KOBE HAS NO RIVAL?????

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

But Shaq was "SuperMan" though... So that made Kobe... Batman... Right?�

 
Shaq was Superman, Batman, and the HNIC.  Kobe was Robin, the Vice Principal, and as Timberland said in referring to Scott Storch when working with Dr. Dre........."just the piano man".

but without kobe, shaq would have only 1 ring.. and if you look at it like that.. shaq would never win anything without a star guard, penny, kobe wade.

 

[Lizakers]

I agree that he had no rival in his career

given Kobe's longevity at an elite level - All star for every year except his rookie year - you can't find a rival.

There were many players that were near Kobe's level for a couple seasons - VC, T-Mac, Pierce, Ray, AI - but none of them maintained it for the duration that Kobe did, and is still doing.

I mean, leading the league in scoring in your 16th season is pretty damn impressive.

Durant, Lebron, Rose, etc are all amazing players, but can't be considered his rivals because of the age difference and them being at different stages in their careers.

 

[deuce king]

but without kobe, shaq would have only 1 ring..
  What makes you say that??

and if you look at it like that.. shaq would never win anything without a star guard, penny, kobe wade.

 
In basketball terms generally speaking, for any team to win or have won a championship there is always a good scoring duo or a team that has good scorers on it.  Which is what is needed to win, just look at all the past championship teams.  Either way, no matter how folks want to slice it or TRY to rewrite the history books during that tenure, Shaq was the 1st option, the main scoring threat, and the HNIC, while Kobe was second in command..............NEVER  the first option.  Kobe played his role as Robin when Shaq was in town and he played it well.  In movie terms since we're talking about the Lakers, Kobe won for best SUPPORTING actor, while Shaq won for best LEAD actor.  One is clearly harder and carriers more weight than the other.

Edit--

There were many players that were near Kobe's level for a couple seasons - VC, T-Mac, Pierce, Ray, AI - but none of them maintained it for the duration that Kobe did, and is still doing.

I mean, leading the league in scoring in your 16th season is pretty damn impressive
Agreed.

 

[CP1708]

Deuce, if you will, take the time to go look this all up for me, come back, tell me what you find. 

Indy, Philly, NJ.  Finals
Port, San An, Sac, Conference Finals. 

Which group of 3 were better?  The conference finals teams out West, yes?  We agree there? 

Do me a favor, go check the numbers of 21, 22, and 23 year old Kobe vs them 3 teams vs Shaq's, tell me what you see. 

 

[deuce king]

Which group of 3 were better?  The conference finals teams out West, yes?  We agree there? 


Yes we agree on this.

Do me a favor, go check the numbers of 21, 22, and 23 year old Kobe vs them 3 teams vs Shaq's, tell me what you see.
Noticed you said "go check the numbers" cause you know that if you or I check the video tapes of those games we are going to see Shaq being doubled and sometimes tripled teamed, and rightfully so because you and I both know those conference finals teams out West had better and stronger frontcourt players to match up against Shaq than either of those Finals teams.  What would Shaq do when he was double teamed, he would kick it out to a wide-open Kobe in which Kobe was set up to make an easy basket.  As I said before, Kobe did his job and did it well back then, and he's still continuing to do his job well.  It's just the roles for him are reversed now from where they were years ago when Kobe was with Shaq as Kobe was second in command.

I'll still go check out those numbers though as you asked.

 

[Pathos]

Originally Posted by jonwin

Originally Posted by MoonMan818

Originally Posted by RetroSan

Shaq needed Kobe more than Kobe needed Shaq

dudes forget that Kobe almost damn near got to the finals with Kwame Brown and Smush Parker

WHEN WAS THIS?!?!

WAS I IN A COMA FOR A YEAR?

That's what I'm saying. 

my fault i meant the Western Conference Finals, there is a difference 

but i still stand by my statement

 

[Lizakers]

Originally Posted by RetroSan

Originally Posted by jonwin

Originally Posted by MoonMan818


WHEN WAS THIS?!?!

WAS I IN A COMA FOR A YEAR?

That's what I'm saying. 

my fault i meant the Western Conference Finals, there is a difference 

but i still stand by my statement

year 1 with Kwame/Smush - up 3-1 vs Phoenix in first round, then they lost in 7
year 2 with Kwame/Smush - lost 4-1 vs Phoenix in first round
year 3 - Kwame traded mid-season


come on son!!

 

[Pathos]

Originally Posted by Rex Ryan

Originally Posted by jonwin

Originally Posted by MoonMan818


WHEN WAS THIS?!?!

WAS I IN A COMA FOR A YEAR?

That's what I'm saying. 

i wouldn't go as far as saying almost made the finals BUT had kwame brown got an easy rebound then tim thomas doesn't make the biggest shot of his career and the Lakers are playing the Clippers in the 2nd round and I like their chances in that series.

that was the season Kobe dominated the Mavs as well and while I doubt that Laker team could've beat the Mavs, i swear if kwame gets that rebound they for sure make the conference finals in 06

my fault i meant the western conference finals 

, but i still stand by statement

 

[flowsomuch]

It gets lonely at the top.

 

[18th letter]

Originally Posted by Lizaker4Lizife

I agree that he had no rival in his career

given Kobe's longevity at an elite level - All star for every year except his rookie year - you can't find a rival.

There were many players that were near Kobe's level for a couple seasons - VC, T-Mac, Pierce, Ray, AI - but none of them maintained it for the duration that Kobe did, and is still doing.

Dirk.

 

[CP1708]

Deuce King wrote:

Do me a favor, go check the numbers of 21, 22, and 23 year old Kobe vs them 3 teams vs Shaq's, tell me what you see.
Noticed you said "go check the numbers" cause you know that if you or I check the video tapes of those games we are going to see Shaq being doubled and sometimes tripled teamed, and rightfully so because you and I both know those conference finals teams out West had better and stronger frontcourt players to match up against Shaq than either of those Finals teams.  What would Shaq do when he was double teamed, he would kick it out to a wide-open Kobe in which Kobe was set up to make an easy basket.  As I said before, Kobe did his job and did it well back then, and he's still continuing to do his job well.  It's just the roles for him are reversed now from where they were years ago when Kobe was with Shaq as Kobe was second in command.

I'll still go check out those numbers though as you asked.
So you're saying that when they double Shaq, they doubled OFF of Kobe? 

  You said Kobe was wide open, as in those teams left Kobe to go get Shaq. 

That sounds right to you? 

  

 

[man listen]

If it wasn't for injuries his rivals would have been Penny and Grant Hill

 

[Lizakers]

Kobe would take over in those years in the 4th quarter of playoffs games because Shaq couldn't make free throws so you couldn't give him the ball.

Remember Kobe's rebound and put back vs. San Antonio?

Remember his OT performance vs. Indiana?

oh my god, his games against Portland, San Antonio and Sacramento were legendary. That's how he made his name. In those years in the conference finals against the best teams when the East was garbage.

Shaq was dominant. But so was Kobe in that three peat. That what made the Lakers so good to win 3 in a row. something no other team has done in 40+ years

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Originally Posted by Lizaker4Lizife

Originally Posted by RetroSan

Originally Posted by jonwin

That's what I'm saying. 

my fault i meant the Western Conference Finals, there is a difference 

but i still stand by my statement

year 1 with Kwame/Smush - up 3-1 vs Phoenix in first round, then they lost in 7
year 2 with Kwame/Smush - lost 4-1 vs Phoenix in first round
year 3 - Kwame traded mid-season


come on son!!

But yes, I agree with what most are saying about Kobe's longevity making him not have a legit rival...

Is it fair to say the same for MJ? Because really he came in right as Bird, Magic, Thomas were going out, and then he ran through the Knicks, Pacers, Jazz......

 

[deuce king]

You said Kobe was wide open, as in those teams left Kobe to go get Shaq. 


Meaning a smart player or good scorer at the time, which Kobe was of course would simply have to rotate over to where Shaq was so Shaq could kick it out to the side where the double team was to for that open player to have a better scoring opportunity.

Shaq was dominant. But so was Kobe in that three peat



Kobe just as DOMINANT as Shaq in that three peat??  We've reached an all-time low here on the boards with that statement and it's all thanks to you champ.

 

[srvballer]

He really never had a true rival. Kobe's biggest rival was Shaq

 

[IATT]

ummm.. if magic (a point guard) and bird (a small forward) can have this great historical rivally


why isn't duncan (a power forward) able to be one for kobe (a shooting guard)?



i get it isn't sexy.. but still

 

[brandon3000]

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[Lizakers]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

You said Kobe was wide open, as in those teams left Kobe to go get Shaq. 

Meaning a smart player or good scorer at the time, which Kobe was of course would simply have to rotate over to where Shaq was so Shaq could kick it out to the side where the double team was to for that open player to have a better scoring opportunity.

Shaq was dominant. But so was Kobe in that three peat



Kobe just as DOMINANT as Shaq in that three peat??  We've reached an all-time low here on the boards with that statement and it's all thanks to you champ.
they were both dominant in different ways.
Shaq was unguardable in the paint, but he couldn't be given the ball in the clutch because of his free throws

Kobe was dominant as a closer, and as a defender.  He was an AMAZING on-the-ball defender, and he would get a ton of weakside blocks and steals.  People have seemingly forgot about Kobe in his prime.

As a closer, Kobe was the guy who would win the game in the 4th quarters.  He did it over and over and over again against the Spurs, Kings, Blazers, Pacers, Sixers, and Nets.

 

[Lizakers]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

ummm.. if magic (a point guard) and bird (a small forward) can have this great historical rivally


why isn't duncan (a power forward) able to be one for kobe (a shooting guard)?



i get it isn't sexy.. but still

Duncan and Kobe were a lot more different than Magic and Bird.  Duncan is a PF low-post player, Kobe is a SG perimeter player

But Bird and Magic were about the same size, and both were great passers and rebounders.  Obviously they played different positions, but their similarites were greater than Duncan/Kobe

 

[ag 47]

As a closer, Kobe was the guy who would win the game in the 4th quarters. He did it over and over and over again against the Spurs, Kings, Blazers, Pacers, Sixers, and Nets.


Truth. A point often overlooked is that the "Hack a Shaq" forced LA to sit Shaquille in those closing minutes of the game. The team SOLELY relied on Kobe to score points and finish games during those times. And he did.

 

[CP1708]

Bird and Magic were also linked in college, obviously not so with Kobe/Duncan.  Also, because Magic was like an inch shorter than Bird, they could actually match up in given moments, again, not so much with Kobe/Duncan. 

And Kobe's teams have won 4 out of 5 playoff series vs Duncan with Phil in town, so there's that. 

Duncan rivalved against Sheed, KG, Webber, guys at his exact same position.  He and Kobe never had any sort of link. 

 

[krazyrodzilla]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

You said Kobe was wide open, as in those teams left Kobe to go get Shaq. 

Meaning a smart player or good scorer at the time, which Kobe was of course would simply have to rotate over to where Shaq was so Shaq could kick it out to the side where the double team was to for that open player to have a better scoring opportunity.

Shaq was dominant. But so was Kobe in that three peat



Kobe just as DOMINANT as Shaq in that three peat??  We've reached an all-time low here on the boards with that statement and it's all thanks to you champ.

I think people forget about the playoff run (not finals, but playoffs) Kobe and Shaq were killing during the playoff run against the west bigs(2000-2002). It's just when the Lakers got to the finals they face "NO BIGS" so Shaq REALLY had a chance to kill. The Lakers finals for that 3 year run wasn't actually the finals, was the West Conf. of those years, that was the real test. Those finals were somewhat of a cake walk. 4-2, 4-1 and 4-0.

 

[mister friendly]

Originally Posted by AG 47

As a closer, Kobe was the guy who would win the game in the 4th quarters. He did it over and over and over again against the Spurs, Kings, Blazers, Pacers, Sixers, and Nets.

Truth. A point often overlooked is that the "Hack a Shaq" forced LA to sit Shaquille in those closing minutes of the game. The team SOLELY relied on Kobe to score points and finish games during those times. And he did.

 

[deuce king]

Originally Posted by Krazyrodzilla

Originally Posted by Deuce King

You said Kobe was wide open, as in those teams left Kobe to go get Shaq. 

Meaning a smart player or good scorer at the time, which Kobe was of course would simply have to rotate over to where Shaq was so Shaq could kick it out to the side where the double team was to for that open player to have a better scoring opportunity.

Shaq was dominant. But so was Kobe in that three peat

Kobe just as DOMINANT as Shaq in that three peat??  We've reached an all-time low here on the boards with that statement and it's all thanks to you champ.

I think people forget about the playoff run (not finals, but playoffs) Kobe and Shaq were killing during the playoff run against the west bigs(2000-2002). It's just when the Lakers got to the finals they face "NO BIGS" so Shaq REALLY had a chance to kill. The Lakers finals for that 3 year run wasn't actually the finals, was the West Conf. of those years, that was the real test. Those finals were somewhat of a cake walk. 4-2, 4-1 and 4-0.





I already answered this point earlier regarding the defensive attacks that Shaq faced versus the ones that Kobe faced.  Shaq was often double teamed, and Kobe was not.  Also, if we really want to get a good look at things, lets look at which player between the two really got either of those three peat teams in the playoffs to begin with and got them ranked as high as the seed they were at. Which player between the two was awarded an MVP trophy during their tenure, so on and so forth.   

they were both dominant in different ways.
Shaq was unguardable in the paint, but he couldn't be given the ball in the clutch because of his free throws

Kobe was dominant as a closer, and as a defender.  He was an AMAZING on-the-ball defender, and he would get a ton of weakside blocks and steals.  People have seemingly forgot about Kobe in his prime.

As a closer, Kobe was the guy who would win the game in the 4th quarters.  He did it over and over and over again against the Spurs, Kings, Blazers, Pacers, Sixers, and Nets
When you put it like that, a case can be made for Kobe being dominant

, however between the two which is what this comparison was about to begin with Shaq was way more dominant overall than Kobe.