Keith Olbermann Get Emotional After Prop. 8 Vol. I'm Speechless.

[basirwaahid]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]The hypocrisy of black people voting for this ban.......[/color]

Gay people wanting to be married is the same as Jim crow laws??? Get the hell out here with that mess. . .

. That's what I hate about most about the Gay Community, your struggle ofbeing accepted for your sexual preference is no way near the struggle of ME just being accepted. . PERIOD!!!!!!! Stop comparing your struggle to those of blackcommunity because you're movement is far from it. And I disagree with everything Oberman said.

 

[kicks off]

@ another Keith Olbermann exploitation for ratings rant. why didn't he cry forhelp for the gays during the election?...

 

[tkthegirl]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Peteweezy

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]The hypocrisy of black people voting for this ban.......[/color]

I would have voted for gay marriages being allowed but don't try the whole black people thing. If you say everybody cool but trying to single out somebody never turns out well.

I'm not saying black people are responsible for it, I'm saying it's kinda messed up that they voted against it. That's all.

Are you seriously basing that argument off an exit poll that consisted of 224 black people? When the hell did the black community and the gay community sign adamn pact? Like mentioned stop singling out one group of people cause the #+!! is getting old real quick. Every $@%+*$* time something doesn't go the waypeople didn't want it to go #+!! is magically blamed on black people. I wish I did have the power people constantly given to me because of my skin color.The +%%$ out of here.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by BasirWaahid

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]The hypocrisy of black people voting for this ban.......[/color]

Gay people wanting to be married is the same as Jim crow laws??? Get the hell out here with that mess. . .

. That's what I hate about most about the Gay Community, your struggle of being accepted for your sexual preference is no way near the struggle of ME just being accepted. . PERIOD!!!!!!! Stop comparing your struggle to those of black community because you're movement is far from it. And I disagree with everything Oberman said.

I'm black and this argument hit close to home because I love white women and women of all races and I can't imagine a time when peopleweren't allowed by law to get married because of their race. I agree that what black have had to endure is leaps and bounds more harsh than what gays gothrough to today.

My point is the same ignorance that is preventing gays from marrying is the same ignorance that forbade blacks from being full citizens of this country. Not anequal severity of hardships but its the same mentality.

 

[8tothe24]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by 8tothe24

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by 916JORDANboy

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by 916JORDANboy

Originally Posted by 718stylez

possibly I am ignorant. please explain it to me.

Clearly you have scientific qualifications to make a decision on whether homosexuality is a "lifestyle" or not. I made my point, it's now up to you to digest it. Just as the ideology of homosexuality being perceived as a lifestyle choice is used as an excuse not to give these people an equal right to happiness; during slavery times black where perceived as less than human and were therefore not entitled to basic human rights and were treated like animals.

Sry about the run-on sentence.

And you are ready to provide proof that it isn't a "lifestyle" choice? See how easy that was. Doesn't believe what NT majority does, so that makes him wrong. Hmmm... sounds familiar.

It exists in nature:

Homosexual, as well as bisexual, behavior is widespread in the animal kingdom. Animal sexual behavior takes many different forms, even within the same species and the motivations for and implications of their behaviors have yet to be fully understood as most species have yet to be studied.[sup][3][/sup] A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior, not necessarily sex, has been observed in close to 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them.[sup][4][/sup][sup][5][/sup]


If you ask any gay person if they believe they can "Snap" out of it, their answer is no. So you mean to tell me every gay person out there are lying?

Now can you give me any evidence to the contrary? Aside from God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve and mommy and daddy told me Lucifer was gay.

And where does it say that the animal kingdom didn't "chose" to perform acts of bisexuality, be it dominance of others or whateverit may be? Furthermore how can it be proven? And where did I say homosexuality should be forbidden? I do appreciate your use of wikipedia as a sourcethough. And where in the animal kingdom does marriage exist? It is a human social construct developed within society. California society just said marriageis between a man and woman.

 

[pushak513]

Im glad there are so many people in the world who think like I do. makes me have some hope in ruff times. Keith told 100% truth in that whole piece.He's the only news I ever watch. Gay people are the same as any other minority people dont agree with in the world. the majority (Christan) say its wrongfor them to marry and most people go with the majority, besides us free thinking liberals. there really not hurting anyone so leave em alone. I would dare saya gay marriage would last longer in these days than a regular marriage would. Let them do them and keep it moving. there not forcing or campaigning foreveryone to be gay there just wantin to be equal and thats fine with me.

Theres a movie commin out soon Bout a guy last name Milk (name of the movie 2) bout the first gay mayor or somthin and i think that was in California. Oddto see what it has become

 

[cincoseisdos]

Originally Posted by Pushak513


Im glad there are so many people in the world who think like I do. makes me have some hope in ruff times. Keith told 100% truth in that whole piece. He's the only news I ever watch. Gay people are the same as any other minority people dont agree with in the world. the majority (Christan) say its wrong for them to marry and most people go with the majority, besides us free thinking liberals. there really not hurting anyone so leave em alone. I would dare say a gay marriage would last longer in these days than a regular marriage would. Let them do them and keep it moving. there not forcing or campaigning for everyone to be gay there just wantin to be equal and thats fine with me.

Theres a movie commin out soon Bout a guy last name Milk (name of the movie 2) bout the first gay mayor or somthin and i think that was in California. Odd to see what it has become

I don't know what movie you're talking about but i'm almost positive you're referring to Harvey Milk. I remember a few years back they built aHS in Harlem or BK in his honor catering to gay students specifically, one student was killed while wearing a school sweater on the streets.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by TkTheGirl

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Peteweezy

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]The hypocrisy of black people voting for this ban.......[/color]

I would have voted for gay marriages being allowed but don't try the whole black people thing. If you say everybody cool but trying to single out somebody never turns out well.

I'm not saying black people are responsible for it, I'm saying it's kinda messed up that they voted against it. That's all.

Are you seriously basing that argument off an exit poll that consisted of 224 black people? When the hell did the black community and the gay community sign a damn pact? Like mentioned stop singling out one group of people cause the #+!! is getting old real quick. Every $@%+*$* time something doesn't go the way people didn't want it to go #+!! is magically blamed on black people. I wish I did have the power people constantly given to me because of my skin color. The +%%$ out of here.

LOL how many times will should I say I'm not blaming black people for the law being passed.......but Iam singling out black people because as a black man I'm appalled and disappointed that any black person would vote for that law to be passed. I'll askit again what makes these people any less entitled to this basic right than any other citizen? And I need a better argument than "a man woke up andconsciously decided to have sex with another man he wasn't sexually attracted to cause he was fascinated by the lifestyle".

 

[tkthegirl]

The black people did vote voted because they don't equate the discrimination they receive from their skin color to discrimination you receive from yoursexual preference when they find out what your sexual preference is. The no to prop 8 campaign failed miserably trying to reach out to any community theyweren't comfortable near. As I stated before the California Gay community shown was mostly white and asian I don't see how they would even think thatthe black and hispanic community would see this as their problem.
Not only that there are people out their who don't equate the gay lifestyle as a death sentence of a lifestyle. I personally know two older women who datedwomen for 10 years or more and after they broke up went back to men with no hesitation. They happen to fall in love with those women.
There is a combination of both people who choose to be with the same sex person and those who who felt it was natural from the beginning.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by 8tothe24

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by 8tothe24

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by 916JORDANboy

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by 916JORDANboy

Originally Posted by 718stylez

possibly I am ignorant. please explain it to me.

Clearly you have scientific qualifications to make a decision on whether homosexuality is a "lifestyle" or not. I made my point, it's now up to you to digest it. Just as the ideology of homosexuality being perceived as a lifestyle choice is used as an excuse not to give these people an equal right to happiness; during slavery times black where perceived as less than human and were therefore not entitled to basic human rights and were treated like animals.

Sry about the run-on sentence.

And you are ready to provide proof that it isn't a "lifestyle" choice? See how easy that was. Doesn't believe what NT majority does, so that makes him wrong. Hmmm... sounds familiar.

It exists in nature:

Homosexual, as well as bisexual, behavior is widespread in the animal kingdom. Animal sexual behavior takes many different forms, even within the same species and the motivations for and implications of their behaviors have yet to be fully understood as most species have yet to be studied.[sup][3][/sup] A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior, not necessarily sex, has been observed in close to 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them.[sup][4][/sup][sup][5][/sup]


If you ask any gay person if they believe they can "Snap" out of it, their answer is no. So you mean to tell me every gay person out there are lying?

Now can you give me any evidence to the contrary? Aside from God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve and mommy and daddy told me Lucifer was gay.

And where does it say that the animal kingdom didn't "chose" to perform acts of bisexuality, be it dominance of others or whatever it may be? Furthermore how can it be proven? And where did I say homosexuality should be forbidden? I do appreciate your use of wikipedia as a source though. And where in the animal kingdom does marriage exist? It is a human social construct developed within society. California society just said marriage is between a man and woman.

LOL I don't think I need to get on Lexis Nexis to get that....it's been documented look it up yourself.

1. The wikipedia bibliography has links to the sources, look them up yourself. Homosexual acts in nature has been well-documented.

here's the full article with sources http://en.wikipedia.org/w...aying_homosexual_behavior

The fact that it has been documented is a diversity of species from fish, to mammals to birds mean there is a genetic component and a reason for itspreservation in nature.

2. Marriage does not exist in nature but monogamous relationships do....I'm not sure why u brought this up we were arguing about whether homosexuality wasa "lifestyle choice".

3. You haven't given me any evidence to the contrary. Why is it a lifestyle? What are the motivations for choosing to sleep with a man as a"lifestyle"?

4. You haven't answered my question as to whether all gay people are lying about "not being able to help it". There is obviously some naturalcompulsion for gay people to be sexually attracted to the same sex. I don't see any benefits in wanting to consciously make a decision although you'reattracted to females, to want to have sex with a man and marry him.


Elaborate on this lifestyle argument...please

. I'm not even surewhat it means.

 

[8tothe24]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by 8tothe24

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by 8tothe24

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by 916JORDANboy

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by 916JORDANboy

Originally Posted by 718stylez

possibly I am ignorant. please explain it to me.

Clearly you have scientific qualifications to make a decision on whether homosexuality is a "lifestyle" or not. I made my point, it's now up to you to digest it. Just as the ideology of homosexuality being perceived as a lifestyle choice is used as an excuse not to give these people an equal right to happiness; during slavery times black where perceived as less than human and were therefore not entitled to basic human rights and were treated like animals.

Sry about the run-on sentence.

And you are ready to provide proof that it isn't a "lifestyle" choice? See how easy that was. Doesn't believe what NT majority does, so that makes him wrong. Hmmm... sounds familiar.

It exists in nature:

Homosexual, as well as bisexual, behavior is widespread in the animal kingdom. Animal sexual behavior takes many different forms, even within the same species and the motivations for and implications of their behaviors have yet to be fully understood as most species have yet to be studied.[sup][3][/sup] A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior, not necessarily sex, has been observed in close to 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them.[sup][4][/sup][sup][5][/sup]


If you ask any gay person if they believe they can "Snap" out of it, their answer is no. So you mean to tell me every gay person out there are lying?

Now can you give me any evidence to the contrary? Aside from God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve and mommy and daddy told me Lucifer was gay.

And where does it say that the animal kingdom didn't "chose" to perform acts of bisexuality, be it dominance of others or whatever it may be? Furthermore how can it be proven? And where did I say homosexuality should be forbidden? I do appreciate your use of wikipedia as a source though. And where in the animal kingdom does marriage exist? It is a human social construct developed within society. California society just said marriage is between a man and woman.

LOL I don't think I need to get on Lexis Nexis to get that....it's been documented look it up yourself.

1. The wikipedia bibliography has links to the sources, look them up yourself. Homosexual acts in nature has been well-documented.

here's the full article with sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behaviorhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w...aying_homosexual_behavior

The fact that it has been documented is a diversity of species from fish, to mammals to birds mean there is a genetic component and a reason for its preservation in nature.

2. Marriage does not exist in nature but monogamous relationships do....I'm not sure why u brought this up we were arguing about whether homosexuality was a "lifestyle choice".

3. You haven't given me any evidence to the contrary. Why is it a lifestyle? What are the motivations for choosing to sleep with a man as a "lifestyle"?

4. You haven't answered my question as to whether all gay people are lying about "not being able to help it". There is obviously some natural compulsion for gay people to be sexually attracted to the same sex. I don't see any benefits in wanting to consciously make a decision although you're attracted to females, to want to have sex with a man and marry him.


Elaborate on this lifestyle argument...please

. I'm not even sure what it means.

I will start with what you said last. As a lifestyle choice, I can't elaborate on that for you; hence the reason I quoted it because the term is beingthrown around loosely. My point is that people want to dismiss those that voted for prop 8 as religious zealots, yet there is no proof to support eitherargument. As for homosexuality, I have no problem with people being gay/lesbian whatever. As for #1, a lot of those links is dismissing animal behavior ashomosexuality; again I don't see how the human species can correctly interpret what another species intentions are. And, other of these species have theability to change sex and not all species share the same sexual designs. #2 is the issue that Ober. is arguing about, that is the reason for this thread. #3,if I could explain that too you I would have won a Nobel prize and this wouldn't even be up for discussion; but my point is people are arguing your sideact as if they had the answers to everything. #4, again this cannot be proven. Are people gay? Of course. The argument is the construct of marriage. Marriage was defined by the people of California as between a man and woman. Why? Because society determined it to be so. Marriage has always been atraditional establishment as a foundation of family within a society.

Here comes the reality check. Despite what people are trying to make you believe, no one is trying to outlaw homosexuality and despite Olbermanns crocodilestears (for ratings), no one is trying to deny anyone else "love," and no one said you can't be with whom you want and partake in whateverpractices you want. It comes down to financial responsibilities. Yes, this is all about $$$$$. Marriage gives powers to the spouse over many things. Thetrue focus should be on this issue. I believe that homosexual couple should have every legal right that heterosexual couple should have regarding lifedecisions and inheritances. But to make this about "marriage" distorts the truth. It is about tax exemptions and other benefits. As with anypolitical group, they want you to think this is about a social construct when it is really about the benefits of that social construct.

My opinion is that legal benefits should be allowed to any couple that wishes to be together. But to attack theestablishment of marriage and to put the blame on religious zealots is atrocious. I know it is socially acceptable to dismiss religion to blame but in thiscase it is wrong. It just so happens that religion puts much value on the establishment of marriage. Do religious people always respect the establishment ofmarriage? No, no group lives up to what their stereotype or expectation is.

Edit: #1, for clarification their is no evidence that homosexuality is genetic. These are opinions of researchers andjust as many researchers argue the opposite. Furthermore, Darwinism says that if homosexuality was genetic, the genes would have been evolved out of naturedue to the inability to reproduce. Homosexual recessive genes would have been eliminated from the gene pool. Now if you want to argue hormonal changes due toenvironment, this is more plausible. But that infers that homosexuality is a defect and I will not say nor condone that.

 

[ninjallamafromhell]

What a little cry baby. Maybe I should get on TV and get all misty eyed over my right to bear arms being slowly taken away. Maybe I'll cry a little over myhunting and fishing right slowly disappearing. It's taking away my happiness and my rights, and I was as much born liking guns, hunting, and fishing asmuch as gays are. Oh wait...forgot all that makes me evil and unlikable by all. People suck.

 

[antonlavey]

Whether governed by nature (genetics) or nurture (environment, hormones), it should be clear that there is no on and off switch forhomosexuality. Homosexuality is way too common among humans and across species to be a genetic aberration. In nature there are behaviors that offer no directfitness benefits to the individual but propagate familial genes. Some organisms tend to exhibit strategies that favor the reproductive success of theirrelatives, even at a cost to their own survival and/or reproduction. In an insect colony sterile females act as workers to help their mother in the productionof extra offspring. This is an example of "KIN SELECTION", where there is an indirect fitness benefit to the individual.

There is an equation that predicts the adaptivity of a behavior, using coefficients of relatedness. You have 0.5 relatedness to your children and 0.25 to yournephews and nieces. It is possible for forgoing having your own children and helping your sister raise her children to be more adaptive and therefore such abehavior would be selected for under natural selection

I hope thatmakes sense, i'm tired.

It is a possibility that homosexual animals serve the same purpose as sterile females in insect colonies.

 

[az005us]

Originally Posted by KICKS OFF

@ another Keith Olbermann exploitation for ratings rant. why didn't he cry for help for the gays during the election?...

%@$+

 

[the jersey shirt]

alot of interesting points made her.

I feel gay people shoud be allowed to marry because as I see it marriage has been used in place of civil unions for as long as I can remember. the wholeconcept of civil unions was neevr even really addressed in modern popular culture until gay people reawly started maknig strong oushes to get married

I claim no religion, but I don't expect to not be allowed to have a traditional mariage because of it, and to be honest if the situation eevr arrises Idon't think I will not be allowed to. I'd go so far as to say well over half of traditional marriages have litte to do with god and religion nowadaysanyways.

I agree with kieth olberman 100%. Just like him I have NO vested interest in the issue, I simply feel if it will make people happy and it clearly doesn'thurt anyone else why not.

Maybe the exit poles are skewed and the gay comunitee didn't reach out enough to the black a lain communities, but I don't really tink that matters. Idon't understand why any minority person, who have had to struggle for years, or any person at all, wouldwant to see another not get what they want anddeserve. I don't see the needto liken the struggle directly to cival rights, or anything else. Bottom line is why fight against anyone struggling againstsomething so trivial. No ones saying you have to go to the weddings or even be part of a church which preforms gay marraiges, but why stand in the way?

I just don't see how gays marrying attacks tradtional marraige at all? i dont see why any american would prevent another americans pursuit of happiness.

maybe because i'm not religious, or wasn't around to experience the cival rights movement, or am not worried about havin a gay child, or even acceptingone if I do have one, that it just doesn't make sense to me

I dunno, and i still dont understand why minorities are so upset at their desire for rights being likened to gay peoples. I'm not afraid of having mystruggles compared to taht of gay peoples. It doesn't make me GAY or cheapen the strugglem maybe some people can explain more directly to me.

I guess I also don't get why people feel so satisfied to vote directly towards their religious beliefs. If your religion tells you Gay people will go tohell $#@! it, let them be happy here, and suffer in hell. Whats the draws to try to allow your chosen religious law dictate actually american constitutionallaw? Where is the correlation? If people are going to be punished regardless why even get involved, its almost like being one of the people to throw stones atjesus

 

[producedbythejuice]

Originally Posted by ninjallamafromhell

What a little cry baby. Maybe I should get on TV and get all misty eyed over my right to bear arms being slowly taken away. Maybe I'll cry a little over my hunting and fishing right slowly disappearing. It's taking away my happiness and my rights, and I was as much born liking guns, hunting, and fishing as much as gays are. Oh wait...forgot all that makes me evil and unlikable by all. People suck.

Somehow, this just doesn't add up correctly. It's not like your second amendment rights are being taken away, and remain with someone else. It'smore like people are uncomfortable with the proliferation of firearms in our society and realize that the second amendment was added to our constitution toallow militias to form in case they needed to defend themselves against the government, not so you could "hunt and fish".

What if they only let gay people have guns but everyone else, including you, weren't allowed to have them? Wouldn't that get you all fired up andpissed off?

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Originally Posted by TkTheGirl

The black people did vote voted because they don't equate the discrimination they receive from their skin color to discrimination you receive from your sexual preference when they find out what your sexual preference is. The no to prop 8 campaign failed miserably trying to reach out to any community they weren't comfortable near. As I stated before the California Gay community shown was mostly white and asian I don't see how they would even think that the black and hispanic community would see this as their problem.
Not only that there are people out their who don't equate the gay lifestyle as a death sentence of a lifestyle. I personally know two older women who dated women for 10 years or more and after they broke up went back to men with no hesitation. They happen to fall in love with those women.
There is a combination of both people who choose to be with the same sex person and those who who felt it was natural from the beginning.

This is the 2nd time you've used your friends as an example and I'm just as perplexed. So you've never heard of bisexuality whereyou're from?

 

[ryda421]

equal rights ftw

 

[southzeztpdot]

I dont see whats the problem with this. If the majority of people dont want to see gay people getting married than they dont. Its going to cause more problemsif the government does something the majority of people dont want to see. Gay people just take the L and keep it moving.

 

[daytona 5000]

8tothe24 made the strongest points i think of everyone arguing the fact. marriage is a religious institution between a man and woman. if they want to keep thatdefinition of marriage, gay people should be able to have civil unions with the same exact rights and benefits as married couples. if people deny them thatthan they are just being cold hearted

and off topic i never knew neil patrick harris was gay. surprisef me

 

[snaggykicks]

Originally Posted by jpap348

Keith dropping knowledge and educating the masses

 

[lnmymind]

Originally Posted by WinstonDon

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

Originally Posted by MrBen23

Is Keith gay? I seriously don't know.

Can't someone defend gays and not be gay?

no

 

[718stylez]

Edit: #1, for clarification their is no evidence that homosexuality is genetic. These are opinions of researchers and just as many researchers argue the opposite.
There is strong evidence to support the theory that homosexuality is biological. I've never heard ofany credible researcher who denies this.

 

[prurientsole]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

sigh....all these posts turn into the same argument.

Sine, cosine, and tangent.

And it always ends up turning into a black vs. gay thing.

 

[tkthegirl]

Originally Posted by ScottHallWithAPick

Originally Posted by TkTheGirl

The black people did vote voted because they don't equate the discrimination they receive from their skin color to discrimination you receive from your sexual preference when they find out what your sexual preference is. The no to prop 8 campaign failed miserably trying to reach out to any community they weren't comfortable near. As I stated before the California Gay community shown was mostly white and asian I don't see how they would even think that the black and hispanic community would see this as their problem.
Not only that there are people out their who don't equate the gay lifestyle as a death sentence of a lifestyle. I personally know two older women who dated women for 10 years or more and after they broke up went back to men with no hesitation. They happen to fall in love with those women.
There is a combination of both people who choose to be with the same sex person and those who who felt it was natural from the beginning.

This is the 2nd time you've used your friends as an example and I'm just as perplexed. So you've never heard of bisexuality where you're from?

Neither female claim bisexuality or have any intentions to date women ever again. Both stated that the women hey dated for all those years are the only womenthey would date like that, because they were the only women they ever fell in love with. There are people out there who are choosing homosexuality and peoplewho felt it natural from the beginning. I don't why its impossible for it to be two of those situations. You want people to stop looking at homosexualityso black and white, but you describe their lifestyle choice so black and white.