The Official NBA PG Thread

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Uh I like Wall and he's got great potential because of his athleticism but let's not overrate what he's shown this season. He can't shoot, and he can't shoot 3's and it's very difficult to run a good offense when your point can't shoot three's.

He also commits a million turnovers, combine these two things no matter how good his passing is murders offenses.

Curry and Lawsons rookie years were better than Wall's, and let me tell you Wall most likely will fix these things, but to me for that position, Curry has potential to be every bit as good, I just think the GS situation hasn't really allowed him to develop. 
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Lawson's rookie year was better?  Really?  How am I overrating his rookie season when he's in ELITE company considering the #'s he has put up?  Also, I think Derrick Rose/Rondo do a "decent" job of running their respective offenses despite (rose, not so much anymore) having their limitations shooting.  That being said, I'm sure Wall will put in work this summer to improve his outside shooting.  Also, if you're gonna get on Wall for his high # of TOs, then you have to do the same for Curry.   I'm putting Wall over the both of them...easily.  
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Curry turnovers have to do with the pace GS plays at, his turn over rate is lower than Wall's.

I just don't see how this rookie year where he shot, 40/29/ with like 5 TO a game puts him in elite company, I understand that his athletic gifts make his cieling really high but I don't think he's been better than Lawson or Curry was.

and given how impactfull shooting is from the point gaurd position I think Curry has the potential to be every bit as good as wall.
 
Love the Wizards and Wall, but I'd agree that Lawson and Curry are ahead of him at this stage in their respective careers. And really, it's more a function of the fact that they're both ~3 years older than him than anything else. DJs,  Lawson is the goods, he's been a vital cog in the Nuggets rise, and has shown he can be a premier point man, regardless of sample size (his rookie season was underrated too). However, I'm of the opinion that Wall will be leapfrogging quite a few of the players in AMP's rankings by this point next season.

And Osh, there's no way you can say Curry has the potential to be every bit as good as Wall. Offense aside, Wall has the tools to be an elite defender, while Curry will likely be a pylon his whole career due to lack of lateral quickness. And Walls offense will be fine with some development, we've seen guys make huge leaps in offense during off-seasons. (KD, Rose, etc.) 
 
Love the Wizards and Wall, but I'd agree that Lawson and Curry are ahead of him at this stage in their respective careers. And really, it's more a function of the fact that they're both ~3 years older than him than anything else. DJs,  Lawson is the goods, he's been a vital cog in the Nuggets rise, and has shown he can be a premier point man, regardless of sample size (his rookie season was underrated too). However, I'm of the opinion that Wall will be leapfrogging quite a few of the players in AMP's rankings by this point next season.

And Osh, there's no way you can say Curry has the potential to be every bit as good as Wall. Offense aside, Wall has the tools to be an elite defender, while Curry will likely be a pylon his whole career due to lack of lateral quickness. And Walls offense will be fine with some development, we've seen guys make huge leaps in offense during off-seasons. (KD, Rose, etc.) 
 
I think we'll have to agree to disagree....as far as Lawson, I just don't think 30-35 games starting in a career of starting is enough to warrant being in that 2nd tier.

And Osh, there's no way you can say Curry has the potential to be every bit as good as Wall. Offense aside, Wall has the tools to be an elite defender, while Curry will likely be a pylon his whole career due to lack of lateral quickness. And Walls offense will be fine with some development, we've seen guys make huge leaps in offense during off-seasons. (KD, Rose, etc.)


agree w. this 100%
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree....as far as Lawson, I just don't think 30-35 games starting in a career of starting is enough to warrant being in that 2nd tier.

And Osh, there's no way you can say Curry has the potential to be every bit as good as Wall. Offense aside, Wall has the tools to be an elite defender, while Curry will likely be a pylon his whole career due to lack of lateral quickness. And Walls offense will be fine with some development, we've seen guys make huge leaps in offense during off-seasons. (KD, Rose, etc.)


agree w. this 100%
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Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Love the Wizards and Wall, but I'd agree that Lawson and Curry are ahead of him at this stage in their respective careers. And really, it's more a function of the fact that they're both ~3 years older than him than anything else. DJs,  Lawson is the goods, he's been a vital cog in the Nuggets rise, and has shown he can be a premier point man, regardless of sample size (his rookie season was underrated too). However, I'm of the opinion that Wall will be leapfrogging quite a few of the players in AMP's rankings by this point next season.

And Osh, there's no way you can say Curry has the potential to be every bit as good as Wall. Offense aside, Wall has the tools to be an elite defender, while Curry will likely be a pylon his whole career due to lack of lateral quickness. And Walls offense will be fine with some development, we've seen guys make huge leaps in offense during off-seasons. (KD, Rose, etc.) 
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I believe point guard is the least valuable defensive position on the court.

I believe for the most part that people who are terrible shooters, stay terrible shooters, is it likely that wall will be terrible his whole career? No, but it is less likely that he suddenly becomes a deadly shooter.

Having a guy who can shoot like Curry can at the point guard position is just so incredibly valuable for an offense that if he got in the right situation where the ball was in his hands more often he could be a Nash like player. (IE TRADE MONTA ELLIS)


To me John Walls defensive potential is way higher but I believe Curry's offensive potential is just as great.
 
Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Love the Wizards and Wall, but I'd agree that Lawson and Curry are ahead of him at this stage in their respective careers. And really, it's more a function of the fact that they're both ~3 years older than him than anything else. DJs,  Lawson is the goods, he's been a vital cog in the Nuggets rise, and has shown he can be a premier point man, regardless of sample size (his rookie season was underrated too). However, I'm of the opinion that Wall will be leapfrogging quite a few of the players in AMP's rankings by this point next season.

And Osh, there's no way you can say Curry has the potential to be every bit as good as Wall. Offense aside, Wall has the tools to be an elite defender, while Curry will likely be a pylon his whole career due to lack of lateral quickness. And Walls offense will be fine with some development, we've seen guys make huge leaps in offense during off-seasons. (KD, Rose, etc.) 
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I believe point guard is the least valuable defensive position on the court.

I believe for the most part that people who are terrible shooters, stay terrible shooters, is it likely that wall will be terrible his whole career? No, but it is less likely that he suddenly becomes a deadly shooter.

Having a guy who can shoot like Curry can at the point guard position is just so incredibly valuable for an offense that if he got in the right situation where the ball was in his hands more often he could be a Nash like player. (IE TRADE MONTA ELLIS)


To me John Walls defensive potential is way higher but I believe Curry's offensive potential is just as great.
 
Nash is Nash because he can shoot like no other, but also because he can pass. Curry is not a great passer, he doesn't have natural court vision, and despite having two offensive threats in Ellis and Lee, he posted an assist to turnover rate under two, and a mediocre assist rate. John Wall does have natural court vision, and while having a similar usage rate to Curry, he put up significantly better passing numbers, all the while playing with a pack of morons on offense.

There's no way Curry's shooting makes his potential greater than Wall's, when there is a significant difference in their potential defense, passing, rebounding, etc. Defense is still the biggest difference though, PG may be the least valuable defensive position in your opinion, but in a PG heavy league, it's quite important. Also, Curry will never be the match-up problem Wall will be, and the inherent value in that can't be overstated.
 
Nash is Nash because he can shoot like no other, but also because he can pass. Curry is not a great passer, he doesn't have natural court vision, and despite having two offensive threats in Ellis and Lee, he posted an assist to turnover rate under two, and a mediocre assist rate. John Wall does have natural court vision, and while having a similar usage rate to Curry, he put up significantly better passing numbers, all the while playing with a pack of morons on offense.

There's no way Curry's shooting makes his potential greater than Wall's, when there is a significant difference in their potential defense, passing, rebounding, etc. Defense is still the biggest difference though, PG may be the least valuable defensive position in your opinion, but in a PG heavy league, it's quite important. Also, Curry will never be the match-up problem Wall will be, and the inherent value in that can't be overstated.
 
Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Nash is Nash because he can shoot like no other, but also because he can pass. Curry is not a great passer, he doesn't have natural court vision, and despite having two offensive threats in Ellis and Lee, he posted an assist to turnover rate under two, and a mediocre assist rate. John Wall does have natural court vision, and while having a similar usage rate to Curry, he put up significantly better passing numbers, all the while playing with a pack of morons on offense.

There's no way Curry's shooting makes his potential greater than Wall's, when there is a significant difference in their potential defense, passing, rebounding, etc. Defense is still the biggest difference though, PG may be the least valuable defensive position in your opinion, but in a PG heavy league, it's quite important. Also, Curry will never be the match-up problem Wall will be, and the inherent value in that can't be overstated.
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See I disagree, Curry shows flashes of great court vision, his assist rate is hampered by Monta Ellis and how much he has the ball in his hands he might as well be splitting point guard duties with Monta.  John Wall has the ball in his hands more than anyone at that team and thus can rack up more assists but GS is insistent upon not developing him and forcing him to play with Ellis.

I did not say his potential is greater, I just said it's just as immense, the value of that type of shooting from the PG position in particular cannot be overstated. Defense from PG's because of the fact that most of them use pick and rolls heavily, guarding them is much more of a team issue. You can be a great defensive PG, but unless you have an awesome defensive PF/C you will be shredded most times.

Curry best skill is maybe the most valuable PG skill.
Wall best skill is probably the least valuable PG skill.
 
Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Nash is Nash because he can shoot like no other, but also because he can pass. Curry is not a great passer, he doesn't have natural court vision, and despite having two offensive threats in Ellis and Lee, he posted an assist to turnover rate under two, and a mediocre assist rate. John Wall does have natural court vision, and while having a similar usage rate to Curry, he put up significantly better passing numbers, all the while playing with a pack of morons on offense.

There's no way Curry's shooting makes his potential greater than Wall's, when there is a significant difference in their potential defense, passing, rebounding, etc. Defense is still the biggest difference though, PG may be the least valuable defensive position in your opinion, but in a PG heavy league, it's quite important. Also, Curry will never be the match-up problem Wall will be, and the inherent value in that can't be overstated.
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See I disagree, Curry shows flashes of great court vision, his assist rate is hampered by Monta Ellis and how much he has the ball in his hands he might as well be splitting point guard duties with Monta.  John Wall has the ball in his hands more than anyone at that team and thus can rack up more assists but GS is insistent upon not developing him and forcing him to play with Ellis.

I did not say his potential is greater, I just said it's just as immense, the value of that type of shooting from the PG position in particular cannot be overstated. Defense from PG's because of the fact that most of them use pick and rolls heavily, guarding them is much more of a team issue. You can be a great defensive PG, but unless you have an awesome defensive PF/C you will be shredded most times.

Curry best skill is maybe the most valuable PG skill.
Wall best skill is probably the least valuable PG skill.
 
Good thing I didn't start a pointless argument with AMP over Tyreke again. Would get killed by the OSH dude. Lol.

Its a subjective list anyways. Brooks ain't no vet.
 
Good thing I didn't start a pointless argument with AMP over Tyreke again. Would get killed by the OSH dude. Lol.

Its a subjective list anyways. Brooks ain't no vet.
 
It's my list, dude you can write whatever you want about 'Reke I may object but doesn't mean I'm right or your wrong. And your right on Brooks, didn't really know where to place dude since he is 26, dude is what he is at this point of his career, can't see him getting much better. Not a fan of his.
 
It's my list, dude you can write whatever you want about 'Reke I may object but doesn't mean I'm right or your wrong. And your right on Brooks, didn't really know where to place dude since he is 26, dude is what he is at this point of his career, can't see him getting much better. Not a fan of his.
 
Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Nash is Nash because he can shoot like no other, but also because he can pass. Curry is not a great passer, he doesn't have natural court vision, and despite having two offensive threats in Ellis and Lee, he posted an assist to turnover rate under two, and a mediocre assist rate. John Wall does have natural court vision, and while having a similar usage rate to Curry, he put up significantly better passing numbers, all the while playing with a pack of morons on offense.

There's no way Curry's shooting makes his potential greater than Wall's, when there is a significant difference in their potential defense, passing, rebounding, etc. Defense is still the biggest difference though, PG may be the least valuable defensive position in your opinion, but in a PG heavy league, it's quite important. Also, Curry will never be the match-up problem Wall will be, and the inherent value in that can't be overstated.
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See I disagree, Curry shows flashes of great court vision, his assist rate is hampered by Monta Ellis and how much he has the ball in his hands he might as well be splitting point guard duties with Monta.  John Wall has the ball in his hands more than anyone at that team and thus can rack up more assists but GS is insistent upon not developing him and forcing him to play with Ellis.

I did not say his potential is greater, I just said it's just as immense, the value of that type of shooting from the PG position in particular cannot be overstated. Defense from PG's because of the fact that most of them use pick and rolls heavily, guarding them is much more of a team issue. You can be a great defensive PG, but unless you have an awesome defensive PF/C you will be shredded most times.

Curry best skill is maybe the most valuable PG skill.
Wall best skill is probably the least valuable PG skill.
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They use the same amount of possessions (according to bballref, Curry uses more) so your first excuse for Curry's lack of assists compared to Wall is flawed. And you conveniently didn't address the fact that Wall is getting those numbers while playing with inept offensive players.
It's your opinion that Curry's potential is on par with Wall's, and I doubt we'll change each other's mind, but your case is rather weak. You keep referencing Nash as a parallel, and that's all well and good, but some of the greatest PGs of all time weren't great shooters. (Magic, Isiah, Kidd, Payton, etc) Once again, Nash is such an offensive force because of his passing and shooting. You really can't say which skill is more valuable to his success, and Curry has only really displayed his shooting consistently.

Wall's best skill is his ability to beat defenders and get to the basket, and his second is his vision/awareness. I'd argue that those are the two most valuable PG skills.
 
Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Nash is Nash because he can shoot like no other, but also because he can pass. Curry is not a great passer, he doesn't have natural court vision, and despite having two offensive threats in Ellis and Lee, he posted an assist to turnover rate under two, and a mediocre assist rate. John Wall does have natural court vision, and while having a similar usage rate to Curry, he put up significantly better passing numbers, all the while playing with a pack of morons on offense.

There's no way Curry's shooting makes his potential greater than Wall's, when there is a significant difference in their potential defense, passing, rebounding, etc. Defense is still the biggest difference though, PG may be the least valuable defensive position in your opinion, but in a PG heavy league, it's quite important. Also, Curry will never be the match-up problem Wall will be, and the inherent value in that can't be overstated.
Click to expand...

See I disagree, Curry shows flashes of great court vision, his assist rate is hampered by Monta Ellis and how much he has the ball in his hands he might as well be splitting point guard duties with Monta.  John Wall has the ball in his hands more than anyone at that team and thus can rack up more assists but GS is insistent upon not developing him and forcing him to play with Ellis.

I did not say his potential is greater, I just said it's just as immense, the value of that type of shooting from the PG position in particular cannot be overstated. Defense from PG's because of the fact that most of them use pick and rolls heavily, guarding them is much more of a team issue. You can be a great defensive PG, but unless you have an awesome defensive PF/C you will be shredded most times.

Curry best skill is maybe the most valuable PG skill.
Wall best skill is probably the least valuable PG skill.
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They use the same amount of possessions (according to bballref, Curry uses more) so your first excuse for Curry's lack of assists compared to Wall is flawed. And you conveniently didn't address the fact that Wall is getting those numbers while playing with inept offensive players.
It's your opinion that Curry's potential is on par with Wall's, and I doubt we'll change each other's mind, but your case is rather weak. You keep referencing Nash as a parallel, and that's all well and good, but some of the greatest PGs of all time weren't great shooters. (Magic, Isiah, Kidd, Payton, etc) Once again, Nash is such an offensive force because of his passing and shooting. You really can't say which skill is more valuable to his success, and Curry has only really displayed his shooting consistently.

Wall's best skill is his ability to beat defenders and get to the basket, and his second is his vision/awareness. I'd argue that those are the two most valuable PG skills.
 
He'll never be a great shooter but you don't think he can get to Derrick Rose's level? Rose couldn't shoot coming into the league and his jumpshot is serviceable now. I see no reason why he can't improve that.

Point Guard is really the least valuable defensive position...? With the amount of great point guards I would think it would be one of the most important.
 
He'll never be a great shooter but you don't think he can get to Derrick Rose's level? Rose couldn't shoot coming into the league and his jumpshot is serviceable now. I see no reason why he can't improve that.

Point Guard is really the least valuable defensive position...? With the amount of great point guards I would think it would be one of the most important.
 
Not a fan of Lawson.

He's a good point guard but his ceiling isn't that high. Solid second tier player, definitely not elite status.
 
Not a fan of Lawson.

He's a good point guard but his ceiling isn't that high. Solid second tier player, definitely not elite status.
 
Originally Posted by SCuse7

He'll never be a great shooter but you don't think he can get to Derrick Rose's level? Rose couldn't shoot coming into the league and his jumpshot is serviceable now. I see no reason why he can't improve that.

Point Guard is really the least valuable defensive position...? With the amount of great point guards I would think it would be one of the most important.
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i like to look at numbers but the eye test is critical as well. Rose was never known for his jumpshot but he always took it even though he missed a lot ... he shooting motion was solid ... 
when i watched wall ... i saw someone with no confidence in being left open ... i would compare him to rondo ... i was watching him at the restricted circle at the wizards game this year against the hawks and he was wide open on a rebound and shot a brick ... it was one of the worst attempts i've seen in my life .... i hope the kid works on it ... i hope it's just confidence ... he's only a rookie so he has time ... 

wall doesn't get mentioned on my list and he shouldn't be on anyone's right now ... 1 year in .. give him time to grow 
 
Originally Posted by SCuse7

He'll never be a great shooter but you don't think he can get to Derrick Rose's level? Rose couldn't shoot coming into the league and his jumpshot is serviceable now. I see no reason why he can't improve that.

Point Guard is really the least valuable defensive position...? With the amount of great point guards I would think it would be one of the most important.
Click to expand...

i like to look at numbers but the eye test is critical as well. Rose was never known for his jumpshot but he always took it even though he missed a lot ... he shooting motion was solid ... 
when i watched wall ... i saw someone with no confidence in being left open ... i would compare him to rondo ... i was watching him at the restricted circle at the wizards game this year against the hawks and he was wide open on a rebound and shot a brick ... it was one of the worst attempts i've seen in my life .... i hope the kid works on it ... i hope it's just confidence ... he's only a rookie so he has time ... 

wall doesn't get mentioned on my list and he shouldn't be on anyone's right now ... 1 year in .. give him time to grow 
 
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