What was Championship Era Michael Jordan's Worst Game Ever?

[galaxynexus]

Bingo!

All the people I told to go look up Larry Bird, have either shut up or refused to look up the stats

Actually no, it's past midnight in my time zone so I obviously don't have the luxury like you do to respond that quickly

The stats also show that Jeff Foster & Chris Dudley are 2 of the top 9 rebounders in NBA history. Surely, you don't agree with such stats. David Lee over KG? Tyrone Hill over Hakeem, Shaq, etc? Is this really the road you want to go down?

The problem with stats is just that - that's all they really are. Stats don't account for LeBron's speed, agility, vertical, or physical dominance - again, in the most impressive athletic era the NBA has ever seen (mostly due to training, genetics, etc). Players today are just more athletic and again, it's NO knock against the players that paved the way. 

Let me ask you this - do you think Larry Bird is better skill wise than Kevin Durant or LeBron James? Kevin Durant jumps higher than Jordan, shoots better than Bird, and is guard quick. If there was a player that came before KD that we could compare him to, we wouldn't gush over him so much. Same goes for LeBron, D-Rose, etc. Same goes for MJ, Pippen, D-Rob, etc. There are just some players whose athletic gifts just allow them to do what they want in any era.

And please don't misconstrue my statement that LeBron is superior to Bird as somehow me saying Bird is a bad or common player; I realize his place amongst the greats but what we're seeing with LeBron is unprecedented. LeBron's highlight reel of just blocks is all you really need to see to understand why he's such a once in a lifetime/generation talent.

And Bird was an overrated 3pt shooter. In 4 seasons, Curry has 640 3s. In Bird's entire career spanning 13 seasons, he hit 649. Really? He was not one of the best 3pt shooters, he was FAR from it. Vince Carter has a higher career 3pt fg % than your man. Again, it's no knock - we're just being honest here.

</end anti-revisionist history rant>

 

[yeeupp]

Melo ball.

 

[mister friendly]

Bingo!


All the people I told to go look up Larry Bird, have either shut up or refused to look up the stats

Actually no, it's past midnight in my time zone so I obviously don't have the luxury like you do to respond that quickly

The stats also show that Jeff Foster & Chris Dudley are 2 of the top 9 rebounders in NBA history. Surely, you don't agree with such stats. David Lee over KG? Tyrone Hill over Hakeem, Shaq, etc? Is this really the road you want to go down?

The problem with stats is just that - that's all they really are. Stats don't account for LeBron's speed, agility, vertical, or physical dominance - again, in the most impressive athletic era the NBA has ever seen (mostly due to training, genetics, etc). Players today are just more athletic and again, it's NO knock against the players that paved the way. 

Let me ask you this - do you think Larry Bird is better skill wise than Kevin Durant or LeBron James? Kevin Durant jumps higher than Jordan, shoots better than Bird, and is guard quick. If there was a player that came before KD that we could compare him to, we wouldn't gush over him so much. Same goes for LeBron, D-Rose, etc. Same goes for MJ, Pippen, D-Rob, etc. There are just some players whose athletic gifts just allow them to do what they want in any era.

And please don't misconstrue my statement that LeBron is superior to Bird as somehow me saying Bird is a bad or common player; I realize his place amongst the greats but what we're seeing with LeBron is unprecedented. LeBron's highlight reel of just blocks is all you really need to see to understand why he's such a once in a lifetime/generation talent.

And Bird was an overrated 3pt shooter. In 4 seasons, Curry has 640 3s. In Bird's entire career spanning 13 seasons, he hit 649. Really? He was not one of the best 3pt shooters, he was FAR from it. Vince Carter has a higher career 3pt fg % than your man. Again, it's no knock - we're just being honest here.

anti-revisionist history rant>

What stats show that Foster and Dudley are the top rebounders in NBA history?

What stats show David Lee, Tyrone Hill etc over Hakeem, KG and SHaq?

Wait did you really try to compare the statistically advantages Bird has over Lebron to those guys?

Yes Bird was better skill wise than KD and Lebron, he's not as athletic

How's Bird an overrated 3 point shooter?

Do you realize the 3 point shot was introduced to the NBA his rookie year? The 3 point shot was used way different than it is now

Of course Curry is going his more 3 pointers than Bird because he shoots it way way more than Bird ever did.

 

[nako xl]

I bet race plays into the concept of birds rebounding prowess(or alleged lackthereof) vs lebrons.

Maybe, but lebron is a wing ball handler who spends the majority of the game at the top of the perimeter and he's still averaged only 3.5 less rebounds a game than Bird.

Factor in that Bird played in an era where each team averaged 20+ more possessions a game than the current NBA teams do and to sit there and say Bird was a better rebounder than Lebron is just plain wrong.

If you believe that then you probably think Oscar Robertson would really average the type of numbers he did today too.

 

[nako xl]

Bingo!


All the people I told to go look up Larry Bird, have either shut up or refused to look up the stats

Actually no, it's past midnight in my time zone so I obviously don't have the luxury like you do to respond that quickly

The stats also show that Jeff Foster & Chris Dudley are 2 of the top 9 rebounders in NBA history. Surely, you don't agree with such stats. David Lee over KG? Tyrone Hill over Hakeem, Shaq, etc? Is this really the road you want to go down?

The problem with stats is just that - that's all they really are. Stats don't account for LeBron's speed, agility, vertical, or physical dominance - again, in the most impressive athletic era the NBA has ever seen (mostly due to training, genetics, etc). Players today are just more athletic and again, it's NO knock against the players that paved the way. 

Let me ask you this - do you think Larry Bird is better skill wise than Kevin Durant or LeBron James? Kevin Durant jumps higher than Jordan, shoots better than Bird, and is guard quick. If there was a player that came before KD that we could compare him to, we wouldn't gush over him so much. Same goes for LeBron, D-Rose, etc. Same goes for MJ, Pippen, D-Rob, etc. There are just some players whose athletic gifts just allow them to do what they want in any era.

And please don't misconstrue my statement that LeBron is superior to Bird as somehow me saying Bird is a bad or common player; I realize his place amongst the greats but what we're seeing with LeBron is unprecedented. LeBron's highlight reel of just blocks is all you really need to see to understand why he's such a once in a lifetime/generation talent.

And Bird was an overrated 3pt shooter. In 4 seasons, Curry has 640 3s. In Bird's entire career spanning 13 seasons, he hit 649. Really? He was not one of the best 3pt shooters, he was FAR from it. Vince Carter has a higher career 3pt fg % than your man. Again, it's no knock - we're just being honest here.
 

What stats show that Foster and Dudley are the top rebounders in NBA history?

What stats show David Lee, Tyrone Hill etc over Hakeem, KG and SHaq?

Wait did you really try to compare the statistically advantages Bird has over Lebron to those guys?

Yes Bird was better skill wise than KD and Lebron, he's not as athletic

How's Bird an overrated 3 point shooter?

Do you realize the 3 point shot was introduced to the NBA his rookie year? The 3 point shot was used way different than it is now

Of course Curry is going his more 3 pointers than Bird because he shoots it way way more than Bird ever did.

Larry Bird is more SKILLED than KD or Lebron??????

Skilled at what?

And here's the flaw with this argument: "Of course Curry is going his more 3 pointers than Bird because he shoots it way way more than Bird ever did."  The reason he hits more than Bird is because he shoots it better than Bird. If Bird had the shot like Curry does he would utilize it more.

"Jordan shot .132 percent from 3, but he took less than 100."  So??? He shot less than 100 because he sucked at it.  He attempted 53 shots and made 7.  If he shot 100 he'd make 13 or 14.

Shaq spent his entire career shooting less than 100 threes a season too.  Because it wasn't a weapon of his.  Stephen Curry has less than 100 post up attempts in the past season because it's not a weapon.  I'm sure Curry can shoot a turn around from the block, but that doesn't mean it's effective.  Same way Jordan could chuck up a three and pray that it would go in.  He didn't shoot the shot a lot because he couldn't.

Layy Bird can't shoot like KD, isn't as fast or strong or explosive as Lebron, and wouldn't be able to guard either of them 1 on 1.  Go back and look at Lebron last year as he dropped 45 on the Celtics.  All 5 players on the court were staring at him.  They FORCED him to shoot jumpers and he made them.  Bird never faced that.

And going back to your, when did teams ever dare Jordan to shoot question, the answer is "The first 7 years of his career."  And most of the time from close to mid range he'd make u pay.  But Jordan had no outside shot.

This is what eventually happens when you dare Lebron to shoot:

(Game 7)

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

I really though this thread had a shot when it was created, and reading the 1st couple of posts.

How naive of me

 

[gllahone84]

LMAO LARRY BIRD

if larry bird played in 2013 his name would be adam morrison.

you countered my point about scoring and assists? where? with john stockton?

LEBRON LED THE HEAT TO BACK-TO-BACK CHAMPIONSHIPS WHILE LEADING THE TEAM IN SCORING, ASSISTS, REBOUNDS AND STEALS

AND YOU BRING UP JOHN STOCKTON TO COUNTER MY ARGUMENT?


LMAOOOO

you said scoring is the most important aspect of basketball, and you're wrong.

you prolly actually like t-mac.

 

[38816]

If nobody can "clamp" Lebron why was he looking like a role player in the 2011 Finals?

dirk played like a madman.

name the player that clamped him.

ill wait.

Dude I don't know what you are seeing in that youtube clip

You're seeing stuff, I wouldn't be surprised considering where your location is.

seeing stuff? i saw magic drop like 5 dimes in the first 4 minutes. i saw larry bird shoot 3 point shots with no 3 pointer....as a center.

i also saw larry bird play zero defense and was backcourt more than half of the time magic pushed.

but he would "lock" lebron

and take him off the dribble.

 

[38816]

I really though this thread had a shot when it was created, and reading the 1st couple of posts.

How naive of me

turned into a "I DONT LIKE LEBRON" post

 

[dmxfury]

The inherent flaw in comparing players of different is that they are compared with the skills/ability of their own era then just placed into the new one. It completely ignores either the limitations that would be placed on the current generation player going back in time or the advances for the past player being in today's world. Thus assumptions must be made and we get a never ending argument. Easiest to compare one to their own era and apply the results. So if you're the best defender in the 80s, I can only assume the advances in science would allow that to be true today as well. And the best player today would face physical limitations if he played in an earlier era but would probably still be one of the best players. No perfect way to compare

 

[nako xl]

I really though this thread had a shot when it was created, and reading the 1st couple of posts.

How naive of me

I'm sitting here like why do people keep talking about lebron and bird!?!?

i keep trying to tie bad jordan performances back into it and people shove me aside and yell about Bird's ballhandling prowess.

 

[bonafide hustla]

yall clowns are ******ed. yall are coming up with some very generalized statements on Jordan. i posted a link to the vids of all of Jordan's playoff performances. Go watch and stop using generalizations. Its clear yall didnt watch Jordan saying this random ish, lol.

What's sad is all these silly arguments are all predicated off defending Lebron. Nobody's saying Lebron isn't great he just aint on Jordan's level, period. I don't care about "the decision" or his hairline, none of this irrelevant ish that has little to do with his game. Go fight that angle with the haters. I'm no hater, just an objective fan of the game.


Jordan shot terrible from the 3? The years he shot bad, he was shooting like less than 60 threes in a season, so wtf. He didn't shoot threes and when he did it was at an EXTREMELY clutch rate....when he did put them up at a high attempt rate he shot them well. His percentages were comparable to Bron's. What a ridiculous argument to bring up.


Dude's said throw a zone at Jordan and see what would happen? What Jordan are you watching, entire defenses were predicated around Jordan. Here's Magic on tape saying the Bulls don't have as many weapons and all they have is Jordan. Dudes were running box and 1s on this man. His midrange was WET. He developed it to be that by 1990. He shot way more midrange yet still shot better FG % than Bron.

In the same video, Magic says he's teh best player to ever play the game and he played in the golden era of superstars. None of LeBron's peers are saying this about him. Just that he's the best in this current league.

Yall can throw all these random generalities and irrelevant statements out here, but I dont really respect your opinion more than Jordan's peers who played alongside him. And on top of that a stats argument is not separating Lebron from Jordan. Do your research instead of trying to be random media parrots.




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[38816]

2-21 to start the game?

never.

didn't you see how jordan dominated the monstarrs?


with only bum looney tunes on his team.......



LMAO @ 2300 shot attempts

magic was commentating most of jordan's games.

LMAO

 

[bonafide hustla]

I'm sitting here like why do people keep talking about lebron and bird!?!?

i keep trying to tie bad jordan performances back into it and people shove me aside and yell about Bird's ballhandling prowess.

It's because you don't really have a solid argument for bad games from Jordan. He had a few to pick at but they weren't meaningful which is why there wouldn't be any substance/meat (pause) to a thread trying to highlight Jordan's bad games.. especially after he hit 28..

And he wasn't shooting himself out of series. Once he hit 28 he was considered the best player to play the game and was dominant. Although I don't hate on his decision, Lebron teamed up with 2 other superstars to help hide a deficiency while accentuating his strengths. Great idea until that deficiency is highlighted by defenses and the other superstars aren't feeding off his strengths as much as we thought they would.

 

[nako xl]

I'm sitting here like why do people keep talking about lebron and bird!?!?

i keep trying to tie bad jordan performances back into it and people shove me aside and yell about Bird's ballhandling prowess.

It's because you don't really have a solid argument for bad games from Jordan. He had a few to pick at but they weren't meaningful which is why there wouldn't be any substance/meat (pause) to a thread trying to highlight Jordan's bad games.

. especially after he hit 28..

He went 2 for 21 to start a playoff game in the conference finals.

And kept shooting.

He didn't have a 3 point shot until he turned 30.

He didn't shoot a lot of them because he was bad at it. 

"He didn't shoot threes and when he did it was at an EXTREMELY clutch rate....when he did put them up at a high attempt rate he shot them well."

Your argument for why Jordan's numbers sucked back then is akin to saying, Shaq didn't shoot a lot of threes but when he did he made it.  No.  Shaq shot .500 from three one season too but like Shaq MJ didn't attempt the shot because he didn't have it in his arsenal.

In one of Jordan's best statistical seasons ever he went 7 for 53 from three on the season.

7 for 53!

These are facts.

7 for 53 isn't an example of someone not shooting enough to balance out the stat. It's an example of a player with no outside shot.  Look at his 3 point shooting his first 6 seasons.  He was awful from 3.  He started shooting more when he started to develop his range.

Go away with that "y'all don't watch the games nonsense."

 

[bonafide hustla]

2-21 to start the game?

never.

didn't you see how jordan dominated the monstarrs?


with only bum looney tunes on his team.......



LMAO @ 2300 shot attempts

magic was commentating most of jordan's games.

LMAO

|I

did you know who he had playing with him when he put up 2300 shot attempts? He still shot a higher FG % that year than Lebron in Lebron's highest shot attempt year ever.

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Ehhh it's ppl on all sides of the argument derailing the original topic at hand

 

[bonafide hustla]

He went 2 for 21 to start a playoff game in the conference finals.

And kept shooting.

He didn't have a 3 point shot until he turned 30.

He didn't shoot a lot of them because he was bad at it. 

"He didn't shoot threes and when he did it was at an EXTREMELY clutch rate....when he did put them up at a high attempt rate he shot them well."

Your argument for why Jordan's numbers sucked back then is akin to saying, Shaq didn't shoot a lot of threes but when he did he made it.  No.  Shaq shot .500 from three one season too but like Shaq MJ didn't attempt the shot because he didn't have it in his arsenal.

In one of Jordan's best statistical seasons ever he went 7 for 53 from three on the season.

7 for 53!

These are facts.

7 for 53 isn't an example of someone not shooting enough to balance out the stat. It's an example of a player with no outside shot.  Look at his 3 point shooting his first 6 seasons.  He was awful from 3.  He started shooting more when he started to develop his range.

Go away with that "y'all don't watch the games nonsense."

no fam, he shot like 38% from 3 when he was 26 putting up 245 attempts. I just posted the stats, why are you making up ish?

and yes 7 for 53. This is less than what some PF's shoot. He still shot the midrange at a high percentage. Fam, he put up like 3000+ points in these seasons. With people running box and 1s . No Pippen in the early days. He wasnt just dunking all over the place, where are the points coming from

 

[bonafide hustla]

Ehhh it's ppl on all sides of the argument derailing the original topic at hand

not to be a guerilla poster or some ish , but ill reiterate the reason is because you don't have much substance to an argument about Jordan's worst performances. They were very infrequent and meaningless. He never lost to a team like the Mavs in the championship era nor did he almost lose to a team like the spurs. it's just a pretty irrelevant topic. Whereas for guys like LeBron (who this thread is clearly inadvertently about) have some trip ups along the way.

Only trip up MJ had was playing another sport ha

 

[nako xl]

Ehhh it's ppl on all sides of the argument derailing the original topic at hand

Game 5 of the 98 playoffs against Utah Jordan had 28 points on 9 for 28 shooting (10-11 FTs, 0 for 2 from three.)

Karl Malone went 17 of 27 for 39 points in that game. 

 

[38816]

|I

did you know who he had playing with him when he put up 2300 shot attempts?

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jordan never almost lost?

you say his bad games were meaningless 30 years later LMAO

much like we'll be talking about meaningless games against san antonio.

how many game 7s did jordan play in?

went to the last second shot against utah.

LMAO

how did he hit last second shots for the win if he never almost lost?

LMAOOOOOO



"With Jordan back at the helm, the Bulls-Pacers seven-game series in the 1998 Eastern Conference Finals was one of the most dramatic series the Bulls endured during their run of six titles in the 1990s.

Six of the seven games were decided by 10 points or fewer, and Game 7 was no exception, with Chicago edging Indiana, behind 28 points and nine rebounds from Jordan. Even with Jordan’s point total, the future MVP had what could be considered an off night, shooting 9-of-25 and failing to score from the field for the last 7 1/2 minutes.

The Pacers didn’t go out quietly, though, as Reggie Miller added 22 points, shooting 4-of-7 from behind the arc"

that's the pacers, bruh

THE PACERS

HE WENT 7 GAMES WITH THE PACERS LMAOOOOOO

 

[nako xl]

He went 2 for 21 to start a playoff game in the conference finals.

And kept shooting.

He didn't have a 3 point shot until he turned 30.

He didn't shoot a lot of them because he was bad at it. 

"He didn't shoot threes and when he did it was at an EXTREMELY clutch rate....when he did put them up at a high attempt rate he shot them well."

Your argument for why Jordan's numbers sucked back then is akin to saying, Shaq didn't shoot a lot of threes but when he did he made it.  No.  Shaq shot .500 from three one season too but like Shaq MJ didn't attempt the shot because he didn't have it in his arsenal.

In one of Jordan's best statistical seasons ever he went 7 for 53 from three on the season.

7 for 53!

These are facts.

7 for 53 isn't an example of someone not shooting enough to balance out the stat. It's an example of a player with no outside shot.  Look at his 3 point shooting his first 6 seasons.  He was awful from 3.  He started shooting more when he started to develop his range.

Go away with that "y'all don't watch the games nonsense."

no fam, he shot like 38% from 3 when he was 26 putting up 245 attempts. I just posted the stats, why are you making up ish?

and yes 7 for 53. This is less than what some PF's shoot. He still shot the midrange at a high percentage. Fam, he put up like 3000+ points in these seasons. With people running box and 1s

. No Pippen in the early days. He wasnt just dunking all over the place, where are the points coming from

literally his 6th season in the league.  i said "his first 6 seasons" off the top of my head and you pull up a stat showing he shot ok in his 6TH SEASON and that somehow discredits me?

He shot .200 combined, before that.

What are you arguing?  That me saying he was bad at three through the 80s/first half of his career was a lie?

and he was blowing by defenders to shoot midranges and, yes, dunk all over the place.  no one could check him.

but those bulls teams never faced a zone defense either. if you backed off jordan in those years he wasn't going to drain outside shots on you consistently.

 

[bonafide hustla]

jordan never almost lost?

you say his bad games were meaningless 30 years later LMAO

much like we'll be talking about meaningless games against san antonio.

how many game 7s did jordan play in?

went to the last second shot against utah.

LMAO

how did he hit last second shots for the win if he never almost lost?

LMAOOOOOO



"With Jordan back at the helm, the Bulls-Pacers seven-game series in the 1998 Eastern Conference Finals was one of the most dramatic series the Bulls endured during their run of six titles in the 1990s.

Six of the seven games were decided by 10 points or fewer, and Game 7 was no exception, with Chicago edging Indiana, behind 28 points and nine rebounds from Jordan. Even with Jordan’s point total, the future MVP had what could be considered an off night, shooting 9-of-25 and failing to score from the field for the last 7 1/2 minutes.

The Pacers didn’t go out quietly, though, as Reggie Miller added 22 points, shooting 4-of-7 from behind the arc"

that's the pacers, bruh

THE PACERS

HE WENT 7 GAMES WITH THE PACERS LMAOOOOOO

I asked who Jordan had playing with him, not Bron. Credit to MJ for getting up so many shots playing alongside bums is the point here.

And you threw one series out there that Jordan and the bulls STILL WON, with him being the dominant scorer...with a horrible argument. The Pacers were a bad team? lol


4 Travis Best
21 Etdrick Bohannon
44 Austin Croshere
33 Antonio Davis
32 Dale Davis
20 Fred Hoiberg
Mark Jackson
9 Derrick McKey
31 Reggie Miller
17 Chris Mullin
43 Mark Pope
5 Jalen Rose
45 Rik Smits
41 Mark West


Also, I will remember, forever, that teh spurs choked in 2013 after Bron shot terrible an entire series and turned the ball over twice in a row. This will stand out. The Spurs had control of the outcome. I dont remember a team choking against Jordan on such a grand stage. He had control of the game at all times. I'll also remember the Mavs handling these cats the year after "the decision". again no knock to the decision, but ill remember they took that L right off bat

 

[bonafide hustla]

literally his 6th season in the league.  i said "his first 6 seasons" off the top of my head and you pull up a stat showing he shot ok in his 6TH SEASON and that somehow discredits me?

He shot .200 combined, before that.

What are you arguing?  That me saying he was bad at three through the 80s/first half of his career was a lie?

and he was blowing by defenders to shoot midranges and, yes, dunk all over the place.  no one could check him.

but those bulls teams never faced a zone defense either. if you backed off jordan in those years he wasn't going to drain outside shots on you consistently.

just wow. Just have to stop arguing because we aren't arguing in the same lane at all.

 

[38816]

lets not get it twisted.

jordan scored buckets.

but he shot twice as much as anyone else on the court, too.

he always had a nice mid-range, but jordan shot the ball upwards of 40 times.....regularly...not once or twice a year....

often!

the only defense anyone could play on him was fouling him hard.

in the cavs series, they were double teaming him with their center and forward...the entire game...he would dribble around the trap before it set every time LMAO

can you imagine this type of defense being played today? you'd say the game was fixed.

yall praising rodman's lockdown defense, you can search youtube and find plenty of clips of him being aired out by even semi athletic 3s. Pippen used to feed on dennis rodman. i wonder why rodman played 4 in chicago. I WONDER WHY.

AND HE WASNT EVEN CHECKING JORDAN ANYWAY LMAO