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again, all it takes for tradition rich programs to get right back is one good hire.
The College Basketball Post
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by allen3xis,
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This is it. I really wanted to see if someone was going to have the balls to actually say it.
Personally when i think CBB I think UCLA, they dominated the onset of the sport so to speak, they have the most chips, most celebrated etc... Then I think UK for all of their history. Then i think of Coach K and Duke, then the Fab 5. I guess I just don't look at that school the same because of constantly hearing from people who didn't even watch the sport tell me that it had to be the best school because MJ went there. His accolades have been attached to the school as if they are one in the same. I mean don't get me wrong Dean Smith was a great coach, he did some legendary things for the game but they aren't what I think about when I think of CBB.
Then when I do think of them I immediately think of that shot that propelled Mike and buddy passing the ball right to James. Like I said its a tier 1 program i just don't see how you can say its heads & shoulders over the other 5 in terms of the glamour associated with it. Especially when you look at a situation like how Cal coming to UK completely re energized the entire scene and dwarfed every single team in the country once they became relevant again.
U
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I've always been curious what will happen with Duke once K retires. The other programs Mike mentioned mentioned have won championships with different coaches in different eras. Hence the reasoning that the programs are winners, blue bloods, etc. But in the case of Duke it's success is entirely intertwined with Coach K. So when K leaves do they continue to be relevant or do they fade like many other programs who had good runs under great coaches?
With that being said are there programs that are playing themselves out of the blue blood category? UCLA has struggled on the championship front much like UK did until recently.
IMO Duke has some work to do post-K to be included in above mentioned programs.
dacomeup
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Cake....I know you hate UNC, but let's be serious.
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what K has done at Duke is far more than a "good run." they won't be fading away.
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name any major program that after going to 3 final 4's would be ok with
12 players transfering in 5 years
only 1 tourtment win in 5 years
1 conference title in 5 years
zero conference tourtment titles
look at the major schools. Duke,IU,Kansas,UNC and UK
the last 5 years the only team that compares as bad as UCLA is IU and if crean didnt turn it around last year he sure as hell would got fired also
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Nonsense from all directions right now 
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Like Charles Barkely said UCLA wants to be a dynasty again but those days are over again Howland has done a great job
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Isn't Syracuse in the top-tier of CBB programs?
Louisville in the second-tier perhaps.
Louisville in the second-tier perhaps.
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I believe Syracuse is a top tier program. Not on the level of UCLA, Duke, UNC ofcourse but only because we have only won One championship.
But in terms of value, popularity, success, wins, etc...I'd say Syracuse is a borderline top 10 school.
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Here's the thing... Regardless of what prior conceived notions I actually have a lot of respect for that program & Roy, I loved him when he was at KU. I've historically loved UNC's PG: Loved Ed Cota's game, Loved Ray, Loved Ty, I liked Kendall... I actually loved that Felton, McCants, & May squad even though I rooted for UofI (close to home with hometown kids & who wants their rival school to win a chip?) I don't diss/throw down UNC unless we're playing them or I'm talking to a disrespectful fan.
Look at KU with Self still top of the food chain, look at what Cal did to UK, look at what's going on at IU... You're telling me that UNC is hands down more glamorous than those programs? I'm sorry I just don't see it.
I'm being honest. It's a top tier program I've said that over and over in this thread. But it is not UCLA or UK, imo those are the two pillars of the sport. IU, KU, UNC, Duke they round out that top tier. You don't hear me saying that Duke is on the same level as those first two, but the foundation that K has laid is just as on par as UNC's performance wise. Dean is amazing for what he did as far as desegregation of the game and the different sets he's brought to the game that helped shaped the game but Dean has two & Roy has two... K has 4. Hell in 3 less years than Dean he has the same amount of final fours and 2 more chips. Now how the program progresses once he leaves is going to be something we have to assess over time. but over the last 3 decade Duke has been up there with any program you want to name in the country while amassing a cult like following of supporters and detractors.
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Its nothing borderline about it, Cuse is a top 10 school imo... but I wouldn't say top tier but they're definitely in that next group with Zona, L'ville, MSU, Gtown, Michigan, & Florida.
My top 10 consist of UCLA, UK, KU, Duke, UNC, IU, Cuse, MSU, Zona, & Gtown.
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worldbefreeg gotta get outta here w/ this Wojo **** 
dacomeup
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Eh, I'd put UK, UNC, Kansas, and UCLA all on the highest tier. They lead the all-time wins, along with having the title success. They've also proven that multiples coaches can achieve the highest level of success there. Duke might deserve to be included as well at some point, but I really want to see how K's predecessor fairs.
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Top tier: Kansas, UNC, UCLA, UK
Mid top tier: Duke, IU,MSU
Lower top tier: Cuse, G'Town, L'Ville, Zona
Even though I read somewhere in terms of value, L'Ville is #1 in the country.
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C'mon, now. Look at his past five years and tell me that's acceptable for one of the Blue Bloods? :x
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It's not just wins or tournament success, Howland lost the reins to the program and all control over his players. Coaches at a major institution won't achieve success if they aren't respected by the players.
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Agreed. Look at all the players he has lost over the past few years. Howland had to go.
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No doubt that.
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Here's the thing about that I can understand that... the longevity of the program as a whole will depend on the next few coaches. But as far as program accolades go, K has done it for 3 decades and done more than any coach not named Wooden. Duke has accomplished what it took 4 coaches to do at UNC with just one. You can't knock the program down a level because it hasn't been through multiple coaches IMO. When he leaves I'm fully expecting a 5-7 yr lull, but that happened everywhere. But Duke will always be a program that will attract masses of people critics and fans alike which is why I place it on that same plateau. It may take a decade for another coach to succeed at Duke but it will happen, but that shouldn't be the basis of why it deserves to be in that class. If K coaches the next 7 years and finishes out the 2010 decade that will be 3 straight decades of being a perennial top 10 program with a chip in each decade.
If that's not a top tier program I don't know how you can say any of those other programs not named UCLA is.
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how you not put Louisville in your top 10, tho? Georgetown and Cuse ahead of them? MSU? I dunno.
K has essentially done (perhaps a little more than) what Rupp did... coach for 3 decades, win a million games, 4 titles... and he's gonna be like "here's the keys, don't **** up my ****." and he's not done.
K has essentially done (perhaps a little more than) what Rupp did... coach for 3 decades, win a million games, 4 titles... and he's gonna be like "here's the keys, don't **** up my ****." and he's not done.
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that's enough talk about Duke and K for me, btw... **** them.
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he should of been fired last year and the reeves nelson story UCLA had everything they wanted to fire him, he sold everyone on this recuiting class turning UCLA around. and he failed
this years recuriting class it avg at best
he has lost 11 players over the last 5 years
josh smith
tyler lamb
drew gordon
chace stanback
mike moser
J'mison Morgan
matt Carlino
De'andre parker
brendan lane
anthony Stover
Reeves nelson
dacomeup
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Of course, as long as K is there Duke is a top program. I'm not really disputing the accolades of K or the program, as they speak for itself. But now that I'm really thinking about K's coaching tree and all of the different options that they have, I think it does make sense to have them as an elite program. Just thinking if Collins or Wojo initially fail, they can turn to Snider, Amaker, Capel, Dawkins, or even Hurley. No reason that the program should lose name recognition. And if they don't want to choose any of these guys then they're at the point where they can open up their pockets to bring someone in. Sounds like a UCLA, UK, Kansas to me.
