," too.  That's one temptation they aren't strong enough to resist.

Smoking which is known to be addicting

Being compared to over eating is ridiculous...

Fat people lobbying congress to stay fat so people

Will hire them and shoot up their premiums on obama care? Lulz

Wait a minute, weren't you hollering about the Bloomberg "soda ban" the other day?  If anyone's "lobbying to stay fat"...

A grown man bullying a college kid online on his own website.

You know what?  You're right.  I think "bullying" is a bit melodramatic, but I've probably been a bit harsh.  You've been talking out of your hind quarters and I admit that it frustrated me.  

I wanted to expose all of this tortuously rationalized spite and selfishness for what it was, but I certainly could've been less emphatic about it.  

If I insulted you, I apologize.  People can, and should, disagree without being disagreeable.

 

[jchambers]

Quote: We can go all abstract and blame every aspect of an individuals makeup on genetic or environmental factors, but at some point, human beings have to be held responsible for the things that they do. You could say that a pedophile isn't responsible for rape because they were raped when they were young and it is a continuous cycle.

Let me get this straight:  a minute ago, you were yelling at me for supposedly comparing weight with race.  (I only raised the issue of whether people accepted discrimination of any sort as the employer's prerogative.)  

Now, you're comparing overweight people with rapists and klasnmen?  Okay. 

The argument by extension here is just nonsensical now.  


Bottom line is that you think it's fine to discriminate against or perhaps even insult/demean people struggling with obesity because they "deserve it."   I don't agree.   

If your motivation is to promote health, then promote health.  I don't see why we need to just absolutely stomp on and abuse people who don't meet your standard of fitness.   That's been my primary point here.  The lengths people have gone to in order to justify "fat bashing" are nothing short of extraordinary.  I'm honestly stunned.  

You are right, it is nonsensical. You won't accept that obese people are that way by choice. My point is that you can justify virtually anything by blaming society/genetics or environment. Where do we draw the line? As a business owner, should I be required to hire anyone no matter what their hygiene, weight, hairstyle, or tattoo/piercing situation is? By your logic, nobody is responsible for anything and I should be required to hire anyone who applies for the job.


"Bottom line is that you think it's fine to discriminate against or perhaps even insult/demean people struggling with obesity because they "deserve it." I don't agree."


Nice try. That is not what I am saying at all.The bottom line is that I think it is fine to discriminate based on factors of choice, which isn't really discrimination at all. Factors like obesity, drug use, cigarette smoking,lack of skills, etc. Let's keep it basic. There is no need for essays or abstractions.



"If your motivation is to promote health, then promote health. I don't see why we need to just absolutely stomp on and abuse people who don't meet your standard of fitness. That's been my primary point here. The lengths people have gone to in order to justify "fat bashing" are nothing short of extraordinary. I'm honestly stunned. "

I agree with you here. I don't really disagree with anything that you are saying, other than the issues I mentioned previously and your belief that they aren't directly and personally responsible for their obesity. The idea of a Fat Acceptance Organization that fights "weight discrimination" seems like a joke. If their motivation was helping overweight people, then their main goal would be promoting health and lifestyle changes.

 

[sir charles]

I will never regret you pie chart!



I swear!

 

[il prescelto]

Let me get this straight:  a minute ago, you were yelling at me for supposedly comparing weight with race.  (I only raised the issue of whether people accepted discrimination of any sort as the employer's prerogative.)  

Now, you're comparing overweight people with rapists and klasnmen?  Okay. 

The argument by extension here is just nonsensical now.  


Bottom line is that you think it's fine to discriminate against or perhaps even insult/demean people struggling with obesity because they "deserve it."   I don't agree.   

If your motivation is to promote health, then promote health.  I don't see why we need to just absolutely stomp on and abuse people who don't meet your standard of fitness.   That's been my primary point here.  The lengths people have gone to in order to justify "fat bashing" are nothing short of extraordinary.  I'm honestly stunned.  

You don't know what you're talking about.  At all.  Do you know anything about Galton?  


This has nothing to do with the subject matter anymore, it's just about you being contrary and blowing smoke.  I feel like your posts should all be printed in Courier New.  


Except that we were TALKING about a society.  This is ridiculous.  You sit through one lecture and suddenly you think you understand how the entire world works.  

When I say "I'm not doing this" what I mean is that I'm not going to be the one to debate you about the limitations of your brand new hobby horse.  It isn't new.  It doesn't have the explanatory power you seem to think it does.  Your understanding of it lacks depth and nuance.  There are so many flawed assumptions packed into this I wouldn't even know where to start.  Keep thinking that everything revolves around the ability of the individual to perfectly maximize his/her "utility function."  What that REALLY has to do with the subject at hand is anyone's guess at this point. 

You're not putting anything into context, just spewing out a bunch of slogans and generalizations.  That might dazzle people who've never encountered the subject matter, but it's just a colossal waste of everyone's time, because the only way to counter it is to go into it in GREAT detail and the only person who really wants to do that less than I do is you, because it requires you to demonstrate mastery of something you just learned a few weeks ago, probably in a microecon class.

Let's do both of us a favor and let it go.  It was silly to attack my position on the grounds that "morality is dumb" to begin with, but perhaps I should've just let it slide.  I had NO desire to venture this far out in the weeds with you.  To say it's been unproductive is a massive understatement.  

Yes I do. I'd be happy to let you know what, but you'd probably accuse me of stealing it from the Wikipedia page. There's a difference between studying variation in the human population and killing Jews to get pure, Aryan children.

I wasn't necessarily talking about society. Look up the quote if you want. My point was that it's possible for someone to only care about themselves and still take into account the actions of another party, and that can happen even in a 2-person model where there is no "society". So it's not ridiculous....Instead of resorting to insults, maybe you should get ur reading comprehension skills up plehboi

I never claimed that everything revolves around an individual maximizing his or her utility function.

Spewing out slogans and generalizations? You're the one citing random passages, bringing up random philosophical doctrines you assume I believe in, etc. And judging by the number of reps, you do a better job at "dazzling people". Or maybe it's just that people are impressed by your lack of concision.

I took MicroEcon a couple years ago, for the record. I'm not sure what school you went to, but sophomores don't usually take introductory MicroEcon classes.

Oh, and as far as "exposing my selfishness"? You didn't have to bother, I could have told you that myself.

 

[jchambers]

I don't even understand how this thread wound up here.

 

[ninjahood]

If I were fat, and someone started saying I repulsed them if probably kill myself. No exaggeration. It's so much easier to say obesity is unhealthy, here's a few facts why, maybe add a pie chart. Add some facts that would show obesity takes years off your life, and how debilitating it is. That would help a lot more than just being like "You're fat! HA HA! Get skinny."

I think I see where this is headed.

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

Next they'll say that depression is experienced exclusively by the weak-minded and that anyone who suffers from it brought it on themselves.  Or perhaps they'll talk about how we shouldn't feel badly if rapists are so ashamed of themselves that they commit suicide... therefore: fatty fat fat fat.

Oh, and they'll probably make you regret using the term "pie chart," too.  That's one temptation they aren't strong enough to resist.

Smoking which is known to be addicting

Being compared to over eating is ridiculous...

Fat people lobbying congress to stay fat so people

Will hire them and shoot up their premiums on obama care? Lulz

Wait a minute, weren't you hollering about the Bloomberg "soda ban" the other day?  If anyone's "lobbying to stay fat"...

they got da right to stay fat, that same right allows me to stay fit

with that said, being fat isn't desirable, it unhealthy, and with da looming obama care its gonna make businesses even MORE

discriminate on hiring people that gonna cost them money in healthcare bills.

you got da right to do what you want, but with that right comes consequences, so i dont feel da need to evoke any kind of pitty

for people doing things they have da POWER to control and choose not to.

im not feeling sorry for this... fat *****....

 

[jchambers]

If I were fat, and someone started saying I repulsed them if probably kill myself. No exaggeration. It's so much easier to say obesity is unhealthy, here's a few facts why, maybe add a pie chart. Add some facts that would show obesity takes years off your life, and how debilitating it is. That would help a lot more than just being like "You're fat! HA HA! Get skinny."

I think I see where this is headed.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Next they'll say that depression is experienced exclusively by the weak-minded and that anyone who suffers from it brought it on themselves.  Or perhaps they'll talk about how we shouldn't feel badly if rapists are so ashamed of themselves that they commit suicide... therefore: fatty fat fat fat.


Oh, and they'll probably make you regret using the term "pie chart," too.  That's one temptation they aren't strong enough to resist.

Smoking which is known to be addicting


Being compared to over eating is ridiculous...


Fat people lobbying congress to stay fat so people


Will hire them and shoot up their premiums on obama care? Lulz

Wait a minute, weren't you hollering about the Bloomberg "soda ban" the other day?  If anyone's "lobbying to stay fat"...

they got da right to stay fat, that same right allows me to stay fit

with that said, being fat isn't desirable, it unhealthy, and with da looming obama care its gonna make businesses even MORE

discriminate on hiring people that gonna cost them money in healthcare bills.

you got da right to do what you want, but with that right comes consequences, so i dont feel da need to evoke any kind of pitty

for people doing things they have da POWER to control and choose not to.

im not feeling sorry for this... fat *****....

View media item 385938

 

[Methodical Management]

"Bottom line is that you think it's fine to discriminate against or perhaps even insult/demean people struggling with obesity because they "deserve it." I don't agree."


Nice try. That is not what I am saying at all.The bottom line is that I think it is fine to discriminate based on factors of choice, which isn't really discrimination at all. Factors like obesity, drug use, cigarette smoking,lack of skills, etc. Let's keep it basic. 

You may not like the implications of my phrasing, but you're struggling to present a clear distinction.  You agree that it's fine to discriminate against people struggling with obesity because they "chose it."  The word "deserve", if you're objecting to that, implies that they "have it coming", and you certainly seem to agree with that.  

You aren't doing much to specify exactly how obese people are inherently unqualified for something like a desk job, however, and if the value judgment you're imposing to make that call implies that everyone who you consider obese is "lazy" or "weak-minded", then how are you any different than the person in the video?  How are those judgments not insulting?  If it's fair to discriminate against someone because you assume that they're "lazy" or "weak-minded", why is it NOT okay to make fun of them on that basis?  In many ways, the discrimination would be more damaging than the insults - and the insults aren't as much of a "rights" issue because people are free to be complete jerks to each other and nobody's suggesting that we make that "illegal."  

What is being suggested is that it's a very immature attitude, and it's an oddly particular one given the range of flaws that exist.  

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that you are a recreational alcohol or drug user.  I've never used either in my life.  What if I were to say, based solely on that, that I consider myself to be healthier than you (based on countless health studies, fatalities directly attributable to alcohol/drug abuse, etc. etc. etc.) and that, to go even further, I consider you disgusting and weak-minded?  I assume you submitted to peer pressure - or maybe you have a mental problem and you use them to self-medicate and "take the edge off."  Maybe you just like the rush, sort of like people enjoy the flavor of fatty foods even though they know it's unhealthy. 

Tell me that you wouldn't feel a certain type of way about that.  Is "truth hurts" a valid counter?  

You don't have to embrace "unhealthy behaviors" to object to that type of attitude.  

People who drink and smoke could be accused of having character flaws.  They could be called weak minded.  They're accepting unnecessary health risks in exchange for momentary pleasure.  The difference is, you don't often KNOW who drinks and smokes just by looking at them, so the amount of ridicule they're likely to experience simply making their way through the world is a far cry from what those struggling with weight issues have to deal with. 

Is that justified?  

It's odd to seize on that one flaw and say that it truly should define that person in the eyes of society. 

"If your motivation is to promote health, then promote health. I don't see why we need to just absolutely stomp on and abuse people who don't meet your standard of fitness. That's been my primary point here. The lengths people have gone to in order to justify "fat bashing" are nothing short of extraordinary. I'm honestly stunned. "

I agree with you here. I don't really disagree with anything that you are saying, other than the issues I mentioned previously and your belief that they aren't directly and personally responsible for their obesity. The idea of a Fat Acceptance Organization that fights "weight discrimination" seems like a joke. If their motivation was helping overweight people, then their main goal would be promoting health and lifestyle changes.

Nobody here has ever said that there's NOTHING people can do to address a weight problem.   The only thing that HAS been said is that there are indeed environmental factors at play here and that it's easy to be judgmental about something you've never had to experience.

People can CHOOSE to be poor.  They can CHOOSE to be unemployed.  Both are absolutely correctable problems.  

I don't think it's necessarily fair to attack ALL poor people on that basis.  And, again, you could make the case that poverty is a "negative signal" and that employers should have the right to discriminate on that basis.  It just demonstrates a lack of respect and understanding for people in that situation.  

If you wanted to create a situation that KEEPS disadvantaged people disadvantaged, it's hard to think of a better system than constant scorn and discrimination.  

All I've been promoting is support and respect.  If you find that so objectionable, then that's on you.   We're never going to agree. 
 

Instead of resorting to insults, maybe you should get ur reading comprehension skills up plehboi

Itself an insult, in a post full of insults.  I see you. 

There's a reason why you think things you haven't studied in depth are "unrelated," and there's a reason why everything you know about something could be easily be mistaken for a wikipedia entry, but I'm not playing this game with you anymore.  It's a waste of everyone's time. 

I took MicroEcon a couple years ago, for the record. I'm not sure what school you went to, but sophomores don't usually take introductory MicroEcon classes.

Some people are on the five year plan.  But, then, if you're a sophomore and you took MicroEcon "a couple of years ago", you already knew that.

Oh, and as far as "exposing my selfishness"? You didn't have to bother, I could have told you that myself.

Noted.

 

[jchambers]

I already gave an example of a situation where hiring an obese person could cause problems and unnecessary expenses. You can't deny that an obese person is more likely to have health problems than a fit one. I also think that you should be allowed to refuse employment to someone because they smoke cigarettes/drink or use recreational drugs. If you don't agree with that then we will have to agree to disagree because no wall of text is going to make me feel otherwise. I respect your intentions and I wish that we could all be happy and live in a perfect utopia, but in the real world forcing someone to hire an obese employee could cause problems, especially for a small business owner.

 

[ninjahood]

meth comparing food to liquor and smoking

homie you just said you never partook in either, last time i checked we NEED to eat..apples and oranges.

 

[il prescelto]

Itself an insult, in a post full of insults.  I see you. 

There's a reason why you think things you haven't studied in depth are "unrelated," and there's a reason why everything you know about something could be easily be mistaken for a wikipedia entry, but I'm not playing this game with you anymore.  It's a waste of everyone's time. 



Noted.

Of course I was going to insult you after you insulted me repeatedly. What did you expect?

The reason why I think things are "unrelated" is precisely because I've studied them.

Everything I know can be mistaken for a Wikipedia entry? If someone knew everything in every single Wikipedia entry, they'd be far more knowledgeable than you could ever hope to be, so I'm not sure how saying that something I know is contained in a Wikipedia entry means anything. If anything, that's a testament to the wealth of information that Wikipedia has managed to collect.
Secondly, that's simply not true: last time I checked, there's no Wikipedia page for the Bose-Chaudhuri-Hocquenghem Theorem (only for the BCH code I think), the Moore Kline Theorem, or how to derive the marginal effects when using a Logit regression.
The thing is, unlike you, I don't cite random academic sounding theories or names (edit: in my reasonings...happy SuperAntigen?) just to try to prove that the person I'm talking to is ignorant, and I also don't believe that a discussion on obesity necessarily requires the knowledge of things that don't show up on Wikipedia.

 

[deleted]

I think you could all take a note from me and learn to love everyone equally.

Bless you all.

 

[jchambers]

I think you could all take a note from me and learn to love everyone equally.

Bless you all.

I knew there had to be some reason why you love Robin Williams so much.

 

[dirtybuhbuhnew]

I honestly cannot understand how some of you think its fine to discriminate against somebody because of their weight. As stated before, there are so many factors that may tie in with somebody's physical and mental state. To think its fine to belittle or insult somebody without even truly understanding them is repulsive.

I mean if some of you would expand your mind, you would see that some people are just being who they are and shouldn't get judged for it. As hard as it may be for some of you with narrow mindsets, there are people who genuinely don't mind their size and have no desire to conform to what society deem as "healthy". That is their life and you should never mistreat somebody because of their choices. There is just no excuse. (Dude in here said 400 pounders don't go looking for jobs, are you serious bruh? Another dude saying its that persons fault they are fat)

If you think its fine to "fat bash" I'm sure people can find tons of your HUMAN "FLAWS" that can easily be used as a platform to insult you. To make matters worst, some of you have fat love ones, HAVE BEEN FAT OR MATTER FACT YOU ARE FAT RIGHT NOW, yet you DARE insult somebody and try to discriminate. Just foolish beyond belief.

 

[ninjahood]

no country for people who look like this...period, i dont care if its my own mother, she better get her fat *** to da gym

 

[dirtybuhbuhnew]

no country for people who look like this...period, i dont care if its my own mother, she better get her fat *** to da gym

I could have worn discriminating was against Niketalk's rules? Opinions are welcomed, but now your posting pictures of PEOPLE you feel should not be allowed to reside in an area. Just discriminating bro. How would you feel if somebody posted a "no ninjahood allowed" picture and used an example of you as to what shouldn't be allowed in this country?

 

[ninjahood]

no country for people who look like this...period, i dont care if its my own mother, she better get her fat *** to da gym

I could have worn discriminating was against Niketalk's rules? Opinions are welcomed, but now your posting pictures of PEOPLE you feel should not be allowed to reside in an area. Just discriminating bro. How would you feel if somebody posted a "no ninjahood allowed" picture and used an example of you as to what shouldn't be allowed in this country?

heren lies da problem, obesity is a problem, not a social demographic that should be coddled to feel better about their grotesque

binge eating habits.

 

[dirtybuhbuhnew]

heren lies da problem, obesity is a problem, not a social demographic that should be coddled to feel better about their grotesque

binge eating habits.

Illiteracy is a problem, doesn't make it ok to attempt to ostracize those who can't read. Why not encourage them in a positive manner? So far its slowly working. Shows like the biggest loser, the rise of these TV fitness programs(P90x, Insanity) and rise of promotion of gyms at more affordable prices is showing that losing weight and getting in shape is possible. You don't have to be insulted in order to be motivated. Breaking down ones self esteem as a way of motivation is never a successful tactic as its bound to create even more unhealthy and unproductive behavior.

 

[Canadian Destroyer]

I think it's a mental disorder

 

[RustyShackleford]

Ninja has gotten ethered by so many Nters over the years, could tonight finally be the night the big man himself tears him a new one?

 

[jchambers]

heren lies da problem, obesity is a problem, not a social demographic that should be coddled to feel better about their grotesque

binge eating habits.

Illiteracy is a problem, doesn't make it ok to attempt to ostracize those who can't read. Why not encourage them in a positive manner? So far its slowly working. Shows like the biggest loser, the rise of these TV fitness programs(P90x, Insanity) and rise of promotion of gyms at more affordable prices is showing that losing weight and getting in shape is possible. You don't have to be insulted in order to be motivated. Breaking down ones self esteem as a way of motivation is never a successful tactic as its bound to create even more unhealthy and unproductive behavior.

You are right, but the issue that we were addressing in this thread originally was the ridiculousness of a society for fat acceptance. I would argue that attacking and ridiculing negative behavior is a better motivator than making excuses for that negative behavior and pushing for acceptance of it.

 

[jchambers]

Ninja has gotten ethered by so many Nters over the years, could tonight finally be the night the big man himself tears him a new one?

Ninja is my dog, but he knows Meth got him with the Sidekick comment a week or two ago.

 

[dirtybuhbuhnew]

I think it's a mental disorder

As stated before there are many factors that tie in with obesity. It could be how your family has always eaten, your economic state, your own personal beliefs, stress, just so many different things that tie into it. That is why it really is unfair to judge or mistreat somebody. Everyone has gone through or lives through things that explains why they are who they are. That is what life is. That is what I'd like some of the other members in here to understand. That discriminatory attitude always holds back our society. Fat Acceptance will lead to progress , while Fat discrimination will lead to regression.

 

[superantigen]

Ninja has gotten ethered by so many Nters over the years, could tonight finally be the night the big man himself tears him a new one?

Ohh please, aint no body tryna hear what Ninja gotta say on the matter, especially this deep into the thread, after the exchanges we've seen.

Ol' "waterboy tryna act like he played a pivotal role in the championship game" looking boy.






...

 

[deleted]

no country for people who look like this...period, i dont care if its my own mother, she better get her fat *** to da gym

So you're saying we should judge fat people as lesser individuals because they don't choose to improve their health?

Using this logic, is it safe to say we should perceive you as a simpleton because of your reluctance to type with any sort of recognizable structure?