What was Championship Era Michael Jordan's Worst Game Ever?

[ThaxbyChamblis]

What point are you three arguing? I'm confused

 

[nako xl]

literally his 6th season in the league.  i said "his first 6 seasons" off the top of my head and you pull up a stat showing he shot ok in his 6TH SEASON and that somehow discredits me?

He shot .200 combined, before that.

What are you arguing?  That me saying he was bad at three through the 80s/first half of his career was a lie?

and he was blowing by defenders to shoot midranges and, yes, dunk all over the place.  no one could check him.

but those bulls teams never faced a zone defense either. if you backed off jordan in those years he wasn't going to drain outside shots on you consistently.

just wow. Just have to stop arguing because we aren't arguing in the same lane at all.

please do.

 

[38816]

I asked who Jordan had playing with him, not Bron. Credit to MJ for getting up so many shots playing alongside bums is the point here.

And you threw one series out there that Jordan and the bulls STILL WON, with him being the dominant scorer...with a horrible argument. The Pacers were a bad team? lol


4 Travis Best
21 Etdrick Bohannon
44 Austin Croshere
33 Antonio Davis
32 Dale Davis
20 Fred Hoiberg
Mark Jackson
9 Derrick McKey
31 Reggie Miller
17 Chris Mullin
43 Mark Pope
5 Jalen Rose
45 Rik Smits
41 Mark West

you said he never almost lost.

which is incorrect.

you said dominant scorer? he scored 28 but didn't score for 7 minutes of the 4th quarter. sound's pretty lebron-like to me.

you can praise jordan for shooting the ball 2300 times cause of who he played with

but cant praise lebron for doing what he did alongside the looney tunes in real life?

next youll be posting the utah jazz players that jordan never almost lost to, too.

like tony parker, tim duncan and manu ginobli arent going to the HoF and didn't win more chips than all of the players on that list combined. like dirk doesnt have more rings than all the players you listed combined.


MY DUDE PUT AUSTIN CHROSHERE! LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO



you can credit jordan with shooting the ball 2300 times cause he played with bums

but allen iverson leading the NBA in scoring and taking his team to the finals, with his squad, is unimportant and forgettable?

the reason people bring up players more easily identifiable in arguments about players of past eras is to put things into perspective.

jordan was leading fast breaks after ripping the ball away from centers......and outran everyone on both teams to the opposite end of the court.

jordan NEVER had bad games? if he did they didn't matter? LMAO

Jordan is amazing for shooting it 2300 times, allen iverson is just pedestrian and selfish. LMAO

 

[38816]

What point are you three arguing? I'm confused

he's arguing that jordan never had any bad games ever, and when he did, they didn't matter.

he also never even barely lost games...none of them....ever.

i'd be shocked to find out jordan ever lost a game.

 

[nako xl]

What point are you three arguing? I'm confused

i asked what jordan's worst games were in people's opinions and why they're not discussed more.

a couple of people said jordan only had a few bad games in his entire career (

)

at some point it was mentioned that jordan couldn't shoot for much of his career and i cosigned the notion to support that he had more than a handful of atrocious shooting games where he'd just chuck and do nothing else productive.

at some point lebron was pulled into it? then it turned into a jordan is overrated thread?

While we're here, hey watch my music video

 

[38816]

at some point lebron was pulled into it? then it turned into a jordan is overrated thread? :\

jordan lost games? how could he be overrated? if anything, he's underrated.

 

[bonafide hustla]

silly arguments man. deterring to throw off the main point bro..wtf...

why did you point out austin croshere out of that list?

Why did you bring up Iverson? Iverson shot like barely 40%. it was clear his teams were heavily led by the defenses and the coaching.


dre, point im making is Jordan is the greatest to play the game. and Lebron isn't in the same conversation yet. He's not as good as Jordan was at this point in his career. Additionally, his bad games aren't memorable because at the end of the day he controlled every game in the championship era. And before that he was outputting at a similar or better rate than Lebron.

and my other point is im not discrediting Bron, he'll be considered a great and has years ahead of him. But don't slight how good MJ actually was

 

[bonafide hustla]

chill, we're talking about championship era 1990-1998 jordan in teh playoffs (at least thats what i thought based on the title). we're not talking about if he had bad games. literally EVER. Jordan never lost a series in the championship era and had full control of the games and delivered. regardless of however long it went. Lebron has...should be 2 now...major losses. he's not Jordan

 

[38816]

chill, we're talking about championship era 1990-1998 jordan in teh playoffs. we're not talking about EVER.

he played in tons of game 7s

jordan is most remembered for final second buzzer beaters for the win.

how is that never almost losing?

you made it seem like it was never even close.

the other teams were down by 30 every night.

OP asking why doesn't anybody remember jordan's bad games.

your answer is "because they didn't matter"

which is incorrect

its because there's some magical memory of jordan never playing bad ever.

same people having the same delusions of larry bird taking lebron off the dribble.....

and that iverson is a ball hog but jordan and kobe are great leaders and facilitators.

 

[bonafide hustla]

also enphan let me ask you this:

if you have a team full of bums why is heavily passing to them a better option than getting up your own shots if you're shooting them at a great rate (50%+)?

 

[38816]

also enphan let me ask you this:

if you have a team full of bums why is heavily passing to them a better option than getting up your own shots if you're shooting them at a great rate (50%+)?

so iverson should pass, but jordan was doing the right thing.

ok.


(i dont knock jordan for shooting it 2300 times, its hilarious to me that he's praised for it while AI is knocked for shooting it with pretty equally terrible teammates. its because of the 8% points give or take, right? i don't knock either player for shooting it and dominating the ball, the other players were garb. but there is a clear double standard.)

 

[bonafide hustla]

aight so lets get this thread back on track


go ahead and list all of the bad games. the stats are readily available on the internet. probably compiled somewhere already?

 

[bonafide hustla]

so iverson should pass, but jordan was doing the right thing.

ok.

YES because if he's shooting it at a 40% rate its not a good shot, plus iverson was averaging 4 and 5 assists...up to 7 in his BEST years assisting.

Jordan was shooting at 50+% and also averaging similar if not more assists...rebounding, playing lockup D, etcetera etcetera

 

[galaxynexus]

What stats show that Foster and Dudley are the top rebounders in NBA history?

What stats show David Lee, Tyrone Hill etc over Hakeem, KG and SHaq?

Wait did you really try to compare the statistically advantages Bird has over Lebron to those guys?

Yes Bird was better skill wise than KD and Lebron, he's not as athletic

How's Bird an overrated 3 point shooter?

Do you realize the 3 point shot was introduced to the NBA his rookie year? The 3 point shot was used way different than it is now

Of course Curry is going his more 3 pointers than Bird because he shoots it way way more than Bird ever did.

Rebound rate, the only statistic that isn't affected by huge variabilities in game pace across different eras. Do I agree with Jeff Foster and Chris Dudley being top 9 in anything: of course not. But that's the point I'm making, stats can be deceiving. 

How is Bird NOT an overrated 3 point shooter? Curry shoots way more 3s than Bird, sure...but he also shoots them at a MUCH higher clip (45% to 38%). While I'm on it, I'll put it out there: VINCE CARTER has a higher career 3pt% than Larry Bird. I'm sure that'll surprise some people. But please keep saying how Bird barely shot it. Doesn't that make the Vince Carter fact even more appalling?

Look, it's like when I argue Calvin Johnson >> some WRs from the 80s, 90s. Looking at it from a purely skill perspective, it's no match in some cases. You can bring up as many stats as you want but there are certain things (level of competition for one) which need to be considered. Again, it's NO knock on any WR from the 90s or any SF from the 80s - Calvin Johnson & LeBron are just that dominant and would dominate any era. To disagree is just unfathomable. 

Waits for someone to say Ronnie Lott would kill Calvin Johnson and his unborn kids or that Dennis Rodman would frustrate LeBron into 1-23984 games. You guys can stick to hypotheticals while I'll go off tangible things and game tape + quotes from players who have played the game and have witnessed LeBron's skills/dominance in relation to a Bird, etc.

 

[38816]

YES because if he's shooting it at a 40% rate its not a good shot, plus iverson was averaging 4 and 5 assists...up to 7 in his BEST years assisting.

Jordan was shooting at 50+% and also averaging similar if not more assists...rebounding, playing lockup D, etcetera etcetera

that has nothing to do with labeling iverson a ball hog

but praising jordan for the exact same thing.

you don't read well, huh?

 

[38816]

aight so lets get this thread back on track


go ahead and list all of the bad games. the stats are readily available on the internet. probably compiled somewhere already?

OP ALREADY LISTED AT LEAST 3 GAME LINES. YOU'VE IGNORED THEM. LMAO

 

[38816]

Calvin Johnson & LeBron are just that dominant and would dominate any era. To disagree is just unfathomable. 

*waits for people to ask why you're derailing the topic by mentioning calvin johnson*


Kevin Durant would be a 6'10" guard no matter what era he was born in. he has a crossover and a jumper. LMAO

what kinda workouts and diet would change that?

 

[bonafide hustla]

i think someone should just compile the bad MJ championship era playoff stats first and then let this thread prosper



go to basketball-reference.com, organize the game logs for the playoffs and start with compiling the losses. gave you a tip, but lets see what yall come up with. Im here to be educated

 

[bonafide hustla]

that has nothing to do with labeling iverson a ball hog

but praising jordan for the exact same thing.

you don't read well, huh?

???????????

 

[bonafide hustla]

wait, are these the bad games?

yall are making more sense to me now,


Game 4 96 Finals against Seattle. 6/19, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 turnovers, 23 points.

Game 4 97 Finals against Utah. 11/17, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 turnovers, 22 points.

Game 4 98 Conference Finals against Indiana, 12/27, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 6 turnovers, 28 points.

Game 6 92 Conference Semi-Finals against New York, 9/25, 4 rebounds 8 assists, 7 turnovers, 21 points.

Game 2 92 Conference Finals against Cleveland, 7/22, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 6 turnovers, 20 points.

Game 5 of the 1996 Finals: 26 points (only 11/22 shooting), 4 rebounds, 1 assist. Game 6 wasn't pretty either, scoring wise (22 points on 5/19 from the field).

 

[mister friendly]

I bet race plays into the concept of birds rebounding prowess(or alleged lackthereof) vs lebrons.

Maybe, but lebron is a wing ball handler who spends the majority of the game at the top of the perimeter and he's still averaged only 3.5 less rebounds a game than Bird.

Factor in that Bird played in an era where each team averaged 20+ more possessions a game than the current NBA teams do and to sit there and say Bird was a better rebounder than Lebron is just plain wrong.

If you believe that then you probably think Oscar Robertson would really average the type of numbers he did today too.

Dude how do you think Larry Bird played? Do you think Bird was playing center and just sitting in the restricted area all game when he had McHale. Parish and Walton?

How could Bird average 6 to 7 assists a game if he wasn't handling the ball on the wing alot?

How could he shoot 3 pointers if he was never on the wing?

You want to talk about pace? Then how do you explain how Bird has a higher rebounding percentage then?

You can't

Simply put Bird was better rebounder

 

[sea manup]

I bet race plays into the concept of birds rebounding prowess(or alleged lackthereof) vs lebrons.

Maybe, but lebron is a wing ball handler who spends the majority of the game at the top of the perimeter and he's still averaged only 3.5 less rebounds a game than Bird.

Factor in that Bird played in an era where each team averaged 20+ more possessions a game than the current NBA teams do and to sit there and say Bird was a better rebounder than Lebron is just plain wrong.

If you believe that then you probably think Oscar Robertson would really average the type of numbers he did today too.

Dude how do you think Larry Bird played? Do you think Bird was playing center and just sitting in the restricted area all game when he had McHale. Parish and Walton?

How could Bird average 6 to 7 assists a game if he wasn't handling the ball on the wing alot?

How could he shoot 3 pointers if he was never on the wing?

You want to talk about pace? Then how do you explain how Bird has a higher rebounding percentage then?

You can't

Simply put Bird was better rebounder

people dont want to listen to any pro-bird arguments because of how unbasketball player like he looks, acting like he played in the 1940s and not winning 3 MVPs in a row in the same league as jordan and magic.

 

[mister friendly]

What stats show that Foster and Dudley are the top rebounders in NBA history?


What stats show David Lee, Tyrone Hill etc over Hakeem, KG and SHaq?


Wait did you really try to compare the statistically advantages Bird has over Lebron to those guys?


Yes Bird was better skill wise than KD and Lebron, he's not as athletic


How's Bird an overrated 3 point shooter?


Do you realize the 3 point shot was introduced to the NBA his rookie year? The 3 point shot was used way different than it is now


Of course Curry is going his more 3 pointers than Bird because he shoots it way way more than Bird ever did.

Rebound rate, the only statistic that isn't affected by huge variabilities in game pace across different eras. Do I agree with Jeff Foster and Chris Dudley being top 9 in anything: of course not. But that's the point I'm making, stats can be deceiving. 

How is Bird NOT an overrated 3 point shooter? Curry shoots way more 3s than Bird, sure...but he also shoots them at a MUCH higher clip (45% to 38%). While I'm on it, I'll put it out there: VINCE CARTER has a higher career 3pt% than Larry Bird. I'm sure that'll surprise some people. But please keep saying how Bird barely shot it. Doesn't that make the Vince Carter fact even more appalling?


.

In regards to Foster and Dudley you are using the stat in the wrong way.

The stat is used to account for pace and show how a player grabbed the available rebounds while they were on the floor.

Foster and Dudley were good rebounder but they didnt play as many minutes as the guys they are rated higher than, its comparable to saying Mark West is 4th best shooter of all time when he didn't shoot near as much as Kareem did. You know that.

How does Curry shooting 45 percentage make Bird a overrated 3 point shooter?

Jon Sundvold shot 52 for 3 point percentage one season does that make Curry single season's best of 45 percentage, overrated? No

Is Curry is better 3 point shooter than Bird? Probably so but he grew up with the shot, Bird didnt

Like I said earlier the 3 point shot was introduced in the NBA , Larry Bird's rookie year. Do you think players are going to master the 3 point shot instantly?

Do you realize out of the top 100 individual seasons for 3 point percentage only 7 of those seasons happened in the 1980s? And the majority of those are in the late 1980s.

So were all the players from back then bad 3 point shooters? No.....they didn't grow up with the shot, so they had to adopt their games for it.

Does that mean the good 3 point shooters from 1980s overrated?....no

 

[mister friendly]

I bet race plays into the concept of birds rebounding prowess(or alleged lackthereof) vs lebrons.

Maybe, but lebron is a wing ball handler who spends the majority of the game at the top of the perimeter and he's still averaged only 3.5 less rebounds a game than Bird.


Factor in that Bird played in an era where each team averaged 20+ more possessions a game than the current NBA teams do and to sit there and say Bird was a better rebounder than Lebron is just plain wrong.


If you believe that then you probably think Oscar Robertson would really average the type of numbers he did today too.

Dude how do you think Larry Bird played? Do you think Bird was playing center and just sitting in the restricted area all game when he had McHale. Parish and Walton?


How could Bird average 6 to 7 assists a game if he wasn't handling the ball on the wing alot?


How could he shoot 3 pointers if he was never on the wing?


You want to talk about pace? Then how do you explain how Bird has a higher rebounding percentage then?


You can't


Simply put Bird was better rebounder

people dont want to listen to any pro-bird arguments because of how unbasketball player like he looks, acting like he played in the 1940s and not winning 3 MVPs in a row in the same league as jordan and magic.

Yep!

People need to go look at Bird stats, they are crazy!

He was a 40-50-90 guy while shooting 20 times a game, leading his team in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks

 

[doyung9]

You guys are arguing opinions.

End of the day, you're either a Jordan guy or a LeBron guy. Some people really believe LeBron (career unfinished) is the best ever. And if that's you, great. I understand. If you'd be creating a video game player, he's who you'd want. Gotcha.

Myself, I don't feel the same way. I'm a Jordan guy. And we can use stats, which are on paper, and you can talk about Jordan's early career outside shooting, field goal %, whatever. If you want to do the on paper thing, IN MY OPINION, 1 stat counts.

6 for 6, 100%. We all know what I'm referencing.

I'm not saying that's how you should view it, I'm just saying, that's how I view it. Until someone else finishes their career, unblemished in the finals, at such a consistent clip, then I can't view them as any higher than #2. I really don't know who I'd put at #2. I actually believe Jordan was a better basketball player in his prime than LeBron James is today, but analysis of individuals is strictly subjective.

Just my two cents.

LeBron is great. Not arguing that. Just wanted to chime in.