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AWFUL THREAD :x
LEBRON, THE DISAPPOINTMENT?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by mister friendly,
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You do realize that Mike won all 6 of his chips with other HOFers, top 3 sf of all time, who happened to be considered one of the 50 greatest players ever right was there for ALL SIX. During his 1st 3 peat he had not 1 but TWO PG's who could really shoot and stretch the floor, not to mention shooters at other positions, Craig Hodges one of the best shooters of all time. Had a PF who was good defensively and on the boards who was good on the low block and cash money out to 18ft in Horace Grant. Not to mention a couple of 7fters who were actually coordinated enough to play defense and rebound.
And yeah... that 2nd 3 peat he also had one of the greatest rebounders & defensive players of all time in Rodman, who's also a HOFer. Another 7fter who could rebound and play defense. Oh and more shooters in Steve Kerr, regarded as one of the best ever, and Jud Buchler.
Not to mention he played for one of the greatest coaches of ALL TIME regardless of sport throughout that entire time.
Mike was absolutely amazing and the GOAT imo and he got the glory deservedly so, but lets not act like he was playing with Hakeem's 1st championship Rockets team enroute to those 6 rings.
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darthska
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It's always nice to see a fan of a team keep things in perspective. Props, CAKE. 
Mike absolutely had help, GREAT help.
Was never a doubt that he was the best on the floor, but he definitely experienced success w/ a strong supporting cast.
Mike absolutely had help, GREAT help.Was never a doubt that he was the best on the floor, but he definitely experienced success w/ a strong supporting cast.
gllahone84
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wait...what?
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Scottie Pippen not a top 3 sf of all of time. Hes probably in the 6-10 range.( the names Bird, James, Erving, Hondo, Baylor, Barry or Nique ring a bell)Did you really mention Graig Hodges?!?
Just because you remember Hodges winning some 3 point contests when you were a kid doesnt make him a good player.
James Jones won a 3pt contest, that doesnt make him a good player and hes still better than Hodges was during the first 3 peat.
Hodges wasnt even there for the whole 3 peat!
And when he was he playing 10 minutes a game, averaging 4.5 points a game and shooting 37 pct from 3 point range.James Jones was at least giving 6 PPG and shooting 43 pct from 3 pt range during the 2011 Heat Finals loss season
Paxson, I assume thats the other guy you are mentioning was ok but this Paxson stretched the floor for Jordan is non sense. Do you realize Mario Chalmers made more 3 pointers in the 2011 season than Paxson did during the whole Bulls 1st 3peat?
Chalmers is a far better player and it could be argued that Chalmers is talented enough that he could go to a different team and average 15-18 ppg, you could never say that about Paxson.
Horace Grant was ok but hes not even in Chris Bosh's league in talent and production. Grant only made 1 all star team and that was in 1994!
Who are these 7 footers who could play defense and rebound during the 3 peats? Cartwright and Perdue and then the 3 headed monster?
Those guys were below average to average at best. You gotta remember this was a time when there was alot great big men in the NBA
I have no problem about what you saying about Rodman. he definitely helped take the Bulls to the next level.
Steve Kerr was a good role player but it could be argued Chalmers gives you the same if not more.
And Buchler get out of here with that!
I guess we are gonna say Sasha Vujacic was crucial part of the Lakers recent back to back because he hit a basket every now and then
Yes, Phil is one of the greatest coaches of all of time.
Jordan had help everybody has help but lets not overrate the help he had
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Horace Grant was a problem.
He's the only Bull during that run that was underrated.
He's the only Bull during that run that was underrated.
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Did you really mention Graig Hodges?!?
Just because you remember Hodges winning some 3 point contests when you were a kid doesnt make him a good player.
James Jones won a 3pt contest, that doesnt make him a good player and hes still better than Hodges was during the first 3 peat.
Hodges wasnt even there for the whole 3 peat!
And when he was he playing 10 minutes a game, averaging 4.5 points a game and shooting 37 pct from 3 point range.James Jones was at least giving 6 PPG and shooting 43 pct from 3 pt range during the 2011 Heat Finals loss season
Paxson, I assume thats the other guy you are mentioning was ok but this Paxson stretched the floor for Jordan is non sense. Do you realize Mario Chalmers made more 3 pointers in the 2011 season than Paxson did during the whole Bulls 1st 3peat?
Chalmers is a far better player and it could be argued that Chalmers is talented enough that he could go to a different team and average 15-18 ppg, you could never say that about Paxson.
Horace Grant was ok but hes not even in Chris Bosh's league in talent and production. Grant only made 1 all star team and that was in 1994!
Who are these 7 footers who could play defense and rebound during the 3 peats? Cartwright and Perdue and then the 3 headed monster?
Those guys were below average to average at best. You gotta remember this was a time when there was alot great big men in the NBA
I have no problem about what you saying about Rodman. he definitely helped take the Bulls to the next level.
Steve Kerr was a good role player but it could be argued Chalmers gives you the same if not more.
And Buchler get out of here with that!
I guess we are gonna say Sasha Vujacic was crucial part of the Lakers recent back to back because he hit a basket every now and then
Yes, Phil is one of the greatest coaches of all of time.
Jordan had help everybody has help but lets not overrate the help he had
Well considering that Larry & Magic named Scottie as a top 3 SF of all time I'm going to go ahead and take their opinion as to where he ranks over yours. Big Game James as great as he was, played with Magic his entire career who is the greatest PG ever who made EVERYONE LOOK GOOD, we never got a chance to see him on his own. Meanwhile Scottie took the same team minus Mike to a phantom bull **** foul away from a 4th straight finals appearance while finishing 2nd in MVP voiting. You named a lot of scorers, outside of Larry & James none of them were known to play any defense. Scottie was more versatile/complete player than every single SF you listed. He guarded 1-5, he played positions 1-4 (which none of those other players did) he shot the long ball, had the midrange, played in the post, ran the offense, distributed the ball, and guarded the opposing teams best player while getting you 22, 8, & 5.
Yeah... I'm not even going to entertain the Craig Hodges remarks.
As far as the Paxson/Bj to Mario 3 point comparison. The game was very different the 3 point shot wasn't used as frequently as it is today. The fact that Rio made more than they did doesn't negate the fact that they were floor spreader. Mario also shot more 3's (249) in last year than John did in 3 years (236). But like I said different era's, however two of Mike's most referenced high lights are him passing to John Paxson for a championship clinching 3 v and him passing to Kerr for a chip clinching 3. #MjShrug
Buchler shot 44% from 3 his first year during the 2nd 3 peat, it dropped to 33%, then rose back up to 39%. Rio is shooting 41% this year, shot 39% last year, and 36% the year before that. So don't act like he's Reggie Miller or Ray Allen G. Sidenote, what CONTENDER is RIO playing on in which he's averaging 15-18ppg? He couldn't even do that when it was just him and Wade, you're reaching. And I'm a Rio fan, have been since seeing him in the Mickey's game.
Horace Grant's numbers don't tell the story... If you didn't watch him play there is nothing I can nor will try to tell you. As far as all star games: 90: Barkley, Kevin McHale, 91: Barkley & McHale 92: Barkley, Rodman, Kevin Willis (averaged 18 & 15 that year) you see the trend there?
Cartwright, Perdue, & Longley are better than any big man that LeBron has EVER had down in Mia. Joel Anthony? Eddy Curry? Dexter Pittman? Yeah Alright
Furthermore you made my point for me, they were playing against REAL CENTER'S like Ewing & Shaq in his heyday and doing a serviceable job. Who are the Heat's bigs playing against that could hold a candle in the sun to those players? And yet their bigs don't even play but you're using them as a means of support for LBJ having a better supporting cast. The Crazy Thing Is... I DIDN'T EVEN MENTION TONI KUKOC'S ONCE
Bottom line: Mike's Bulls Teams Were Way Better Than LeBron's Heat Team.
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@ at Scottie Pippen not being a top 3 SF of all time
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Ehh I already think Bird and Lebron are better than him and a very strong case and be built for Dr. J.
Actually the more I think about ain't no way in hell Scottie Pippen a greater player than Dr. J, Lebron or Larry Bird.
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Actually the more I think about ain't no way in hell Scottie Pippen a greater player than Dr. J
Really? I'd like to hear your rationale for this thought process.
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Actually the more I think about ain't no way in hell Scottie Pippen a greater player than Dr. J
Really? I'd like to hear your rationale for this thought process.
Unless you subscribe to the whole player of one era better than players of another era mindset I don't see how its even a comparison.
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Actually the more I think about ain't no way in hell Scottie Pippen a greater player than Dr. J
Really? I'd like to hear your rationale for this thought process.
Unless you subscribe to the whole player of one era better than players of another era mindset I don't see how its even a comparison.
Present your case.
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Actually the more I think about ain't no way in hell Scottie Pippen a greater player than Dr. J
Really? I'd like to hear your rationale for this thought process.
Unless you subscribe to the whole player of one era better than players of another era mindset I don't see how its even a comparison.
Present your case.
I'm not presenting a case because it isn't the topic of discussion and to be honest I'm not in the mood for arguing.
I'm not old enough to have watched Dr. J's prime however when you take accomplishments and production in account like I said I don't see how its even a comparison.
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So LeBrons career in the NBA will end up a disappointment?
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Well considering that Larry & Magic named Scottie as a top 3 SF of all time I'm going to go ahead and take their opinion as to where he ranks over yours. Big Game James as great as he was, played with Magic his entire career who is the greatest PG ever who made EVERYONE LOOK GOOD, we never got a chance to see him on his own. Meanwhile Scottie took the same team minus Mike to a phantom bull **** foul away from a 4th straight finals appearance while finishing 2nd in MVP voiting. You named a lot of scorers, outside of Larry & James none of them were known to play any defense. Scottie was more versatile/complete player than every single SF you listed. He guarded 1-5, he played positions 1-4 (which none of those other players did) he shot the long ball, had the midrange, played in the post, ran the offense, distributed the ball, and guarded the opposing teams best player while getting you 22, 8, & 5.
Yeah... I'm not even going to entertain the Craig Hodges remarks.
As far as the Paxson/Bj to Mario 3 point comparison. The game was very different the 3 point shot wasn't used as frequently as it is today. The fact that Rio made more than they did doesn't negate the fact that they were floor spreader. Mario also shot more 3's (249) in last year than John did in 3 years (236). But like I said different era's, however two of Mike's most referenced high lights are him passing to John Paxson for a championship clinching 3 v and him passing to Kerr for a chip clinching 3. #MjShrug
Buchler shot 44% from 3 his first year during the 2nd 3 peat, it dropped to 33%, then rose back up to 39%. Rio is shooting 41% this year, shot 39% last year, and 36% the year before that. So don't act like he's Reggie Miller or Ray Allen G. Sidenote, what CONTENDER is RIO playing on in which he's averaging 15-18ppg? He couldn't even do that when it was just him and Wade, you're reaching. And I'm a Rio fan, have been since seeing him in the Mickey's game.
Horace Grant's numbers don't tell the story... If you didn't watch him play there is nothing I can nor will try to tell you. As far as all star games: 90: Barkley, Kevin McHale, 91: Barkley & McHale 92: Barkley, Rodman, Kevin Willis (averaged 18 & 15 that year) you see the trend there?
Cartwright, Perdue, & Longley are better than any big man that LeBron has EVER had down in Mia. Joel Anthony? Eddy Curry? Dexter Pittman? Yeah Alright
The Crazy Thing Is... I DIDN'T EVEN MENTION TONI KUKOC'S ONCE
Bottom line: Mike's Bulls Teams Were Way Better Than LeBron's Heat Team.
So Larry and Magics word is the gospel now?
Im going off facts not opinions.
All the guys I mentioned have better individual accomplishments than Pippen. Also by the way Pippen finished 3rd in the MVP voting. You also forgot the Bulls added Kukoc that season. The Bulls had the 7th best record in the NBA, 3rd in the East and lost in the 2nd round.
Please stop with this revisionist history
Heres Pippen accomplishments
7-time NBA All-Star
10-time NBA All-Defensive Team selection
7-time All-NBA selection
Hondo
NBA Finals MVP
NBA All-Rookie Team
11-time All-NBA selection
8-time NBA All-Defensive Team selection( and they didn't have All Defensive teams for the 1st six years of his career)
13-time NBA All-Star
Dr. J
16-time NBA/ABA All-Star
4-time NBA/ABA MVP
12-time All-NBA/ABA selection
16 time All Star selection
ABA All-Rookie Team
1 ABA All-Defensive Team selection
5th all-time in points in NBA/ABA history
3 scoring titles
Elgin Baylor
4th all-time in points per game in NBA history
11-time NBA All-Star
NBA Rookie of the Year
10-time All-NBA selection
Rick Barry
NBA Finals MVP
12-time NBA/ABA All-Star
10-time All-NBA/ABA selection
NBA Rookie of the Year
1 scoring title
Nique
9 time NBA All-Star
NBA All-Rookie Team
7-time All-NBA selection
1 scoring title
finished 2nd in the 1986 NBA MVP voting
11th on the NBA all time scoring list
Dr.J, Elgin, Barry, Nique all have as good or better accomplishments than Pippen did
I know you're gonna say but Pippen was verstatile
Scottie was very versatile I'll give you that but I can back it up with facts that Hondo was just as versatile as Pippen for his era. Plus Hondo was the 1st option for 4 championships.
But every team would rather have an alpha over a great versatile player. Its like saying I rather have Josh Smith over Melo because hes good at a little bit of everything and can play better defense than Melo.
Teams kill for a franchise player that can get their own shot not for jack of all trades.
And Pippen didn't guard the 5! Stop that!
Also I liked that you used the 22, 8 and 5 when he only did that one season.+You'll leave the Hodges remarks only because you know you cant defend him as crucial piece to the Bulls runs
The 3 point shot was used differently back then but that doesnt change the fact that Chalmers is better 3 point shooter than Paxson was and Chalmers gets you defense and athleticism.
Buechler was playing 8-10 minutes a game! Who cares what he was shooting vs Chalmers! Chalmers is a starter playing 27 minutes a game and giving you defense and athleticism. Now that I think about it Chalmers probably couldn't average 18 PPG but if he averaged 10 PPG his rookie year, its not a stretch say he could go to some lottery team and average 15 PPG. Ramon Sessions is averaging 14 PPG..... remember I never said a contender.
I remember Horace Grant and I've refreshed my memory watching classic NBA games. Grant was a good player but like I said hes not in Bosh's league. You mentioned the greats that made the All Star Game over him but you didn't mention that Detlef Schrempf, Larry Nance, Larry Johnson made teams over him. Also explain how Derrick Coleman got the starting nod over him in 1994? What about when Horace went to Orlando was losing All Star nods to the likes of Tyrone Hill,Juwan Howard and Christian Laettner?
The bigs argument is dependent on how you look at it
Back then there was probably 7 great centers( Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, Mourning, Mutumbo, Daughtery) and those guys are arguably better than any center playing in the league now( sorry D12...ok D12 is probably better than Mutumbo or Daughtery) So if you have stiffs playing center for you like the 1990s Bulls did, how many points/rebounds are you losing when you match up vs those 7 great centers? 15-20 pts and 5-8 rebounds....thats a big difference.
But in Lebrons Heat era, It doesn't matter that Joel is a stiff .How many dominant bigs are there? D12...Maybe Bynum last year? The Heat only gotta play those players like 6 times a year. In MJ's era, you had to play those dominant centers 25-30 times a season not including the playoffs. And to be fair Bosh has basically been playing center since last season with Haslem playing the 4.
Toni Kukoc was a problem, he helped push 2nd 3 peat Bulls become of the best teams of all time but he wasn't there for all 6 titles, You're acting like all these guys were on one team!
Yes! The 1996 Bulls are one of the best teams of all time hence the 72-10 record but don't act like MJ had that the whole time!
Lebron has way more help on his current Heat teams than Jordan did on the 1st 3 peat
Lebrons supporting cast
Wade
Bosh
Chalmers
Ray Allen
Haslem
Battier
Cole
Lewis
29 All Star appearances
11 All NBA team selections
6 All Rookie team selections
5 NBA All Defensive team selections
1 Rookie of the year
1 NBA 6th man of the year award
1 NBA Finals MVP
1 scoring title
NBA all time 3 pt king
vs
Jordan 1st 3 peat supporting cast
Pippen
Grant
Cartwright
BJ
Paxson
King
Hodges
Perdue
10 All Star selections
14 All Defensive team selections
7 All NBA team selections
2 All Rookie team selection
Lebron has better supporting cast than MJ did during the first 3 peat.
Now those are statements backed up by facts not just opinions
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i usually entertain hypothetical scenarios. but as homie above said.... THIS THREAD IS TERRIBLE!
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Its not a comparsion at all. MJ made Scottie pure and simple. These Pippen Stans can never defend how Scottie turned into trash when MJ left. Pippen couldnt even make a damn All Star team.
OJ Mayo signed that contract because he lost his value in Memphis and he figured Dallas was a great opportunity to regain his value.
Theres a couple other guys that are great values...JR Smith and Carlos Delfino
But are the Heat always gonna get those guys over other teams?
Miami is committed to seven players in 2014-15 at a total cost of $78.4 million. LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh are scheduled to paid $61.4 million altogether that season.
Thats if none of them opt out to get a raise and thats a big if because that will be Wade and Bosh last big contract.
The Heat current role players like Ray Allen, Shane Battier, Mario Chalmers, James Jones and Rashard Lewis, combined make $14.9 million this season.
Let's say that Miami, in 2014-15, will add $14.9 million in cost-efficient role players to the seven men already contracted for that season. (The Heat may have to pay more than $14.9 million for similar complementary talent two seasons from now, but let's stick with that conservative figure for the sake of argument.) If their ambitions remain high and they're able to keep costs as low as possible, then the Heat will be responsible for a payroll totaling $93.3 million -- and that's before the brutal impact of the repeater tax kicks in.
At the conclusion of 2014-15, the repeater tax will make its dreaded debut by punishing teams that have paid a luxury tax for four consecutive seasons. Miami is on a path to be hit with an enormous penalty in the summer of 2015.
As a repeat taxpayer, the Heat will be facing the highest incremental tax rates in NBA history. If, for example, the luxury-tax threshold is established at $75 million -- a highly optimistic gain of roughly $5 million from this season -- the Heat will be faced with a tax bill approaching $48 million. In total, they would be paying $141.3 million for 12 players.
So you're telling me the Heat are gonna pay that type of luxury tax when don't have huge revenue like the Lakers or Knicks?
So either they can keep Lebron, Wade and Bosh and have absolute stiffs surrounding them or they can trade Wade or Bosh away. They probably make the dumb sentimental move and keep Wade over Bosh( Although Bosh's game translates well into his 30s) because he's the Miami hero, the guy who made it all happen.
Either way I'm not in love with their chances
And what 2 teams could challenge them in 2015. Just off the top of my head....I'd go with the Thunder or Clippers. 2 teams that have their superstar players in it for the up long term and have cap room to get complementary help.( Although CP3 is a free agent this summer hes not leaving)
The Thunder, they are committed to 58 million in 2015 and they could move or amnesty Perkins to save close to 10 million
The Clippers will be committed to 50 million when Chris Paul does his extension
Also theres teams like the Rockets or Bulls that could make a move here or there and be in contention.
The Rockets are only committed to 30 million in 2015.
The Bulls are committed to 55 million in 2015 but they could amnesty Boozer and gain alot cap room
Theres some free agents( Dwight Howard,Josh Smith,West, Millsap Jefferson, Bynum) this summer who could turn some teams into contenders too.
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This thread is horrendous but I will say no matter if you like or hate lbj the biggest disapponitment was taking his talents to south beach I mean the cavs weren't that bad and he should have stayed in his hometown and more people would have found that more humble then honestly ring jumping w Bosh and wade..I'm no lebron Stan by any means but I lost all respect for the guy once he had to SWITCH teams to win a ring..even as a knicks fan, him being on the heat ( I'm not hating by any means) shows that he had to leave to become ring hungry that's one thing jordan did better than lebron was work w the pieces he had it took jordan till 91 to win a ring and even then he didn't have the greatest team aside from pippen, I think lebron goes back to the cavs in 2014 he would still tarnish his legacy cuz of "the decision"
antidope
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Rename the thread to the Scottie Pippen thread please. I like where this is going
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This year really has been tough for you guys lol
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Saying MJ's firsf threepeat championship teams are more stacked than this current heat team is laaaaaaughable and only said to.prop up lebron
2nd threepeat fair game
Butthe first? **** noooooo way
2nd threepeat fair game
Butthe first? **** noooooo way
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Am I reading this right? Disappointment?
Dude is 28 and he's about to win his 4th MVP. When he's done he'll probably have 4-5 rings and 5-6 MVPs. Hell he has a good chance to become the all time scoring leader one day and top 10 in assists all time. I think when it's all said and done he'll be considered the 2nd best ever (top 5 at minimum).
What more do you want man?
Dude is 28 and he's about to win his 4th MVP. When he's done he'll probably have 4-5 rings and 5-6 MVPs. Hell he has a good chance to become the all time scoring leader one day and top 10 in assists all time. I think when it's all said and done he'll be considered the 2nd best ever (top 5 at minimum).
What more do you want man?
jumpmanfromdabay
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mjgreatxii
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Whats the problem here?OP is a Kobe Stan and wanted to respond to the Kobe is overrated thread
It should work both ways.
But god forbid anybody say anything about lebron f'n james.
Yet the kobe slander is out of this world.
I See no problem with thread.
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If you actually read what I typed and not just see the title and then free post, you' might understand what I saying.
