teaching discipline WITHOUT causing harm vol. Put that switch down, ma'am

[gmsboy1]

For those that got beat: did ya'll try to got to your rooms or be inconspicuous around the time your father
got home even when you hadn't done anything wrong?

Old man had me shook. I would go read or do my homework, just to not look in his eyes.

 

[Renaldo Balkman]

posting to read later.... lot's of text but seems informative

 

[frostythepoptart]

ska does low-tier parenting.

everyone is free to raise their kids and to hold their own views.

beating kids for the win.

I'm could see in 2 years this same kid knowing the repurcussions of his actions and that he's already lost the battle just sitting in the middle of a busy store crying, refusing to get up

while Dr. Phil over here continues to preach logic and reasoning to the young one. (in b4 someone misconstrues my words into logic being bad for kids)

 

[north dade represent]

I'll have to play it by ear. I'd rather not physically discipline my kids, but I'm definitely not opposed to it if I feel that's the only way to get through to them.

 

[MVP]

Originally Posted by NubianDisaster

If my parents actually raised me like that... like the punishment being a "stern talk" and some "privileges" taken away.
I'd grow up like my friends doing whatever in the heck i wanted to.
eta: there comes a time when your child will try to challenge your authority. 

a stern talking to aint gonna solve any problems then. 

QFT. I tried to raise up at my dad one time...yeah, never again

 

[f3djam]

Thats great and I agree to your points to an extent. But not everyone is the same way. some people just need to get their butt whooped.

Im not talking about beat downs, just here and there. stay in line.

 

[youngtriz]

Originally Posted by JBug88

your opinion is noted. HEAVILY influenced on your past, but still noted.
everybody, not just kids, is wired differently.
I have 2 kids. My oldest is 8, youngest is 3.
they are night and day.
at age 3, my oldest was a damn good kid. he listened.
my youngest, at 3, is a bastard.
different personalities respond to different methods. I'm a little tougher on the younger one than I was on the older, because that's what he responds to.
now do I believe in the "belt" or "getting a switch"? hell. no. that's abuse.
but I have no problem with the occasional hand slap.

-J-

i also believe in spanking their butt... there is a difference between spanking and beating/drawing blood.. i got beatings when i was a kid.. 

 

[weekz]

my raising has been a mixture of both techniques.
if i didnt want to eat what was cooked, i didnt get any desert nor could i eat anything else (yes they actually made sure of it)
and if i tried to get around my punishment, then the licks/lashes would ensue

 

[rawsheed]

maaaan i'll probably type more later

but ska, we've done a lot of what you wrote for some of the kids who continually like to break rules at our day-care (work in an after-school elementary program)

some of em just don't get it. sadly, without a doubt, it comes straight from the parents apathy whenever we notify them of their child(ren)'s behavior. some of em just don't give a damn

 

[Gill Baka Esq. LLC.]

Beatings do have their place...but it's usefulness is dependent upon the parent doing the beating and the who,what,when,where and why of the situation.

Ska you might be opposed to it and rightfully so, but your coming off all high and mighty because you feel so strongly about it. like someone said...spanking and hitting are two different things...if your drawing blood your truly not fit to be a parent.

I feel a parent should be firm and strict when the time needs it...all these time outs and taking away toys has their limits like spanking does...couple that with the fact that not every child is the same and each one has their own natural temperaments, so the best thing for parents to do is learn what works for their children and don't get lazy with the problem.

Like Ska said...spanking is the result of lazy parenting...but so is practically every other method a parent gets used to with their kids.

Before the problem starts it would be wise to inform children not just the basic difference between right and wrong but make certain things clear that is not already apparent...stuff between the black and white of the situation.

Like another said in this thread...how exactly do you discipline a kid inside a public place acting up because their not getting their way...it's a hard situation to say one clear method works because like I said each kid is different and respond to different things differently.

Theirs no tried and true method for kids...but parents need to atleast put in the necessary work to learning how to handle their kids and need to stop basing their methods on the way their parents did it or whats the popular method of handling kids in their community.

It's like whats worse...the black parent spanking their kid for acting up at the supermarket because the kid is screaming like a demon or the black parent calmly telling their kid to calm down because they didn't buy their kid a toy and the kid is just making the parent look like a fool in the toy store by spitting at them and calling them curse words.

 

[jmadidas2001]

Originally Posted by wren32

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

wren32:

---

Its not the only way but it is the most successful at getting the point across.

Just because it's the most used doesn't mean it's the most successful.

wren32:

---

This just talking to your kid approach might work for you which is great

First off, it's more than just 'talking to'. Second, it's not that it 'might' work for me; it DOES work for me.

wren32:

---

but most parents wouldn't be able to discipline their kids by talking to them.
NO parent could discipline their kid by just talking to them.

wren32:

---

That time out crap doesn't work.
Like I said in the very beginning, that's your opinion... but it's wrong.

wren32:

---

I wasn't scared of losing toys or video games when I was a kid I was scared that if I was to act like an +$# in school then my dad would be at home waiting for me.
That's your problem, thinking that fear is the key to discipline. That's sad. I don't want my son afraid of me. My kids at work, they're not afraid of me. And I don't want them afraid of me. I'm about to go to work right now, and I bet that out of my group right now, only 2 of them feel like I could whoop their %%* if we threw hands. The rest of them, I'm confident they know they could take me. Yet... best believe, within 5 minutes of me being there, they WILL be cleaning up and doing chores, because they know that after cleanup is basketball. No cleanup? Cool with me. No basketball... which is also cool with me.

Like I said, fear is nowhere in that equation... but respect for my authority is.
Ok opinions cant be wrong. Youre missing the point of what im saying. you can talk to your kids and get a point across but when it comes to the big things like acting out at school hitting people etc. time outs wont work. Im not sure what kids who arent yours (your job) have to do with this dicussion. You like timeouts and I like other types (military approach) of dicipline.  Lets agree to disagree. 

  
Actually they can be...and, in this case...yours is wrong...100% incorrect...

Ironic isn't it that you cited "acting out at school hitting people..."...where do you think that a child learns that hitting people is OK???   Hmmmm...maybe from his parents....DING, DING, DING!!!  It's almost like you did it on purpose...

The only thing that needs to be agreed upon is that hitting your child teaches them nothing but to fear the actions of their parents and NOT to correct behavior...believe it or not...people much smarter than you (and I) have done exhaustive research into the results of "physical discipline" in children and ALL CREDIBLE results come back in favor of NOT HITTING CHILDREN...

Thus...we come to our conclusion...it is wrong to hit children and it doesn't work as discipline...plain and simple...you're wrong...move on...don't hit your children, break the cycle...maybe our children will grow up in a United States that ISN'T one of the most violent countries on earth...

JM

 

[limonyfresh]

Whichever way you have to get the authority across is how it needs to be done. No child is hard wired the same as another so if one strategy doesn't work, then try another.

 

[wren32]

Originally Posted by jmadidas2001

Originally Posted by wren32

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Just because it's the most used doesn't mean it's the most successful. First off, it's more than just 'talking to'. Second, it's not that it 'might' work for me; it DOES work for me. NO parent could discipline their kid by just talking to them.

Like I said in the very beginning, that's your opinion... but it's wrong.

That's your problem, thinking that fear is the key to discipline. That's sad. I don't want my son afraid of me. My kids at work, they're not afraid of me. And I don't want them afraid of me. I'm about to go to work right now, and I bet that out of my group right now, only 2 of them feel like I could whoop their %%* if we threw hands. The rest of them, I'm confident they know they could take me. Yet... best believe, within 5 minutes of me being there, they WILL be cleaning up and doing chores, because they know that after cleanup is basketball. No cleanup? Cool with me. No basketball... which is also cool with me.

Like I said, fear is nowhere in that equation... but respect for my authority is.

Ok opinions cant be wrong. Youre missing the point of what im saying. you can talk to your kids and get a point across but when it comes to the big things like acting out at school hitting people etc. time outs wont work. Im not sure what kids who arent yours (your job) have to do with this dicussion. You like timeouts and I like other types (military approach) of dicipline.  Lets agree to disagree. 

  

Actually they can be...and, in this case...yours is wrong...100% incorrect...

Ironic isn't it that you cited "acting out at school hitting people..."...where do you think that a child learns that hitting people is OK???   Hmmmm...maybe from his parents....DING, DING, DING!!!  It's almost like you did it on purpose...

The only thing that needs to be agreed upon is that hitting your child teaches them nothing but to fear the actions of their parents and NOT to correct behavior...believe it or not...people much smarter than you (and I) have done exhaustive research into the results of "physical discipline" in children and ALL CREDIBLE results come back in favor of NOT HITTING CHILDREN...

Thus...we come to our conclusion...it is wrong to hit children and it doesn't work as discipline...plain and simple...you're wrong...move on...don't hit your children, break the cycle...maybe our children will grow up in a United States that ISN'T one of the most violent countries on earth...

JM

Well you can let your lil bastards run a muck with that time out crap. When they do wrong and deserve an *** whoopin and ill spank my kids and well see where they end up at. You better get that bail money ready now for your wild child.
  

 

[addict4sneakers]

Originally Posted by ILL LEGAL OPERATION

Sit down lil man...

 No.

What did you just say to me?

 You heard me.

OK.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

4 minutes later...

Sit down lil man...

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

Some kids don't need it, some kids do...

this.

i know bad kids that were beat all the time. still a bad kid
i know bad kids that never got beat. still a bad kid.

i can't ever remember my dad whooping me. dude had this quick finger snap the put the fear of God in me. i'm 26 and straighten up anytime someone snaps their fingers.

 

[darthska]

To the guy who said I'm coming off high and mighty: most people trying to go against a failing societal norm get flak for thinking they're better than everyone. I'm not intending to sound better than anyone, but both my research and experience with my own son and hundreds of juveniles definitely make me confident that I have a more fim grasp on the topic than someone's whose only experience w/ childhood is their own childhood.

All this 'Every kid is different' logic is flawed, because we ARE born as blank slates, all of us. We are born knowing nothing, ready to be taught whatever our environment and guardians will teach us. Its not just dumb luck that I just so happened to have one of the kids that was born ready to respond to non-physical discipline. Any kid who was hit or even beat, the same thing could have been applied to them from the jump, and it would have been just as effective.

Whoever pointed out that you didn't care when your dad took away your video games and you wish he'd've whooped your !@# like your friends' parents did: was that as bad as it got? Just take away video games... but you were still allowed to go to senior trips and use the phone and what not? If a kid is unruly, it's because he has either learned that there will be no consequence, or he's learned to suck up whatever is coming. You didn't care about having video games took cuz you knew there were other things you looked forward to. Well, THOSE things should have been took.

And if worse come to worse and your room is basically a damn mattress and a dresser and you never do NOTHING fun... and you're still acting up, getting suspended, I'd send you to military academy before I start hitting you. But I have yet to see a kid have EVERYTHING taken and still act like he can do whatever the hell he wants.

When a kid has an incentive to act right, he does; avoiding physical discipline is NOT the only incentive we're born to respond to.

 

[Gill Baka Esq. LLC.]

ska it sounds like your biting off more than you can chew...

1. you have no proof we start life tabula rasa...like I said do some research on inborn temperaments

2. I think your taking the fact that some of us aren't totally agreeing with you and combined with your rough upbringing and saying outright that beatings have no place in teaching a child a lesson. I beg to differ...it sets up boundaries. Some of which if I had not gotten beat over it could have cost me my life. I stress that it COULD not that it WOULD, because of course I don't know otherwise what would have happened if I took the other path on that fork road.

what you mentioned about incentives is absolutely true. But i'll be damned if a good spanking wasn't stronger than a timeout or taking away my zelda game. You forget, people learn alot from fear, not only how to be afraid of something...but also how to overcome it.

I have struggled with this thought of boundaries, and if the ones instilled in me by my parents was a limiting factor, such as the beatings your talking about. But the way I look at it now was that the beatings I received weren't from frustration they were from teaching and protection...to instill a fear of what not to do in order to protect myself if I was ever in a situation where I could potentially harm myself...i.e. crossing the street without looking and almost getting hit by a car when I was 7.

There was recently an article I came across asking the question if playgrounds are too safe now which are stunting physical development. Sort of parallels what we're talking about here...not the same but the same idea...if we treat every bad behavior too safely...by taking away video games and the like...is their really a lesson to be learned besides "hey i'm gonna do some bad #%!@ and all the rents will do is take away something I like...so i'll pretend to like ben 10 so they won't take away my good stuff."

Kids are smarter than we give them credit for. A spanking would hurt but I feel they would get tougher from it. As long as it's not done out of hatred, frustration, or just an excuse just to hit then spanking does have its benefits.

 

[jmadidas2001]

Originally Posted by wren32

Originally Posted by jmadidas2001

Originally Posted by wren32

Ok opinions cant be wrong. Youre missing the point of what im saying. you can talk to your kids and get a point across but when it comes to the big things like acting out at school hitting people etc. time outs wont work. Im not sure what kids who arent yours (your job) have to do with this dicussion. You like timeouts and I like other types (military approach) of dicipline.  Lets agree to disagree. 

  

Actually they can be...and, in this case...yours is wrong...100% incorrect...

Ironic isn't it that you cited "acting out at school hitting people..."...where do you think that a child learns that hitting people is OK???   Hmmmm...maybe from his parents....DING, DING, DING!!!  It's almost like you did it on purpose...

The only thing that needs to be agreed upon is that hitting your child teaches them nothing but to fear the actions of their parents and NOT to correct behavior...believe it or not...people much smarter than you (and I) have done exhaustive research into the results of "physical discipline" in children and ALL CREDIBLE results come back in favor of NOT HITTING CHILDREN...

Thus...we come to our conclusion...it is wrong to hit children and it doesn't work as discipline...plain and simple...you're wrong...move on...don't hit your children, break the cycle...maybe our children will grow up in a United States that ISN'T one of the most violent countries on earth...

JM

Well you can let your lil bastards run a muck with that time out crap. When they do wrong and deserve an *** whoopin and ill spank my kids and well see where they end up at. You better get that bail money ready now for your wild child.

If you and all of the other knuckleheads on this board that want to dispute facts and go with "that is what was done to me, so that is what is going to be done to my children" flawed logic...maybe you should ACTUALLY read some of the facts...see below...scroll to the "PUNISHMENT" section...the American Academy of Pediatrics or your "opinion"....hmmm...which MIGHT be the right way to go?

http://aappolicy.aappubli...ull/pediatrics;101/4/723

You guys are full of excuses and stories...none of them hold up the scientific research...not only that...they don't hold up to logic and reason...I mean, why is it OK to do something to small, defenseless child that you would potentially serve prison time for doing to another adult?  Try it out...let me know how it works out for you if you smack an adult...

People that think like this actually make me sick to my stomach thinking about what their children go through...

And...YES...SKA and I are "high and mighty"...damn right...and I DO think I am a better person than you because I have never hit my daughters and never will...children should NEVER be hit (and yes, spanking is hitting...argue it all you want...you are wrong...you are using physical force as discipline) under any circumstance...

JM

 

[likethematrix]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

To the guy who said I'm coming off high and mighty: most people trying to go against a failing societal norm get flak for thinking they're better than everyone. I'm not intending to sound better than anyone, but both my research and experience with my own son and hundreds of juveniles definitely make me confident that I have a more fim grasp on the topic than someone's whose only experience w/ childhood is their own childhood.

All this 'Every kid is different' logic is flawed, because we ARE born as blank slates, all of us. We are born knowing nothing, ready to be taught whatever our environment and guardians will teach us. Its not just dumb luck that I just so happened to have one of the kids that was born ready to respond to non-physical discipline. Any kid who was hit or even beat, the same thing could have been applied to them from the jump, and it would have been just as effective.

Whoever pointed out that you didn't care when your dad took away your video games and you wish he'd've whooped your !@# like your friends' parents did: was that as bad as it got? Just take away video games... but you were still allowed to go to senior trips and use the phone and what not? If a kid is unruly, it's because he has either learned that there will be no consequence, or he's learned to suck up whatever is coming. You didn't care about having video games took cuz you knew there were other things you looked forward to. Well, THOSE things should have been took.

And if worse come to worse and your room is basically a damn mattress and a dresser and you never do NOTHING fun... and you're still acting up, getting suspended, I'd send you to military academy before I start hitting you. But I have yet to see a kid have EVERYTHING taken and still act like he can do whatever the hell he wants.

When a kid has an incentive to act right, he does; avoiding physical discipline is NOT the only incentive we're born to respond to.

no, it got worse.
jordans given to mexican kids at the laundry mat, same clothes for the 4th and 5th grade, umm.... so much more things.

cant take away senior trips or outings from a 5-15 yrold.

there was never anything to look forward to. pops was making well over 20/hr in the early 90s and so forth so it wasnt a money issue.

i just didnt give a @+!!. i loved video games more than life. all i had was a bedroom and magazines for a long $*% time.

some kids need to be hit.

ive had christmas' taken away. easters. i missed my 8, 9,11,14 and 15th birthdays.

to be clear, i was not violent. i was a mental bully.

i was almost expelled from middle school for "intimidation".

thats what they would put when you have the entire class scared of you making fun of them if they got something wrong in class.

how do you punish a child with a high iq? 

the children you deal with are comparable to dogs.

give them a  treat and they will sit.

 

[dkjordan23]

your approach to me makes good sense for the most part. But you say, a kid's gonna get to the point where spankings don't matter, theyre physically stronger. But I would argue that the time might come when a child who is disciplined your way may just take up the attitude of "I'm gonna do what I want to do regardless of what my parents say. Cause I feel more strongly about doing this deed that I wanna do than than I care about my parents taking __ away from me or making me do ___". Not arguing for spanking rather than your way obviously, but just asking what your approach would be at such a point?

 

[mj2229]

Respect Ska!!! I gotta say this isn't the typical NT post and it's one truly relevant to us all, and for that, I give you all the props my man!!! My post count is low, but I felt compelled to write in return. I don't know your age, but as an OG NT'er nearing mid-30s that I am (I know, we're almost extinct on here!) I think you have opened up a door; an opportunity for younger cats that either are yet to have kids, or just had them to get acquainted with better parenting skills. To those of you who think this dude's post is "too long to read," my guess is you and books don't mix well, but please, I ask that you read this post thoroughly, not only because he passionately spat knowledge that would make your life easier as a parent, but it could also contribute to society ONLY if YOU put in your own grain of salt! Please, also take the time to analyze the replies as well so you can better appreciate what he, and now I am attempting to share. This is me complimenting the points he's stated.

While reading Ska's posts, I found the many parallels between his experience and mine very interesting! Like Ska, I have a 4 year old preschooler, who I regularly gets compliments for his behavior/manners at school and extracurricular activities. Hopefully, he will continue to do so when the "going gets tough" (his teenage years, I'm already knocking on wood!!!) Regardless, what people really don't know it's everything that takes place from the front door of my home, inwards. As most 4 year olds, he got endless energy and already is starting to test/plot what he can and cannot get away with. But he's a kid, and that's what kids do! Now, does channeling him take time and effort? Patience?? For sure, you better believe it do! But what else better to spend all that "sweating" than on your own flesh and blood???

Although it shouldn't matter, I'm more credible to this audience by sharing that I am of color and was raised in a single-parent household with what living in the city entitles. Also like yourself, by today's standards, during my "teenage years", I, like most folks my age got "abused" in the sense that belts, shoes, hangers, cords, if close to where I was getting it, could be used for whoopings too. I was that kid boys do make fun of because "Man, your mom got that full-court press "Glove" D on you!" They feared her too though haha!! But by all means, I did deserve my whoopings and truly, I think they did their "trick." But on the other hand, also like Ska, I did, and I'm not afraid to admit that I still continue to wrestle with anger management issues. More importantly, I think Ska accurately assessed that as in my case, due to mom's being by herself, often gone during the day working, mom's time and patience was non-existent. She may have felt these whoopings were the only resort she had, in the time she did have with us. I have younger siblings so I bet she felt if her oldest bucked, my bro and sis were looking too!! But awareness is key! I now know she was whooped worse, and more often than not, undeserved! For me, growing up without a male at home has definitely had a dramatic effect in how hard I try to be a "good father" myself! Sure, it does take effort, but I continue to invest time seeking more efficient ways to reach my kid, and I believe, therein lays the issue for many others!! Many of our generation grew up with parents that were not all that "up" for parenting. But needless to say, although I know I am unfairly generalizing, compared to some of today's parents, they were STELLAR parents with much better core values! The reality is the great majority of OUR generation is even LESS fit to raise kids than they were!! Therefore, again allow me to commend you Ska, for shedding light on this important societal issue! But NT'ers if you're still reading, continue to hear me out...

Interestingly, Ska added that he works with youth... I've also done so by teaching middle school in the inner city, actually longer than I have been a parent. This fact alone has provided me (and I'm willing to say to him also) with a much broader view of the issue at hand. As I do with my boy at home, I also use a positive reinforcement method in the classroom, in the sense that when the kids behave they easily earn class points and/or individual points. When they don't, I actually remove a positive (tally points, "free times," enrichment group activities, etc) rather than impose a negative. But those type of consequences (removing toys, time outs, etc) and explaining after the fact are indeed time-consuming and to be honest, to us minorities, as we can easily see from some of the replies on here, they can be seen as "passive" or "soft," and why not... even put down as "white"!

The bottom line is WE are now the parents, and in today's economy, most of us gotta grind hard to make ends meet for our families. That is if you're a responsible one, of course because I tell you, there is a wide array of parents out there! In reality, the stay-at-home mom been out of the equation years ago so our kids get home before we do. Then, when we get home late, we are often tired after a day's worth of work and understandably, the least we want to do is put up with our kids' issues, them being riled up, or ranting and much less demanding things they haven't work towards. But I think this is where I personally believe the "lazy parenting" mentioned takes place. First and foremost, we have to acknowledge, the mistake is on US parents! Our failing educational system will not step in to counter our flaws! I cannot begin to count the many kids at school, especially boys who got the latest retros (garbage anyways, lol) always got a fresh cut, got nice gear, have iPhones, iPods, droids and blackberries, are allowed to play in their AAU's and rotary's and whatnot, but are f'n up in class! (I teach in the inner city, so where all these expensive items come from? I need that hook up too, lol) The more baffling aspect is when I try to contact parents, which I exclusively do when keeping things "in house" don't work... Mom and/or dad more than often feel they are already defeated BUT don't even want to take away any of the luxuries mentioned above!! It is at that given point when one can better understand a child. Right after having a meeting or one conversation with their mom/dad or even grandparents. From the teacher perspective, I do admit the majority of teachers do not take the time to do so. By the way, much props to the many grandparents that step up for what their sons and daughters don't do, but how can a grandparent keep up with nowadays' challenges... how can we ask "gma" or "gpa" as my students say, to keep up with the many challenges of today, such as social networks, which by the way present a new array of emotional and psychological hurdles to our kids???

So my tip to your parents and prospective parents is, once you have seeds, the focus is no longer on you! You can't continue to kick it and run the streets as you did before! I was guilty of that one too! Be a responsible, conscientious adult! Now, once you accept that fact, consistency is the #1 key to it all! I've seen it for nearly a decade now. As tired as you may be at the end of the day, if you have instituted a set of rules, or rewards, or consequences, ENFORCE THEM! Check their HW! Get to know your kid! Figure out what makes him/her tick. What his/her interests are and, most important, what would really affect them if you were take those things away! Teach them the value of merit! They can earn things by WORKING towards them!! Otherwise, your kid will see you don't even take what you preach seriously. Therefore, years down the line, refrain from blaming on his or her personality when they buck on your rules, and consequently, YOU the parent!

As Ska also said, forget thinking that you must get "your money's worth" when you purchase things for them! (By the way Ska, I like the throwing away of cheap/McD's toys in the garbage! I will use that one!) For example, let's say you bought tickets online to go see Transformers 3 and your child acts up in the interim between then and the movie time. Simply, don't go! By far, it is NOT a waste! However, make sure, as Ska stated, that you speak to them and concisely let them know that it's just a consequence to what they did! Kids make the choices and we the parents, or in my case teachers, assign the consequences! As someone stated, there certainly are similarities between raising kids and dogs in that sense. You are simply setting your parameters as the "alpha" parent that you are, and not just for that instance, but future ones as well! Remember, they will be adults one day! Oh, that a tantrums follow, which would be unrealistic to say they don't, you child ought to know better by then because you've set precedent in the past. However, you've got to communicate! Please DO talk to your child! Sternly that is, though! Own what you say, after all you are the adult!!! Also, I do find that most of our kids today often struggle with "knowing how to reason," and often need to be explained with a variety of examples because they truly have a difficulty seeing "cause and effect"! Conflict resolution is another flaw! These kids can't take a "no" or constructive criticism because at home they get theirs by moping and complaining!!

So by all means, lead by example and talk to your kids, and the earlier the better, that is! Often, this is exactly the reason why by middle-school age, when hormones really kick in, parents complain that they do not know how to approach their own off-springs. Oftentimes, if they are trying and aren't successful, parents are quick to quit and have the nerve to complain that for x, y, z reason, the communication is simply not there! Never put up with being addressed in disrespectful tone. In fact, instead of losing your cool, let them know you will not put up with it! I encourage anyone to quietly walk away from that tantrum-throwing child/teenager, whether at home or anywhere else. You'll notice that he or she will see his/her powers diminished! Don't ever forget you feed them, clothe them, shelter them, so after all they cannot make due without you!!! However, don't engage in arguments (I'm guilty of this one!!), simply issue consequences! They will know what to expect in the long run!

To conclude NT, we need more functional, responsible models outhere! Specifically males!! Our boys need it! Be the primary care taker of your kids, if don't do it, who will! So you're either the solution or the problem! We do have our work cut out for us, but it's OUR work! Stop waiting on the US Dept. of Ed.to do it for you!

Thanks for reading and hopefully, let's see responses!

 

[darthska]

Grimlock and likethematrix: thanks for your responses. I'm probably going to have to pick this back up next week sometime, because the job I have is all weekend, every weekend. I live here with these kids, 7am Sat thru Mon @ 3, and being online all the time to post on a message board is slightly frowned upon, to say the least.

But I'll def get back to this as soon as I can.

And to anyone thinking I said I was high and mighty and/or better than the next parent: nah, that was jmadidas that said that.

Not to throw him under the bus, but... that ain't me. There are parents I think I do a better job than, and there are people I think I'm superior to in basketball. There are also tons of parents who have it figured out FAR better than I do, and millions of people who could destroy me on a court.

I'm really just sharing some vastly unpopular and largely undiscussed principles and methods of parenting, in the small hope that maybe someone who thinks that hitting is the ONLY way might reconsider that notion.

And for the record, I just want to reiterate that I'm not COMPLETELY opposed to hitting (well, at least not MY son. I would NEVER hit the kids I work w/, or my nieces/nephews). But my son, I've definitely thought about situations where I'd put hands on him. It's just that I'm not allowing that to be a common thing: in fact, the situations I've considered are pretty extreme (like if he were sent home for hitting female teacher, or if he were older and physically bullying kids much younger).

 

[jmadidas2001]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Grimlock and likethematrix: thanks for your responses. I'm probably going to have to pick this back up next week sometime, because the job I have is all weekend, every weekend. I live here with these kids, 7am Sat thru Mon @ 3, and being online all the time to post on a message board is slightly frowned upon, to say the least.

But I'll def get back to this as soon as I can.

And to anyone thinking I said I was high and mighty and/or better than the next parent: nah, that was jmadidas that said that.

Not to throw him under the bus, but... that ain't me. There are parents I think I do a better job than, and there are people I think I'm superior to in basketball. There are also tons of parents who have it figured out FAR better than I do, and millions of people who could destroy me on a court.

I'm really just sharing some vastly unpopular and largely undiscussed principles and methods of parenting, in the small hope that maybe someone who thinks that hitting is the ONLY way might reconsider that notion.

And for the record, I just want to reiterate that I'm not COMPLETELY opposed to hitting (well, at least not MY son. I would NEVER hit the kids I work w/, or my nieces/nephews). But my son, I've definitely thought about situations where I'd put hands on him. It's just that I'm not allowing that to be a common thing: in fact, the situations I've considered are pretty extreme (like if he were sent home for hitting female teacher, or if he were older and physically bullying kids much younger).

You have to take a stand somewhere in life...some things just need to be 100%...and, ZERO physical discipline of a child is one of mine...100% of the time...COMPLETELY...there is NO gray area here for me...none whatsoever...even your examples are poor...IF your SON would to do one of those things...how would any sort of physical punishment teach him that hitting is OK?

That completely fails the logic test...these gray areas are exactly what leads people to rationalize hitting/spanking their children...I am now very confused as to why you even started this thread...

JM

 

[jermz101]

I feel you op, I was that step kid who got beat like hell, I turned out "fine"...but in the end I missed out on a trumendous amount of things there is definitely another way to go about things...i respect you for sticking to ya beliefs, one day when I have kids I wont hit em for the very same reason

 

[darthska]

Black and white thinking is also destructive thinking.

And the reason I made the thread was to shed light, to help people get out of the destructive mentality that hitting is the ONLY way, when it's not.

I'm not foolish enough to think that I'm going to convince anyone of anything by belittling them into thinking I'm 'right' or that they have to do it the way I say because I say so.

Also, I want everyone to know that I'm not perfect... in ANYTHING. Do I hope that I never lay a hand on my son? Yes, I hope that. Have I thought about what I would do if he were sent home for shoving a female teacher down after all the years I've already began teaching him to not hit a female? Yes, I've thought about that, and I'd be lying if I told you that in every scenario I've played out in my mind, they all end with me never touching him. Nah, a few of the scenarios I've played out, I could see myself slipping up.

It's just that I'm not ok w/ that. I'm not perfect,& I don't have all the answers... and if someone is trying to listen to me because they think I know it all... on ANY topic... they need to stop listening. I'm learning, and I made this post to share some of what I've learned, in all my imperfections and ignorance.

 

[|A-Man|]

I got beatings growing up to the age of 12. I already know I'm not going to have the energy or follow through-ness to be chasing my kids around with a belt. I will be pinching the hell out of them though.

When they get older and if possible the pinches aren't as effective I'll devise alternative methods of discipline.

I will point out there's a stark difference in how Caribbean parents and other folk beat their kids. I aint never get socked in the mouth, kicked, or get beat on like I was a man as a child by my parents. That's just crazy to me how some parents can do that. Leaving serious marks on them and shh.