Is The, "It Is Disrespectful To Your Ancestors If You DON'T Vote" Logic Still Valid?

[Sir San Diego]

so nobody gonna tell me 5 things voting has accomplished in a "voting" thread?

I want to know how voting has directly, positively and measurably effected black voters as well.

yeah Gave y'all a pretty succinct answer as why vote but some of y'all don't want to hear it and just want be to apathetic and angry.

Things will not improve for everyone in this country until everyone is suffering equally. I'm not apathetic, I'm realistic. Why would the country change in my favor, when it's working well for whites?

Black folks that "made it" can't even have peace in this country where supposedly money is the great equalizer. I'm not angry, but I'm not an idiot either.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

I'm critical of the US government as well, but voting was never proven not to work. In fact, states with the lowest amount of civic participation (ie Voting) often have the lowest qualities of life. I don't think that's a coincidence. I also don't think its a coincidence that there are still people working on supressing black and low income voters in the form of voter ID laws.

Things have NOT gotten worse since Obama took office, either. Stop propagating that nonsense. People are more aware of the issues and the media reports on said issues much more frequently, but things haven't gotten worse just because people started talking about it. You really think there weren't hundreds of Mike Browns/Tamir Rices during the civil rights movement? The only difference is that those weren't news stories in the early to mid 1900s because race relations were wayyyyy worse back then.

At one point in time, approximately 30% of all white men born in Indiana were in the KKK. Public lynchings weren't just a thing, but considered a valid form of entertainment for the family. I'm not saying things have ever been great here, but they have definitely improved. If you have yet to be bitten in the *** by a police dog, had a high pressure firehose pointed at your face, or literally chased out of your neighborhood, I think you are very naive about how bad race relations were in this country at one time.

Killing black men for being black was has been going on for hundreds of years. Anybody that knows the history of America should know that ****. It's being broadcasted more now cuz media is bigger and everybody got camera phones. And guess what... They're still getting away with it. Black people are still targets and most media outlets still push the stereotypes and justify us being targeted. That's not progress.


Black men and boys still getting killed by cops. Black girls getting wrestled by cops. ALL ON CAMERA and nothing happens. Don't be fooled cuz it's a black president and black people and white people live in the same neighborhoods, work together, go to school together. Interracial relationships. That's not real progress. At the end of the day they're still showing us that black life in America don't mean ****.

 

[slighted]

 

I actually WANT Trump to be president and not because I agree with anything he says. I want a legit out in the open racist to be the face of a legit out in the open racist country. Then people can drop the "racism/slavery/civil rights struggle is over" routine.

 

That uncomfortable silence when Burr says "I don't think it matters who's president"

New America = fake outrage / pretending to care

 

[yeah]

I'm critical of the US government as well, but voting was never proven not to work. In fact, states with the lowest amount of civic participation (ie Voting) often have the lowest qualities of life. I don't think that's a coincidence. I also don't think its a coincidence that there are still people working on supressing black and low income voters in the form of voter ID laws.

Things have NOT gotten worse since Obama took office, either. Stop propagating that nonsense. People are more aware of the issues and the media reports on said issues much more frequently, but things haven't gotten worse just because people started talking about it. You really think there weren't hundreds of Mike Browns/Tamir Rices during the civil rights movement? The only difference is that those weren't news stories in the early to mid 1900s because race relations were wayyyyy worse back then.

At one point in time, approximately 30% of all white men born in Indiana were in the KKK. Public lynchings weren't just a thing, but considered a valid form of entertainment for the family. I'm not saying things have ever been great here, but they have definitely improved. If you have yet to be bitten in the *** by a police dog, had a high pressure firehose pointed at your face, or literally chased out of your neighborhood, I think you are very naive about how bad race relations were in this country at one time.

Killing black men for being black was has been going on for hundreds of years. Anybody that knows the history of America should know that ****. It's being broadcasted more now cuz media is bigger and everybody got camera phones. And guess what... They're still getting away with it. Black people are still targets and most media outlets still push the stereotypes and justify us being targeted. That's not progress.


Black men and boys still getting killed by cops. Black girls getting wrestled by cops. ALL ON CAMERA and nothing happens. Don't be fooled cuz it's a black president and black people and white people live in the same neighborhoods, work together, go to school together. Interracial relationships. That's not real progress. At the end of the day they're still showing us that black life in America don't mean ****.

Those hyperboles and exaggerations about modern times even being comparable to 90 years ago is a slap in the face to those who experienced it. People had whole limbs dismembered just cause, and yall think that stuff hasn't improved because grand juries are continuing to be used blocked jusitice? 10 years ago a lot of that stuff wouldn't have even made the news, much less gone to trial. Hell, it wasn't long ago that the general public thought police brutality was a figment of black peoples' imagination

And not only are things going to trial, some cops are actually being held accountable. There have been several high profile cases that ended with former officers going to prison- Peter Liang, Dan Holtzclaw, Sean Courter...and those are just over the last couple months.

Again, I'm not saying that we're at where we need to be or even close to it. But I'mma need yall to stop acting like we're stuck where the civil rights movement left off, or insinuating that things are worse today than they were in the past. Its just not true.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Well we gon have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[Sir San Diego]

Things have gotten better? Is this what voting gets us?

http://www.cristyli.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Washington-DC-Tea-Party-Rally.jpg[img]

[img]https://phreshdelivery.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/obama1.jpg

 

[wicked kickz]

And not only are things going to trial, some cops are actually being held accountable. There have been several high profile cases that ended with former officers going to prison- Peter Liang, Dan Holtzclaw, Sean Courter...and those are just over the last couple months.

Again, I'm not saying that we're at where we need to be or even close to it. But I'mma need yall to stop acting like we're stuck where the civil rights movement left off, or insinuating that things are worse today than they were in the past. Its just not true.

what we're saying is these pigs are being held accountable because of movements like #BlackLivesMatters pressing them. If there was no movement, there wouldn't be as much pressure. what we're doing on the streets is exposing the white supremacist basis of the US. don't ever believe for a second in your life that the system was intended to work against the pigs (after all, they developed from slave patrols and essentially function for the same purpose). laws are merely a reflection of class interests, a construct of power, NOT morality.

as KRS said "there can never be justice on stolen land!"

 

[mister friendly]

Yep so don't vote, that will really show them.

 

[wicked kickz]

Yep so don't vote, that will really show them.

or vote for a billion dollar candidate in the 2016 SELECTION.. err I mean Election. that'll show 'em

unless of course you're voting for Sanders. he seems to be the only one that can contend against Trump.

 

[Sir San Diego]

Yep so don't vote, that will really show them.

Who am I supposed to be showing? All you're doing with that vote is participating in a system that wants you dead, in prison or licking their boots anyway. But go ahead and think you're doing something great and pat yourself on the back. Nothing has changed since we got those "civil rights" my dude.

 

[mister friendly]

Whats your solution? Complain on the internet? Encourage apathy?

 

[wicked kickz]

solution? build the party ourselves. and that takes hard work and organization. we need a party that represents the people. the democrats and republicans have BEEN bought by corporations. let's not get it twisted. organize, organize, organize. at anyone thinking pulling a lever every 4 years and twiddling our thumbs in between then will solve the inherent contradictions of the capitalist system

 

[dipsetgeneral]

Nah, i don't think it's disrespectful. i think it's disrespectful to your ancestors if, you don't make something of yourself & contribute to this world.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The reason of representative don't look out for the people's interest is because turnout is so low, the public, especially liberals hardly hold their elected officials accountable

And as a result of the low turnout, politicians are then allowed to answer only to their biggest donors, and not their electorate. America elections are still fair, all the extra money hasn't changed that.

Not voting is the definition of hustling backwards. These fools will continue to not look out for the public's interest because they are not getting punish come election time.

This talking point out "I voted, nothing change" doesn't tell the entire picture. If everyone vote, all the time, things would change

But so many people have this "voting doesn't matter" attitude, and it has become a big enough problem at politicians now only have to answer o those people that really care, and show they care all the time.

Rich people vote at higher rates that poor do, they get most of the benefits from the system, same with old v. old, and minorities v. whites.

Those who vote more get more from the system

--------

So of the biggest white supremacist in the public sector, the ones at the state and local level that have the most power to oppress black folk are probably there because they won an election with low turnout. Many of you judges, and sheriffs, state legislators, governors, etc.

When you look at it, the federal government is one of the fairest levels of government. No one has a problem with "big" government when it looks out for the interest of white folk, but when the Federal government gets into the business of helping minorities there is a problem.

This is why I believe minorities should have a vested interest in making sure the federal government is "big", well funded, providing tons of social insurance and fighting for social justice.

it can be a weapon against white supremacy at its best. But we have to fight to make it's best. To make sure the is a sensible guy as president, that Congress is held accountable, that the Supreme Court is looking out for the people.

---------

I understand where the frustration comes from, I truly do.

But my brahs see my run my mouth about white supremacy, systemic racism, social justice and social insurance to at least know that to me politics is not like picking a sports team.

That I believe a well functioning government can truly make a difference in the lives of people for the positive.

-P.S: I'm not waiting around for some politician to save the day. But I know that policies government enact that push forward, hold back, and destroy any efforts a community tries to get ahead.

You want a better functioning government, one that addresses the concerns of the people, all people. Then you need to vote, every time, no matter what. And when everyone is doing that, then you will see a government.

Lets stop crisis caring, that only when the worst of the worst happens to care. That's how these fools, especially hard right conservatives continue to oppress minority communities

 

[King of Trash Style]

Most of what affects us is on the local and state level anyway. National voting is like WWE everything is predetermined.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

But so many people have this "voting doesn't matter" attitude, and it has become a big enough problem at politicians now only have to answer o those people that really care, and show they care all the time.

Rich people vote at higher rates that poor do, they get most of the benefits from the system, same with old v. old, and minorities v. whites.

Those who vote more get more from the system

--------

Middle class people vote more than anybody cuz they fall for the idea that their counts and their making a difference. Rich people really don't have to vote. They control it. Rich people put their money behind certain politicians to push their agenda and watch everything play out. Until black people put serious money behind a candidate to push OUR agenda your vote means nothing. It's business as usual.

Local elections, yes.

President, not until we buy a politician like everybody else does. Presidents are selected not elected anyway.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I'll respond tomorrow brag, on mobile right now.

I think I have to expand on my point and address the underlying assumptions of your point/argument.

I just hope to god trolls like blco or steezy aren't flourishing in here by that time.

 

[sn00pee]

Things have gotten better? Is this what voting gets us?

Has no correlation with voting.


And no, I dont think not voting is disrepecting your ancestors. People who make efforts NOT to vote is just the lamest excuse though.

 

[Sir San Diego]

Whats your solution? Complain on the internet? Encourage apathy?

How am I encouraging apathy when I said go vote if it makes you happy? I don't have to agree with you in order for the system that you put faith in to work. A system, btw that was never built for us, but as usual if you don't allow the negro to do something, like a knee-jerk reaction, they'll want it, no matter what they give up to have it. Integration, white women, voting and designer garbage all come to mind.

Vote by all means, but don't tell me that I'm not responsible because I'm not taking that tired *** route.

I'm working on our solution: step one, being my own boss. Step two teaching our children to not rely on white daddy to pay us. Black folks, like most folks, want things the easy way. But what good comes when no sacrifices are made? NOTHING. But we'll go to the white man's office, go vote at the white man's polling booth and spend our money at the white man's store, while we wonder... why doesn't this white man change? Because your monkey *** has made it that he doesn't have to. You give him most of your money, you make him rich by working for him and you participate FULLY in his system.

Do you hear how dumb that sounds? Take your feelings out of the equation and soak that up. THAT is hustling backwards.

Has no correlation with voting.


And no, I dont think not voting is disrepecting your ancestors. People who make efforts NOT to vote is just the lamest excuse though.

I know it doesn't have a correlation, because voting won't change ANY of that. But please tell me what voting HAS changed for black folks when we were the voters. Do you disagree with Malcolm X on this or do you think it's possible that he was right and we have been doing this wrong for generations?

 

[yeah]

And not only are things going to trial, some cops are actually being held accountable. There have been several high profile cases that ended with former officers going to prison- Peter Liang, Dan Holtzclaw, Sean Courter...and those are just over the last couple months.

Again, I'm not saying that we're at where we need to be or even close to it. But I'mma need yall to stop acting like we're stuck where the civil rights movement left off, or insinuating that things are worse today than they were in the past. Its just not true.

what we're saying is these pigs are being held accountable because of movements like #BlackLivesMatters pressing them. If there was no movement, there wouldn't be as much pressure. what we're doing on the streets is exposing the white supremacist basis of the US. don't ever believe for a second in your life that the system was intended to work against the pigs (after all, they developed from slave patrols and essentially function for the same purpose). laws are merely a reflection of class interests, a construct of power, NOT morality.

as KRS said "there can never be justice on stolen land!"

I agree. Never said the system was set up for anyone but the shareholders.

Things have gotten better? Is this what voting gets us?

You have to stop thinking that the frequency of these types of events have increased just because the media talks about it more often. Voting didn't get us those things, those things have been happening since before we could vote, so I really don't know why you're blaming voting for that. The fact that you even know about them is progress. Like I've said before in this thread - a lot of those issues wouldn't have even made the news a couple decades ago. Yes, things have gotten better as a whole.

Its like yall refuse to acknowledge any progress whatsoever because y'all are so deadset on your lives being as difficult, or more so, as your ancestors. Our lives are remarkably better, as a direct result of what our ancestors did. I suggest yall read some diaries of people back in the day. Things were way, way worse. Like, yall realize that folks were literally being snatched off the streets and forced to sharecrop, right? Men were dragged in the street for looking at certain women. Not paying attention and using the other water fountain could result in a felony. And y'all have the audacity to say your life is in any way comparable as you post from an iPhone, or a laptop computer?

You say that voting is just participating in a system that wants us killed, right? Can you humor me with what you've done to instill change outside of voting, then? Have you mentored? Do you tutor? Have you consistently volunteered within the community?

For all of you who think voting doesn't do anything, I HIGHLY ENCOURAGE you to listen to this podcast for a very real example of what voting in local elections - not just state or presidential elections - can do. Here's an excerpt from the East Ramapo Central School District page:

In July 2010 the School Board of the East Ramapo Central School District voted to sell its Hillcrest Elementary School—closed due to budget cuts—to the Hasidic Jewish Congregation Yeshiva Avir Yakov of New Square.[8] In an official response to an investigation of the sale, New York State Education Commissioner David Steiner stated the East Ramapo board “abused its discretion by hastily approving the sale.” The 12 acre campus, assessed at $10.2 million (market value) by the Assessor’s Office of Clarkstown was given only a $3.2 million appraisal by the school board's own attorney, Albert D’Agostino.[9] On June 8, 2011 the commissioner of the NY State Education Department halted the sale of the building stating the board failed its fiduciary responsibility to the district when it approved the $3.2 million deal.

http://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/534/a-not-so-simple-majority

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

These crackers gone do what they wanna do anyway & the people that do vote are by large complete morons. If you vote cool but it isn't for me, just like this country isn't. It's pointless.

 

[dopeness]

Things have gotten better? Is this what voting gets us?

And you think who we choose for president can change all this? That's the problem as to why I don't know if I'm voting. The majority of people can't name the three branches of government, let alone the branch that actually makes the laws or which one signs the laws. Or which one decides if it's constitutional. 
 

 

[Sir San Diego]

a lot of those issues wouldn't have even made the news a couple decades ago

Wrong. A couple of those Time Magazine covers are from a couple of decades ago (1990s) and one is from the 1960s.

The media never had a problem showing us getting our butts kicked. I never once said the frequency of the events increased so kill that. I've repeatedly said things remain the same. But since you brought it up, where are the numbers supporting your opinion that the frequency of white on black violence (police killings included) has decreased?

Voting didn't get us those things, those things have been happening since before we could vote, so I really don't know why you're blaming voting for that.

According to you progress will be made through the black vote. The point that you continue to miss is our mistreatment has been happening before and after we got the right to vote. If our vote barely made a dent in White Supremacy, then what more should we expect from repeated behavior with similar results?

folks were literally being snatched off the streets and forced to sharecrop, right?

Are you aware that THAT is still happening? Bogus arrests, prison time and free labor from prisoners, aka slavery? Yes SLAVERY. Are you familiar with the 13th amendment that says once your black *** commits a crime you are once again a slave? Read it. Then once you're done, look at our US population number verses our incarceration/conviction numbers.

Can you humor me with what you've done to instill change outside of voting, then? Have you mentored? Do you tutor? Have you consistently volunteered within the community?

I'm working on my own business, teaching my children to do the same and yes I have volunteered and given my time freely to black children before. It's been a while as my focus is on my own children now, but I've helped teach art in schools before and have tutored kids from my old neighborhood, free of charge.

 

[yeah]

Wrong. A couple of those Time Magazine covers are from a couple of decades ago (1990s) and one is from the 1960s.

The media never had a problem showing us getting our butts kicked. I never once said the frequency of the events increased so kill that. I've repeatedly said things remain the same. But since you brought it up, where are the numbers supporting your opinion that the frequency of white on black violence (police killings included) has decreased?

I said a lot of those issues wouldn't have made the news decades ago, not all of them. I know who Rodney King is, and I know the LA riots happened years ago. I just don't think people like Eric Gardener would have received any coverage before smartphones. Neither would have people like Mike Brown.

Here are your statistics:

View media item 1926594
That is from the Criminal Victimization
in the United States (2012) report by the DOJ. They first started collecting that information in the 1960s, and the vast majority of all types crime, white collar, blue collar, white on black, black on white, etc have gone down. The DOJ doesn't keep statistics on police shootings, at least as far as I could tell, so that kind of stuff is impossible to know.

According to you progress will be made through the black vote. The point that you continue to miss is our mistreatment has been happening before and after we got the right to vote. If our vote barely made a dent in White Supremacy, then what more should we expect from repeated behavior with similar results?

How can you say that I've missed that point? Go back and read the posts, in nearly every one of them I say that this has been happening before we could vote and that we still have work to do. The only thing we disagree on is whether or not there's been progress since that time. I think the fact that there is a black man in the white house shows that progress has been made, even if its all superficial in your eyes.

Don't ask "wheres proof of progress??" then discount any evidence due jadedness. Even if you think the president is just a figurehead, there is no way a black man would have ever been president during the time of Dr. MLK Jr. or Mr. El-Shabazz (Malcolm X.) I think it's very easy to lose track of how much has changed in the past 100 years.

Are you aware that THAT is still happening? Bogus arrests, prison time and free labor from prisoners, aka slavery? Yes SLAVERY. Are you familiar with the 13th amendment that says once your black *** commits a crime you are once again a slave? Read it. Then once you're done, look at our US population number verses our incarceration/conviction numbers.

Show me a slave that was offered a trial before being forced into slavery. I get what you're saying, but that's not the same thing. Did people set us up from the get go? Yes. Did people systemically ensure that drug dealing was more appealing than pursuing education? Yes. But at the end of the day, someone chose to pick up that bag, squeeze that trigger, etc.

Work duty in jail/prison is NOTHING like slavery. Its modern day wage enslavement, sure, but prisoners aren't getting their foots cut off, mutilated, and are generally in better conditions than most slaves were. They get three meals, have their hygenie needs met, receive medical treatment, etc. Its not a good situation and I'm not insinuating they should be thankful, but think about a day in the life of a slave vs. a day in the life of a prisoner. One could have made different decisions that may have prevented their incareration, whereas one was doomed as a result of being born during that time. Pretty clear who has it better.

I'm working on my own business, teaching my children to do the same and yes I have volunteered and given my time freely to black children before. It's been a while as my focus is on my own children now, but I've helped teach art in schools before and have tutored kids from my old neighborhood, free of charge.

Your business doesn't really have anything to do with the community unless you're providing jobs and/or services for the community. Nor does raising your children, that's just your responsibility as a parent. Its cool that you helped tutor and teach art at one point, but what are you doing today to help out?

Its very frustrating when people say "voting doesn't work, you're just participating in a system that wants you dead" and when asked what they're doing to help, they say 'oh i helped teach art and tutored a few years back.'

 

[Sir San Diego]

The DOJ doesn't keep statistics on police shootings, at least as far as I could tell, so that kind of stuff is impossible to know.

Impossible, huh? I found numbers in a matter of minutes. They just don't support your message.

Police killed almost five black people per every million black residents of the U.S., compared with about 2 per million for both white and hispanic victims.

http://www.mintpressnews.com/776-people-killed-by-police-so-far-in-2015-161-of-them-unarmed/209127/

We're 12% of the US population and are killed by police more than three times as much as whites and Hispanics per capita. The only way that's an improvement is if at one point we were almost eradicated.

When Mr. Moskos adjusted his data to account for that, he found that black men were 3.5 times more likely to be killed by cops than white men. That’s inconvenient.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/tak...l-story-of-race-and-police-killings/?referer=

I'm not even going to get into fair trials vs. what's offered to black folks. And regarding my response as to what I'm doing, you can be frustrated all you want. Being a parent to two children is a job in itself. I work and am working for myself, so if you can add another 8 hours to the day, I'll make time for what you think is appropriate. Eventually, me being my own boss and teaching my children to be less dependent on white businesses/politicians to provide opportunities will pay off, as other like minded individuals follow similar steps.

I can tell you're not prepared to answer the question as to how voting has positively impacted our community when we vote, because you keep ducking the question. I don't want an example of one school, in one community. Give me examples of how nationally it's done any good in the name of measurable progress.