Asomugha how did you do that?!?!?!

[nyrapisback]

Originally Posted by N3FF 3000

How does someone create TO's when NOBODY THROWS THE $*#$+!% BALL TO HIS SIDE OF THE FIELD! How many balls were thrown to him this season...15-20?

Exactly. How many turnovers do you expect him to have when the ball NEVER comes his way.

 

[downtown43]

Its not that one is better than the other (I prefer man corners so I would take Asomugha) they just have different strengths that are both important. Its like people are trying to grade corners on one objective scale and you cannot do that. Its like comparing apples and oranges.

yes, that's exactly what it is. Nnamdi is better than Asante, he doesn't even get THROWN at!

it's not like comparing apples and oranges. it's like comparing a smaller apple to a bigger apple.

 

[theone2401]

that said, Adrian Peterson is a better football player than Reggie Bush, and Nnamdi Asomugah is a better football player than Asante Samuel.

When did i say Asante was better? What are you talking about? Asante would benefit the Raiders specifically probably more so then Nnamdi because the Raidersoffense is not reliable and their defense doesnt particularly produce many turnovers. Where as if you have a team that doesnt have any good man corners Nnamdiwould be a better fit for them.

yes, that's exactly what it is. Nnamdi is better than Asante, he doesn't even get THROWN at!
No it isnt, no one is debating about who is better we are talking about what weakness they have. If you think Nnamdi doesnt have any weaknessesthen you are being silly. If you value man to man corners and your scheme needs man to man corners then you want Nnamdi if you run a zone scheme and you wantto produce turnovers then you rather have Asante. Nnamdi doesnt fit into every scheme.

 

[koolkatz]

wow that was a really stupid choice

 

[theone2401]

Champ Bailey managed to get 10 picks when he was only thrown to a couple of times per game. So how many times he was thrown to is irrelevant in this disscusion

 

[downtown43]

No it isnt, no one is debating about who is better we are talking about what weakness they have. If you think Nnamdi doesnt have any weaknesses then you are being silly. If you value man to man corners and your scheme needs man to man corners then you want Nnamdi if you run a zone scheme and you want to produce turnovers then you rather have Asante. Nnamdi doesnt fit into every scheme.


but how do you know producing turnovers is Nnamdi's weakness when he doesn't even get thrown at?

and back when he did get thrown at, he had 8 picks?

where is the weakness? i can't see it? i'm not saying he doesn't have any weaknesses in his game... but even if he does, there are NONE that makehim not the best CB in the NFL. i don't even see the point of you arguing this.

 

[n3ff 3000]

Originally Posted by theone2401

Champ Bailey managed to get 10 picks when he was only thrown to a couple of times per game. So how many times he was thrown to is irrelevant in this disscusion

Champ Bailey was also decimated by Jerry Porter that same season I believe (It actually might have been the season before where Champ had 8 INTs), so bringingChamp Bailey up in this discussion is irrelevant as well.

 

[theone2401]

Nnamdi has 10 career picks.

Champ had that in one season getting thrown to as little as Nnamdi....

Champ Bailey was also decimated by Jerry Porter that same season I believe (It actually might have been the season before where Champ had 8 INTs), so bringing Champ Bailey up in this discussion is irrelevant as well.
No it isnt. Because if you knew what we were talking about I am talking about Nnamdi's ability to get picks. Who decimated who has nothing todo with my argument or the topic at hand. We are discussing his playmaking ability and his ability to create turnovers. You are starting to sound irrelevant.

Actually I believe Nnamdi is a better man corner then Champ, but Champ in his prime was a complete corner.

 

[downtown43]

okay, theone:

i still have no idea what you are even arguing, but let's make sure we are on the same page.

do you believe Nnamdi is the best corner in the NFL? yes or no?

 

[theone2401]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

okay, theone:

i still have no idea what you are even arguing, but let's make sure we are on the same page.

do you believe Nnamdi is the best corner in the NFL? yes or no?

He is the best man to man corner.

But not the best total package. But to be honest there isnt much competition I mean Charles Woodson has been playing out of his mind and I dont think anyonehas been playing better then him the last couple years. But Rodgers-Cromartie is going to be very good, Mathis is getting old, Champ is getting old, I reallylike Darrelle Revis though.

Asante and Ronde obviously round out the zone corners but they are getting old as well.

 

[gunna get it]

#%!$@ said champ bailey is irrelevant.

Nnamdi's best yrs aint seein Champs.

Like Wiz said way back, Nnamdi is awesome but its not worthy tryin him when the 2nd cb on the raidrrs is beaten consistantly.

So that voids the "he doesn't get passes his way"

Who would u rather throw at. Michael huff/deangelo hall or Nnamdi?

He plays man to man great. But he aint doin nothin other thanthat. He can only play in one scheme. And how does that hurt? Well considering no one else on theraiders is worthy/good enough to play man, he forces the entire defense to play something they aren't suited to do.

If we doin 7 on 7 pass skels. I'll prefer Nnamdi, if we playin a GAME I need to win, give me Champ or Zant

 

[ericberry14]

Gunna.

question for you, who do you think would do better on the raiders. Champ/Asante/Nnamdi

 

[krispacinla]

I love this signing. He's the most consistent player on the Raider team the last couple of years. I would have been pissed if he left.

 

[n3ff 3000]

Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

#%!$@ said champ bailey is irrelevant.

Nnamdi's best yrs aint seein Champs.

Like Wiz said way back, Nnamdi is awesome but its not worthy tryin him when the 2nd cb on the raidrrs is beaten consistantly.

So that voids the "he doesn't get passes his way"

Who would u rather throw at. Michael huff/deangelo hall or Nnamdi?

He plays man to man great. But he aint doin nothin other thanthat. He can only play in one scheme. And how does that hurt? Well considering no one else on the raiders is worthy/good enough to play man, he forces the entire defense to play something they aren't suited to do.

If we doin 7 on 7 pass skels. I'll prefer Nnamdi, if we playin a GAME I need to win, give me Champ or Zant

I see reading comprehension isn't your forte. I said bringing him up in this convo is irrelevant.

 

[ultralightbeam]

Originally Posted by theone2401

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

okay, theone:

i still have no idea what you are even arguing, but let's make sure we are on the same page.

do you believe Nnamdi is the best corner in the NFL? yes or no?

He is the best man to man corner.

But not the best total package. But to be honest there isnt much competition I mean Charles Woodson has been playing out of his mind and I dont think anyone has been playing better then him the last couple years. But Rodgers-Cromartie is going to be very good, Mathis is getting old, Champ is getting old, I really like Darrelle Revis though.

Asante and Ronde obviously round out the zone corners but they are getting old as well.

QFT. C Woods constantly staying under the radar. Dude does it all. Plays man to man...Can play the zone..and can bait QB's all day.

NA21 is that dude though.

 

[gunna get it]

...

still @ Champ Bailey being irrelevant To this conversation discussing about being complete CBs, esp. The context in which theone brought him into it

And outta everything I wrote that shoulda made total sense to anyone who has any grasp on the concept of football, u chose to comment on me "

"

... Go back. Read my response, then come up with something counter that

 

[dontsteponmyshoes]

NT is really annoyin the !+$! out of me today, maybe its cause I have a hangover from hell

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Y'all _'s ******ed.

Champ Bailey managed to get 10 picks when he was only thrown to a couple of times per game. So how many times he was thrown to is irrelevant in this disscusion
/argument

 

[mister friendly]

Originally Posted by theone2401


Nnamdi has 10 career picks.

Champ had that in one season getting thrown to as little as Nnamdi....

Champ Bailey was also decimated by Jerry Porter that same season I believe (It actually might have been the season before where Champ had 8 INTs), so bringing Champ Bailey up in this discussion is irrelevant as well.

No it isnt. Because if you knew what we were talking about I am talking about Nnamdi's ability to get picks. Who decimated who has nothing to do with my argument or the topic at hand. We are discussing his playmaking ability and his ability to create turnovers. You are starting to sound irrelevant.

Actually I believe Nnamdi is a better man corner then Champ, but Champ in his prime was a complete corner.



No...Champ gets thrown at and he get burned sometimes too

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/84889-is-nnamdi-asomugha-the-best-cornerback-in-the-nflhttp://bleacherreport.com...est-cornerback-in-the-nfl


In 2007, quarterbacks began to realize that it was a mistake to throw the ball to Asomugha's side of the field. Only 35 balls were thrown his way allseason, and he allowed only 10 completions that season. That was an average of only 2.1 passes thrown to his side a game.

By comparison, Champ Bailey was thrown to 63 times last season and 37 of those balls were completed. That means about 59 percent of the balls thrown his wayare completed, compared to Asomugha's 29 percent.

An NFL scout told ProFootballWeekly.com that "Asomugha has been thrown to less times than any other corner I've seen in the last 10years."

So far in 2008, the trend has been that an opposing team's top receiver does not fare well against the Raiders because they have to go up againstAsomugha. Note that many of the catches and yards come from plays when Asomugha was not covering the receiver.

• Roddy White, Atlanta Falcons Season low in yards. Five catches, 54 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Steve Smith, Carolina Panthers Worst game of the season and possibly of his career. Asomugha was his shadow the whole game. One catch, nine yards, zero touchdowns;
• Laveranues New York Jets Four catches, 51 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Lee Evans, Buffalo Bills Four catches, 65 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Vincent Jackson, San Diego Chargers Three catches, 52 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Ted Ginn Jr., Miami Dolphins Four catches, 51 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Derrick Mason, Baltimore Ravens Worst game of the season. One catch, three yards, zero touchdowns.

Recall that last year, Asomugha had 35 passes thrown his way. This season, he is on pace for nowhere near that number. Through Week Six, Asomugha had onlyone ball thrown his way in each of those games, except against the Kansas City Chiefs, who threw a whopping two balls sent in his direction


Asomugha is the best cornerback in the leauge and he can get better everybody can. The only knock you can say on Asomugha is that their run defense is so sorryTeams dont have to throw the ball all the time to beat them.

 

[beatjunkie5]

Originally Posted by Mister Friendly

Originally Posted by theone2401


Nnamdi has 10 career picks.

Champ had that in one season getting thrown to as little as Nnamdi....

Champ Bailey was also decimated by Jerry Porter that same season I believe (It actually might have been the season before where Champ had 8 INTs), so bringing Champ Bailey up in this discussion is irrelevant as well.

No it isnt. Because if you knew what we were talking about I am talking about Nnamdi's ability to get picks. Who decimated who has nothing to do with my argument or the topic at hand. We are discussing his playmaking ability and his ability to create turnovers. You are starting to sound irrelevant.

Actually I believe Nnamdi is a better man corner then Champ, but Champ in his prime was a complete corner.

No...Champ gets thrown at and he get burned sometimes too

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/84889-is-nnamdi-asomugha-the-best-cornerback-in-the-nflhttp://bleacherreport.com/articles/84889-is-nnamdi-asomugha-the-best-cornerback-in-the-nflhttp://bleacherreport.com...est-cornerback-in-the-nfl


In 2007, quarterbacks began to realize that it was a mistake to throw the ball to Asomugha's side of the field. Only 35 balls were thrown his way all season, and he allowed only 10 completions that season. That was an average of only 2.1 passes thrown to his side a game.

By comparison, Champ Bailey was thrown to 63 times last season and 37 of those balls were completed. That means about 59 percent of the balls thrown his way are completed, compared to Asomugha's 29 percent.

An NFL scout told ProFootballWeekly.com that "Asomugha has been thrown to less times than any other corner I've seen in the last 10 years."

So far in 2008, the trend has been that an opposing team's top receiver does not fare well against the Raiders because they have to go up against Asomugha. Note that many of the catches and yards come from plays when Asomugha was not covering the receiver.

• Roddy White, Atlanta Falcons Season low in yards. Five catches, 54 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Steve Smith, Carolina Panthers Worst game of the season and possibly of his career. Asomugha was his shadow the whole game. One catch, nine yards, zero touchdowns;
• Laveranues New York Jets Four catches, 51 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Lee Evans, Buffalo Bills Four catches, 65 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Vincent Jackson, San Diego Chargers Three catches, 52 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Ted Ginn Jr., Miami Dolphins Four catches, 51 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Derrick Mason, Baltimore Ravens Worst game of the season. One catch, three yards, zero touchdowns.

Recall that last year, Asomugha had 35 passes thrown his way. This season, he is on pace for nowhere near that number. Through Week Six, Asomugha had only one ball thrown his way in each of those games, except against the Kansas City Chiefs, who threw a whopping two balls sent in his direction


Asomugha is the best cornerback in the leauge and he can get better everybody can. The only knock you can say on Asomugha is that their run defense is so sorry Teams dont have to throw the ball all the time to beat them.

Call me bias in this argument, but Asomugha does a pretty good job on the running game as well for a "Cover Corner"...he doesn'thave many big hits in his career but dude is a solid tackler when they do run his way.

 

[theone2401]

Originally Posted by Mister Friendly

Originally Posted by theone2401


Nnamdi has 10 career picks.

Champ had that in one season getting thrown to as little as Nnamdi....

Champ Bailey was also decimated by Jerry Porter that same season I believe (It actually might have been the season before where Champ had 8 INTs), so bringing Champ Bailey up in this discussion is irrelevant as well.

No it isnt. Because if you knew what we were talking about I am talking about Nnamdi's ability to get picks. Who decimated who has nothing to do with my argument or the topic at hand. We are discussing his playmaking ability and his ability to create turnovers. You are starting to sound irrelevant.

Actually I believe Nnamdi is a better man corner then Champ, but Champ in his prime was a complete corner.

No...Champ gets thrown at and he get burned sometimes too

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/84889-is-nnamdi-asomugha-the-best-cornerback-in-the-nflhttp://bleacherreport.com/articles/84889-is-nnamdi-asomugha-the-best-cornerback-in-the-nflhttp://bleacherreport.com...est-cornerback-in-the-nfl


In 2007, quarterbacks began to realize that it was a mistake to throw the ball to Asomugha's side of the field. Only 35 balls were thrown his way all season, and he allowed only 10 completions that season. That was an average of only 2.1 passes thrown to his side a game.

By comparison, Champ Bailey was thrown to 63 times last season and 37 of those balls were completed. That means about 59 percent of the balls thrown his way are completed, compared to Asomugha's 29 percent.

An NFL scout told ProFootballWeekly.com that "Asomugha has been thrown to less times than any other corner I've seen in the last 10 years."

So far in 2008, the trend has been that an opposing team's top receiver does not fare well against the Raiders because they have to go up against Asomugha. Note that many of the catches and yards come from plays when Asomugha was not covering the receiver.

• Roddy White, Atlanta Falcons Season low in yards. Five catches, 54 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Steve Smith, Carolina Panthers Worst game of the season and possibly of his career. Asomugha was his shadow the whole game. One catch, nine yards, zero touchdowns;
• Laveranues New York Jets Four catches, 51 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Lee Evans, Buffalo Bills Four catches, 65 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Vincent Jackson, San Diego Chargers Three catches, 52 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Ted Ginn Jr., Miami Dolphins Four catches, 51 yards, zero touchdowns;
• Derrick Mason, Baltimore Ravens Worst game of the season. One catch, three yards, zero touchdowns.

Recall that last year, Asomugha had 35 passes thrown his way. This season, he is on pace for nowhere near that number. Through Week Six, Asomugha had only one ball thrown his way in each of those games, except against the Kansas City Chiefs, who threw a whopping two balls sent in his direction


Asomugha is the best cornerback in the leauge and he can get better everybody can. The only knock you can say on Asomugha is that their run defense is so sorry Teams dont have to throw the ball all the time to beat them.


You just proved my point.

Champ was thrown to less then 2 times more then Nnamdi and had 10 times as many picks

Again...Why would anyone throw at Nnamdi when you can have easy completions anywhere else on the field because the Raiders are terrible? He is a great man toman corner but that is just one type of corner.

 

[ag 47]

Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

+%%%@ said champ bailey is irrelevant.

Nnamdi's best yrs aint seein Champs.

Like Wiz said way back, Nnamdi is awesome but its not worthy tryin him when the 2nd cb on the raidrrs is beaten consistantly.

So that voids the "he doesn't get passes his way"

Who would u rather throw at. Michael huff/deangelo hall or Nnamdi?

He plays man to man great. But he aint doin nothin other thanthat. He can only play in one scheme. And how does that hurt? Well considering no one else on the raiders is worthy/good enough to play man, he forces the entire defense to play something they aren't suited to do.

If we doin 7 on 7 pass skels. I'll prefer Nnamdi, if we playin a GAME I need to win, give me Champ or Zant

Well, after D. Hall was cut, there was no weakness in the secondary. Chris Johnson stepped in as the starter and played pretty damn good.

Huff doesn't play anything, but special teams anymore. So to say no one else on the Raiders can play man coverage just isn't true. But it took

half the season to separate the players from the "rest".

My biggest problem with the "ability to create turnovers" argument is that the team's surrounding talent CANNOT be ignored.

A zone playing cornerback with safety help on a consisent Top 5 schematic blitz based defense is going to have more opportunities to take risks and jump routes

than a man coverage cornerback with no safety help on an average at best vanilla style defense.

Asante Samuels is a tremendous player on the Eagles. Asante Samuels playing on the Raiders defense...I'm not sure he stays tremendous.

You put Asomugha is a similar situation as Samuels and you will see the turnovers and INT's that you don't see now.

 

[dontsteponmyshoes]

give it up already %*!*. Dude is a good corner nobody has to be "right" any team in the league would love to have him with or without his"weakness" you dudes are arguing just for arguins sake now.

 

[theone2401]

You put Asomugha is a similar situation as Samuels and you will see the turnovers and INT's that you don't see now.

You may be right we dont know and if you are right this whole discussion would be moot. But a bunch of us just dont believe he would magically turn into a INTmachine. He has 10 career picks and most of them in 1 season that just isnt very convincing. How is what we are saying not at least reasonable based off of hiscareer?

 

[gunna get it]

Originally Posted by DontStepOnMyShoes

give it up already %*!*. Dude is a good corner nobody has to be "right" any team in the league would love to have him with or without his "weakness" you dudes are arguing just for arguins sake now.

Bruh, its a message board. calm down. No one is forcing u to keep reading the thread.

You put Asomugha is a similar situation as Samuels and you will see the turnovers and INT's that you don't see now.
No way. Nnamdi can NOT play off-man or zone. he is a physical "hands on WR" Press Cornerback.