Announcing album leaks will get you banned.

I sincerely hope all you've ever heard were 5 rappers if Em is in your "top 5 DOA". Em isn't top 5.... maybe top 10 white rappers (Let'snot even get into rappers period). This is being generous seeing as to how washed up he is now.
 
Originally Posted by M16

I sincerely hope all you've ever heard were 5 rappers if Em is in your "top 5 DOA". Em isn't top 5.... maybe top 10 white rappers (Let's not even get into rappers period). This is being generous seeing as to how washed up he is now.
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Okay...I was semi-agreeing with your posts before...but you went off the deep end here.

Stop posting.
 
How have I gone off the deep end ? Only way I can see people disagreeing is through ignorance or denial and d-riding. Ignoring his popularity and just lookingat him as a rapper... he isn't really worth mention among the likes of serious white rappers like Apathy or Esoteric among others who would shred him if heever got the courage to rap with them. I understand the loyalty to him if he got you into rap, had a huge movie, had a clothing line, sold diamond multipletimes etc and you go into it putting him on such a high pedestal, but in reality, there are plenty of better rappers who were doing it before Em finished gradeschool and unlike Em, they had enough self dignity to not sell out.

I was watching his making the video of that garbage song of his on MTV at my cousins house and Em himself was saying "don't confuse this for hiphop... this is NOT rap" etc. He knows it himself. It's a joke now about seeing how much money he can make off of Joe and Bob Smith in Idaho. Whatevertalent he had back then is about what the above average to average underground white rapper has. Kids who have heard 20 albums in their lives are more thanhappy to crown him as GOAT, top 5 whatever it is; but very rarely if ever will a more knowledgeable rap fan have him that high. Same can be said about Jay-Zand a few other rappers.
 
come on man ... you cant believe that poop you just said ...

Whatever talent he had back then is about what the above average to average underground white rapper has.


just stop homie seriously ...
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How do I not believe what I typed ?
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This can't really be a debate since I doubt dudes replying have heard much of if any of the rappers I'm talking about. Rest are just talking out oftheir %*!$$ with a "if its not popular its not good" attitude. Dudes who have given Em hundreds maybe thousands of spins and the others 0 or singledigits have no room to form opinions.
 
call me whatever you want to call me but i just call it like i hear it ... no im not a "rap connoisseur" and dont listen to countless amounts ofmusic all day ... no i dont scour the globe for underground rappers who could possibly be better than eminem ... but to say that a random average white rapperhas the same skill em does is !+*#%%@ ******ed ...

i have a different taste in rap and i recognize that ... scarface is my favorite rapper and i would put him over jay-z nas and whoever else in terms of mypersonal top rapper list ... but em is that dude from top to bottom and i think he is the best rapper ever ... i have no doubt that some random dude could puta song together and maybe have similar wordplay and what have you, but i find it hard to believe that there is countless people alive who can manipulate theenglish language as well as em does as consistently as he does...

and i didnt know who pharcyde was either ... who gives a %%+%? i grew up on scarface 2pac biggie nas jay-z dmx no limit hot boyz etc... etc... and because ididnt listen to pharcyde i cant have an opinion on rap? i guess i just dont take it as serious as yall do lol
 
I'm a huge Scarface fan too; whatever though, I won't knock you for admitting you don't listen to a lot instead of fronting like most NT'rswould.

If you want PM me and i'll put you on to dudes who have been "manipulating the english language" better than him.... for almost 20 years now,consistently.
 
A couple of the last posts by MEB have been very valid and he's made some accurate points and I think some of yall are mad cuz he's kinda right. Youshouldn't be trying to generalize it and going to either extremes and take it for what it was.
but to say that a random average white rapper has the same skill em does is !+*#%%@ ******ed ...
This is YOUR main problem you're calling rappers you don't listen to average. They're only random to you cuz you haven't heard ofthem before. If you think the likes of Brother Ali or Apathy is average then your opinion is beyond bias and almost worthless to others in an actualargument/debate of MCs. No need to cut down the next man just to hype the other.
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Less than a month left.
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I'm just glad Em is healthy enough to make music, however dark and sadistic it may be.
 
Originally Posted by Master Zik

A couple of the last posts by MEB have been very valid and he's made some accurate points and I think some of yall are mad cuz he's kinda right. You shouldn't be trying to generalize it and going to either extremes and take it for what it was.
but to say that a random average white rapper has the same skill em does is !+*#%%@ ******ed ...
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This is YOUR main problem you're calling rappers you don't listen to average. They're only random to you cuz you haven't heard of them before. If you think the likes of Brother Ali or Apathy is average then your opinion is beyond bias and almost worthless to others in an actual argument/debate of MCs. No need to cut down the next man just to hype the other.
99% of the arguments in the music forum when it comes to underground vs. mainstream span from the fact that one person is arguing who can rapbetter and the other person is arguing who is better at being a rapper. Two VERY different things.

I just find it funny how you "underground" dudes are so quick to call people ignorant and yet ya'll are ignorant of the fact that you'rearguing with someone using a different scale than you. I'm sure there's plenty of underground rappers who are more lyrical than any mainstream rapperbut the lyrics is where their greatness stops. These dudes FAIL in all other areas of being a rapper. Vinnie Paz may rap better, but hes not a better rapper.So while you're praising his ability to rap, someone else is judging him based on his inability to be a rapper. Are ya'll really losing sleep over thefact that in todays rap industry how well someone raps doesnt exactly correlate with whether or not theyre good rappers? Take a breather, do you, and let thenext man do him (PAUSE). At the end of the day, rap exists solely for entertainment purposes.
 
Originally Posted by rare23

Originally Posted by Master Zik

A couple of the last posts by MEB have been very valid and he's made some accurate points and I think some of yall are mad cuz he's kinda right. You shouldn't be trying to generalize it and going to either extremes and take it for what it was.
but to say that a random average white rapper has the same skill em does is !+*#%%@ ******ed ...
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This is YOUR main problem you're calling rappers you don't listen to average. They're only random to you cuz you haven't heard of them before. If you think the likes of Brother Ali or Apathy is average then your opinion is beyond bias and almost worthless to others in an actual argument/debate of MCs. No need to cut down the next man just to hype the other.
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99% of the arguments in the music forum when it comes to underground vs. mainstream span from the fact that one person is arguing who can rap better and the other person is arguing who is better at being a rapper. Two VERY different things.

I just find it funny how you "underground" dudes are so quick to call people ignorant and yet ya'll are ignorant of the fact that you're arguing with someone using a different scale than you. I'm sure there's plenty of underground rappers who are more lyrical than any mainstream rapper but the lyrics is where their greatness stops. These dudes FAIL in all other areas of being a rapper. Vinnie Paz may rap better, but hes not a better rapper. So while you're praising his ability to rap, someone else is judging him based on his inability to be a rapper. Are ya'll really losing sleep over the fact that in todays rap industry how well someone raps doesnt exactly correlate with whether or not theyre good rappers? Take a breather, do you, and let the next man do him (PAUSE). At the end of the day, rap exists solely for entertainment purposes.



GFT
too much emphasis on who is "Top 5 DOA" on NT and not even support for just being a fan of hip-hop. I dont listen to Vinnie Paz, I don't know alot of his songs. But I do acknowledge that he can rap well. I don't shhh on dude just cause he is not mainstream or doesnt have a sample from Kanye on hisrecords. A lot of people bash just cause its not the artist they are into.

with that said:
Gnarls Barkley + The Black Keys > hip-hop
laugh.gif

-The Juice
 
Originally Posted by rare23

Originally Posted by Master Zik

A couple of the last posts by MEB have been very valid and he's made some accurate points and I think some of yall are mad cuz he's kinda right. You shouldn't be trying to generalize it and going to either extremes and take it for what it was.
but to say that a random average white rapper has the same skill em does is !+*#%%@ ******ed ...
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This is YOUR main problem you're calling rappers you don't listen to average. They're only random to you cuz you haven't heard of them before. If you think the likes of Brother Ali or Apathy is average then your opinion is beyond bias and almost worthless to others in an actual argument/debate of MCs. No need to cut down the next man just to hype the other.
Click to expand...
99% of the arguments in the music forum when it comes to underground vs. mainstream span from the fact that one person is arguing who can rap better and the other person is arguing who is better at being a rapper. Two VERY different things.

I just find it funny how you "underground" dudes are so quick to call people ignorant and yet ya'll are ignorant of the fact that you're arguing with someone using a different scale than you. I'm sure there's plenty of underground rappers who are more lyrical than any mainstream rapper but the lyrics is where their greatness stops. These dudes FAIL in all other areas of being a rapper. Vinnie Paz may rap better, but hes not a better rapper. So while you're praising his ability to rap, someone else is judging him based on his inability to be a rapper. Are ya'll really losing sleep over the fact that in todays rap industry how well someone raps doesnt exactly correlate with whether or not theyre good rappers? Take a breather, do you, and let the next man do him (PAUSE). At the end of the day, rap exists solely for entertainment purposes.





Not all underground rappers are only lyrical though, many combine that with beats/flow and are entertaining. Much more entertaining than mainstream now IMO. Itkills me how you flat out say Vinnie Paz "raps better" but isn't a "better rapper" when you said you never heard a single song fromhim.

and yeah, Apathy > Em. From his legendary verses on Psychosocial/Torture Papers to his vicious battling skills to how hard he comes off the dome... he'sa better rapper than Em. Just listen to them side by side.
 
appreciate the time you would take to put me on to whoever meb but i just dont have the time to analyze rap anymore ... i guess the reason why scarface is myfavorite rapper is because when i first got into rap i had the time to analyze and listen more often ... now that im older i just dont have the time to do it...

and this whole debate reminds me of what i would consider my strongest forum, sports ... there are COUNTLESS players who show out on certain teams, in certainarenas, on the playgrounds etc... etc... but they never make it to the league ... theres people in new york who swear they were better than jordan and havehundreds of followers who would agree ... NOT HAPPENING ... you may be able to hit as many jump shots in a row, you may be able to dribble as well, you may beable to win a rec league championship, BUT you will never be as good as Jordan because Jordan made it to the top and you didnt ... for whatever reason ...

i think people forget part of being a rapper, in fact the most important part of being a rapper, is to ENTERTAIN your audience ... no one can entertain asbroad a fan base as eminem can ...
 
I think the whole deal with the pharcyde thing is that too many of you are offering opinions talking about the greatest ever, what he does so well, his placein history of hip hop blah blah...yet you never heard of pharcyde? There are probably a bunch of other significant artists/songs/albums throughout hiphop's history that are way more significant than eminem will ever be, and you simply are not aware. I don't think you can take those opinions asseriously in a discussion like this.
 
Originally Posted by IncredibleEv

I think the whole deal with the pharcyde thing is that too many of you are offering opinions talking about the greatest ever, what he does so well, his place in history of hip hop blah blah...yet you never heard of pharcyde? There are probably a bunch of other significant artists/songs/albums throughout hip hop's history that are way more significant than eminem will ever be, and you simply are not aware. I don't think you can take those opinions as seriously in a discussion like this.
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Exactly. It's like someone saying Lebron James is the GOAT but not knowing who Larry Bird is. Or a boxing fan saying Tyson is the GOAT but never havingheard of Sugar Ray Robinson... it just makes it hard to care about anything else you have to say.
 
Originally Posted by M16

Originally Posted by rare23

Originally Posted by Master Zik

A couple of the last posts by MEB have been very valid and he's made some accurate points and I think some of yall are mad cuz he's kinda right. You shouldn't be trying to generalize it and going to either extremes and take it for what it was.
but to say that a random average white rapper has the same skill em does is !+*#%%@ ******ed ...
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Click to expand...
This is YOUR main problem you're calling rappers you don't listen to average. They're only random to you cuz you haven't heard of them before. If you think the likes of Brother Ali or Apathy is average then your opinion is beyond bias and almost worthless to others in an actual argument/debate of MCs. No need to cut down the next man just to hype the other.
Click to expand...
99% of the arguments in the music forum when it comes to underground vs. mainstream span from the fact that one person is arguing who can rap better and the other person is arguing who is better at being a rapper. Two VERY different things.

I just find it funny how you "underground" dudes are so quick to call people ignorant and yet ya'll are ignorant of the fact that you're arguing with someone using a different scale than you. I'm sure there's plenty of underground rappers who are more lyrical than any mainstream rapper but the lyrics is where their greatness stops. These dudes FAIL in all other areas of being a rapper. Vinnie Paz may rap better, but hes not a better rapper. So while you're praising his ability to rap, someone else is judging him based on his inability to be a rapper. Are ya'll really losing sleep over the fact that in todays rap industry how well someone raps doesnt exactly correlate with whether or not theyre good rappers? Take a breather, do you, and let the next man do him (PAUSE). At the end of the day, rap exists solely for entertainment purposes.
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Not all underground rappers are only lyrical though, many combine that with beats/flow and are entertaining. Much more entertaining than mainstream now IMO. It kills me how you flat out say Vinnie Paz "raps better" but isn't a "better rapper" when you said you never heard a single song from him.

and yeah, Apathy > Em. From his legendary verses on Psychosocial/Torture Papers to his vicious battling skills to how hard he comes off the dome... he's a better rapper than Em. Just listen to them side by side.
I don't have to listen to Vinnie Paz to know who a better rapper is. The better rapper is obviously the one who was able to translate their"rapper-ness" into commercial success. Yeah, your boy might have the skills you mentioned, but those skills aren't at the frontlines ofimportance when it comes to being a rapper.
Being a rapper is the whole package, someone who can draw an audience thanks to some innate ability that can't be put into words. Your boy Paz lacks inthat department and therefore only like 26 dudes are tryna hear what the ol' cup cake eatin' motha !!%!## is saying. Simply said, Paz is not good atbeing a rapper because getting people to talk about you and maintaining a certain image is part of being a rapper.
 
Originally Posted by rare23

Originally Posted by M16

Originally Posted by rare23

Originally Posted by Master Zik

A couple of the last posts by MEB have been very valid and he's made some accurate points and I think some of yall are mad cuz he's kinda right. You shouldn't be trying to generalize it and going to either extremes and take it for what it was.
but to say that a random average white rapper has the same skill em does is !+*#%%@ ******ed ...
Click to expand...
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This is YOUR main problem you're calling rappers you don't listen to average. They're only random to you cuz you haven't heard of them before. If you think the likes of Brother Ali or Apathy is average then your opinion is beyond bias and almost worthless to others in an actual argument/debate of MCs. No need to cut down the next man just to hype the other.
Click to expand...
99% of the arguments in the music forum when it comes to underground vs. mainstream span from the fact that one person is arguing who can rap better and the other person is arguing who is better at being a rapper. Two VERY different things.

I just find it funny how you "underground" dudes are so quick to call people ignorant and yet ya'll are ignorant of the fact that you're arguing with someone using a different scale than you. I'm sure there's plenty of underground rappers who are more lyrical than any mainstream rapper but the lyrics is where their greatness stops. These dudes FAIL in all other areas of being a rapper. Vinnie Paz may rap better, but hes not a better rapper. So while you're praising his ability to rap, someone else is judging him based on his inability to be a rapper. Are ya'll really losing sleep over the fact that in todays rap industry how well someone raps doesnt exactly correlate with whether or not theyre good rappers? Take a breather, do you, and let the next man do him (PAUSE). At the end of the day, rap exists solely for entertainment purposes.
Click to expand...


Not all underground rappers are only lyrical though, many combine that with beats/flow and are entertaining. Much more entertaining than mainstream now IMO. It kills me how you flat out say Vinnie Paz "raps better" but isn't a "better rapper" when you said you never heard a single song from him.

and yeah, Apathy > Em. From his legendary verses on Psychosocial/Torture Papers to his vicious battling skills to how hard he comes off the dome... he's a better rapper than Em. Just listen to them side by side.
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I don't have to listen to Vinnie Paz to know who a better rapper is. The better rapper is obviously the one who was able to translate their "rapper-ness" into commercial success.


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Using your logic Lil Wayne or Eminem > Kool G Rap/Big L/KRS-One/Big Pun/Rakim/GZA etc etc etc
 
see man thats why people get turned off by you ... you just re-post part of what someone says and post a bunch of emoticons like its cool ... dude has a verysolid point ...

TO YOU meb, a rapper is simply someone who has the talent to rip some mixtapes and put together all these abstract rhymes and metaphors and whatever else youlike ...

TO MANY OTHERS, a rapper is someone who can make a solid album, reach the mainstream audiences while still ripping *%*! ... i dont want to search high and lowfor some underground dude who simply sits there and thinks of the best way he can do something without getting noticed cuz hes too hood or real for that lol...

its like james white claiming to be the best dunker on the planet ... yeah you can do ALL the dunks MJ and Vince and whoever else did, but guess what, youvenever done them on the biggest stages ... so therefore, you are not the best dunker in the world ... how many licks does it take to get to the center of atootsie roll pop? the world may never know ...
 
Originally Posted by LilStarZ07

see man thats why people get turned off by you ... you just re-post part of what someone says and post a bunch of emoticons like its cool ... dude has a very solid point ...

TO YOU meb, a rapper is simply someone who has the talent to rip some mixtapes and put together all these abstract rhymes and metaphors and whatever else you like ...

TO MANY OTHERS, a rapper is someone who can make a solid album, reach the mainstream audiences while still ripping *%*! ... i dont want to search high and low for some underground dude who simply sits there and thinks of the best way he can do something without getting noticed cuz hes too hood or real for that lol ...

its like james white claiming to be the best dunker on the planet ... yeah you can do ALL the dunks MJ and Vince and whoever else did, but guess what, youve never done them on the biggest stages ... so therefore, you are not the best dunker in the world ... how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop? the world may never know ...
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What are you even talking about at this point fam ? Dude said better rapper = commercial success. In other words plain and simple, Eminem is the GOAT.

We aren't even talking about underground rappers at all now. Word ? To me better rappers make metaphorical mixtapes ? What are you saying right now ?
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Inever understood why dudes who never heard anything they are talking about keep typing... how are you gonna say you NEVER heard a SINGLE Vinnie Paz song INYOUR LIFE and still wanna make judgments comparing him and another rapper just based off popularity ?
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Being popular, on the radio, on MTV etc simply means you can "find the least common denominator".. make flowery rap songs to appeal to ayo dudes andfemales... payola... etc. as someone said before, and appeal to teenage white kids who are the majority of album buyers. In other words, sales mean nothing.Just look at C3's numbers. Is C3 better than Illmatic ? OB4CL ? The Infamous ? Don't even answer that, because I have no doubt a lot of people herereally feel it is (and probably never even heard illmatic before).
 
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