No Crossover: The Trial of Allen Iverson ESPN 30 for 30-- April 13th

GREAT documentary.  Definitely the best of the 30 For 30 joints that I've seen, probably followed by Without Bias and then The U.
Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

someone please explain the judiciary purpose of that sentence 15 years, suspend 10 years of it, leaving a 5 year sentence and allowing the possiblity for early release for good behavior after 10months????
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I was a Criminal Justice minor in undergrad and I couldn't tell you...
Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

I love this doc....my only gripe is that I wished that there was some sort of commentary from John Thompson.
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Yup.
Originally Posted by EzFlash26

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Doc finished up very strong. Reminded what Iverson meant at one of point of time. Those memories seem to have faded quick, but no athlete connected with black america to that extent since.

To this day I salute A.I for not "wearing the mask" that so many black athletes did in path that Jordan's image redefined...
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He definitely stayed true to himself, THAT'S why he was (and still is really) so beloved by so many black folks in the hood in a way that other athletes who maybe didn't come from those circumstances or who "wore the mask" never could be.  The media and lots of white folks can't seem to grasp that...
Originally Posted by EzFlash26

Originally Posted by 0cks

Much respect to Steve James and his family though. They seem get "it"
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I always salute those (white people) who do.
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Most definitely.
 
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Coach was his title. and he went out on limbs for many socio economic battles that other people ( Legislators and such included ) wouldnt step out on.

he stood up on issues when others didnt, esp others in the same profession who just let the system use the players.

he didnt lower SAT standards...
 
Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

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Coach was his title. and he went out on limbs for many socio economic battles that other people ( Legislators and such included ) wouldnt step out on.

he stood up on issues when others didnt, esp others in the same profession who just let the system use the players.

he didnt lower SAT standards...
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No, he was just the most vocal out of coaches for it, walking out of a game famously.  I believe he did that for genuine reasons as he did most of the social stuff.  I'm just saying I don't think he really made these kids into some sort of men or people they weren't before.  And it wasn't like the black community all stood behind him on that cause, Arthur Ashe famously was against it.

I think he has kind of pimped the system a little bit John Thompson.  Any coach at the elite level does.  Did he really help improve these kids lies?  Did these kids need to be in a college like Georgetown, when they shouldn't have been their in the first place since they were their to play basketball.

It all goes back to my feelings about high level coolege sports.  I love them but they shouldn't exist.  Academic institutions should be just that.  Europe seems to get that when it comes to soccer, same with baseball in America.  But with basketball and football there is too much mney there for many of these schools to abandon it.  But that's my issue when a school acts like a buissness, it ends up with these kids getting chewed up and spit out by a system without getting anything out of it for themselves.  Once again I think John Thompson isn't a bad guy, it is just my general problem with the world of elite college coaching.  I'm sure you know far more about it than I do Gunna.
 
John Thompson was more than a coach. He gave these kids chances that they may not have ever gotten. There was a lot of uproar on whether or not these kids Thompson recruited even belonged at G-Town, but if you're going to play under JT, you're going to have your behind in class and NOT make a fool out of him for taking a chance on you. Not only that, but you'll never hear of a player under John Thompson's watch screwing up in the classroom.  Even Iverson had a "B" average during his tenure at the school. 

I don't have a lot of time to type on this, but John Thompson is arguably the most respected man to ever grace Washington D.C. His reach goes much futher than what you saw on the basketball court. He TRULY cared about his players. He didn't let negative influences from the outside deter what these kids were trying to accomplish within the walls of the university (see Rayful Edmunds/Zo). To say he was "just a coach" is totally false and misinformed. I'm sorry, but I can't roll w. that at all.
 
Since it was about the high school event I can see why jt wasn't it. His impact on ai happened in college and after. Would have been good to hear from him tho
 
Originally Posted by Durden7

Originally Posted by bittersweet

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@ the White reporter mentioning those "offensive" White names.

I literally yelled to the TV "Shut up _."

Sorry.
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Why?
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Maybe because those words he spewed out have no history behind them... You can't compare it to a word used to degrate and mentally cage an entire race for generations, its a direct link to the enslavement, exploitation, and complete disregard that their ancestors held for our ancestors. Not to say they aren't racial slurs because they are, yet their still relatively young they came about in the 60's when blacks started to stand up for themselves, and pretty much died out a few decades later.  Meanwhile THAT word will never go anywhere, it will forever serve as a stain and reminder of the hate that they displayed and are capable of.  I'll put it like this... I'm 27 and I don't know a black person who hasn't been called a _ _ _ _ _ _ by a white person, and I know some pretty distinguished members of the black community.
 
Originally Posted by Durden7

Originally Posted by bittersweet

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@ the White reporter mentioning those "offensive" White names.

I literally yelled to the TV "Shut up _."

Sorry.
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Why?
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b/c he was comparing mad terms to the N word ... i understand what he was trying to do but it came across pretty stupid when he started throwing out terms like low-jumping no ball playing or whateva he was trying to come up with ... he def. got a
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from me followed by a couple of laughs ...

sticks and stones ... %%$%* ... you call me the N word ... yes you're gonna get beat ... /story
 
So the thing that stuck out to me. Througout this whole thing. Was that.....Those coaches/mentor's raised AI more than his own mother did. And it wasn't because she was working 0884754 hours a day and didn't have the time. It was because she CHOSE not too. She'd rather be running the streets. She was his meal tickets He was her meal ticket. Where would that family be if A.I. wasn't blessed w/ basketball talent? I mean, you can say that about a lot of kids from that type of area, who make it out via athletics, but how many of them have parents who weren't busting their !$* to make ends meet, as hard as the kids were on the court? @!#@ disgusted me. Boy had to raise himself, and his sisters, since he was 8/9. And he was the 'Savior' of the hood. Which is why now, he's in the spot that he's in because he felt he had to take care of EVERYBODY, but everybody wouldn't extend that same gesture to him.
 
I've read plenty of AI books. In one of them he basically insinuated that he used to cop work for his mom so she wouldn't have to hook for it.
 
Originally Posted by dreClark

So the thing that stuck out to me. Througout this whole thing. Was that.....Those coaches/mentor's raised AI more than his own mother did. And it wasn't because she was working 0884754 hours a day and didn't have the time. It was because she CHOSE not too. She'd rather be running the streets. She was his meal tickets He was her meal ticket. Where would that family be if A.I. wasn't blessed w/ basketball talent? I mean, you can say that about a lot of kids from that type of area, who make it out via athletics, but how many of them have parents who weren't busting their !$* to make ends meet, as hard as the kids were on the court? @!#@ disgusted me. Boy had to raise himself, and his sisters, since he was 8/9. And he was the 'Savior' of the hood. Which is why now, he's in the spot that he's in because he felt he had to take care of EVERYBODY, but everybody wouldn't extend that same gesture to him.
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Agreed...but for a 15 year old girl to raise a kid herself when she clearly has a *+%%%%@+ of other problems and a lack of supervision herself...It's a cycle in-itself.
 
Originally Posted by dreClark

So the thing that stuck out to me. Througout this whole thing. Was that.....Those coaches/mentor's raised AI more than his own mother did. And it wasn't because she was working 0884754 hours a day and didn't have the time. It was because she CHOSE not too. She'd rather be running the streets. She was his meal tickets He was her meal ticket. Where would that family be if A.I. wasn't blessed w/ basketball talent? I mean, you can say that about a lot of kids from that type of area, who make it out via athletics, but how many of them have parents who weren't busting their !$* to make ends meet, as hard as the kids were on the court? @!#@ disgusted me. Boy had to raise himself, and his sisters, since he was 8/9. And he was the 'Savior' of the hood. Which is why now, he's in the spot that he's in because he felt he had to take care of EVERYBODY, but everybody wouldn't extend that same gesture to him.
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well put, Dre and I agree....that %$%% infuriated me last night.  She didn't give a crap about anything but herself until she knew how good her son was at basketball.  That's what happens when kids have kids....AI had a lot on his shoulders from the time he was a little boy.  And now people have the nerve to call him out and question why he isn't doing more when the man is sitting up on stage CRYING during a low-key presser for his scholarship fund he created.  I mean %$%%....how much more can he do and extend himself?  At some point you gotta do something for yourself instead of trying to rely on Iverson to give hand outs....

The other thing that was sad but funny was how the tourist brochure was spun to not say that the African were brought over to the Hampton Roads area as slaves...rather they were African men and women who came over to the US looking for jobs
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Even though this was an Iverson documentary...(and as I've said before) there were many other DEEPER layers to the story than just AI himself.  You got a real look at some of the racial inequalities that plagued (and still do) many communities right under your noses.  You got an impromptu history lesson of how things are spun to hide the truth (brochure)...and it goes on and on. 

Out of all of the 30 for 30's this was my favorite....

*I can't be the only one who was cheesin' when Iverson got his diploma.  I really felt happy for the guy.  The smile he had on that day was priceless.  You could tell how much that meant to him. 

  
 
Seymore CAKE wrote:
Durden7 wrote:
Originally Posted by bittersweet

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@ the White reporter mentioning those "offensive" White names.

I literally yelled to the TV "Shut up _."

Sorry.
Click to expand...

Why?




Maybe because those words he spewed out have no history behind them... You can't compare it to a word used to degrate and mentally cage an entire race for generations, its a direct link to the enslavement, exploitation, and complete disregard that their ancestors held for our ancestors. Not to say they aren't racial slurs because they are, yet their still relatively young they came about in the 60's when blacks started to stand up for themselves, and pretty much died out a few decades later.  Meanwhile THAT word will never go anywhere, it will forever serve as a stain and reminder of the hate that they displayed and are capable of.  I'll put it like this... I'm 27 and I don't know a black person who hasn't been called a _ _ _ _ _ _ by a white person, and I know some pretty distinguished members of the black community.


I understand what youre saying and I have a different viewpoint on the word/phrases he used but because this isnt the thread for it I wont start a discussion about it.

Basically I didnt see a problem with what he wrote in the article or the idea he was trying to portray.  I thought the comparison was legitimate.

Maybe because im white and I dont have a strong negative connotation to the N word that I found the comparison to be acceptable.  I dont know.


b/c he was comparing mad terms to the N word ... i understand what he was trying to do but it came across pretty stupid when he started throwing out terms like low-jumping no ball playing or whateva he was trying to come up with ... he def. got a
indifferent.gif
from me followed by a couple of laughs ...

sticks and stones ... %%$%* ... you call me the N word ... yes you're gonna get beat ... /story
Again, not trying to start a debate but I dont think the words he chose were "mad" terms. 
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Originally Posted by Im Not You

I've read plenty of AI books. In one of them he basically insinuated that he used to cop work for his mom so she wouldn't have to hook for it.
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Yep.
 
had to stop about halfway thru the doc because I was too damn tired to keep my eyes open...

Just some take home points...
- AI's lawyer either thought it wasn't going to be a long sentence (6 months on community service=light work) or he had NO IDEA what he got in to.
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15 %%%%%#! yrs SERIOUSLY?!
- AI had incredible gifts, but I wish someone was there to be hard on him and demand something from him and correct his faults while he was still young, can you imagine a focused, team oriented AI?
 
Originally Posted by cleansneaksonly21

- AI's lawyer either thought it wasn't going to be a long sentence (6 months on community service=light work) or he had NO IDEA what he got in to.
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15 %%%%%#! yrs SERIOUSLY?!
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Dude thought he could get by on his name and standing in Va. Plus, as it was alluded to in the doc, he wasn't even a criminal lawyer @ that time. He was a big wig @ his firm. Hardly ever in the courtroom.
 
Originally Posted by dreClark

Originally Posted by cleansneaksonly21

- AI's lawyer either thought it wasn't going to be a long sentence (6 months on community service=light work) or he had NO IDEA what he got in to.
smh.gif
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15 %%%%%#! yrs SERIOUSLY?!
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Dude thought he could get by on his name and standing in Va. Plus, as it was alluded to in the doc, he wasn't even a criminal lawyer @ that time. He was a big wig @ his firm. Hardly ever in the courtroom.
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EXACTLY!!!! Me and my lady were both LIVID about that.  There is no way in hell as a lawyer you say no to a jury and allow a white judge to determine a a young black man accused of a racial crime, given the huge amount of racial tension on both side knowing the racial implications that it will have regardless of the verdict. 

The fact that his mother didn't raise holy hell and fire his attorney/request a new trial due to the fact that he didn't have Allen's best interest at heart is beyond me and is what really pissed me off.
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I never knew about him copping her work so she wouldn't be a runna though... boy was forced to grow up way toooo soon 
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Originally Posted by bittersweet

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smh.gif
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@ the White reporter mentioning those "offensive" White names.

I literally yelled to the TV "Shut up _."

Sorry.
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man .. i yelled at the TV too.. im glad i wasnt the only one. i thought i was trippin cause i was like why am i yelling at the tv? but some parts had me heated

  
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