OBESITY IS A DISEASE, doctor's group says (article)

[lordofcastamere]

The Whole Foods example is a textbook hyperbole.

If it makes you feel any better replace Whole Foods with any other supermarket, but it doesn't change the facts. Obesity is a problem of the poor. At least in developed countries.

 

[nom de guerre]

There is scientific literature supporting the idea that sugar and other chemicals in modern foods are addictive (even moreso than drugs like cocaine in some cases). There are professionals that design food products for maximum palatability and marketers that try to get you to try it just once for cheap (and get you hooked). After you eat this sort of fake foods for any amount of time, real food tastes bland and unappealing. You have various groups pushing their own agenda (sugar vs HFCS, whole grain vs processed, fruit juice vs soda, etc.) to distract you from the real problems.

All of this

 

[ninjallamafromhell]

Don't practice self discipline just take these meds and shove them down your throats. That'll be $800.
Don't try exercise and diet, try therapy. That'll be $1000.
I feel bad for the people that fall for this ****.
I feel equally bad for people that have a legit illness and get judged every day.

 

[Comparison Ford]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfCastamere  

The Whole Foods example is a textbook hyperbole.

If it makes you feel any better replace Whole Foods with any other supermarket, but it doesn't change the facts. Obesity is a problem of the poor. At least in developed countries.

Fast food is obviously easier, it's really not cheaper though.  A meal at McDonalds costs anywhere from 7 to 10 bucks.  You can cook a nutritious meal at home for around 2-3 dollars per person.

 

[PatRiley]

Unfortunately the price of "good" food these days are out of the question for a strong majority of Americans. By good food I mean healthy fruits, vegetables, and protein sources that were grown and raised naturally.

There are a lot of people out there that are fighting to change this, but the government and big agriculture companies make for a very tough competitor.

Educate yourself on the issues. Learn about naturally grown food and try your best to incorporate as much plant matter in your diets.

Start by not going out to eat and shop for your own food. Use raw ingredients and make multiple servings for leftovers to eat the next day to save you time and $. "I don't know how to cook" is not a valid excuse.

 

[timbo109]

I didn't post any hyperboles, I posted a well-known fact. Obesity is associated with lower economic status, I gave a scenario with possible contributing factors.


Since people keep ignoring it, I'll mention is a third time. This ISN'T news, obesity has been considered a billable illness by doctors for a while. Which raises the question, why did they feel the need to announce it.

Did you not read my post, guy?
I stated that I agree with you that socio-economics do play a part in obesity. I was objecting to you using hyperbolic arguments such as the Whole Foods argument to argue your case. You're just setting yourself to be picked apart by the (valid) argument that people of lower economic status shouldn't shop at up-scale food retailers such as Whole Foods, but rather can buy relatively nutritious food, at least in terms of macro-nutrients (and probably most micro-nutrients), at a normal grocery store and even at cheaper alternatives in terms of stores.
I agree with most of your arguments; however, you aren't supporting them as well as you could be, and you neglected to fully read my post.


As for why they decide to announce now, I don't know. Can you explain why the timing is really relevant, though?

 

[lordofcastamere]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfCastamere  


If it makes you feel any better replace Whole Foods with any other supermarket, but it doesn't change the facts. Obesity is a problem of the poor. At least in developed countries.

Fast food is obviously easier, it's really not cheaper though.  A meal at McDonalds costs anywhere from 7 to 10 bucks.  You can cook a nutritious meal at home for around 2-3 dollars per person.

Yep, that was my point is "easier", more accessible for certain people who don't have the time to prepare healthy meals daily. Or people who simply don't have access to grocery stores in inner cities.

 

[lordofcastamere]

Did you not read my post, guy?
I stated that I agree with you that socio-economics do play a part in obesity. I was objecting to you using hyperbolic arguments such as the Whole Foods argument to argue your case. You're just setting yourself to be picked apart by the (valid) argument that people of lower economic status shouldn't shop at up-scale food retailers such as Whole Foods, but rather can buy relatively nutritious food, at least in terms of macro-nutrients (and probably most micro-nutrients), at a normal grocery store and even at cheaper alternatives in terms of stores.
I agree with most of your arguments; however, you aren't supporting them as well as you could be, and you neglected to fully read my post.


As for why they decide to announce now, I don't know. Can you explain why the timing is really relevant, though?

I posted the whole foods as an exaggeration on purpose guy.

I was making a very simple argument, obesity is associated with poverty and I posted POSSIBLE some contributing factors. You chose to dwell on the whole foods instead of the overall scenario I posted. Does that scenario fully account for why poor people are fat? No, but it does offer some insight.

 

[lordofcastamere]

At first I wanted to SMH, but I am a helpless optimist. Hopefully this will help spark changes in policies that will help people. Things like subsidized gym membership partially covered by your medical insurance. Increase frequency of visits allowed per year to a dietitian, or a nutritionist. No prior authorization needed, and no referral from your PCP needed to see a dietitian or a nutritionist.

But this also means that being fat can be considered a pre-existing condition. So obese people may find it difficult to find coverage when they are shopping for health insurance. They may be flat out denied, or get charged a higher amount (just like smokers now).

And now people are just going to get really fat and collect disability.

Some insurance companies ask for your BMI if you want to get certain rates for coverage. I'm in the process of trying to lower my premium and on the form it lists BMI as one of the components of the physical along with labs related to obesity like a lipid panel. Now even if obesity wasn't a pre-existing condition, high cholesterol, high blood sugar and high blood pressure (all associated with obesity) may create some roadblocks to getting affordable insurance.

 

[suberzat1]

im in the ending weeks on this research project im doing on campus to help people with obesity. Not to get into depth with what im doing but we are pretty much making a shake to replace meals (i know already been done). Its crazy the amount of people that overweight in the country (still blows my mind). I feel like i can only do so much to help people that dont want to be help. Really need to talk to with my college about setting up some presentations around the country for me. Got to get my name out more yea feel me.

I dont know how many people this will help having obesity considered a disease now. The government been pushing healthy choices for about 4-5 years now its u either want to change your lifestyle or you dont.

 

[timbo109]

If it makes you feel any better replace Whole Foods with any other supermarket, but it doesn't change the facts. Obesity is a problem of the poor. At least in developed countries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordOfCastamere /img/forum/go_quote.gif





If it makes you feel any better replace Whole Foods with any other supermarket, but it doesn't change the facts. Obesity is a problem of the poor. At least in developed countries.



Fast food is obviously easier, it's really not cheaper though.  A meal at McDonalds costs anywhere from 7 to 10 bucks.  You can cook a nutritious meal at home for around 2-3 dollars per person.

I agree completely that groups of lower economic status are at a greater risk of obesity, but I don't think it's solely an issue for the poor. Furthermore, I don't think the issue boils down simply to healthy foods being "too expensive." Affordable, relatively healthy meals (or at the very least foods that are not overly caloric-dense) can be obtained from supermarkets for the fraction of the price of fast food restaurants. It's not price that's the issue for a lot of low income communities. Rather, geography and convenience are the mechanism for the correlation between obesity and lower economic status. Many poor neighborhoods don't actually have geographic access to supermarkets; they're only serviced by bodegas or fast food restaurants and residents don't have cars or don't have the time to drive to supermarkets and prepare food due to work obligations.
Another factor is education. I don't have any evidence on this, but I'd conjecture that nutrition education is much better in wealthy schools/households/neighborhoods than in those of lower socioeconomic status.
In short, I agree that socio-economics contributes to an extent to the prevalence of obesity; however, I don't think the mechanism is that it is simply unaffordable to eat properly.

Unfortunately the price of "good" food these days are out of the question for a strong majority of Americans. By good food I mean healthy fruits, vegetables, and protein sources that were grown and raised naturally.

There are a lot of people out there that are fighting to change this, but the government and big agriculture companies make for a very tough competitor.

Educate yourself on the issues. Learn about naturally grown food and try your best to incorporate as much plant matter in your diets.

Start by not going out to eat and shop for your own food. Use raw ingredients and make multiple servings for leftovers to eat the next day to save you time and $. "I don't know how to cook" is not a valid excuse.

I'm with you on a lot of this. Not sure about the veiled vegetarian agenda though. I think you do need to elaborate on the whole "grown and raised naturally" caveat, because this is kind of a slippery slope. Do you mean all veggies and fruits should be organic, all beef grass fed, all chicken - cage free, free range etc etc ?

I feel like I can easily afford to eat healthily, but I can't necessarily afford to purchase the top quality alternative for every thing I'm eating. That doesn't negate the fact that I'm eating more healthy than the vast majority of Americans.
Organic foods are great and I fully support them for those that can afford them; however, you can't feed the world on organic foods. However, organic foods and all natural foods are not necessary for combating obesity.
I'm with you that the current orientation of the government and big-ag isn't suited towards the holistic health of the population of the US and things need to change; however, I'm not convinced that the current system is so out of line that obesity for a large percentage of Americans is inevitable. Please correct me if I'm wrong in how I'm interpreting your post.

im in the ending weeks on this research project im doing on campus to help people with obesity. Not to get into depth with what im doing but we are pretty much making a shake to replace meals (i know already been done). Its crazy the amount of people that overweight in the country (still blows my mind). I feel like i can only do so much to help people that dont want to be help. Really need to talk to with my college about setting up some presentations around the country for me. Got to get my name out more yea feel me.

I dont know how many people this will help having obesity considered a disease now. The government been pushing healthy choices for about 4-5 years now its u either want to change your lifestyle or you dont.

I'm curious about the rationale for a meal replacement shake. I've noticed personally (and some tangential literature that I've read supports this) that liquid calories are far less satiating than calories from solid foods. Thus a meal replacement shake would only work for people with the utmost will power. I think you'd run into an issue where people would have the shake with the intention of doing the right thing, but wouldn't really feel satisfied from it. I'm curious to hear more about it though, especially if you think it's an idea worthy of spreading around the country.
On the "the government been pushing healthy choices for about 4-5 years" point: there's a considerable difference between what the government says is healthy and what is actually healthy. I took a cursory look at the USDA website and a lot of their recommendations barely hold water. Recognize that the AMA is a separate group of DRs independent of the government.

 

[lordofcastamere]

im in the ending weeks on this research project im doing on campus to help people with obesity. Not to get into depth with what im doing but we are pretty much making a shake to replace meals (i know already been done). Its crazy the amount of people that overweight in the country (still blows my mind). I feel like i can only do so much to help people that dont want to be help. Really need to talk to with my college about setting up some presentations around the country for me. Got to get my name out more yea feel me.

I dont know how many people this will help having obesity considered a disease now. The government been pushing healthy choices for about 4-5 years now its u either want to change your lifestyle or you dont.

Another possible reason as to why this is public now is that the govt has gotten tired of spending so much on obesity related medical problems. By putting more emphasis on prevention and "treatment" of obesity, it would save tax payers and the government a ton of money.

But like you said, its u either want to change your lifestyle or you don't. People spend millions of dollars in this country on various weight-loss method, from pills, to fad diets, to fad workouts. Like every other addiction, the best treatment is some kind of behavioral or motivational therapy along with the drugs/diet/exercise etc.

The problem of obesity also starts at a young age, public health officials are attempting to make kids a priority so their bad habits don't progress into adulthood. It is difficult to change habits when you're older.

 

[metsn13]

I'm really confused, how exactly is this news?

Obesity has been classified as an illness under physicians coding for a while.
[h1]2010 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis Code 278.00[/h1][h2]Obesity unspecified[/h2]

• excessively high accumulation of body fat or adipose tissue in relation to lean body mass; the amount of body fat (or adiposity) includes concern for both the distribution of fat throughout the body and the size of the adipose tissue deposits; individuals are usually at high clinical risk because of excess amount of body fat (BMI greater than 30).
• Having a high amount of body fat. A person is considered obese if they have a body mass index (BMI) of 30 or more.
• Short description: Obesity NOS.
• ICD-9-CM 278.00 is a billable medical code that can be used to specify a diagnosis on a reimbursement claim.
• You are viewing the 2010 version of ICD-9-CM 278.00.
• More recent version(s) of ICD-9-CM 278.00: 2011 2012 2013.

Correct!  I will tell you that as a resident and now attending physician, my sickest patients are obese.  I code morbid obesity as a diagnosis on my admission and discharge paperwork on the vast majority of my hospitalized patients.  Not only is it co-morbid with Hypertension, Coronary Artery Disease, Peripheral Vascular Disease, and most significantly Diabetes Mellitus, but the newest studies coming from oncology are now indicating a heightened risk for various cancers and malignancies.  I really think the institution of massive conglomerate food companies that mass produce for our local grocery stores (instead of the local farmer who has been almost completely wiped out) using synthetic growth techniques has contributed to our obesity epidemic.  And it is an epidemic, good luck finding a BMI under 25 in most of our adult population over 40 in the USA.  When you travel outside of the USA the differences are remarkable in population studies.  I have to believe some of this is a result of our highly industrialized food supply.   

 

[lordofcastamere]

Correct!  I will tell you that as a resident and now attending physician, my sickest patients are obese.  I code morbid obesity as a diagnosis on my admission and discharge paperwork on the vast majority of my hospitalized patients.  Not only is it co-morbid with Hypertension, Coronary Artery Disease, Peripheral Vascular Disease, and most significantly Diabetes Mellitus, but the newest studies coming from oncology are now indicating a heightened risk for various cancers and malignancies.  I really think the institution of massive conglomerate food companies that mass produce for our local grocery stores (instead of the local farmer who has been almost completely wiped out) using synthetic growth techniques has contributed to our obesity epidemic.  And it is an epidemic, good luck finding a BMI under 25 in most of our adult population over 40 in the USA.  When you travel outside of the USA the differences are remarkable in population studies.  I have to believe some of this is a result of our highly industrialized food supply.   

Not to mention the extremely high demand for knee and hip replacements in this country.

 

[al audi]

Too expensive to eat healthy is BS.

 

[pack man]

This thread appeared right above the "Watermelon Oreos" thread... Outstanding.

*googles watermelon oreo*

 

[bjamez20]

at comparing a food addiction to a drug addiction. there's a major difference that you're overlooking - everyone eats food, and i'm sure damn near everyone has eaten fast food at some point or another. yes there are chemicals in a lot of food that have studies showing they're addictive. yet there are plenty of people who can control themselves around food.

 

[D Fly]

Former fat *** checking in,

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

View media item 43498 325
View media item 194061 ~182ish

Not a disease

On the real this motivated me more. Already cut out soda and sweets.

Gonna go ham now. Trying to get down to at least 225.

Props to you sir.

 

[suberzat1]

Another possible reason as to why this is public now is that the govt has gotten tired of spending so much on obesity related medical problems. By putting more emphasis on prevention and "treatment" of obesity, it would save tax payers and the government a ton of money.

But like you said, its u either want to change your lifestyle or you don't. People spend millions of dollars in this country on various weight-loss method, from pills, to fad diets, to fad workouts. Like every other addiction, the best treatment is some kind of behavioral or motivational therapy along with the drugs/diet/exercise etc.

The problem of obesity also starts at a young age, public health officials are attempting to make kids a priority so their bad habits don't progress into adulthood. It is difficult to change habits when you're older.

It does start with the kids. i remember reading an article where this mom made some favor water because her kids wouldnt drink water. She pretty much made it cool to drink water among the kids in her community by giving it a catchy name. I was talking to the dean of food science last year about how can we get kids to go into a local store and pick up carrots instead of a bag of cheetos. Its hard because its all about what in the reach as far as food the kids eat while they are home. I can keep going on and on but this is good documentary (it may still be on netflix)

I'm curious about the rationale for a meal replacement shake. I've noticed personally (and some tangential literature that I've read supports this) that liquid calories are far less satiating than calories from solid foods. Thus a meal replacement shake would only work for people with the utmost will power. I think you'd run into an issue where people would have the shake with the intention of doing the right thing, but wouldn't really feel satisfied from it. I'm curious to hear more about it though, especially if you think it's an idea worthy of spreading around the country.
On the "the government been pushing healthy choices for about 4-5 years" point: there's a considerable difference between what the government says is healthy and what is actually healthy. I took a cursory look at the USDA website and a lot of their recommendations barely hold water. Recognize that the AMA is a separate group of DRs independent of the government.

yea man its crazy because we asking the patients to take just one shake a day to replace their breakfast in the morning and most of them choose not to keep on track with the program. The ones that stick to the plan are showing results(cant say how much weight has been lost but i can say its progress). If i decided to go into the lab tomorrow i can give better results. Also we are holding informational classes once a week about making healthy choices and to understand the food that they are eating. Its only the beginning maybe 20-25 we are testing.

 

[nealraj006]

I'm curious as to why so many of you are skeptical regarding this decision. The whole pharmaceutical companies intertwined with the medical industry as a machine oriented towards profit issue is real and is definitely something to consider, but I don't think that that should negate the potential that decisions such as this - decisions/statements that treat obesity as a more serious issue than it's currently being treated as - have for leading to a necessary paradigm shift.

My hope is that this decisions, accompanied by increased research and increased attention on obesity, results in an epidemiological approach to the issue, focused on increased consumer education, as well as improved access to nutritious foods, especially in low income neighborhoods.

There's plenty that the private and public sectors can do to fight obesity. Ultimately, it's up to the individual consumer, but there are many ways that larger powers can "stack the deck" against obesity.

I don't believe that research is the answer. It may help, but only to people who know how to read scientific research. Most of the general public does not know how to read scientific research, but are the ones who would benefit the most from the findings. It is up to health care practitioners to stay recent with the research, interpret it logically, and apply it responsibly with patients. The sad truth is that most don't stay recent on the literature surrounding nutrition.

Attention to the issue doesn't matter, it's just another excuse for "Paralysis by Analysis". The tools are available for people to reach an optimal body composition, but many people don't want to use them (due to food addiction or other problems) or don't know about them. Proper health education, change of marketing and distribution, pricing of junk vs real food, exercise recommendations by health care practitioners, etc. all need to happen. The issues are on a much larger scale than attention (IMO), and as a I said before, a paradigm shift needs to occur. Until the general population (consumers) changes their mind and demands this from large corporations, there won't be any change. The issue is that most people don't want it bad enough, they only want it when it's convenient.

 

[jhova718]

How can anyone argue to the contrary?

I am fat because I'm lazy. It is something that I'm dealing with but let's be honest if my life depended on it I'd drop 20-30 pounds like nothing. I'm complacent and have an arsenal of excuses handy.

Ftr I'm 5'11 and 230. Looking to get down to 190 and go from there. I used to weigh 245..

 

[suberzat1]

^ keep up the good work

 

[ricky409]

**** is ******g ridiculous


oh, so being fat makes you fat and is bad for your heart? glad they did a study to find that out...
.

i laughed out loud. literally.

i remember this fat white dude said he gets just as much discrimination as me ( a black man) ) because he's fat and has tattoos.

View media item 222777

 

[trelvis tha thrilla]

Former fatty checking in. Went from 230 to 170.

 

[ruxxx]

i laughed out loud. literally.

i remember this fat white dude said he gets just as much discrimination as me ( a black man) ) because he's fat and has tattoos.

View media item 222777