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IS BROOKLYN DYING?
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by finessesupreme86,
- Start date
|A-Man|
formerly atgd7154xbbxmz
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Polack is a derogatory term? News to me. *Adds to list*
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Reminds me of this:
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Leave em alone. I think them dumb Polacks have been ridiculed enough!
-Andy Kaufman
-Andy Kaufman
Pathos
formerly retrosan
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the hell is a Polack?
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What exactly is offensive about saying "your culture" is not leaving a neighborhood soon?
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^Pollack? Seriously? You don't realize that can be deemed offensive?
You must be kidding me. Go make something of yourself so you can afford the apartment you want. Do you really want to stay in a 1-room shack next to the projects all your life? Pick up a book, get a decent job, put in work, be about the professional life.
You must be kidding me. Go make something of yourself so you can afford the apartment you want. Do you really want to stay in a 1-room shack next to the projects all your life? Pick up a book, get a decent job, put in work, be about the professional life.
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******ed.
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did not read thread. brooklyn>
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come on home to atl. we have dirt cheap homes, great weather and pretty women.
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the only catch.. it's the south.
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True, I am 20 and always herd threw out my life "*insert culture hear* use to live over here" but to see certain environment change before my eyes is crazy.
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I'm inserting an outsider/"hipster" perspective. I graduated college in California in May and moved to Brooklyn three weeks ago. Why? I'm an artist (as cliche as that is around here), received an opportunity to do a residency at a studio in Gowanus/Park Slope, have friends out here, and the idea of living in New York has been a romanticized goal of mine since I was in middle school. I'm not a trust fund baby. I received a "small" scholarship before I graduated and if I can't find steady work to keep me going, I'll probably have to leave. Regardless, I've only been here a short time but I love Brooklyn. I live in Red Hook in a converted factory loft space across the street from project housing. It's quiet out here and I've never felt unsafe. The Red Hook I'm getting to know is a small, tight knit community of artists and creative types that enjoy living away from the noise and crowd of Manhattan while being just close enough to the city and having space for their various practices (industrial design, art studio, woodworking, etc.) I don't know anything about Red Hook's history although I hear it used to be a lot worse.
Like it or not, New York City is the art capital of the world and attracts creative types from all kinds of industries. It's a point of pride for most New Yorkers I've met but it's that same attraction that's going to unfortunately price people out of neighborhoods as more people want to come in. I don't really think there is anything that can happen since property owners aren't going to complain about getting more money and the city isn't going to be mad that crime rates go down.
Just my two cents.
edit: I've only been up to Williamsburg twice (to go see bands) but I don't really get the knock on it. Yeah, it's full of young white people but I don't really see the problem. There are tons of great bars, restaurants, and music venues in the area. I do wish there were more divey places because these $7-8 beers are killing me
Like it or not, New York City is the art capital of the world and attracts creative types from all kinds of industries. It's a point of pride for most New Yorkers I've met but it's that same attraction that's going to unfortunately price people out of neighborhoods as more people want to come in. I don't really think there is anything that can happen since property owners aren't going to complain about getting more money and the city isn't going to be mad that crime rates go down.
Just my two cents.
edit: I've only been up to Williamsburg twice (to go see bands) but I don't really get the knock on it. Yeah, it's full of young white people but I don't really see the problem. There are tons of great bars, restaurants, and music venues in the area. I do wish there were more divey places because these $7-8 beers are killing me
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Hendrix Watermelon wrote:
I was appalled at all the amount of non hispanics/blacks in the area walking carelessly late at night.
see, on one hand some people provide reasonable explanations for why they're against gentrification, but mostly it's this racist @#$%. "Too many white boys here now" (something I've heard plenty of times in a majority Latino/Asian city)
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Originally Posted by Boys Noize
I'm inserting an outsider/"hipster" perspective. I graduated college in California in May and moved to Brooklyn three weeks ago. Why? I'm an artist (as cliche as that is around here), received an opportunity to do a residency at a studio in Gowanus/Park Slope, have friends out here, and the idea of living in New York has been a romanticized goal of mine since I was in middle school. I'm not a trust fund baby. I received a "small" scholarship before I graduated and if I can't find steady work to keep me going, I'll probably have to leave. Regardless, I've only been here a short time but I love Brooklyn. I live in Red Hook in a converted factory loft space across the street from project housing. It's quiet out here and I've never felt unsafe. The Red Hook I'm getting to know is a small, tight knit community of artists and creative types that enjoy living away from the noise and crowd of Manhattan while being just close enough to the city and having space for their various practices (industrial design, art studio, woodworking, etc.) I don't know anything about Red Hook's history although I hear it used to be a lot worse.
Like it or not, New York City is the art capital of the world and attracts creative types from all kinds of industries. It's a point of pride for most New Yorkers I've met but it's that same attraction that's going to unfortunately price people out of neighborhoods as more people want to come in. I don't really think there is anything that can happen since property owners aren't going to complain about getting more money and the city isn't going to be mad that crime rates go down.
Just my two cents.
edit: I've only been up to Williamsburg twice (to go see bands) but I don't really get the knock on it. Yeah, it's full of young white people but I don't really see the problem. There are tons of great bars, restaurants, and music venues in the area. I do wish there were more divey places because these $7-8 beers are killing me
The Only way for it to change is for you and your fellow hipsters to move to Portland ,San Fran and austin.The only reason why you feel safe is because the cops are gonna protect you at all cost because you bring in dollars and a fake Industry that the minute you find Is boring you will live.Ive seen your kind come and go and believe me you don't truly care .
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[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]The soul has been documented.[/font]
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An intimate portrait of the black arts movement that exploded in Fort Greene from the mid 1980s through the 90s as told by writer, historian and Brooklyn resident Nelson George.
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An intimate portrait of the black arts movement that exploded in Fort Greene from the mid 1980s through the 90s as told by writer, historian and Brooklyn resident Nelson George.
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Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs
Originally Posted by Boys Noize
I'm inserting an outsider/"hipster" perspective. I graduated college in California in May and moved to Brooklyn three weeks ago. Why? I'm an artist (as cliche as that is around here), received an opportunity to do a residency at a studio in Gowanus/Park Slope, have friends out here, and the idea of living in New York has been a romanticized goal of mine since I was in middle school. I'm not a trust fund baby. I received a "small" scholarship before I graduated and if I can't find steady work to keep me going, I'll probably have to leave. Regardless, I've only been here a short time but I love Brooklyn. I live in Red Hook in a converted factory loft space across the street from project housing. It's quiet out here and I've never felt unsafe. The Red Hook I'm getting to know is a small, tight knit community of artists and creative types that enjoy living away from the noise and crowd of Manhattan while being just close enough to the city and having space for their various practices (industrial design, art studio, woodworking, etc.) I don't know anything about Red Hook's history although I hear it used to be a lot worse.
Like it or not, New York City is the art capital of the world and attracts creative types from all kinds of industries. It's a point of pride for most New Yorkers I've met but it's that same attraction that's going to unfortunately price people out of neighborhoods as more people want to come in. I don't really think there is anything that can happen since property owners aren't going to complain about getting more money and the city isn't going to be mad that crime rates go down.
Just my two cents.
edit: I've only been up to Williamsburg twice (to go see bands) but I don't really get the knock on it. Yeah, it's full of young white people but I don't really see the problem. There are tons of great bars, restaurants, and music venues in the area. I do wish there were more divey places because these $7-8 beers are killing me
The Only way for it to change is for you and your fellow hipsters to move to Portland ,San Fran and austin.The only reason why you feel safe is because the cops are gonna protect you at all cost because you bring in dollars and a fake Industry that the minute you find Is boring you will live.Ive seen your kind come and go and believe me you don't truly care .
Again, New York is the biggest creative hub in the world. I don't see that changing any time soon. As long as that is the case, creative types will flock to the city. That's just reality. You call it a fake industry (I'm not even in the industry
As for the bolded, I don't see how that's a bad thing at all.
Serious question though, SHOULD people feel unsafe living where they do? I'm getting this vibe from a bunch of you that the crime is something you miss (or rather, are okay with but are bitter about because the cops showed up when all the blacks/hispanics got pushed out.)
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- Dec 10, 2011
What a timely subject. Over the last few days I've noticed the profound changes taking place in Brooklyn. But let's not fool ourselves as if gentrification in Brooklyn is new. Although not recognized as a full blown phenomenon until the late 1970s and early '80s, central city reclamation, or gentrification, of so-called slum/blighted neighborhoods began in the 1960s. In Brooklyn, places such as Boerum Hill, Cobble Hill, Brooklyn Heights, and Carroll Gardens experienced the first wave of gentrification with the influx of professionals (lawyers, doctors, professors) and artists. So what we see today in Bushwick or near Franklin Avenue is part of a long term trajectory of inflated land values in Manhattan. But there is nothing inevitable about gentrification. To suggest otherwise is ahistorical and ignores the conscious decisions of this modern gentry, institutional investors, and city governments who promote gentrification as a policy tool to replenish a city's tax base.
Many of you have focused too much on culture, highlighting the cultural impulses of hipsters as the culprits of displacing an assumed "organic" and "authentic" sense of community. But gentrification is not simply about culture. Its a tricky subject precisely because it defies the neat trajectory of white resident displacing black resident. In the neighborhood between St. Marks and Vanderbilt, for example, it is not uncommon to see African Americans (whether they're hipsters is besides the point) who themselves are part of the new gentry. It is also tricky because in many ways gentrified areas represent the essence of tolerance. We see high rates of interracial and same-sex couples, indicating a degree of liberal sensibilities.
The biggest reason why gentrification is such a hot button issue is because its class characteristics are so salient. Americans have perpetuated the ridiculous notion that the United States is not a class-ridden society. Gentrification places class upfront and center and forces us to confront the ways in which class stratification fuels the emplacement of childless couples or young families with high disposable incomes and the displacement of those without the necessary financial resources to compensate for the rising price of rent and food prices.
At the end of the day, constructing urban space produces winners and losers. Those who are Brownstoners or Homesteaders(Baltimore) are the victors and further anchor their attempt to join the ruling class while those who are dislocated to depressed areas or become homeless are the losers. For some of you to treat this as inevitable, to ask who cares, or to gloss over this crucial fact not only lack a sense of sensitivity. You also fail to address the question, what happens to those who are dislocated and in what ways does their dislocation exacerbate problems elsewhere?
Many of you have focused too much on culture, highlighting the cultural impulses of hipsters as the culprits of displacing an assumed "organic" and "authentic" sense of community. But gentrification is not simply about culture. Its a tricky subject precisely because it defies the neat trajectory of white resident displacing black resident. In the neighborhood between St. Marks and Vanderbilt, for example, it is not uncommon to see African Americans (whether they're hipsters is besides the point) who themselves are part of the new gentry. It is also tricky because in many ways gentrified areas represent the essence of tolerance. We see high rates of interracial and same-sex couples, indicating a degree of liberal sensibilities.
The biggest reason why gentrification is such a hot button issue is because its class characteristics are so salient. Americans have perpetuated the ridiculous notion that the United States is not a class-ridden society. Gentrification places class upfront and center and forces us to confront the ways in which class stratification fuels the emplacement of childless couples or young families with high disposable incomes and the displacement of those without the necessary financial resources to compensate for the rising price of rent and food prices.
At the end of the day, constructing urban space produces winners and losers. Those who are Brownstoners or Homesteaders(Baltimore) are the victors and further anchor their attempt to join the ruling class while those who are dislocated to depressed areas or become homeless are the losers. For some of you to treat this as inevitable, to ask who cares, or to gloss over this crucial fact not only lack a sense of sensitivity. You also fail to address the question, what happens to those who are dislocated and in what ways does their dislocation exacerbate problems elsewhere?
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I grew up in Flushing (Kew Garden Hills). The Asians have been in Flushing forever, but Kew Garden Hills was always more Jewish and Black (hispanic too). When I moved away, the Koreans had started taking over my apartment building, and now when I go back to visit, the asians seemed to have taken over the whole neighborhood except the projects. It's crazy, kinda sad. That's not the Flushing I grew up knowing. Not really gentrification but kinda similar.
Oh, and I can vouch for the gentrification of Crown Heights. My pops lived there for like 10 years right by the BK museum. The front of his apartment building, you see loads middle class whites walking around Eastern Parkway (where they have the labor day parade).
Oh, and I can vouch for the gentrification of Crown Heights. My pops lived there for like 10 years right by the BK museum. The front of his apartment building, you see loads middle class whites walking around Eastern Parkway (where they have the labor day parade).
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Boyznoyz, I think the issue is not whether people should feel unsafe in their communities. Rather, its the fact that when we consider the beefed-up police presence in an area undergoing gentrification (take Franklin Ave and St Johns Pl for example) in relation to the racist stop-and-frisk policies of the NYPD, the real question is whether or not the presence of this modern gentry further provokes stop-and-frisk policies of those "undesirable" elements.Originally Posted by Boys Noize
Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs
Originally Posted by Boys Noize
I'm inserting an outsider/"hipster" perspective. I graduated college in California in May and moved to Brooklyn three weeks ago. Why? I'm an artist (as cliche as that is around here), received an opportunity to do a residency at a studio in Gowanus/Park Slope, have friends out here, and the idea of living in New York has been a romanticized goal of mine since I was in middle school. I'm not a trust fund baby. I received a "small" scholarship before I graduated and if I can't find steady work to keep me going, I'll probably have to leave. Regardless, I've only been here a short time but I love Brooklyn. I live in Red Hook in a converted factory loft space across the street from project housing. It's quiet out here and I've never felt unsafe. The Red Hook I'm getting to know is a small, tight knit community of artists and creative types that enjoy living away from the noise and crowd of Manhattan while being just close enough to the city and having space for their various practices (industrial design, art studio, woodworking, etc.) I don't know anything about Red Hook's history although I hear it used to be a lot worse.
Like it or not, New York City is the art capital of the world and attracts creative types from all kinds of industries. It's a point of pride for most New Yorkers I've met but it's that same attraction that's going to unfortunately price people out of neighborhoods as more people want to come in. I don't really think there is anything that can happen since property owners aren't going to complain about getting more money and the city isn't going to be mad that crime rates go down.
Just my two cents.
edit: I've only been up to Williamsburg twice (to go see bands) but I don't really get the knock on it. Yeah, it's full of young white people but I don't really see the problem. There are tons of great bars, restaurants, and music venues in the area. I do wish there were more divey places because these $7-8 beers are killing me
The Only way for it to change is for you and your fellow hipsters to move to Portland ,San Fran and austin.The only reason why you feel safe is because the cops are gonna protect you at all cost because you bring in dollars and a fake Industry that the minute you find Is boring you will live.Ive seen your kind come and go and believe me you don't truly care .
Again, New York is the biggest creative hub in the world. I don't see that changing any time soon. As long as that is the case, creative types will flock to the city. That's just reality. You call it a fake industry (I'm not even in the industry) but you're insane if you don't think the fashion/tech/tv/design industries are here to stay.
As for the bolded, I don't see how that's a bad thing at all.
Serious question though, SHOULD people feel unsafe living where they do? I'm getting this vibe from a bunch of you that the crime is something you miss (or rather, are okay with but are bitter about because the cops showed up when all the blacks/hispanics got pushed out.)
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changing =/= dying
the italians and irish said the same thing when the _____ started moving in.
And all of bk used to be all white back in the day...and native american before that.
the italians and irish said the same thing when the _____ started moving in.
And all of bk used to be all white back in the day...and native american before that.
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I can't speak on the stop-and-frisk policies (other than to say I think they're ridiculous) and I won't pretend like I'll know what it feels like to be black in New York. I'm not even going to try to say I can relate because I can't. I'm Asian (probably the only Asian person in Red Hook as far as I can tell...Originally Posted by ObeahMyal
Boyznoyz, I think the issue is not whether people should feel unsafe in their communities. Rather, its the fact that when we consider the beefed-up police presence in an area undergoing gentrification (take Franklin Ave and St Johns Pl for example) in relation to the racist stop-and-frisk policies of the NYPD, the real question is whether or not the presence of this modern gentry further provokes stop-and-frisk policies of those "undesirable" elements.Originally Posted by Boys Noize
Again, New York is the biggest creative hub in the world. I don't see that changing any time soon. As long as that is the case, creative types will flock to the city. That's just reality. You call it a fake industry (I'm not even in the industry) but you're insane if you don't think the fashion/tech/tv/design industries are here to stay.
As for the bolded, I don't see how that's a bad thing at all.
Serious question though, SHOULD people feel unsafe living where they do? I'm getting this vibe from a bunch of you that the crime is something you miss (or rather, are okay with but are bitter about because the cops showed up when all the blacks/hispanics got pushed out.)
What do you think should happen if you're "against gentrification"?
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Im not bitter, but I think its uffed up that the cops come through now when there aint a damn thing to be policed except for a few guys who get too drunk and cause a commotion in a bar or whatever. My block is literally right around the corner from a police station but we wasn't gettin that protection prior. They only came thru to pat some pockets but they were never a force that made us feel safe.
Sad reality of it all.
I hate to make assumptions, but let's be real here. Considering the history of policy brutality against black and latino men in NY, you probably didn't want police protection, either. Working-class people of color never wanted police protection. We wanted proper police conduct.
Boyznoyz, I never said I was "against gentrification," although I can see why you might walk away with that impression. I recognize that gentrification is an incredibly complex process and is not reducible to pro vs. con, good guys versus bad guys. Nevertheless, I am particularly concerned with those who are displaced, working class whites, blacks and the elderly. This might be a pipe dream but I would like local governments to acquire foreclosed homes and use them to provide temporary housing quarters for the displaced.
6 Rings G.O.A.T.
Supporter
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No cliff notes..
