Official 2013 NFL Washington Diplomats SEASON Thread - Last Game 12/29 @ 1:00 PM vs. Giants

[Methodical Management]

I understand that some of you are upset about this.  I was upset when I learned that the Bullets name would be changing, but I grew up and came to embrace that change.  

As I wrote in a thread on this same topic last year,

I used to go to Bullets games as a kid.  Yes, I have plenty of nostalgic memories regarding the team and, yes, I think they could've done a lot better than "Wizards" for a replacement, but I am 100% thankful that the team rebranded.  "Wizards" may still sound weird to me two decades from now - but I'm really glad that it won't sound strange to future generations.  That will be THEIR expectation.  They'll forge nostalgic connections to the WIZARDS name - not "Bullets," and that, to me, is a sign of progress.

The existing team name is a racial slur.  That's indisputable.  Given that it is a slur, we're going to treat it as such.  

I get that people feel as though something's being taken away from them or ruined for them, but it's something that never should've been yours to begin with.  If you were given a birthday gift that turned out to be stolen property, you'd be sad to see it go but, at the same time, it's only "unfair" if you completely ignore the gift's origins.

If YOU don't find the name offensive, fine, but that doesn't give you the right to say that NOBODY should find it offensive because it's not "meant" to be offensive.  It's a slur.  Slurs ARE offensive.  

Further, if I stand on your foot, I have no right to tell you whether it's painful or not.  

This is like standing on somebody's foot, telling them that because YOU don't feel pain, it's not painful, and refusing to move because moving would be inconvenient and the other person just needs to get over it. 

How long has meth been openly against the team?

I was always under the impression he was a homer. 

I lived in DC for years and grew up in the area.  I'm a diehard Wizards fan and manage the team's season thread.  

While I've followed the local team since childhood, I find the name completely disrespectful and cannot support the franchise on that basis.  

Where is this thread that you guys are talking about?


And honestly it's not that hard to understand why the name NEEDS to change.


Not all traditions are good ones.

Exactly.

So they should spend MILLIONS of dollars changing the team name because a small group of people are offended by it? Sorry, it's not my business to tell them what to do, just like it's none of your business.

In this case, NikeTalk IS my business.  We've prohibited slurs for 13 years and I am absolutely DONE with making an exception for this one just because some spoiled billionaire had the audacity to trademark it and print it on a jersey.  

I don't have to go along with it.  I don't have to permit the slur to be posted on our forums.  So, if I have no right to complain about Snyder's business, you have no right to complain about NikeTalk's business.  Does that sound fair?  

This team represents our local community just as NikeTalk represents an online community.  I don't think it's unreasonable for people to have an opinion about our policies, just as I don't think it's unreasonable for people to have an opinion about the local NFL franchise.  

And if people choose to boycott NikeTalk as a result of this, I'm fine with that.  If I expect Snyder to lose a little money to put himself on the right side of history, I should be willing to do the same.  And we are.

And that's what this comes down to.  The existing name is on the WRONG side of history.  NikeTalk prohibited users from calling something "gay" as a pejorative thirteen years ago, when such prejudice was even more popular than it is now.  Many people disagreed with that decision.  Some users fought tooth and nail against our efforts to weed out the use of abbreviations and substitutes for racial slurs.  We held firm on that, too.  

Our goal is to make NikeTalk a safe and welcoming place for users of all ages and backgrounds, and permitting slurs is contrary to that goal.  We have every right to make this move and while I would love to have your support, we know we can't please everyone and we ultimately have to do what we believe is right.

If you can't agree with that, I hope you can at least respect it.

I'll edit the thread title accordingly, but I'm not acknowledging (sp?) the "winner" of the renaming contest. I think that's beyond lame. Meth made the executive call on filtering the name and that should be it. The NTer who wins the contest will certainly enjoy the $500, but that name will not be used in this thread. Just my .02

We're holding a contest to get the community involved and make this a positive rather than a negative.  We'd like to start a new tradition and find a name that our users enjoy and represents the character of the community.  

We have the ability to replace the lead post in any topic to ensure that lead posts receive regular updates where appropriate.  If we absolutely have to, we'll make a replacement in this case and another user who is willing to honor our policy can assume the responsibility.

As we don't have to lock the thread and create a replacement to accomplish this, the disruption would be minimal.  If anyone's interested in taking on the task in the event that we have to make a change, let me know. 

If you just want to call the team "the skins," in the topic post, suggest it in the contest thread and vote for it, or vote for "pigskins" when polling opens.  After the contest ends, we'll add a pinned topic here in the S&T forum to make sure that new visitors from that point forward aren't confused by the replacement name.  

 

[jpzx]

I mean, I'm not offended by it at all and would be fine if the ******** name stayed in place, however!

If it's a racial slur, and to even one, single group on the same level as the N-Word, then it should be eradicated. Just because Snyder is running a billion dollar franchise that doesn't mean he has an exempt card in his $5000 dollar jacket pocket that only he has liberty to.

 

[parada45]

I think it’s unfair that only the ******** are getting singled out

It’s a bunch of what would be considered “racist” team names out there

 

[jjs07]

If Meth wants to add "********" to the filter, then that's fine. I completely understand and respect the POV of those who do find it offensive. However, my issue is with the "renaming" contest. When the filter comes in on 9/5, I'm going to comply. I'm not going to try to circumvent the filter by finding ways around and trying to post the name ******** by typing R*edskins or something along those lines. I have too much respect for Meth to do that. What I won't do is type in the fictional name that was chosen as the winner of the contest. If Meth wants someone else to run the thread who will acknowledge the contest winner in the thread title, then so be it.

 

[jpzx]

^ Seems like a good reason to make a stand, were you asked to include the hypothetical winner in the title or something?

Or are you just making that clear before in case.

 

[jjs07]

^ Seems like a good reason to make a stand, were you asked to include the hypothetical winner in the title or something?

Or are you just making that clear before in case.

working out the details right now w/ meth...

 

[jpzx]

Some Niketalk altering stuff going on in your inbox right now.

 

[jjs07]

Per Meth, replacement name IS going in the thread title...

 

[jayfiend]

Just like in the real world people pick and choose when to be saints.

 

[INTLplayers]

back to ******** news, does anybody think Tanard Jackson will make it back on this team?

http://www.csnwashington.com/footba...*/talk/tanard-jackson-hopes-get-back-********

I wan't to feel like he's grown up, and you can tell by the sincerity in his voice, but 3 strikes already.....I dunno man

 

[theone2401]

I think it’s unfair that only the ******** are getting singled out

It’s a bunch of what would be considered “racist” team names out there

Not even just team names.

There are plenty of words that can be considered racist or "insert negative description here" and they are not being discussed for banishment.

I understand that this is a personal issue to MethodMan I just wish he would come out and say that and not present it that he is doing this for NT's benefit or that he has to do it because "********" is undeniably a slur.

This is his own personal statement on his own personal forum. I support his right to do that but the PR spin is not helpful or necessary.

 

[deuce king]

I think it’s unfair that only the ******** are getting singled out

It’s a bunch of what would be considered “racist” team names out there

Why not start a petition, then present it to Method Man to get those team names censored as well??  If you really feel that way. 

 

[jjs07]

Why not start a petition, then present it to Method Man to get those team names censored as well??  If you really feel that way. 

Meth is going to do what he wants to do.

I mean, how serious are you going to take a game thread where it's the Washington Cicadas/Monuments/etc. vs. the Philadelphia Eagles?

My issue is solely with the contest. I have no problem with him censoring the word. This is his site, and as I mentioned before I completely understand the problem people have with the term "*******." However, where do we go from here? If someone cops a ******** aparrell, are they not allowed to post it b/c of "********" on the front? What about the Cleveland Indians? Should there be penalties against those who post pictures of the Cleveland Indians baseball team when their mascot is by all purposes JUST as racist as the ******** name?

Filter the word - fine. But, where do we go from here? If anything, maybe there should be harsher penalties here on NT for those who circumvent the filter to post things that are anti-gay, racial slurs, etc. It happens all the time.

*back to football talk....I think Tanard makes the team. Especially with Philip Thomas being out for the season. We need as much help in the secondary as we can get. When CLEAN, Tanard Jackson would arguably be our best safety. I don't know if that speaks more to his talent or the fact that the team has weak DBs.

 

[deuce king]

Why not start a petition, then present it to Method Man to get those team names censored as well??  If you really feel that way. 

Meth is going to do what he wants to do.

I mean, how serious are you going to take a game thread where it's the Washington Cicadas/Monuments/etc. vs. the Philadelphia Eagles?

My issue is solely with the contest. I have no problem with him censoring the word. This is his site, and as I mentioned before I completely understand the problem people have with the term "*******." However, where do we go from here? If someone cops a ******** aparrell, are they not allowed to post it b/c of "********" on the front? What about the Cleveland Indians? Should there be penalties against those who post pictures of the Cleveland Indians baseball team when their mascot is by all purposes JUST as racist as the ******** name?
 

Personally I would, but that's just me.  Sure there might be a few jokes here and there but I think all the new name talk and jokes would pretty much end after 2-4 weeks, just guessing.  I might have missed it but for game day threads or discussion can you all use the name "Skins"?? 

 

[jjs07]

Personally I would, but that's just me.  Sure there might be a few jokes here and there but I think all the new name talk and jokes would pretty much end after 2-4 weeks, just guessing.  I might have missed it but for game day threads or discussion can you all use the name "Skins"?? 

No, the new name is going to be the name in the title of the game thread.

If you want to filter the word, fine. Just leave it at that.

 

[Methodical Management]

I think it’s unfair that only the ******** are getting singled out

It’s a bunch of what would be considered “racist” team names out there

Not even just team names.

There are plenty of words that can be considered racist or "insert negative description here" and they are not being discussed for banishment.

I understand that this is a personal issue to MethodMan I just wish he would come out and say that and not present it that he is doing this for NT's benefit or that he has to do it because "********" is undeniably a slur.

This is his own personal statement on his own personal forum. I support his right to do that but the PR spin is not helpful or necessary.

If you think there are words that ought to be included in the profanity filter, we can certainly consider adding them - but if you want to talk hypocrisy, it's hypocritical to suddenly feign concern about other words only because one you LIKE to use is being "taken away."   

In this case, there's no VALID use for the word.  There's no alternate meaning here.  It's been a slur for far, far longer than it's been a football team.

This isn't some extremist position.  Again, Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon had very strong words for Snyder and Goodell regarding the name recently.  ESPN employees aren't exactly radicals.  

You would not go out to a reservation and say that word to anyone's face.  To say that it's "undeniably a slur" is pretty damned basic.  

I'm sure there are plenty of 13 year old White kids who would like to use racial slurs to sound cool, but they don't get to decide what's offensive to others and what isn't.  

We continue to add to the profanity filter to maintain a safe, respectful community environment.  When users tried to start the trend of using abbreviations for racial slurs, we cracked down on it.  There was plenty of resistance.  I remember Ninjahood wouldn't stop whining about it, for example.  People got over that, and they'll get over this.  

When we prohibited users from saying that something is "gay" as a pejorative back in 1999, that was an unpopular policy.  So was urging users not to describe a high resale price as "rape."  

We're consistently trying to make our community a better and more respectful one.  

The argument "well, if you're gonna do that, then what about this word that I don't really care about but could potentially be considered part of the same category" just strikes me as insincere.  Honestly, I wish we'd done this when we launched the site - but "the time is always ripe to do what's right."  

Most of the resistance here seems to rely on the status quo bias.  If we were talking about an expansion team name, there would be no debate.  No one outside of stormfront would dare suggest it in the first place.   

However, where do we go from here? If someone cops a ******** aparrell, are they not allowed to post it b/c of "********" on the front? What about the Cleveland Indians? Should there be penalties against those who post pictures of the Cleveland Indians baseball team when their mascot is by all purposes JUST as racist as the ******** name?

I'd rather take this step than not take it.  If the implication here is that our policies have to be all or nothing, then in order to censor any profanity whatsoever, I would have to include the word "damn."  That's just facetious.  

You say you're fine with censoring the word, but the difference between censoring the word and holding a renaming contest doesn't have any effect whatsoever on some of the extensions you're referring to regarding jerseys and offensive imagery, like "Chief Wahoo."  If you respect and understand the decision to censor the name itself, then that's going to invite all of these considerations regardless.  However, you can make the slippery slope argument about anything.  Last week you could've said, of other racial slurs, "I think it's stupid that we can't use slurs.  Nobody's censoring the name of Washington's NFL team."   

The bottom line is that we want to maintain a safe, friendly, and respectful community environment and we're going to continue to take steps to that end.  

Selecting an alternative name simply attempts to get the community involved and reduce confusion by choosing a replacement together rather than having the staff suddenly impose one just before the season begins.  

Filter the word - fine. But, where do we go from here? If anything, maybe there should be harsher penalties here on NT for those who circumvent the filter to post things that are anti-gay, racial slurs, etc. It happens all the time.

There are harsh penalties for it.  We ban people for those offenses on a regular basis.  There's a lot of content that you DON'T see because we delete it and ban the users responsible. 

That said, there are literally THOUSANDS of new posts added daily and a handful of staff members can't possibly read it all.  As such, we rely on our fellow members to help bring violations to our attention.  If you see someone posting a slur, report it.  The more people who report something, the more attention it gets.  We do our best to read every single report that comes in, even if only one user complains about it, but if even 5% of users took an active interest in weeding out slurs we'd be a LOT more successful.  

 

[jjs07]

You're censoring a word, but ******** is emblazoned on the front of the jersey. I mean, is it a ban-worthy offense to post ******** apparrel even though the word is deemed offensive? This is what I'm getting at, Meth. Same deal with the Cleveland Indians or Fighting Irish. I personally think it's a slippery slope. I have no issue with censoring the word, but for members who post pics of themselves in gear or with players who have "********" on what they're wearing, you'd have to take action, no?

Trust me, as someone who uses NT (the majority of time) at work, I completely understand why you need to maintain a safe site. However, if you're going to chose this course of action, I think you should also look into other team names, etc.

The renaming here on NT is pointless b/c the team is still called the ********. This is your site and you can do as you choose, but choosing an alternate name when the filter (to me) would be just fine, is silly. I mean, you can narrow down the names to what you feel are appropriate, but it's becoming a comedic sidebar here in S&T.

I know there are good intentions behind what you're doing, but I don't agree with how this is being handled.

As of 9/5, someone else can run this thread....I'll be done posting anything relating to the Skins in here if you're serious about the alternate name going in the thread title (which I think you are). I'll keep whatever football discussion I have involving the ******** to the NFL Season Thread.

 

[Methodical Management]

You're censoring a word, but ******** is emblazoned on the front of the jersey. I mean, is it a ban-worthy offense to post ******** apparrel even though the word is deemed offensive? This is what I'm getting at, Meth. Same deal with the Cleveland Indians or Fighting Irish. I personally think it's a slippery slope. I have no issue with censoring the word, but for members who post pics of themselves in gear or with players who have "********" on what they're wearing, you'd have to take action, no?

Trust me, as someone who uses NT (the majority of time) at work, I completely understand why you need to maintain a safe site. However, if you're going to chose this course of action, I think you should also look into other team names, etc.

The renaming here on NT is pointless b/c the team is still called the ********. This is your site and you can do as you choose, but choosing an alternate name when the filter (to me) would be just fine, is silly. I mean, you can narrow down the names to what you feel are appropriate, but it's becoming a comedic sidebar here in S&T.

I know there are good intentions behind what you're doing, but I don't agree with how this is being handled.

As of 9/5, someone else can run this thread....I'll be done posting anything relating to the Skins in here if you're serious about the alternate name going in the thread title (which I think you are). I'll keep whatever football discussion I have involving the ******** to the NFL Season Thread.

First you claimed you supported the decision to censor the word and only objected to the naming contest, but the naming contest has absolutely nothing to do with any of the other complaints you have about enforcement.  So, now it seems as though you've dug in deeper and decided that you're not in favor of censoring the team's name after all.

The Washington City Paper is calling the team the "Pigskins."  They made the change ONCE and now their readers know exactly which team they're referring to.  Confusion has been minimized.  Rather than just take their name, I thought we'd give our fellow members the chance to select their preferred alternative.  We have a lot of creative people here and many of them enjoy opportunities like this one, particularly since we were able to add in the chance to win a $500 gift card.  

Again, you could make the "slippery slope" argument about anything.  It's not terribly compelling to me, because you could use the exact same argument to try and claim that we have no right to censor ANY racial slurs whatsoever - and I think we all know that NT is better off without them.  Go to youtube and browse through the comments in most videos and tell me they're better off having slurs and profanity.  

So instead of trying to argue by extension, let's just deal with the central issue:  is the team's existing name a slur?  Historically, there's simply no debate there.  It's been used as a slur for far long than it's been used as a football team, and the football team's name is derived from the slur.

To get into the whole "if you do this, then you have to do x,y, and z and I'm not so sure about z" is, to me, kind of silly, because you could use that same logic in reverse to argue in favor of ALL racial slurs and eliminating the profanity filter entirely.  

What we're doing is enforcing our existing rule.  We're not making up a new rule.  We're just acknowledging the simple fact that this IS a racial slur and ought to be treated as such.  We'll start by adding it to the profanity filter and then we can go from there.  

 

[jjs07]

I'm fine with censoring the word, Meth. I never said I wasn't. However, as this discussion evolved, I did some thinking. Which I think I'm allowed to do. As I've always maintained, I can understand why people find the word offensive. However, how is "Skins" going to be an acceptable alternative when it's derived from "********?" You said ******** is a racial slur....would JayFiend be banned for posting a baby pic of himself in a sweater that has ******** on the front? It's no different than the N word to African Americans in some regards (which I've heard argued), so would it be appropriate for someone to post a picture of themselves in an outfit with offensive language that is obviously filtered on the site? This is what I mean by slippery slope. You can say you can apply it to anything, but I think my examples are valid.

 

[Methodical Management]

I'm fine with censoring the word, Meth. I never said I wasn't. However, as this discussion evolved, I did some thinking. Which I think I'm allowed to do. As I've always maintained, I can understand why people find the word offensive. However, how is "Skins" going to be an acceptable alternative when it's derived from "********?" You said ******** is a racial slur....would JayFiend be banned for posting a baby pic of himself in a sweater that has ******** on the front? It's no different than the N word to African Americans in some regards (which I've heard argued), so would it be appropriate for someone to post a picture of themselves in an outfit with offensive language that is obviously filtered on the site? This is what I mean by slippery slope. You can say you can apply it to anything, but I think my examples are valid.

I have no problem with removing any photos that include the word, honestly, so I don't think throwing that out there is a good way to say, "you can't do this to us!"  

We delete pictures that include any other racial slur.  Sadly, they're commonplace on other websites, we it seems like we get reports about them every other week.  It's a slur and we're treating it like a slur.  As frequently as it's used in the context of sports conversations, other slurs are used with even greater frequency in other parts of the web.  That a slur is "popular" doesn't mean it isn't offensive, and I think everyone here should at least be willing to acknowledge that.  

Will I ban someone on September 6th for posting a picture of RGIII in uniform?  No, of course not.  We will, however, make sure people understand what the rule is and we'll see that it's followed moving forward.  

 

[s0lefunk]

Can we just rename the thread to "The Official Washington Burgundy and Gold NFL 2013 Season Thread" or simply the Skins?

I appreciate the contest and respect what it represents. Hell, I may even participate. But running with a fictitious name for my team that some random person came up with does not sit well with me...

There are alternatives that allow actual fans to identify with and for others to still know what team we are talking about. I mean, if we want to reference the Pigskins moniker then I think just cutting it to Skins is fair enough.

 

[Methodical Management]

Can we just rename the thread to "The Official Washington Burgundy and Gold NFL 2013 Season Thread" or simply the Skins?

I appreciate the contest and respect what it represents. Hell, I may even participate. But running with a fictitious name for my team that some random person came up with does not sit well with me...

There are alternatives that allow actual fans to identify with and for others to still know what team we are talking about. I mean, if we want to reference the Pigskins moniker then I think just cutting it to Skins is fair enough.

Someone already suggested "Burgundy and Gold" in the contest thread, actually.  It's a possibility.  

If there are names that you really like, rep the suggestions and vote for them should they become finalists.  

Many teams have multiple nicknames.  I'm fine with the thread title being one thing, but users referring to a team using another nickname as long as that nickname isn't offensive.  We just want to have an "official" nickname we can use to avoid confusion, and that can be something we'll make clear in a pinned topic in this forum so new users coming in will be quickly understand what's going on.  

 

[lokillo40]

Oklahoma literally translates to "red people". Should we have a contest and change one of our nation's states as well. Don't want to offend anyone.

 

[Methodical Management]

If you're in favor of using a RACIAL SLUR on our forums, just come out and say it.  Stop handing me this nonsense about how 'everything is offensive.'  

We don't allow racial slurs on our forums.  The current name is WIDELY considered a racial slur. 

 

[jjs07]

So why not just retitle the thread and have "Skins" in it? I honestly think that's a fair compromise that doesn't need to go through the contest. It's a long-standing nickname of the team.