***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[KHUFU]

An interesting thread from Seth that goes into detail about what we know (and don't know) so far.

People here might be surprised that he doesn't seem to agree with dwalk's "common sense" conclusion.

 

[dacomeup]

B) radacalizes the majority of white americans (the most powerful voting bloc) against you and other progressive policies.

THIS radicalizes the majority of white Americans? I'm 100 percent not buying that.

Saying that it doesn't motivate black voters is also telling half the story. It doesn't motivate black voters because black people are skeptical of it even being a real possibility. We know the racist *** history of this country. Like Coates said, reparations more recently has been associated with stuff like the Chappelle skit. Not tangible and actual solutions for this.

However, the discussion shouldn't be tabled for the fear of "radicalizing white voters". That might be the biggest crock of **** I've ever heard.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

Imagine telling everybody the report you haven't even seen confirms what you don't actually know lol

 

[Methodical Management]

Collusion is not a crime. But conspiracy is. And there were no indictments for conspiracy by trump, or his campaign, with Russia to influence the 2016 election. People were throwing out words like treason. Russian collusion dominated the media for months. It was consistently called a witch hunt by Trump. And it has ended with no indictments related to said conspiracy.

Allegedly.

You still haven't read the report, have you?

Tsk, tsk.

 

[KHUFU]

Mueller knows exaclty what he is doing. Lift that chin up high orange sphincter.

 

[-Red-]

I really really can't get over how ****ing dumb this reperation stuff is in the Democratic nomination.

Reperations is sooooo insane as a political project, it's.

A) never happening

B) radacalizes the majority of white americans (the most powerful voting bloc) against you and other progressive policies.

C) doesn't really motivate black voters.

D) there are many other nomanally race neutral policies you could pursue to help black Americans that are actually possible, and are way more popular with black voters.

E) is NEVER. ****ING. HAPPENING.

Reperations should be like fight club in the Democratic party and the rule number one in fight club is you never ****ing talk about fight club.



And that bill in the house to "study" reperations is also ****ing stupid, we have many statistics to measure black in equality, the scale of the wrong is essentially incalculable and is just a way for white liberal politicians to virtue signal support for black people but at the end of the day nothing will come of it

Ding, ding, ding!!

On top of all of this are the myriad issues related to what would reparations actually entail, who would qualify, how eligibility would be determined, etc.

Pushing this as an ideological purity test, much less as an actual political project, is completely counterproductive to actually enhancing the quality of life of black folks.

 

[elpablo21]

 

[SpittaJetLife]

Allegedly.

You still haven't read the report, have you?

Tsk, tsk.

Great point Meth

 

[Belgium]

Gates' next status update should give us a lot more insight. According to his most recent status update from March 15, he was still cooperating in "several ongoing investigations" according to the Special Counsel. His next status update is scheduled for May 14.

Gates is clearly cooperating in the SDNY Trump Inaugural Committee investigation. Despite being Manafort's deputy, Gates was kept on in a top position after Manafort had to be removed as capaign chairman. Gates went on to become the deputy chairman of the Trump Inaugural Committee and admitted in Manafort's trial that he "might have" pocketed some of the money.
Now that Mueller has filed a report, Rick Gates' next status update should state just one ongoing investigation if his involvement as a cooperator is just in those 2 investigations.

 

[rexanglorum]

I am for reparations both morally and politically. Half the Country doesn't vote, half of the elible voters do not cast a ballot. They don't vote because they perceive both parties as being the same. In this forum and in this thread, the popular imagination sees abstention from voting as fringe position held by brocialists, anarchists and hoteps but as it currently stands, half the adult population agrees that both parties are basically the same.

If you are not deep into politics, if you are a casual observer, its clear to see why so many people would believe that to be the case. The Democratic Party has spent the last quarter Century bragging how similar they are to Republicans. The whole "soccer mom"/"Panera bread' stretgy is cutsie nickname for cynically accepting the electorate as is and pandering to the median voter which is imagined to be an affluent suburbanite. That play to the middle strategy is toxic for an ostensibly left party whose fortunes live and die by turnout.

Above all else, Hillary Clinton lost because of lack luster turnout. It must be emphasized that Trump got fewer votes than Mitt Romney. The Press fixated on those Obama to Trump counties but Clinton lost the election among black working class men in Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Detroit, Flint and East Lansing.

Pair reparations with a leftist redistributive agenda, writ large, and you establish credibility among all sorts of voters who have historically felt betrayed by the narrow range of options presented by the two major parties. If a candidate is willing to attack white supremacy's material consequences in the form of reparations, that candidate's pledges to take on other powerful forces and to liberate other marginalized groups will be taken more seriously. Turnout is the only way to defeat the GOP in the coming years and let reparations be a grand signal that shows the half of American adults, who do not vote, that the Democratic Party's days of centering the needs of rich, white folks in the suburbs are over.

 

[-Red-]

Adolph Reed, Jr., on reparations. Originally published back in 2000. I find his arguments largely persuasive and certainly relevant to today.

https://nonsite.org/editorial/the-case-against-reparations

 

[Belgium]

Nothing to see here

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/23/politics/paul-manafort-million-dollars-forfeiture/index.html
Prosecutors suggest Paul Manafort may be trying to get $1 million out of his forfeiture
Prosecutors suspect Paul Manafort might be trying to secretly claw back about a million dollars he agreed to hand over to the government for his financial crimes — and he could be using the same type of shell company at the core of his legal problems to fake a loan.

A mysterious shell company named Woodlawn LLC — which formed in the middle of special cousel Robert Mueller's investigation into Manafort in August 2017 — claimed in court that it deserves $1 million from Manafort's forfeiture proceeding. The company says Manafort, who was Donald Trump's presidential campaign chairman, still owes that amount to pay back a 2017 mortgage loan.

In a court filing Saturday, the prosecutor said he could not tell if the Nevada-registered corporation's $1 million loan to Manafort was "a real or sham transaction."
The prosecutor says more evidence collection "is necessary because the United States lacks information to be able to discern whether Woodlawn is a person other than the defendant," the court filing said.

Manafort's spokesman declined to comment on the accusation Saturday.

Woodlawn claims it gave Manafort a mortgage loan of $1.025 million in two payments in 2017. But prosecutors haven't been able to pinpoint that the money was actually paid -- or that Manafort paid any of it back.

The company, prosecutors point out, hasn't shared where the money in the loan came from or who owns the company. Woodlawn has only been affiliated with "a manager who apparently resigned shortly after verifying the initial petition and the company's lawyer who subsequently took over that function." The company has no address of its own.

The Justice Department says it needs to seek evidence about Woodlawn before it can determine what the company may be owed. Prosecutors have already settled with some banks for repayments they'll get from Manafort's property sales for loans he received under false pretenses and has not paid back.

Manafort admitted to bank fraud, money laundering and illegal lobbying for Ukrainians in the US as part of his conspiracy and obstruction plea. He said in those admissions that he used shell companies to receive millions of dollars in payments and make lavish purchases, all while hiding them from the US government.

A jury also convicted Manafort last year for tax fraud and bank fraud after a three-week trial that explained the offshore accounts and methods he used to inflate his income for banks, including by claiming he got fake loans.

In all, Manafort must forfeit $11 million to the federal government. Some of that amount may come from the sale of several properties the government has seized. He also must pay, in total, about $25 million in restitution to banks.

 

[gry60]

The argument that "reparations should not be a political issue because it is a non-starter" is just not strong enough.

Many ideas were non-starters at one point or another of the history of this country, such as the very position of black people in this society, or women's role in society away from what religion and tradition prescribed, or codifying certain aspects of electoral campaigns (such as requiring candidates to publish their tax returns).

On top of all of this are the myriad issues related to what would reparations actually entail, who would qualify, how eligibility would be determined, etc.

True, but these are not questions that cannot be answered. My assumption is that many people (on both sides of this issue) just don't want to know those answers and their ramifications.

 

[SpittaJetLife]

Mueller is a Republican. I don’t see much coming from his report.

 

[gry60]

 

[gry60]

 

[hand2handking]

 

[whywesteppin]

Mueller knows exactly what he is doing. Lift that chin up high orange sphincter.

 

[whywesteppin]

Collusion is not a crime. But conspiracy is. And there were no indictments for conspiracy by trump, or his campaign, with Russia to influence the 2016 election. People were throwing out words like treason. Russian collusion dominated the media for months. It was consistently called a witch hunt by Trump. And it has ended with no indictments related to said conspiracy. If it’s not a dud, what is it? Because random indictments from people who committed tax/bank fraud years before they worked for Trump hardly seem like the aim of the probe.

It is not me that moved the goalposts. In the end, people wanted to see this take down the president. Ostensibly because they don’t like him. It did no such thing.

Thanos is not a criminal. He is a hero. And there were no other plot twists in Avengers: Endgame. It was a terrible movie. People were throwing out words like genocide. Time travel dominated the media for months. It was consistently called a bad movie by Twitter. And it ended with no time travel or any major characters coming back to life. If it's not a dud, what is it? Because random new characters and love stories hardly seems like a solid plotline.

It is not me that moved the goalposts. In the end, people wanted a movie that firmly tied together the entire Marvel universe. Ostensibly because they don't want to feel like they wasted their money. Endgame did no such thing.

 

[whywesteppin]

Collusion is not a crime. But conspiracy is. And there were no indictments for conspiracy by trump, or his campaign, with Russia to influence the 2016 election. People were throwing out words like treason. Russian collusion dominated the media for months. It was consistently called a witch hunt by Trump. And it has ended with no indictments related to said conspiracy. If it’s not a dud, what is it? Because random indictments from people who committed tax/bank fraud years before they worked for Trump hardly seem like the aim of the probe.

It is not me that moved the goalposts. In the end, people wanted to see this take down the president. Ostensibly because they don’t like him. It did no such thing.

Jon Snow is not the prince who was promised. Bran Stark was. And there was no epic battle between the ice dragons and Dany's dragons, or her army, in the final season of Game of Thrones. People were throwing out words like "better than the Wire." Game of Thrones Season 8 dominated the media for months. It was consistently called the television event of 2019 by Twitter. And Season 8 has ended with no explanation for the White Walkers. If it's not a dud, what is it? Because random flashbacks by Bran to people who did impactful things years before the current timeline hardly seem like the aim of this season.

It is not me that moved the goalposts. In the end, people wanted to see if Jon or Dany would sit on the Iron Throne. Ostensibly because they are popular characters. Season 8 did no such thing.

Collusion is not a crime. But conspiracy is. And there were no indictments for conspiracy by trump, or his campaign, with Russia to influence the 2016 election. People were throwing out words like treason. Russian collusion dominated the media for months. It was consistently called a witch hunt by Trump. And it has ended with no indictments related to said conspiracy. If it’s not a dud, what is it? Because random indictments from people who committed tax/bank fraud years before they worked for Trump hardly seem like the aim of the probe.

It is not me that moved the goalposts. In the end, people wanted to see this take down the president. Ostensibly because they don’t like him. It did no such thing.

Duke is not a championship team. North Carolina is. And there were no impressive plays by Zion, or his team, in this year's March Madness. People were throwing out words like "born winners." Duke basketball dominated the media for months. It was consistently called overrated by Skip Bayless. And the tournament has ended with no championship related to Duke. If it's not a dud, what is it? Because random dunk videos on instagram from people years before they choked on their free throws in the Final Four hardly seem like the top college prospect in the country.

It is not me that moved the goalposts. In the end, people wanted to see this Duke team go all the way. Ostensibly because they think Zion's dunks are cool. They did no such thing.

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

This was all smoke and mirrors. The don probably having a pre mixtape release party at mar-a-lago right now.

 

[stuntman mike]

whywesteppin

 

[IATT]

 

[stuntman mike]

if they’re deemed NOT mature enough, doesn’t it kinda support the case for termination?

 

[nawghtyhare]

if they’re deemed NOT mature enough, doesn’t it kinda support the case for termination?

ALLEGEDLY