Killer Mike vs Noname (Capitalism Debate)

[wr]

 

[getback]

Confused by the poll. Do you have to "love" socialism to be opposed to pure capitalism?

 

[blastercombo]

Also, how are we going to co-sign American capitalism when white people were literally given free land from Oklahoma on just by running to it and planting a flag? Must be nice to get that head start then claim other people are just not as hard working

 

[wr]

Yup it’s only really “capitalism” in the USA if you one of the few in the owner class at the top....And even then those folks have no problem asking for and accepting bail outs and put things in place that prevent others from taking their spot instead of letting the markets work like what capitalism is supposed to be

Pure socialism would end up being a mess as well cuz no way would resources be allocated fairly due to racial differences...The lil bit of social safety nets/programs we do have now is already proof it’s not equal for everyone...There is a class of ppl that routinely vote and support things against their self interests because they don’t want other groups to benefit as well

The idea of racial classifications in the United States serves more as a benefits tracking system. That's why it's a problem for me why resources aren't allotted evenly unless the system is tracking the the benefits largely remaining in certain areas and sparse in others.

 

[sreggie101]

...not gonna lie this took me an extra min to get.


...also

>

 

[wr]

 

[Girl Thats Jules]

A lot of people here hate capitalism but love Nikes, iPhones, designer clothes, video games, etc.

 

[gry60]

Germany has a population that is 1/4th of ours and is 1/30th our size. It's a good example for various reasons though, and if I lived anywhere else it would be there. Also my airbnb tour guide (with no debt and two masters degrees) was dying to come to the U.S. btw (to live due to her masters degrees being useless since everyone has them)

Also most importantly, Germany is not socialist.

They're all dying to come here, until you educate them on what it is that they have to cover with those high salaries (everything).

I always tell my people, if you already have a family, don't come here and expect to live it up; if you're young, with a degree, single or married but don't have kids, feel free to try, as you'll definitely have less financial hurdles to overcome. Usually, the convo ends up with me recommending that they look into moving to Canada, as they seem generally more welcoming (but that's my outsider's perspective).

I still have to push back against the notion that a country's geographic size is a more important consideration than mere commitment when thinking about improving the quality of life of its citizens. India has just as much economic, demographic, and linguistic diversity, has 1 billion people, is a federal country, and they have a universal healthcare system. Furthermore, they've recently introduced plans to make access to academic papers free for all Indians under a national subscription plan. The grand goal is to invest in their population in order to position India among the top scientific nations in the future decades.

If nations of 10 of millions and nations of billions can invest in the wellbeing of their populations, what's our excuse in the US? It certainly can't be size. It's an issue of commitment.

 

[gry60]

The idea of racial classifications in the United States serves more as a benefits tracking system. That's why it's a problem for me why resources aren't allotted evenly unless the system is tracking the the benefits largely remaining in certain areas and sparse in others.

That's an interesting perspective.

Apparently in Finland, they don't have private schools, so wealthy people have to send their kids to public schools, and they have a stake in making sure that public education is well funded. In addition, when donations are made by individuals, they get split up equally among all schools to ensure that there are no disparities in funding.

Unfortunately, it is yet another solution that we will probably never consider here because the public/private school issue in this country really is a proxy war to maintain race and class separation.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Yea in DC, White folks have just been moving into certain neighborhoods and putting pressure on Council Members / MAyor Bowser to "clean the schools up" so they can stop spending $30K per year for Private schools. They eventually would LIKE to send their precious children to the Public Schools. Right now, you barely see any white kids in DC Public schools unless they are in certain areas.

gry60 I like what Finland is doing there.

 

[deusavertat]

Confused by the poll. Do you have to "love" socialism to be opposed to pure capitalism?

yea the poll needs an additional choice. Im not a capitalist pig or a "socialist". I am a socialist by poorly educated idiot from Alabama's definition though, I know that much.

 

[cosmiccoffee9]

this discussion would not have had any legs 10 years ago and that alone warms my heart.

 

[cosmiccoffee9]

...and for the record there's some room in my mind for capitalism but not very much.

I'm talking about baby bonds, income caps (100 percent taxation over a certain yearly amount) and a 90 percent capital gains tax.

use that to fund infrastructure fit for this century--magnet trains, weekend-long bridge repairs, rooftop gardens and green spaces in cities--along with subsidized schooling from kindergarten to 16th grade.

re-zone dead malls into free public housing. free healthcare for everyone, a minimum wage you can support kids on. universal basic income equal to about 6 month's expenses and hard restrictions on patent limitations.

finally, those who have benefited from societal inequities of the past must make restitution to those they have exploited. that means France paying Haiti and the Bank of America being dissolved into reparation fuel.

the ceiling may have to come way down, but the floor has to come way up otherwise this is not and won't be a society worth living in.

probably also help if powerful capitalist nations didn't try to strangle socialist-flavored societies with coups and embargoes.

...other than that, get your money.

 

[Comparison Ford]

A lot of people here hate capitalism but love Nikes, iPhones, designer clothes, video games, etc.

You right now:

 

[DCAllAfrican]

cosmiccoffee9 So many ideas there.

Can you speak more on, "use that to fund infrastructure fit for this century--magnet trains, weekend-long bridge repairs, rooftop gardens and green spaces in cities--along with subsidized schooling from kindergarten to 16th grade."

1. The accessibility to High Speed Rail is something that has been LONG overdue here.

2. The Green Space in most cities are non-existent and with more people moving into cities these days, I can't see that improving. (They have no issues with building UP though).

3. Rooftop gardens, why would "they" do that? EYE see the importance of them but why would they do that when they could put a pool and a courtyard up there and charge people $400 more on their rents/leases.

I come in Peace.

 

[cosmiccoffee9]

cosmiccoffee9 So many ideas there.

Can you speak more on, "use that to fund infrastructure fit for this century--magnet trains, weekend-long bridge repairs, rooftop gardens and green spaces in cities--along with subsidized schooling from kindergarten to 16th grade."

1. The accessibility to High Speed Rail is something that has been LONG overdue here.

2. The Green Space in most cities are non-existent and with more people moving into cities these days, I can't see that improving. (They have no issues with building UP though).

3. Rooftop gardens, why would "they" do that? EYE see the importance of them but why would they do that when they could put a pool and a courtyard up there and charge people $400 more on their rents/leases.

I come in Peace.

idk man, it's always been weird that people have no problem providing free school through 12th grade so people can read and write and do basic math problems (while staying off the streets so their parents can work) but even though we recognize that specialized post-secondary education is almost required for a good life, we put that behind a paywall.

re: infrastructure- look at this Dutch tunnel installation project and tell me the US isn't like 25 years behind on this ****.



1) takes like 18 hours to get from the Northeast to, say, Chicago by rail.....in other countries that's a 3-4 hour trip. to an extent, the delay is because Amtrak doesn't even have priority to run on most of its lines, commerce "built" those tracks (with public subsidies in many cases) so whenever frieght trains have to get through passenger trains stop...so nobody takes the train.

2) I'm all for more housing but to me green spaces are like libraries and public transportation, required for a decent place to live. you're right that the demand isn't where it needs to be, but maybe being locked inside for a year was a good reminder.

3) more and more supermarkets and all are starting to embrace rooftop gardens, it's a good way to produce produce and save on shipping. I could see people demanding more places to grow their own food with this new focus on health and wellness in society...maybe one day we can get to the point where cities plant fruit trees instead of some useless spruce.


sure, there may be resistance but in the end it all comes down to what the public wants...it's how we got weekends.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I agree with all of that. Many folks never think about taking the train. It can be more enjoyable than the Air because of scenery and leg-room.




cosmiccoffee9
"Produce Produce." - I would question it if it were someone else but knowing you THAT was intentional.

 

[frshstunna]

Yea in DC, White folks have just been moving into certain neighborhoods and putting pressure on Council Members / MAyor Bowser to "clean the schools up" so they can stop spending $30K per year for Private schools. They eventually would LIKE to send their precious children to the Public Schools. Right now, you barely see any white kids in DC Public schools unless they are in certain areas.

gry60 I like what Finland is doing there.

In a decade or 2 we’ll see the flight cycle happen again when all these young gentrifyers moving back into the city have kids thats real school age...They not sending em to city schools, back to the suburbs they go ...They’ll trade the brunches n festivals for making sure their youngins go to the big school with the nice rep

 

[frshstunna]

High speed would be the most efficient and easiest way to travel up to like 500-800 miles...No reason to have to hop on a flight from SF to LA or like DC to ATL but it’s so many groups lobbying against it (for capitalistic reasons) that it will be a long while before it gains any real traction

 

[gry60]

this discussion would not have had any legs 10 years ago and that alone warms my heart.

Yesterday, I watched "Capital" by Picketty on Netflix, and after reading reviews on the book I found out about another piece on economic inequality (The Great Leveler).

Amazon product ASIN 0691183252

Product Description
Are mass violence and catastrophes the only forces that can seriously decrease economic inequality? To judge by thousands of years of history, the answer is yes. Tracing the global history of inequality from the Stone Age to today, Walter Scheidel shows that it never dies peacefully. The Great Leveler is the first book to chart the crucial role of violent shocks in reducing inequality over the full sweep of human history around the world. The “Four Horsemen” of leveling―mass-mobilization warfare, transformative revolutions, state collapse, and catastrophic plagues―have repeatedly destroyed the fortunes of the rich. Today, the violence that reduced inequality in the past seems to have diminished, and that is a good thing. But it casts serious doubt on the prospects for a more equal future. An essential contribution to the debate about inequality, The Great Leveler provides important new insights about why inequality is so persistent―and why it is unlikely to decline anytime soon.

Not looking good for us if we keep entertaining the trickle-down economics nonsense

 

[gry60]

Yea in DC, White folks have just been moving into certain neighborhoods and putting pressure on Council Members / MAyor Bowser to "clean the schools up" so they can stop spending $30K per year for Private schools. They eventually would LIKE to send their precious children to the Public Schools. Right now, you barely see any white kids in DC Public schools unless they are in certain areas.

gry60 I like what Finland is doing there.

Why Are Finland's Schools Successful?

The country's achievements in education have other nations, especially the United States, doing their homework

www.smithsonianmag.com

This tale of a single rescued child hints at some of the reasons for the tiny Nordic nation’s staggering record of education success, a phenomenon that has inspired, baffled and even irked many of America’s parents and educators. Finnish schooling became an unlikely hot topic after the 2010 documentary film Waiting for “Superman” contrasted it with America’s troubled public schools.

“Whatever it takes” is an attitude that drives not just Kirkkojarvi’s 30 teachers, but most of Finland’s 62,000 educators in 3,500 schools from Lapland to Turku—professionals selected from the top 10 percent of the nation’s graduates to earn a required master’s degree in education. Many schools are small enough so that teachers know every student. If one method fails, teachers consult with colleagues to try something else. They seem to relish the challenges. Nearly 30 percent of Finland’s children receive some kind of special help during their first nine years of school. The school where Louhivuori teaches served 240 first through ninth graders last year; and in contrast with Finland’s reputation for ethnic homogeneity, more than half of its 150 elementary-level students are immigrants—from Somalia, Iraq, Russia, Bangladesh, Estonia and Ethiopia, among other nations. “Children from wealthy families with lots of education can be taught by stupid teachers,” Louhivuori said, smiling. “We try to catch the weak students. It’s deep in our thinking.”

The transformation of the Finns’ education system began some 40 years ago as the key propellent of the country’s economic recovery plan. Educators had little idea it was so successful until 2000, when the first results from the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA), a standardized test given to 15-year-olds in more than 40 global venues, revealed Finnish youth to be the best young readers in the world. Three years later, they led in math. By 2006, Finland was first out of 57 countries (and a few cities) in science. In the 2009 PISA scores released last year, the nation came in second in science, third in reading and sixth in math among nearly half a million students worldwide. “I’m still surprised,” said Arjariita Heikkinen, principal of a Helsinki comprehensive school. “I didn’t realize we were that good.”

Ninety-three percent of Finns graduate from academic or vocational high schools, 17.5 percentage points higher than the United States, and 66 percent go on to higher education, the highest rate in the European Union. Yet Finland spends about 30 percent less per student than the United States.

 

[wr]

My local grocery has a hydroponic micro greenery and a rooftop garden.

Def agree on the green spaces.

 

[Present]

 

[Girl Thats Jules]

This is one of them “dumb smart” comments you see all over YouTube comments

So you're probably one of these same hippocrates I'm talking about? I see it provoked a reaction.

 

[noskey]

Yesterday, I watched "Capital" by Picketty on Netflix,

TIL Netflix has Capital on their platform. Thanks for the notice, will give it a watch since I've got the book sitting and waiting to be read too.