LEBRON, THE DISAPPOINTMENT?

Will Lebron be considered the best of all time?

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Longtime Lurker here.

My question is:If Lebron stayed, how was Cleveland going to get better? 

They didn't have trade bait. Free agents weren't going there. Lastly, they constantly made the playoffs aka mediocre draft picks.

The Cavs with Lebron plateaued.

I didn't have a problem with the Big Three joining forces. Look at their individual playoff runs (excluding Wade and Shaq).

They weren't getting it done by themselves.
 
I think we should put it in this perspective, it's still a team game. Cleveland was swept. Bron and his teammates got swept. And, with the GOAT discussion, no doubt MJ got my vote as it's him who I grew up watching. Same thing as the old timers would say it's Russel.

A little off topic but, which bears more relevance the GOAT team or player?
 
JapanAir21 said:
What was Mike doing in his first three years without Pippen? First round exits. First round sweeps. LeBron never got swept in the first round, Cleveland or Miami. LeBron reached the Finals without anybody, in his fourth year.

Just putting it in perspective.
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Definitely understand that . LeBron wasn't doing much without Larry Hughes and Anderson Varejao either. Not comparing those players to Scottie by the way. LeBron definitely needed help before making the playoffs.

Also the whole switching teams thing also seals his fate on being the greatest ever. People are gonna come up with the same old tired argument about him switching teams. I actually agree with them though. If your the best player in the world, why not make superstars come to you? Dwyane Wade won.
 
But seriously,let's be honest here:  What's a bigger accomplishment..... Winning a ring with two HOF (ex Rodman & Pippen) or just getting to the Finals with an old Donyell Marshall, Ira Newble, and Sasha Pavelovic as key players in your rotation?
 
ill steelo said:
edit: nevermind, just looked at the SN.
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Pretty much when OP said "The Miami Heat will not be Title Contenders in a year and half" thats pretty much when I realized how useless I felt after posting in here, you know, with an "open-mind".
 
CoupeIt88 said:
Pretty much when OP said "The Miami Heat will not be Title Contenders in a year and half" thats pretty much when I realized how useless I felt after posting in here, you know, with an "open-mind".
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:lol:

I bet you still haven't read the articles, I'm not pulling this out of my butt
 
I read the articles last night, good articles brought up some interesting scenarios. However where's the article that shows how, why, and can LeBron James and Miami Heat can win 4 or 5 straight? What you have basically said is that he stops at 3 championships and they have will not have a chance after next season. At least say it will become more difficult to win a championship and they can absolutely be contenders if the 3 amigos continue to say in tact.

You want balance, objectivity, and an "open mind" but you're running around here saying you know LeBron and the Heat don't have a chance a year and half from now. Come on dude.
 
[COLOR=#red]How many effing rings did Wilt Chamberlain have (2 and it took nearly a decade to get his first one)? Yet he is considered one of the best if not the best that ever played and yes that can be argued. How many rings did Bill Russell acquire (11)? He is considered one of the greats but not really in the argument of the best ever.

Please stop with the ring tally as a testament to the best ever OR we'll have to start bringing Robert Horry in the discussion...heck he got at least two rings from THREE different teams for a total of 7 in a 16 year career. That averages almost 1 ring every other year.

Gosh people's logic is so screwed just to deny a particular player his greatness (Lebron). For the record I think that Jordan is better at the end of the day than Lebron ever will be, but it has very little to do with the ring count.[/COLOR]
 
Mister Friendly said:
Come into this thread with an open mind.


In the midst of the Miami Heat winning streak and Lebron having another MVP type of season.

Lebron is finally the undisputed best player in the world with no flaws in the his game .

If everything goes to great for his team they will win their 2nd straight NBA championship this year.

Lebron is in his prime but hes also turning 29 this year and most NBA players historically not named Michael Jordan have declined after the age 30. His sidekick Dwyane Wade is already 31.

So I'm thinking how much longer can the Lebron's teams contend for championships and if you look at it logically with the way the new collective bargaining agreement is set up, 2014 is the probably the last year the Miami Heat will win the championship with its current core.

That would leave Lebron at age 30 with a declining or diminished team around him.

Then I start to think he probably cant add positively to his NBA legacy. I start to think about what his legacy would be..... 3 championships with probably 4 or 5 MVPs and that's when I start to get a little disappointed.

I know it sounds crazy!

But think about it...Lebron was supposed to be the "Chosen One"," We were all Witnesses"to his greatness, King James of all time lore...basically he was gonna be the best player ever. But with just 3 championships, you really cant say hes the best of all time. Jordan, Russell, Kareem would clearly be better, in fact you could even make the argument that Magic, Kobe, Bird, Shaq and Duncan are equals if not slightly better based off championships.

I really think the chances he blew in the 2010 NBA Playoffs and the 2011 NBA Finals will prevent him from being in the discussion for the All Time Greatest
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It is only a disappointment to people that think he is the best ever. He is far from flawless as a player.

Having a stacked team may work against him if the Heat don't win at least 3 titles. He has one of the best PFs and 2nd best SG on his team and a bunch of role players that play amazing defense and are automatic from the line. These days he can play 1 on 1 and if he is double it is an automatic assist. It is the perfect situation for him.

It may get difficult if his role players start declining as well. All of the Heat shooters, except for chalmers, are old. It is gonna be hard for the Heat to keep reloading cause there is only one Ray Allen and only one Battier. Plus you mentioned that new bargaining agreement.
 
knightngale said:
It is only a disappointment to people that think he is the best ever. [COLOR=#red]He is far from flawless as a player. [/COLOR]

Having a stacked team may work against him if the Heat don't win at least 3 titles. He has one of the best PFs and 2nd best SG on his team and a bunch of role players that play amazing defense and are automatic from the line. These days he can play 1 on 1 and if he is double it is an automatic assist. It is the perfect situation for him.

It may get difficult if his role players start declining as well. All of the Heat shooters, except for chalmers, are old. It is gonna be hard for the Heat to keep reloading cause there is only one Ray Allen and only one Battier. Plus you mentioned that new bargaining agreement.
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[COLOR=#red]But who the eff is a flawless player? Gosh I feel less intelligent every time I read these type of threads in the S&T forums, yet I do it to myself by actually reading them :rofl:[/COLOR]
 
Mister Friendly said:
MJs 28 and Lebrons 28 are very different

MJ was only 7 years in the NBA while Lebron is 10 years in.

Those extra years of NBA mileage may eventually add up .MJ had less mileage on him at 32 when he came back for the 2nd 3 peat then Lebron will at 29.

His Lebrons career arc is more comparable to other high school phenomenons like Kobes or Garnetts.

When did Kobe stop getting better or start to descend? I think you could say after 2009 season when he was 30-31.

When did Garnett stop being as dominant? When he was around 31.

Lebron leaving his prime will probably happen around the same thing the Miami Heat will face huge luxury tax problems

To say Lebron is gonna get 7 championships staying in Miami is foolish, he needs 5 more including this year, he would be trying to get his 7 championship at age 33.

Theres no way they'll be able to keep the talent around him going past the 2014 season without severe repercussions with the way the new CBA is set up. Even if they could keep the him, Wade and Bosh together there's a strong chance they would be defeated by a more"complete" team in the seasons after 2014.

And would leave Lebron with 3 championships which is a great accomplishment but far less than greatest of all time type accomplishments. Which would be dissapointing.
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Amen !!!!!
 
Its like when the convo was mike vs kobe rings mattered, it was always mj never lost in a finals 6/6. Not once did I see anybody come with this rings dont matter talk or whatever ot is. Not until lebron kicked it into overdrive n started putting up huge numbers then it became kobe vs lbj. Then all ofa sudden this rings dont define a player etc etc etc I mean thats the #1 argument I see for mike everytime u compare anyone to him. I never once heard none of these dudes ever use that argument before ever now all of a sudden rings dont matter or whatever. even tho I agree kinda rings always will matter always. Theres no way u can be the goat n not win at least 3 in a 10+ year tenure imo
 
^^ thank you! It's like saying points don't matter, wins don't matter, assists don't matter.... Why not? Because he doesn't have them?
 
CoupeIt88 said:
I read the articles last night, good articles brought up some interesting scenarios. However where's the article that shows how, why, and can LeBron James and Miami Heat can win 4 or 5 straight? What you have basically said is that he stops at 3 championships and they have will not have a chance after next season. At least say it will become more difficult to win a championship and they can absolutely be contenders if the 3 amigos continue to say in tact.

You want balance, objectivity, and an "open mind" but you're running around here saying you know LeBron and the Heat don't have a chance a year and half from now. Come on dude.
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I think your definition of contenders is different from mine.

To me, a contender is a team I'd put $5000 on in Vegas before the season.

Like this year there's only 3 contenders at the most....Miami, San Antonio and OKC. Everybody else like the Clippers are just dark horses.

So to say during the 2015 season, the Heat may be the 3rd to 5th best team in the NBA isn't a stretch

Especially when your team is Lebron, 30 year old Bosh and a 33 year declining Wade and a bunch of Roger Mason,Jason Maxiell, Pablo Prigioni, Royal Ivey, Ian Mahinmi type veterans, 2nd rounders and college free agents.

That's what its gonna be because of the cap.
 
Mister Friendly said:
CoupeIt88 said:
I read the articles last night, good articles brought up some interesting scenarios. However where's the article that shows how, why, and can LeBron James and Miami Heat can win 4 or 5 straight? What you have basically said is that he stops at 3 championships and they have will not have a chance after next season. At least say it will become more difficult to win a championship and they can absolutely be contenders if the 3 amigos continue to say in tact.

You want balance, objectivity, and an "open mind" but you're running around here saying you know LeBron and the Heat don't have a chance a year and half from now. Come on dude.
Click to expand...


I think your definition of contenders is different from mine.

To me, a contender is a team I'd put $5000 on in Vegas before the season.

Like this year there's only 3 contenders at the most....Miami, San Antonio and OKC. Everybody else like the Clippers are just dark horses.

So to say during the 2015 season, the Heat may be the 3rd to 5th best team in the NBA isn't a stretch

Especially when your team is Lebron, 30 year old Bosh and a 33 year declining Wade and a bunch of Roger Mason,Jason Maxiell, Pablo Prigioni, Royal Ivey, Ian Mahinmi type veterans, 2nd rounders and college free agents.

That's what its gonna be because of the cap.
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No it won't.

Mark Cuban thought the NBA was going to head this route but as long as there are ringless vets the Heat will have a solid team.

What makes Lebron so great is that he allows the players around him to do what they do well.

There will always be cheap shooters.
 
Last edited:
One more thing OJ Mayo just signed a two year 8 million dollar contract with the Mavs.

You don't think the Heat will be able to pull players like that in the future?

Also the other teams in the NBA are operating under the same rules as Lebron so what mythological team in going to build a team that can beat the Heat in the next 2 years?
 
I don't know about all that but that new contrived corny bootlegged ray Lewis celebration he does now is mad OD'd! That stare is silly too. Just hoop n go back to before without all the extras bruh...
 
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