teaching discipline WITHOUT causing harm vol. Put that switch down, ma'am

[retro23j]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

You do NOT have to hit/smack/PHYSICALLY HARM a kid to teach him/her to act right. You don't. YOU JUST DON'T.

True. I was beat ONCE and it was the weakest beating ever

. I was more hurt that he actually did it. My dad didn't really want to beat us that time but he had to stand by his word. I don't even know how to explain it but I never gave my parents large problems. I had respect for them and had their attention so I didn't have to act out for anything. I was always shown that whatever they did for me was for my benefit.

Act up? For what? To get embarrassed?

not I. It disgusted me at a young age when I saw my friends act out. In first grade my mom was picking me up from my friends house. It was early so he wanted to come over for a bit and then have his parents come get him but they said no. He went off screaming and slamming doors. I was bert staring from the car window like why u trippn out brah?

Anyway, maintaining that authority and respect is heavy.

 

[cherryred]

I agree with OP

What's the point of beating the kid and then letting them still be at the place they're having fun, or still letting them have things they want?

Most of the people i see beating their kids in public are at wal-mart, and places like that.

Not only that, but a lot of the people who are probeatings live in the city, trailer parks, or ****y places like that, and those places just happen to be known for violence etc...

 You're teaching your kids to be violent. It's not a coincidence that you have to be beat into a gang, which the members regard as their family.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

GREAT post, Ska....

I was spanked as a kid, but I don't think I'll do it to my own children. You can definitely get your point across without a spanking. It starts early, IMO. Your kids HAVE To know their boundaries.

- from the time your kid is born, MAINTAIN your authority.

When out and about, I see this all the time where the kid is in control...parents GIVING IN and letting their children get away w. murder just to stop a tantrum.

So what should a parent do if a child just goes through one of those situations in public. Screaming loudly and just not doing what you are asking them to do. What can you do there?

 

[wren32]

that's all fine and dandy in theory. When I was a kid I got my fair share of +#! whoopins and I deserved them all. Punishment like that made me who I am today. I have thanked my parents for disciplining me like that when I was a kid. 95% of kids need that kind of discipline or they will run a muck, that's the problem with parents these days is they are scared to "hit" their kids and therefore kids do as they please cuz their parents wont discipline them. Kids lack respect and discipline.

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

GREAT post, Ska....

I was spanked as a kid, but I don't think I'll do it to my own children. You can definitely get your point across without a spanking. It starts early, IMO. Your kids HAVE To know their boundaries.

- from the time your kid is born, MAINTAIN your authority.

When out and about, I see this all the time where the kid is in control...parents GIVING IN and letting their children get away w. murder just to stop a tantrum.

So what should a parent do if a child just goes through one of those situations in public. Screaming loudly and just not doing what you are asking them to do. What can you do there?

There is some good info on this site...copy/paste wasn't working, but I'll link

Link

 

[darthska]

DCAllAmerican:

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DoubleJs07:

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GREAT post, Ska....

I was spanked as a kid, but I don't think I'll do it to my own children. You can definitely get your point across without a spanking. It starts early, IMO. Your kids HAVE To know their boundaries.

- from the time your kid is born, MAINTAIN your authority.
When out and about, I see this all the time where the kid is in control...parents GIVING IN and letting their children get away w. murder just to stop a tantrum.
So what should a parent do if a child just goes through one of those situations in public. Screaming loudly and just not doing what you are asking them to do. What can you do there?
I've already addressed this in the thread, but you have a few steps.

At a grocery tore:
- I'll start with telling my son he needs to stay with me... RIGHT by me, which means constantly keeping hold of either the cart or my clothes... so I can make sure he's not going to be mean (and I'll tell him exactly that).
- That doesn't work? He's showing that he has no interest in staying by me? Then I start taking out stuff that is for him. His chocolate Cheerios, fruit snacks, the Thomas&Friends book he picked out... whatever.
- THAT doesn't work? His tantrum continues to stay the same or even get worst? Bail out. Head to the house. I've never gotten to this point in a grocery store. Actually, I've never gotten past the second step. He'll get his act right no matter what he's doing when he's grabbing my shirt, watching as we walk through the store and I put 'his' unbought stuff back.

Out in public, but not at a store? Like I said, I only had this happen once, and we bailed.
- We paid admission, it was to a water park, and after we got everything situated, I told him he needed to stay with me. He started throwing a fit, and sat down crying. I told him I don't want anyone to steal him and I don't want him to get hurt and blah, blah, blah... but he continued crying, louder and louder the more I talked.
- I sat down and told him if he doesn't stop crying, we'll go home.
- I waited, and he didn't stop. I told him "Wipe your eyes, please," and he refused (literally the ONLY time he has refused when I've said that). So I stood up, grabbed his hand, and off we went.

And at every step, I tell him what the next step is. When I told him to stay with me @ the grocery store, I told him I would start putting his stuff away. When I started putting his stuff away, I told him we would leave. When we left the water park, I told him when we get home, he's taking his shoes off and sitting in his timeout chair. On the way home, he stopped crying, and when we got home, he sat down in his chair, no problem. While he was sitting down, he asked me if we could go back. "Nope, not today. Maybe next time when I tell you to stay by me, you'll listen." We haven't gone back to THAT place yet, but we've obviously gone other places. Think it was a problem when I told him to stay with me or we'd go home?

 

[darthska]

wren32:

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that's all fine and dandy in theory.
It's fine and dandy in practice, too.

wren32:

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When I was a kid I got my fair share of +#! whoopins and I deserved them all. Punishment like that made me who I am today.
There's more than one way to skin a cat.

wren32:

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95% of kids need that kind of discipline or they will run a muck
'Need discipline' is absolutely correct'; 'need to be hit' is absolutely incorrect. Hitting is not the ONLY form of punishment, bro.

wren32:

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that's the problem with parents these days is they are scared to "hit" their kids and therefore kids do as they please cuz their parents wont discipline them.
Some parents are scared to hit... but most are just clueless as to how else they can discipline their kid if they're not going to hit them. They literally have no clue what they're doing.

wren32:

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Kids lack respect and discipline.
Yep, and hitting a kid isn't the only way to teach respect and discipline.

 

[solewoman]

Great post. I agree that a child should be spanked...but as stated you have to be consistent. My father only whopped me once in my entire life. but while i was young he always carried around a wooden paddle that was about an inch thick. My brothers got hit with it, i was only threatened. My dad would always talk to me and he had a way with words that no whooping could ever equate too. if i messed up the worse thing anyone could say would be..."im telling your father"

my mother on the other hand, she would whoop me every chance she got but it was random and the whoopings varied in severity and 9/10 i would still get what i wanted. Therefore i always tried her. And since she was never home punishments were a joke. as a result i never listened to my mother. I see how my mother is with my younger siblings and the whoopings are totally ineffective. my little brother who is 12 weighs 150 lbs and thinks of her whoopings as well as his fathers as love taps. as solid as he is. but all my younger siblings listen to me because i have adopted the same principle as my father did with me. which ska spoke of:

"MAINTAIN your authority. YOU make the decisions, YOU call the shots, YOU decide where y'all are going, what you're buying, what y'all are eating, etc."

i let all kids that hang with me know that they have to earn choices in life and as a child the have none.

When i have kids I am not sure what approach I will take. maybe a combination of them or whatever my husband believes in as long as its within reason. i cant stand bad $@+ kids though

 

[scshift]

I think as long as you make it known that you're the one calling the shots and that there will be no screwing around you're good... whenever I'm in public and I see a screaming kid I rarely see the parents restricting/scolding the child. Instead they try and give the kid things, like video games, food, toys... that's doing it wrong in my opinion.

You don't have to ever lay a hand on a child but you do have to keep them in check. I personally don't think there's anything wrong with yelling at a child. For those of you that have seen Pursuit of Happyness with Will Smith, I think how he addressed his son whenever his son acted out was appropriate, basically strong, forceful commands whenever they step out of line.

 

[4318michaeljohnson4318]

Ska I do applaud to for taking a good stance but you should wait a bit more than 4 years old to really be pushing this so heavily. I do believe children dont need to be abused but a pinch or a slight spanking is not as bad as you made it seem. I have read both books you have referred to and in both of them the kid was ABUSED not disciplined but ABUSED. I do agree that you shouldnt abuse your kids over little things but sometimes a slight sense of pain is needed to just get a kids attention so you then can talk to them. An %@@ whooping without a nice talk after is not the goal.

 

[wren32]

23ska909red02 wrote:

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wren32:

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that's all fine and dandy in theory.
It's fine and dandy in practice, too.

wren32:

---

When I was a kid I got my fair share of +#! whoopins and I deserved them all. Punishment like that made me who I am today.
There's more than one way to skin a cat.

wren32:

---

95% of kids need that kind of discipline or they will run a muck
'Need discipline' is absolutely correct'; 'need to be hit' is absolutely incorrect. Hitting is not the ONLY form of punishment, bro.

wren32:

---

that's the problem with parents these days is they are scared to "hit" their kids and therefore kids do as they please cuz their parents wont discipline them.
Some parents are scared to hit... but most are just clueless as to how else they can discipline their kid if they're not going to hit them. They literally have no clue what they're doing.

wren32:

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Kids lack respect and discipline.
Yep, and hitting a kid isn't the only way to teach respect and discipline.
Its not the only way but it is the most successful at getting the point across. This just talking to your kid approach might work for you which is great but most parents wouldn't be able to discipline their kids by talking to them. That time out crap doesn't work. I wasn't scared of losing toys or video games when I was a kid I was scared that if I was to act like an +$# in school then my dad would be at home waiting for me. physical punishment lasts a lot longer in a kids mind than a firm talking to. Parents talking too much is why today's generation of kids/younger adults is a bunch of undisciplined little bastards.

  

 

[darthska]

4318MichaelJohnson4318:

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Ska I do applaud to for taking a good stance but you should wait a bit more than 4 years old to really be pushing this so heavily.
Does it count that I also apply these same principles to the juveniles I work with? I work with 15, 16, 17 year old kids, in my facility because of charges ranging from possession to domestic violence to aggravated assault, and I get them to respond favorably because of the same exact principles I've explained in this thread. If I hit them, I not only lose my job, but all my credentials would be meaningless because I would never be allowed to work with kids again.

I stay a step ahead of them, maintain my authority with them, explain consequences to them and let them know what's next, make them earn 'fun' things, and I maintain respect towards them.

So this isn't just being applied to one 4-year old and then hailed as 'the answer'; I'm doing this w/ my son, and I've also done this with the couple hundred juveniles I've had in my direct care over the years.

And MOST of these kids are coming from a home where they were literally walking all over their mom, not listening to a damn thing she was saying, doing whatever they wanted, and she had no idea how to get them to do what they're supposed to do. I work with the kids every day, and sporadically with her (or whoever the guardians are), teaching the kids to respond to consequences, and teaching the parents to enforce consequences.

 

[darthska]

wren32:

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Its not the only way but it is the most successful at getting the point across.
Just because it's the most used doesn't mean it's the most successful.

wren32:

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This just talking to your kid approach might work for you which is great
First off, it's more than just 'talking to'. Second, it's not that it 'might' work for me; it DOES work for me.

wren32:

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but most parents wouldn't be able to discipline their kids by talking to them.
NO parent could discipline their kid by just talking to them.

wren32:

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That time out crap doesn't work.
Like I said in the very beginning, that's your opinion... but it's wrong.

wren32:

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I wasn't scared of losing toys or video games when I was a kid I was scared that if I was to act like an +$# in school then my dad would be at home waiting for me.
That's your problem, thinking that fear is the key to discipline. That's sad. I don't want my son afraid of me. My kids at work, they're not afraid of me. And I don't want them afraid of me. I'm about to go to work right now, and I bet that out of my group right now, only 2 of them feel like I could whoop their %%* if we threw hands. The rest of them, I'm confident they know they could take me. Yet... best believe, within 5 minutes of me being there, they WILL be cleaning up and doing chores, because they know that after cleanup is basketball. No cleanup? Cool with me. No basketball... which is also cool with me.

Like I said, fear is nowhere in that equation... but respect for my authority is.

 

[realrubirosa]

What would you suggest for a five year old who seems to be doing the 'run all over the parent' routine already? Would just suddenly starting the methods you mentioned be good or is there some sort of transitory step you'd recommend? Also, do you think--since you said you also work with older kids who don't normally demonstrate good behavior--that there is a point of no return? That is, a point where it's tool late to teach them any sort of discipline?

 

[gregzzy23]

I don't condone what happened in the video from that thread but I can't rock with this thread either. An @%$ whooping can go a long way sometimes. It all depends on the situation, if you're an abusive parent by nature, beating your kid for every little thing, obviously that's wrong. I know the few I had in my life were well deserving.

 

[darthska]

Yes, there is a point of no return... and working in the field I do, I've seen it.

Believe me when I say most of you will never, EVER see that kid. "Oh, I'm telling you, ska... my nephew/sister/cousin is definitely at"... no, they're not.

For the 5 year old, he's young enough to respond to...
... an instant change in the parents taking a more authoritative role in how things go (making decisions)
... a instant enforcement in behaviors dictating the parent's decisions.

If they started doing that today, that kid's behaviors would be night and day in a month's time.

 

[wren32]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

wren32:

---

Its not the only way but it is the most successful at getting the point across.

Just because it's the most used doesn't mean it's the most successful.

wren32:

---

This just talking to your kid approach might work for you which is great
First off, it's more than just 'talking to'. Second, it's not that it 'might' work for me; it DOES work for me.

wren32:

---

but most parents wouldn't be able to discipline their kids by talking to them.
NO parent could discipline their kid by just talking to them.

wren32:

---

That time out crap doesn't work.
Like I said in the very beginning, that's your opinion... but it's wrong.

wren32:

---

I wasn't scared of losing toys or video games when I was a kid I was scared that if I was to act like an +$# in school then my dad would be at home waiting for me.
That's your problem, thinking that fear is the key to discipline. That's sad. I don't want my son afraid of me. My kids at work, they're not afraid of me. And I don't want them afraid of me. I'm about to go to work right now, and I bet that out of my group right now, only 2 of them feel like I could whoop their %%* if we threw hands. The rest of them, I'm confident they know they could take me. Yet... best believe, within 5 minutes of me being there, they WILL be cleaning up and doing chores, because they know that after cleanup is basketball. No cleanup? Cool with me. No basketball... which is also cool with me.

Like I said, fear is nowhere in that equation... but respect for my authority is.
Ok opinions cant be wrong. Youre missing the point of what im saying. you can talk to your kids and get a point across but when it comes to the big things like acting out at school hitting people etc. time outs wont work. Im not sure what kids who arent yours (your job) have to do with this dicussion. You like timeouts and I like other types (military approach) of dicipline.  Lets agree to disagree. 

  

 

[benssick]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Absolutely!

And the same goes where I work. I work in a juvenile treatment center, where kids are court ordered to be there until we decide they're ready to go back home. For some kids, they get charged with something, sent to us, and get their acts right fairly quickly, meaning they go him in 5-6 months. Others? I had one kid that just left 2 months ago... after walking through our doors in September 2009.

And the kids at work know that I have high expectations for them, and they obviously also know that I'm not going to hit them, cuss them out, raise my voice... none of that. No need. They want to refuse chores, throw hands, slam doors? Cool; no outdoor rec time, no movies, and no off-campus activities for x amount of time. Nothing for me to get all worked up over, yelling and cussing and all that.

 

[likethematrix]

lol just cause you had %#+%+@ parents doesnt mean physical punishment will corrupt.
some kids need physical boundries.
when i was a child, my father threw away (in order and over the years) my Atari 2600, 5200, EVERY NINTENDO GAME I HAD (over 110 at the time), SNES, Turbo Graphix 16, n64 and PS1.
did i care ever? no.
when he threw a vaccum cleaner at my head is when i learned my %+%@+!* lesson.
i wish he would have beat my %+% when i was younger cause then i could have kept all my video games.

 

[T0INE]

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

I don't think it's "lazy parenting" as you put it, just a different method to get the same result. Some kids are really just bad as hell and whooping them is the only way they'll get a point. I've seen too many kids just run over their parents and are like "I don't spank my child" he/she goes into timeout and it just boggles my mind because that's not how I was raised or pretty much anyone around me.

Cultural/ethnic differences I believe are a factor in this as well.

Co-sign.

I'm from the Caribbean and beatings were the only form of discipline we knew growing up. 

 

[ill legal operation]

Sit down lil man...

 No.

What did you just say to me?

 You heard me.

OK.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

4 minutes later...

Sit down lil man...

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

Some kids don't need it, some kids do...

 

[tfromthe617]

Originally Posted by ILL LEGAL OPERATION

Some kids don't need it, some kids do...

QFT... just the way of the world.

 

[waveyjoneslocker]

Kids aren't rational beings.

I want my kids to shudder in fear whenever I raise my hand (notsrs)

 

[nubiandisaster]

If my parents actually raised me like that... like the punishment being a "stern talk" and some "privileges" taken away.
I'd grow up like my friends doing whatever in the heck i wanted to.
eta: there comes a time when your child will try to challenge your authority. 

a stern talking to aint gonna solve any problems then. 

 

[seasoned vet]

Originally Posted by ILL LEGAL OPERATION

Sit down lil man...

 No.

What did you just say to me?

 You heard me.

OK.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

4 minutes later...

Sit down lil man...

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

Some kids don't need it, some kids do...

 
A+