What Happened to Nike SB ???

[chamwilljam23]

Originally Posted by milesofmiles

I'm a Nike SB fan until the day I die. Don't buy every shoe, but I buy the installments I like and they come through once a month at retail price because the homies around my way run the shop the right way. No hype prices, shoes hit shelves the day they're supposed to, not early, not ebay... they have a dope sales rack in the back of the store and it's all for the love of the game. No busting my head to get enough money for the weekly jordan/kobe/lebron/foam limited release for twice as much when I get a shoe that noone else has on anyway... Sneakerheads might be getting away from SB, but I think its because they're going for something else. There are plenty of Hipster/Skater kids among others in the shop 24/7. It's not dead, just changing IMO

WORD!

and EC91- no prob dude. To answer your question- my first pair bought on release date was the "old spice" dunks in 2007- which is y i dont understand what your talkin about as far as quality being gone as of 2006. The old spices were one of the top quality dunks of all time IMO, then I got the PRod II "hatrod's" another TOP quality shoe. From 1993/94 until 2007- I was all about Jordan/Nike Basketball- I still play ball in Jordans and have a few of my fav's though

 

[horatio3435]

I'm glad hype has died, so i can scoop up the one I've wanted on the cheap

 

[elcerrito91]

@Cham and Raydio5, I have bocas, awayguns, and some black and white blazers, but it doesnt really matter that I dont have a lot, since I can take the situation and see whats going on. To cham regarding Old Spices, that is your opinion. Until you can get a majority of SB heads saying that the quality after 05 is the same as 06 then I'm still standing by the opinions of myself and many others. At Raydio5, after reading this tell me your opinion. I know you are right on the ordering, but the only reason Nike SB makes dunks anymore is because shops still order them and dont make it clear that they arent selling, they probably dont because they feel that people will still buy them.
Guys read this and then tell me what you think, I know its long, but its a start.

Ok Brad, sorry for all the long PMs, but I think I've got it this time.
Dunks were bought by skaters back in 02-03. Some of them collected and realized there was a demand for them (people were willing to pay money for them). So naturally they took advantage of this demand and then you have the beeginning of the dunk (sneakerhead) culture and sadly hbs and resellers. Now in 04 SB was still underground, but by 05 and tiffs thats when it blew up. To take advantage of this demand, Nike SB PROBABLLY lowered quality and increased price just to make more money and they PROBABLY thought that we wouldn't mind and would keep buying, which many did, yet people noticed the quality decline.
As 06 progressed, the cws became whacker and whacker not to mention overordered by shops, so the demand on them went down. This trend continued from 07-now, and we are stuck in a stagnation of the dunk SB culture, where there is little demand for the stuff.
Now from a skate point of view, I'll skate strummers just fine, but honestly I dont like the new dunks and also I have found that other SB models notably Blazers and Janos are better for the value and price. Not to mention other brands such Adidas and their Businetz or Vans and their Half Cab. These are the shoes skaters are skating, not dunks. Probably the majority of people who buy dunks are either hbs or sneakerheads, very few of them are skaters. Now when I say skaters I am talking about people who dont collect at all. I know there are some sneakerheads who still skate dunks, we being two of them haha, and are not just in it for the collecting, but I would say that the majority of sneakerheads don't skate.
Because dunks are not being purchased by skaters (my definition) nor sneakerheads as shown by the lack of dunks on skaters' feet in many places and the obvious lack in collecting, Nike SB is kind of slow to catch on to the situation and if they were paying attention to who actually buys their dunks they would change. Shops who know "whats up" in terms of dunks, should know that skaters aren't buying them, so why do they continue to encourage Nike SB to make them by continuing to order them?
Shops whether in the know or not, order dunks because they feel that people will buy. Shops in the know, feel sneakerheads will buy where as shops who dont know, will order because they think people will buy them, not knowing that sneakerheads and not skaters are the main consumer.
So the situation comes down to this, if you were Nike SB would you kill the culture (sneakerheads) by discontinuing the dunk or would you cater to them by raising quality, limiting pairs (quantity), and making "dope" cws that people fiend after? Yes while Nike SB is a skate company first, the dunk had its price raised because sneakerheads primarily were buying them 04-05, and not because actual skaters (my defifinition) were.
I dont think it is wise for Nike SB to cut off sneakerheads by cutting the dunk, but I dont think its wise to have a low quality skate shoe priced at 8 dollars higher than competition and expect skaters (my definition) to buy them either especially when the competition is in some cases better skatewise, IE Businetz etc. So what I'[m getting at is that Nike SB created this dilemma for themselves by thinking that skaters were actually buying in 05, even though we know who was the main consumer. Because they raised the price and catered to the demand, they made sneakerheads an ever lurking group who will always be there as long as the dunk is around, in the hope that the hype, cws, and quality would return.
Its a conflict of interest really, do they want to cater to skaters with the dunk (probably, but to do so they need to lower the price), OR do they want to cater to collectors and limit pairs to create demand (probably because there is money in it), or do they want to rid themselves of sneakerheads by discontinuing the dunk (I dont think so because the dunk is their staple, but by discontinuing it, they would truly be a skate-oriented only brand).
Regardless of which choice they make, I feel that quality should be raised to 05 standards at least, in terms of heel padding and materials (soft suede like Crystals, leather, nubuck, and medicom 2 quality denim) because everyone knows Nike SB was best in terms of quality back then whether their a skater or sneakerhead.
Which choice do you think is best even though I know which choice you (we, both as skaters and sneakerheads haha) would want?
Thanks Brad,
-EC91

also @sneakermane:IMO those dont appeal to a wide enough audience, and even if they do, there are too many pairs on market, thus why they are only 75 on ebay, not even retail.

 

[chamwilljam23]

So you're really only basing YOUR opinions on what everybody else is telling you then.

"those dont appeal to a wide enough audience, and even if they do, there are too many pairs on market, thus why they are only 75 on ebay, not even retail"
So if they were goin for 300-400 on ebay- then they'd be worthy? It really shouldnt matter how many pairs are released or how exclusive they are, or how high the price is etc. Just buy what you like, cuz your logic is totally backwards- and your conflicted.
and Nike doesn't give a crap what you think - they're gettin mega-bucks and would be fine without SB's completely. Luckily for Nike, there's dudes out there just like you that do whatever they're told- without question- kinda like a robot

Im out like the Nugget's in the playoffs.

 

[elcerrito91]

No, here's the thing, Nike SB dunks arent sought after if they arent limited (compare neon j packs to liberties), and that has little to do with resale value. The reason prices are so high is because people are willing to pay that much for the cw, quality, etc, but they still like the shoe otherwise why would they buy them for resale prices?

In terms of today's SB culture, a shoe isnt sought after if it isnt limited meaning people wont fiend over it if there are no people without pairs who are willing to pay. So basically a shoe has to be limited (there has to be more people wanting then there are pairs) for it to be sought after, but of course the shoe still has to be liked by a majority of people for this to happen. BTW liked and sought after are two different things

Do you see what I'm saying? I'm not advocating on behalf of sneakerheads, I'm advocating on what Nike SB will benefit most from if they bring back 05 quality, limit pairs, and produce POPULAR cws that people fiend over. Nike SB has no reason not to cater to both groups, skaters with Janos, Blazers,HOPEFULLY Koston 1s, and dunks....and sneakerheads (a lot of the heads who collected skated too btw) with dunks. And shops have no reason to object because all or most their product from Nike SB would sell and they wouldnt risk losing money by having to put dunks on sale.

And on quality: A majority of people would rather have 05 quality than the stuff they have now, this cannot be argued.

 

[430AM]

I wish I could pick up some Diamonds for NOT $550.

   

 

[elcerrito91]

Nobody likes to, but they dont complain either because that is what the market is willing to pay whether you like it or not. And honestly 550 isnt even max market value. Nobody said sneaker collecting was a cheap hobby. It takes money, these days.

 

[mayhemgatz]

Originally Posted by elcerrito91

Nobody said sneaker collecting was a cheap hobby. It takes money, these days.

....and that is exactly what's wrong with the entire sneaker culture, at some point it's gotta be about more than money cause in reality....they're just shoes

 

[elcerrito91]

Nowadays, it is still about the shoes, money is just a byproduct. The culture is still there, the money is people just taking advantage of the desire for popular kicks.

 

[mayhemgatz]

exactly...people "taking advantage"...

 

[ayipapi]

I can't believe this thread is STILL going..are you TRYING to raise your post count for some specific reason???? Cause honestly that's all your really accomplishing here...

 

[elcerrito91]

No I am trying to prove a point, I dont need high post count (it doesnt mean anything, since I have a low one and yet you can see that I know a lot of stuff about SBs)...ayipapi, since you work at a shop, can you tell me if skaters are buying dunks to skate in or does my assertion hold true? Skaters have cheaper alternatives to dunks and will skate a 60-75 dollar shoe (Blazers, Janos, Businetz, and most other shoes) as opposed to an 83-109 dollar shoe? Is this true or what?

Also since dunks havent seemed to be very profitable for shops, why do you think shops still order them from Nike SB? Do they think that hopefully the next month's cw will be popular or what? AND do you think most shops "know" whats up in regards to collectors (yes i know some collectors skate, I being one of them) and dunks or would you say that the average skate shop still thinks that only skaters buy dunks?

Oh and a little bit ago, you asked why people are paying 175 for Liberty's (they are about 200 resale right now), they do so because the cw appeals to a large amount of people and they are limited meaning there are more people than pairs, this is proof that SB still has potential.
Thanks Ayipapi,
-EC91

 

[ayipapi]

This thread is like a bad dream I keep getting pulled into....

A. No one said dunks were NOT profitable...so please STOP it..just cause they sit longer doesn't mean they don't eventually sell...Quantites are increased but not to the level of a GR so even if they sit for a couple month theres still a profit to both Nike as well as the retailer...

B. My example with the liberties is to try and explain to YOU that you are all about they hype..like the rest of the little kids running around here...Your knowledge about sneakers is limited to what someone tells you or told you...buy what you like...Nike SB was dope not because you and your green eyed crew hyped them up but because they had creative colorway and sneakers were a slight more comfortable then GR dunks..period..end of story...Until Supreme (Cements) and Jeff and his Pigeons created hysteria..no one outside of small communities even knew Nike HAD a skateboard line...

C. Do me a HUGE favor..please stop posting this QUALITY nonsense...its actually be coming annoying at this point...you don't have ANY clue what your talking about...you keep saying 05/06...explain to me how (and I'll only refer to a couple dunks from the past year and half since you think that's all the line is about) Brainwrecks...Miss Pacmans...Skunks....Sea Crystal mids....Bloody Gums....Angels and Demons...Purple Denims...some of the best produced SNEAKERS of the past two years (maybe period cause I've NEVER heard of someone comparing dunks) sucked in quality??????????? You can make the argument that you didn't like the color ways...but quality???? What the hell are you talking about???????

I and others in here are done with this conversation..cause honestly your just gonna keep trying to argue your point and asking the SAME questions even though we are providing you with an answer....your knowledge on this subject is ignorance at best but you speak like an expert and that is just sad...

 

[elcerrito91]

My point is that shops would be more profitable with hyped up pairs since all of them would go for retail price. And you said yourself, Nike SB makes its money when shops order, shops just resell the stuff to the consumer. I am a skater first dude, I knew SB existed from my first Transworld back in March of 2002, Josh Kalis bluntside down the orange jersey barrier, article were Rodney Mullen and company to Russia. Check it and you'll see I'm right. I remember the ads, "my first sponsor" etc. I know whats up with SB. I'm not just some hype kid who jumped on after they became profitable to collectors (who mostly were skaters, and I honestly think the majority still are, but there certainly has been an increase in posers and hbs).

My knowledge of sneakers was built through personal experience, learning on my own, and then lastly forums. I do buy what I like, I ALWAYS have. I didnt buy liberties because I didnt want them. NIKE SB was dope because the cws were and the quality was high, but their popularity and growth stemmed not from skaters skating them, but by collectors hyping them and selling them for large amounts of money. You say "Supremes (lows)" led to the hype, thats not true, sea crystals in 04 werent even during the hype (I remember distinctly because they were one of the few dunks from that era to be sold in CCS, I always regret not buying them from CCS, in fact I still have the catalog, which I look at from time to time and wonder "what if" (I was only 13 at the time).

What I mean on hype is, only after tiffs, thats when things blew up. Thats when gimicks started (cws moved away from skate oriented to more non skate themes IE in 02 there were chocolates (RIP Keenan Milton), Zoo Yorks (Richard Mulder deck), denim Forbes (NATAS KAUPAS designed along with Reese) BUT after the Diamond Collab in 05 and the shoe resembled a tiffany box, thats when themes started to diminish (very slightly, 06 had the drop off) and hbs really jumped on for good. Union owner said it himself in a quote that was posted on 5th Dimension (a once popular forum), "Vapors were for the people that didnt want to deal with the hype of tiffs" as I can remember, he said something like that, I'm remembering off the dome.

In regards to quality, I will hold off, BUT, from talking to people and reading forums, and even wearing my bocas as opposed to 07 stummers, which I bought for 50 and skated to death till there were holes on both sides and the leather on the toebox was completely unstitched, I have learned that the quality of materials has seemed to decline. Just compare crystal suede to say oceanic suede or loon suede. Also read this from my friend....

Proof that quality declined - a lot of it is down to opinion but you can prove that;
if people think the 'soft feel' and 'much more padding' of the heel area of dunks (mainly highs) is a concern - just look at an older dunk and compare it to a new.
and the same with materials - look at the crystals and a recent all suede shoe, the same for leather etc.
Skaters aren't buying dunks -
1. the fact that shops here have told me they are actually declining dunk orders as much as they can/totally because they can't sell enough to bother stocking
2. the possibility that we will be getting less dunk releases than usual over in Europe (must be because of declining sales)
3. go to a skate park and see what Nike SBs are being skated - you'll find 5 janoski's before you come across 1 dunk IMO.


Ayipapi can you please answer me this, why are you so reluctant for Nike SB to try to cater to sneakerheads?

Also why wont you acknowledge my comments on the cheaper alternatives such as Busenitz, Janos, and Blazers which many skaters still buy for skating where as it is clear that the dunk isnt really bought by skaters for skating, at least not at my shop (they still have Loons, Unlodens (from OCTOBER), and a few others. I mean its pretty clear from my experience that dunks arent really selling all that much. Please enlighten me on the sales in your area and if you think they do indeed sell and are purchased by skaters.

Why cant NIKE SB either discontinue the dunk, lower its price so skaters will be more likely to buy, OR just do what they've apparently been trying to do and that is appeal to the sneakerhead? Do you really think that if they were appealing to skaters that they would limit pairs ot certain numbers to try and increase hype? No. I say this because skaters dont care about hype, we just want a good shoe to skate at an affordable price. You should know that working at a shop.

If Nike SB truly wants to cater to sneakerheads with dunks, then they seriously need to increase the padding/ materials to 05 standards, collab or at least find a new mind to think of creative cws with deep themes that we can relate to, AND limit pairs because look at unlodens, these are pretty popular among the forums but because they are so abundant (FAULT is the shops for OVERORDERING) nobody wants them and thus they continue to sit at least at my shop. Events like the DXC (Dunkxchange), Sneaker Pimps, etc wouldnt exist if their wasnt a demand for SB dunks, and by Nike SB not catering to collectors, they are seriously killing a culture, a culture that allowed them to raise price to 83 and continue to make money off of shops that dont know any better and who actually think that dunks will sell, whether it be to collectors or to skaters. You read this and tell me that Nike SB is doing the right thing by having unsought after cws, over abundance of pairs because shops still think they sell (yes a few do, but if they were ordered in fewer pairs there would be little concern about lack of sales since the demand would be there, and lowered quality (read description from quote for more on this) when compared to 05?



Now I say they should cater to collectors because as long as they keep the dunk in their line, collectors will always be watching and waiting for the chance that the hype will return. SO IF NIKE SB wants to be truly a skate only brand and rid itself of this dilemma that it got itself into back in 05/06 with limited pairs, they will need to cut the dunk from their line to end collectors hopes of a return to the way things should have always stayed.

As long as cws are overordered, even if cw is good pairs will sit, all shops should try to underorder so there are no to few pairs sitting.
PLEASE RESPOND TO ALL MY POINTS AYIPAPI, I'M CURIOUS WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.
-EC91

 

[ayipapi]

Jesus...your only 17/18...wow..its ALL making sense now...conversation over...come back when you got some hair on your face....

Dude I got sneakers older then you..no wonder you think Dunks started with SB..

 

[elcerrito91]

I'm 19 years old, but regardless of age I still know my stuff. I still know how business works. Can you answer me this, please Ayipapi?
I know skate shops want to cater to skaters only, but dunks are only going to be bought by skaters if their price is lowered. If I wasnt a collector, I would rather want dunks to be around 75 dollars than 83-109 as they are now. So my question to you is would you as a shop worker want the dunk to cater to skaters only, but risk losing possible profit since the price per pair is lower (probably you wouldnt need to put as many pairs on sales racks and would make more overall profit since most of the dunks would go for retail, $75.) OR would you rather have Nike SB put under pressure to make popular cws in limited runs that would cater to collectors? Honestly if Nike SB could make the "dope" cws in limited runs and have them priced at 83-109, this would be the obvious choice for shops since they would make more overall profit, BUT here's the thing, the shoes would only be profitable if they were "dope" and limited to collectors. So because of the risk that the shoe wont be "dope", I feel that the best option is for shops to tell Nike SB what's going on and have them lower the price on dunks so that skaters would be more likely to buy them, because even if cw wasnt "dope" to us, I think skaters would buy them up anyways and therefore shops would almost guarantee a profit.

What do you think?
-EC91

 

[verse001]

EC91 are you also sfkicks on n-sb?

 

[boogeda]

on pg 1 pics: those were the good ol' days of sbs.

unfortunately designs lately haven't been on par with the exception of less than a handful of recent releases.

my take is sb has become an established skating shoe that collabs have lessen compared to the days when they were still bulding their name in the skate scene and collaborating with the likes of supreme and diamond supply co was beneficial in increasing their credibility.

 

[elcerrito91]

HAHAHA verse, i dont l know anyone who is as dedicated to getting SB back as I am, if so I'd want to meet them, no doubt its me. hey verse, send me a PM on NSB, I have some questions for you, thanks dude.

@ayipapi see last page for my response

 

[chamwilljam23]

dang elcerrito91, not sure y I clicked back on this thread- but your still goin
GIFSoup

 

[elcerrito91]

hey ayipapi read this and also respond to my last post (one page back)

I have a few things to say, its not Nike SB that makes its money from us. They make their money from shops since shops "buy" (order) from Nike SB, and then the shops "resell" to us. However because shops still "buy" from Nike hoping that the consumer (for dunks, honestly its mainly collectors)will like them. Now since shops have the ability to determine the quantity and not Nike SB (as they did up to 05), they tend to order too many pairs which they can't sell. This is why, with the current pricing on dunks, many shops have pairs sitting.
So in your experience do you see a difference in quality both in regards to quality of materials (ie softness of suede of sea crystals as compared with post 05 suede OR medicom 2 denim as compared with larry perkins denim)as well as a decrease or difference in the padding in the heel area of all dunks (high, mid, and low)?
In regards to your Jordan statement, the people that buy Jordans are not collectors they are people that dont know whats up in terms of what, we, sneakerheads, do. i know this from observation and personal experience. Where as with dunk SBs, the majority of the people who buy are hbs and collectors, but rarely skaters.
So in terms of Nike making money off dunks, yes they are, but its not because the public is buying them, its because shops order them in the hope that someone will buy them, but since cws are whack to a majority, pairs are over-ordered (saturated market) by shops, and quality is apparently lower, collectors arent buying. And since the average skate shoe is cheaper, skaters arent buying either.
So in order for skaters to buy dunks price should be lowered (skaters generally dont care about cw, so by catering to skaters, Nike SB would take the pressure off themselves to try in terms of cws really. And in order for collectors to buy dunks, cws need to be better, pairs need to be ordered in smaller amounts (i think Nike SB should dictate the quantity as they did until 2006), and in either case quality needs to be improved in terms of materials and heel padding. In any case, shops will be better off and as will Nike SB's popularity, so I see no reason why they should keep doing what they are doing, since neither group is happy and shops are suffering.
Do you see what I'm saying?

 

[verse001]

 

[king93]

What happen to sb? stop being creative and stop using the materials that made sbs so "sick" and start depending on just the name selling the shoes..problem is skaters stop #@++%% wit sbs cuz they didnt skate as well as vans, enties, fallen,etc. which is why they changed the bottom and what not.

 

[milesofmiles]

Stopped by my skateshop since I was home for spring break and I'd have to say SB is being slept on or rather just not known about to most because the Janoski's are FIIRREEE!! copped and will be copping many, many more for the summer...

 

[DownByLaw]

EC91 I can't say that I agree with you, but I do recognize your passion. I have always been a fan of the SB and will continue to purchase the cw's that drop that I like. Good luck with your crusade my man.