Is Kevin Durant a once-in-a-generation type of talent?

[datznasty]

Originally Posted by EnEyeKayEe

This thread is absolutely hilarious.

T-Mac's passing ability being compared to LeBron's passing ability?!

T-Mac being a better passer than THIS Grant Hill

at ANY point in his lifetime?!

You forgot LeBron James and Kevin Durant having comparable physiques

 

[macjefficent]

I jus wanna know how it'd be if the Blazers chose KD..imagine KD + B Roy, wow.

 

[nychiphophippo]

+ Andre Miller throwing down his viscious dunks

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by EnEyeKayEe

This thread is absolutely hilarious.

T-Mac's passing ability being compared to LeBron's passing ability?!

T-Mac being a better passer than THIS Grant Hill

at ANY point in his lifetime?!

There peak assist rate is the same, Tmac's career assist rate is higher so....? So what makes Grants passing way better even though they assisted the same amount of shots.  

 

[certifiedsw]

I @#$#@#$ want him and the rest of the squad back in Seattle

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Just a quick question...for those comparing T-Mac's court vision to Lebron's, was there a time when T-Mac's passing was mentioned...just mentioned, amongst the likes of Magic Johnson? I'll wait.

T-Mac was a GREAT talent...one of the best all-around players that the NBA has seen when healthy. But he's not even on par (court-vision wise) with Grant Hill. The way some of yall gas up McGrady, you'd think he'd be the next logo on a NBA jersey.

Why does T-Mac's court vision have to be compared to Magic to be on the same plane as LeBron? Are we comparing T-Mac's court vision to LeBron or Magic here? (Are you suggesting that LeBron was compared to Magic so T-Mac has to be compared to Magic too?) No one here is going to say T-Mac is as good as LeBron overall, but T-Mac's passing (court vision to an extent) is underrated and overlooked. Probably the only thing besides rebounding and blocks that T-Mac had over Kobe when he was younger too.

Grant Hill? Grant Hill might be old, but he's not the best passer or the player with the best court vision on his team. T-Mac might be old and injured, but even on one leg he has always been the "Nash" player on his team.

Besides LeBron, who else can and will pass and get those dimes that T-Mac gets for his size?

Lebron's court vision/passing HAS been compared to Magic Johnson's.  He does things at 6'8" that are comparable to what Magic did.  Is he as good of a passer as Magic, IMO, no.  However, to be mentioned in the same breath as Magic for how he sees the floor, is impressive. 

And bro...I'm not talking about the 2010 version of Grant Hill.

Yeah, we know LeBron has been compared to Magic. I already stated that T-Mac is not on LeBron's level overall. Probably in passing and court vision too I guess. No hate on LBJ man. But it doesn't matter that T-Mac has never been compared to Magic in court vision and passing. He is great for his size too.

No doubt I don't think you were referring to the 2010 Grant Hill... And this is no hate on Hill, but T-Mac continues to have great court vision and passing post knee surgery, while Hill somehow has lost it (or maybe he doesn't need to anymore with Nash around) after his injuries. Looking at Jason Kidd, you don't need athleticism to have great court vision and passing. This is why I think T-Mac is underrated at this facet of his game. 

With all this talk about Grant Hill, lets bring in Penny Hardaway as well and compare who was the best in court vision between Hill, Hardaway and T-Mac? Penny post surgery on the Knicks was not fun to watch though.

 

[im not you]

Dude...Penny was a legit one. A LEGIT one. He EASILY has a better court vision than Hill & T-Mac.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Just a quick question...for those comparing T-Mac's court vision to Lebron's, was there a time when T-Mac's passing was mentioned...just mentioned, amongst the likes of Magic Johnson? I'll wait.



T-Mac was a GREAT talent...one of the best all-around players that the NBA has seen when healthy. But he's not even on par (court-vision wise) with Grant Hill. The way some of yall gas up McGrady, you'd think he'd be the next logo on a NBA jersey.

Why does T-Mac's court vision have to be compared to Magic to be on the same plane as LeBron? Are we comparing T-Mac's court vision to LeBron or Magic here? (Are you suggesting that LeBron was compared to Magic so T-Mac has to be compared to Magic too?) No one here is going to say T-Mac is as good as LeBron overall, but T-Mac's passing (court vision to an extent) is underrated and overlooked. Probably the only thing besides rebounding and blocks that T-Mac had over Kobe when he was younger too.

Grant Hill? Grant Hill might be old, but he's not the best passer or the player with the best court vision on his team. T-Mac might be old and injured, but even on one leg he has always been the "Nash" player on his team.

Besides LeBron, who else can and will pass and get those dimes that T-Mac gets for his size?

Lebron's court vision/passing HAS been compared to Magic Johnson's.  He does things at 6'8" that are comparable to what Magic did. Is he as good of a passer as Magic, IMO, no. However, to be mentioned in the same breath as Magic for how he sees the floor, is impressive.

And bro...I'm not talking about the 2010 version of Grant Hill.

Yeah, we know LeBron has been compared to Magic. I already stated that T-Mac is not on LeBron's level overall. Probably in passing and court vision too I guess. No hate on LBJ man. But it doesn't matter that T-Mac has never been compared to Magic in court vision and passing. He is great for his size too.

No doubt I don't think you were referring to the 2010 Grant Hill... And this is no hate on Hill, but T-Mac continues to have great court vision and passing post knee surgery, while Hill somehow has lost it (or maybe he doesn't need to anymore with Nash around) after his injuries. Looking at Jason Kidd, you don't need athleticism to have great court vision and passing. This is why I think T-Mac is underrated at this facet of his game.

With all this talk about Grant Hill, lets bring in Penny Hardaway as well and compare who was the best in court vision between Hill, Hardaway and T-Mac? Penny post surgery on the Knicks was not fun to watch though.

Tracy McGrady was most definitely never the passer that this Grant Hill was:

And this is no hate on Hill, but T-Mac continues to have great court vision and passing post knee surgery, while Hill somehow has lost it (or maybe he doesn't need to anymore with Nash around)


Are you comparing a 37 year-old Grant Hill to a 30 year-old Tracy McGrady? The guy is 30 years old, an age that is only slightly higher than the age where most superstars hit their very peak. Grant's role with the Suns is light years away from his role in his prime with the Pistons.

As for Penny Hardaway, at his peak, he had the best court vision of any player ever above 6'4, other than Magic Johnson. That includes Bird, Pippen and LeBron as well.

 

[tylerdub]

I love Grant Hill highlights. He would have been one of the greats without the injuries.

 

[kidoopz]

Durant is a special player no doubt. I'm not getting carried away b/c I do remember T-mac in his first year with the Magics; he was also 21 years of age at the time. Only if he would of won that Detroit series..
And Isn't T-mac 6'8, 6'9 #*@...
Only time will tell to see if Durant is a once-in-a-generation type player.
Oh and for the record. Jason Kidd has been the best point guard ever since Stockton left. Man, look at his Assists to Turnover ratio at 36 Years of Age. Ridiculous..

 

[im not you]

There's so many different arguments going on right now and I think most people have lost focus on what the actual topic was...

He asked if Kevin Durant is a once in a generation type of talent. Time doesn't tell that...you things like that right away.

He's asking if Kevin Durant's TALENT is rare. Whether he gets out of the first round of the playoffs, and all that other stuff shouldn't factor in.

For example...Lebron at 6'8 260...being so fast and athletic and that skilled...is a once in a generation type of talent. They don't come around often.

Therefore...I'm gathering DoubleJ's asking if at 6'10 (possibly taller)...with that length and shooting ability on a frame that can cause so much damage and the ability to score in a efficient matter...is that a once in a generation thing...or do you believe that a few other 6'10 players with all of that ability will come around often.

Correct me if I'm wrong DoubleJ's

 

[franchise3]

Like somebody said, KD is like a more athletic Dirk. So, IMO, he's not a once in a lifetime talent.

 

[big sippin spendin cheese]

Originally Posted by dmncn lew

^^How is Jason Kidd a once-in-a-generation player? And to answer the OP's question - No, Durant is not a once in a generation player either.

yea j-kidd was unique because he could lead a team like magic,nash or stockton


but he could defend the other teams best perimiter scorer

and none of the other all time great PG's could

he was a great defender

and he could rebound like crazy




so he's a once in a generation player fa sho

  

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by Im Not You

There's so many different arguments going on right now and I think most people have lost focus on what the actual topic was...

He asked if Kevin Durant is a once in a generation type of talent. Time doesn't tell that...you things like that right away.

He's asking if Kevin Durant's TALENT is rare. Whether he gets out of the first round of the playoffs, and all that other stuff shouldn't factor in.

For example...Lebron at 6'8 260...being so fast and athletic and that skilled...is a once in a generation type of talent. They don't come around often.

Therefore...I'm gathering DoubleJ's asking if at 6'10 (possibly taller)...with that length and shooting ability on a frame that can cause so much damage and the ability to score in a efficient matter...is that a once in a generation thing...or do you believe that a few other 6'10 players with all of that ability will come around often.

Correct me if I'm wrong DoubleJ's

You're spot on. 

I feel as though Durant is a rarity.  We ARE witnessing greatness and a remarkably (sp?) special talent in Kevin Durant.  I don't get the comparisons to Tracy McGrady, because at 21, Kevin Durant is a much better player than T-Mac was at the same stage in their careers.  It's a moot point to even suggest comparing the two. 

Anyways, like you were saying, how many other 6'10" or taller guys have you seen that can dominate from anywhere on the floor?  Whether it's posting up, shooting the mid-range, or taking the 3 ball?  I mean it's night and day when you look at what KD is doing in comparison to a guy like Rashard Lewis (around the same height, and similar skills). 

Once-in-a-generation is Magic playing the 1 at 6'9" and dominating....once-in-a-generation is Mike transcending the game of hoops...once-in-a-generation is a small Allen Iverson creating his legacy..... once-in-a-generation is the lab-created Lebron James doing things at 270+ pounds that seem unimaginable.  It goes on and on....you can EASILY put KD in that same category IMO.  

There is nobody that I can think of off-hand that you can even compare Kevin Durant to because he's one of the most unique talents that I've ever seen on the basketball court. 

With all this talk about Grant Hill, lets bring in Penny Hardaway as well and compare who was the best in court vision between Hill, Hardaway and T-Mac? 


[Keyshawn Johnson] C'mon man [/Keyshawn Johnson]....there's something SERIOUSLY wrong with what you just said.....it's been POINTed out, but let's see if you can connect the dots. 
  

 

[bhzmafia14]

Perry Jones

Naw, jk before somebody wet their pants.

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Just a quick question...for those comparing T-Mac's court vision to Lebron's, was there a time when T-Mac's passing was mentioned...just mentioned, amongst the likes of Magic Johnson? I'll wait.



T-Mac was a GREAT talent...one of the best all-around players that the NBA has seen when healthy. But he's not even on par (court-vision wise) with Grant Hill. The way some of yall gas up McGrady, you'd think he'd be the next logo on a NBA jersey.

Why does T-Mac's court vision have to be compared to Magic to be on the same plane as LeBron? Are we comparing T-Mac's court vision to LeBron or Magic here? (Are you suggesting that LeBron was compared to Magic so T-Mac has to be compared to Magic too?) No one here is going to say T-Mac is as good as LeBron overall, but T-Mac's passing (court vision to an extent) is underrated and overlooked. Probably the only thing besides rebounding and blocks that T-Mac had over Kobe when he was younger too.

Grant Hill? Grant Hill might be old, but he's not the best passer or the player with the best court vision on his team. T-Mac might be old and injured, but even on one leg he has always been the "Nash" player on his team.

Besides LeBron, who else can and will pass and get those dimes that T-Mac gets for his size?

Lebron's court vision/passing HAS been compared to Magic Johnson's.� He does things at 6'8" that are comparable to what Magic did.� Is he as good of a passer as Magic, IMO, no.� However, to be mentioned in the same breath as Magic for how he sees the floor, is impressive.�

And bro...I'm not talking about the 2010 version of Grant Hill.

Yeah, we know LeBron has been compared to Magic. I already stated that T-Mac is not on LeBron's level overall. Probably in passing and court vision too I guess. No hate on LBJ man. But it doesn't matter that T-Mac has never been compared to Magic in court vision and passing. He is great for his size too.

No doubt I don't think you were referring to the 2010 Grant Hill... And this is no hate on Hill, but T-Mac continues to have great court vision and passing post knee surgery, while Hill somehow has lost it (or maybe he doesn't need to anymore with Nash around) after his injuries. Looking at Jason Kidd, you don't need athleticism to have great court vision and passing. This is why I think T-Mac is underrated at this facet of his game.�

With all this talk about Grant Hill, lets bring in Penny Hardaway as well and compare who was the best in court vision between Hill, Hardaway and T-Mac? Penny post surgery on the Knicks was not fun to watch though.

Tracy McGrady was most definitely never the passer that this Grant Hill was:

http://www.youtube.com/v/C8NX2wKEYow&hl=en_US&fs=1&http://www.youtube.com/v/C8NX2wKEYow&hl=en_US&fs=1&

And this is no hate on Hill, but T-Mac continues to have great court vision and passing post knee surgery, while Hill somehow has lost it (or maybe he doesn't need to anymore with Nash around)

Are you comparing a 37 year-old Grant Hill to a 30 year-old Tracy McGrady? The guy is 30 years old, an age that is only slightly higher than the age where most superstars hit their very peak. Grant's role with the Suns is light years away from his role in his prime with the Pistons.

As for Penny Hardaway, at his peak, he had the best court vision of any player ever above 6'4, other than Magic Johnson. That includes Bird, Pippen and LeBron as well.
First of all, cool vid. Grant Hill was that dude.

But yes, I am comparing a 37 year old Grant Hill to a 30 year old T-Mac. Why? Because court vision doesn't disappear with age. See Jason Kidd for reference. I understand that Hill's role on the Suns is not the same role he had on the Pistons, but why should his court vision be taken away because of that? And T-Mac might be 30, but everyone should know he's oft-injured and went through multiple knee injuries recently. He is not at his "prime" like most players are at around 28-30 because of his injuries. What is interesting is that Hill also lost his "prime" years due to injuries after he signed with the Magic. Should I compare an injured Hill at 30 with the current T-Mac at 30 then?

Osh Kosh Bosh also stated that T-Mac has the same peak assists rate as Hill and even higher career one. Are we being a little subjective here in saying that Hill had better court vision and was a better passer at his "prime" when the key statistic of Assists states otherwise?

I am not here to make T-Mac better than Grant Hill or Penny, but just stating that T-Mac's court vision and passing was and is still underrated for his size. I also brought up Penny for the obvious reason of people liking to compare T-Mac to him just like how people like to bring up T-Mac when comparing Durant.

Maybe I don't understand the concept of court vision as for some reason, an old PG like Jason Kidd can continue to have great court vision and passing with no athleticism, but an equally old SG or SF in the Knicks Penny and the current Hill cannot continue to do what they did before their injuries. T-Mac post his knee surgeries is still effective in his passing (started at PG for the Knicks), but hey maybe I am overrating his passing because he is at his "prime" right now at 30. 

But yeah original question that dude refuses to answer: Besides LeBron, who else can and will pass and get those dimes that T-Mac gets for his size?

 

[ph3n0m3n0n]

KD doesn't stand out as once in a generation to me at this point.

Maybe because Lebron and Melo are in the league right now as well and they're all in the 6-8 to 6-10 range.

What exactly makes KD a once in a generation player anyway? I hope it's not just the scoring he does.

 

[doublejs07]

But yeah original question that dude refuses to answer: Besides LeBron, who else can and will pass and get those dimes that T-Mac gets for his size?


Boris Diaw, Lamar Odom, Mike Miller, Hedo Turkoglu, Kirilenko...etc etc....

and if you want to go further back just look at Jalen Rose or a guy like Anthony Mason. 

Maybe because Lebron and Melo are in the league right now as well and they're all in the 6-8 to 6-10 range.


Are you implying that Melo is a once-in-a-generation type of talent?  Because we've seen 6'8" SF's who can score at ease JUST like him over the years.  There have been guys with similar-to-better skill sets than him at the same position. 

 

[duba169]

melo isn't a once in a generation player either.

if durant gets that lock down D with his size then MAYBE he can be considered a once in a generation player. But it shouldn't even be debatable, it should be noticed by a common NBA fan i think. like a person ho doesn't watch basketball much, can easily watch lebron play a couple games and have an argument as to why bron in so special and rare. i don't think a common fan will sit down watch durant and think he is any more special than melo or tmac.

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

But yeah original question that dude refuses to answer: Besides LeBron, who else can and will pass and get those dimes that T-Mac gets for his size?

Boris Diaw, Lamar Odom, Mike Miller, Hedo Turkoglu, Kirilenko...etc etc....
I think you forgot my favorite passing centers in Brad Miller and Spencer Hawes. Oh don't forget the new star in Washington in Andray Blatche. Dude was getting 5 dimes a game in the regular before last week! I think even recently in NBA history, dudes like Webber and KG were seriously doing work on the passing the game. Yessurr!!

Lets be serious now man.

Mike Miller and AK have never averaged 5 assists a game during any season. Lets let them get some more dimes before we assume that they could consistently while running the offense.

Hedo has averaged 5 assists per game for two seasons when he was on the Magic. Yet, he can't do that on the Raptors with Jose Calderon on the bench.

Boris and Lamar are a little bit more special than the other players mentioned because they are arguably legit PFs with amazing passing skills. I agree that both can easily get 5+ assists per game with more PT, but until that happens we can't assume that they will. Both have before by the way, but we have to be consistent now.  

All in all, those players can get the dimes like T-Mac, but who actually will like T-Mac? Dude has gotten 5-6 dimes a game every season since he signed with the Magic and this while being the #1 option on offense. No, he is not better than LeBron, but no, those other players you mentioned don't fit in the category too.

 

[doublejs07]

nicedudewithnicedreams wrote:

---

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

But yeah original question that dude refuses to answer: Besides LeBron, who else can and will pass and get those dimes that T-Mac gets for his size?

Boris Diaw, Lamar Odom, Mike Miller, Hedo Turkoglu, Kirilenko...etc etc....
I think you forgot my favorite passing centers in Brad Miller and Spencer Hawes. Oh don't forget the new star in Washington in Andray Blatche. Dude was getting 5 dimes a game in the regular before last week! I think even recently in NBA history, dudes like Webber and KG were seriously doing work on the passing the game. Yessurr!!

Lets be serious now man.

Mike Miller and AK have never averaged 5 assists a game during any season. Lets let them get some more dimes before we assume that they could consistently while running the offense.

Hedo has averaged 5 assists per game for two seasons when he was on the Magic. Yet, he can't do that on the Raptors with Jose Calderon on the bench.

Boris and Lamar are a little bit more special than the other players mentioned because they are arguably legit PFs with amazing passing skills. I agree that both can easily get 5+ assists per game with more PT, but until that happens we can't assume that they will. Both have before by the way, but we have to be consistent now.  

All in all, those players can get the dimes like T-Mac, but who actually will like T-Mac? Dude has gotten 5-6 dimes a game every season since he signed with the Magic and this while being the #1 option on offense. No, he is not better than LeBron, but no, those other players you mentioned don't fit in the category too.




You're telling me to get serious but yet you were comparing Penny Hardaway to T-Mac & Grant Hill??  And before that, you were comparing a 37 year old Grant Hill to a 30 year old T-Mac. 

ALL of the players I named can pass the rock.  Every single one of them (with maybe the exception of AK47) can facilitate the offense from the post or on the perimeter.  You asked a question about guys who are around 6'8" that can and will get dimes like T-Mac.  I gave you an answer.  T-Mac may have better assist totals, but you can debate on whether or not he's the best pure passer of the guys I've mentioned.  It's subjective, but sometimes stats don't tell the whole story.   

With all this talk about Grant Hill, lets bring in Penny Hardaway as well and compare who was the best in court vision between Hill, Hardaway and T-Mac? Penny post surgery on the Knicks was not fun to watch though.


this was you, right?

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

nicedudewithnicedreams wrote:

---

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

But yeah original question that dude refuses to answer: Besides LeBron, who else can and will pass and get those dimes that T-Mac gets for his size?

Boris Diaw, Lamar Odom, Mike Miller, Hedo Turkoglu, Kirilenko...etc etc....

I think you forgot my favorite passing centers in Brad Miller and Spencer Hawes. Oh don't forget the new star in Washington in Andray Blatche. Dude was getting 5 dimes a game in the regular before last week! I think even recently in NBA history, dudes like Webber and KG were seriously doing work on the passing the game. Yessurr!!

Lets be serious now man.

Mike Miller and AK have never averaged 5 assists a game during any season. Lets let them get some more dimes before we assume that they could consistently while running the offense.

Hedo has averaged 5 assists per game for two seasons when he was on the Magic. Yet, he can't do that on the Raptors with Jose Calderon on the bench.

Boris and Lamar are a little bit more special than the other players mentioned because they are arguably legit PFs with amazing passing skills. I agree that both can easily get 5+ assists per game with more PT, but until that happens we can't assume that they will. Both have before by the way, but we have to be consistent now.  

All in all, those players can get the dimes like T-Mac, but who actually will like T-Mac? Dude has gotten 5-6 dimes a game every season since he signed with the Magic and this while being the #1 option on offense. No, he is not better than LeBron, but no, those other players you mentioned don't fit in the category too.




You're telling me to get serious but yet you were comparing Penny Hardaway to T-Mac & Grant Hill??  And before that, you were comparing a 37 year old Grant Hill to a 30 year old T-Mac. 

ALL of the players I named can pass the rock.  Every single one of them (with maybe the exception of AK47) can facilitate the offense from the post or on the perimeter.  You asked a question about guys who are around 6'8" that can and will get dimes like T-Mac.  I gave you an answer.  T-Mac may have better assist totals, but you can debate on whether or not he's the best pure passer of the guys I've mentioned.  It's subjective, but sometimes stats don't tell the whole story.   

With all this talk about Grant Hill, lets bring in Penny Hardaway as well and compare who was the best in court vision between Hill, Hardaway and T-Mac? Penny post surgery on the Knicks was not fun to watch though.


this was you, right?
I mean if we are going to roll with the subjective point of view, we can agree to disagree then. My stats or Osh's stats wouldn't be able to convince much to you anyways. And your point of view doesn't really have anything solid to fall back on. I mean yeah, I saw Hill and Penny growing up as a "kid" and thought they were amazing passers, but I also saw T-Mac play and his career stats so far do justify why he can be mentioned with those other two in passing. You can laugh and say Penny was so much better at it, but if you are going to just laugh or hit me with a Youtube vid, it's cool man. Just agree to disagree. Once again though, I am not saying T-Mac is better than Penny in court vision or passing, but it is not laughable to compare the two in those aspects. And if we are talking about overall game, yes, we can definitely have T-Mac up there with Penny and Hill too.

Stats might not tell the whole story, but stats sure do tell more than anyone's subjective point of view.      

 

[ph3n0m3n0n]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

But yeah original question that dude refuses to answer: Besides LeBron, who else can and will pass and get those dimes that T-Mac gets for his size?

Boris Diaw, Lamar Odom, Mike Miller, Hedo Turkoglu, Kirilenko...etc etc....

and if you want to go further back just look at Jalen Rose or a guy like Anthony Mason. 

Maybe because Lebron and Melo are in the league right now as well and they're all in the 6-8 to 6-10 range.


Are you implying that Melo is a once-in-a-generation type of talent?  Because we've seen 6'8" SF's who can score at ease JUST like him over the years.  There have been guys with similar-to-better skill sets than him at the same position. 

I'm implying that Melo scores a ton of points just like KD and Lebron do and he's in the 6-8 to 6-10 range. 


Or in simpler terms for you, I'm saying KD is not a once in a generation type player. 

Need it any simpler?