Where does Gary Payton rank among the all time great point guards?

4,325
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Joined Sep 12, 2007
[h3]NBA highlights[/h3]
  • NBA Champion: 2006
  • 9-time NBA All-Star: 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003
  • 9-time All-NBA:
  • First Team: 1998, 2000
  • Second Team: 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2002
  • Third Team: 1994, 2001
  • 9-time All-Defensive First Team member: 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999*, 2000*, 2001, 2002 (shares record for selections with Michael Jordan)[sup][26][/sup][sup][27][/sup]
    • * Highest vote getter in 1999 and 2000[sup][28][/sup][sup][29][/sup], second highest in 1998[sup][30][/sup] and 2002[sup][27][/sup]
  • NBA Defensive Player of The Year: 1996 (only point guard ever to win the award, and only guard to win the award in the 1990s)
  • NBA All-Rookie Second Team: 1991
  • Led NBA in Assists: 1999-2000 (732)
  • Led NBA in Steals: 1995-96 (231)
  • Led NBA in Three-Pointers Made: 1999-2000 (177)
http://
[h3][edit] NBA milestones[/h3]
  • In NBA history (as of 18 April 2007):
  • ranks 21st in points (21,813) - passed Larry Bird (21,791) on March 26, 2007
  • ranks 7th in assists (8,966)
  • ranks 3rd in steals (2,445)
  • ranks 7th in minutes (47,117)
  • ranks 8th in games (1,335)
[table][tr][th=""]SEASON[/th] [th=""]TEAM[/th] [th=""]GP[/th] [th=""]GS[/th] [th=""]MPG[/th] [th=""]SPG[/th] [th=""]BPG[/th] [th=""]RPG[/th] [th=""]APG[/th] [th=""]PPG[/th] [/tr][tr][td]'90-91[/td] [td]Seattle[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]27.4[/td] [td]2.01[/td] [td]0.18[/td] [td]3.0[/td] [td]6.4[/td] [td]7.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'91-92[/td] [td]Seattle[/td] [td]81[/td] [td]79[/td] [td]31.5[/td] [td]1.81[/td] [td]0.26[/td] [td]3.6[/td] [td]6.2[/td] [td]9.4[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'92-93[/td] [td]Seattle[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]78[/td] [td]31.1[/td] [td]2.16[/td] [td]0.26[/td] [td]3.4[/td] [td]4.9[/td] [td]13.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'93-94[/td] [td]Seattle[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]35.1[/td] [td]2.29[/td] [td]0.23[/td] [td]3.3[/td] [td]6.0[/td] [td]16.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'94-95[/td] [td]Seattle[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]36.8[/td] [td]2.49[/td] [td]0.16[/td] [td]3.4[/td] [td]7.1[/td] [td]20.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'95-96[/td] [td]Seattle[/td] [td]81[/td] [td]81[/td] [td]39.0[/td] [td]2.85[/td] [td]0.23[/td] [td]4.2[/td] [td]7.5[/td] [td]19.3[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'96-97[/td] [td]Seattle[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]39.2[/td] [td]2.40[/td] [td]0.16[/td] [td]4.6[/td] [td]7.1[/td] [td]21.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'97-98[/td] [td]Seattle[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]38.4[/td] [td]2.26[/td] [td]0.22[/td] [td]4.6[/td] [td]8.3[/td] [td]19.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'98-99[/td] [td]Seattle[/td] [td]50[/td] [td]50[/td] [td]40.2[/td] [td]2.18[/td] [td]0.24[/td] [td]4.9[/td] [td]8.7[/td] [td]21.7[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'99-00[/td] [td]Seattle[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]41.8[/td] [td]1.87[/td] [td]0.22[/td] [td]6.5[/td] [td]8.9[/td] [td]24.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'00-01[/td] [td]Seattle[/td] [td]79[/td] [td]79[/td] [td]41.1[/td] [td]1.61[/td] [td]0.33[/td] [td]4.6[/td] [td]8.1[/td] [td]23.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'01-02[/td] [td]Seattle[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]40.3[/td] [td]1.60[/td] [td]0.32[/td] [td]4.8[/td] [td]9.0[/td] [td]22.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'02-03[/td] [td]Sea/Mil[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]40.1[/td] [td]1.66[/td] [td]0.25[/td] [td]4.2[/td] [td]8.3[/td] [td]20.4[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'03-04[/td] [td]LA Lakers[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]34.5[/td] [td]1.17[/td] [td]0.23[/td] [td]4.2[/td] [td]5.5[/td] [td]14.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'04-05[/td] [td]Boston[/td] [td]77[/td] [td]77[/td] [td]33.0[/td] [td]1.14[/td] [td]0.16[/td] [td]3.1[/td] [td]6.1[/td] [td]11.3[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'05-06[/td] [td]Miami[/td] [td]81[/td] [td]25[/td] [td]28.5[/td] [td]0.88[/td] [td]0.12[/td] [td]2.9[/td] [td]3.2[/td] [td]7.7[/td] [/tr][tr][td]'06-07[/td] [td]Miami[/td] [td]68[/td] [td]28[/td] [td]22.1[/td] [td]0.63[/td] [td]0.04[/td] [td]1.9[/td] [td]3.0[/td] [td]5.3[/td] [/tr][/table]
Top 5? Top 10? What are your guys' thoughts?
 
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Joined Aug 4, 2004
Top 5 would be a tough sell. Magic, Stockton, Isiah, and Oscar seem pretty much guaranteed in everyone's top 5. Cousy and Kidd come next on most (thoughnot all) of these "Top PG" lists.

The question is pretty much whether you think he's top 10. And sure, I'd agree with that.
 
6,886
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Joined Jul 14, 2003
Top 10 all time IMO.

In his prime he was an absolute beast. He was one of my favs to watch live in person just to watch the way he played his game. Got it done on both ends.

Payton used to eat dudes alive on the low block too.
 
21,154
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Joined Mar 13, 2004
In that top 10 for sure...top 5 may be pushing it....

best defender all-time at the 1...hands down.
 
4,325
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Joined Sep 12, 2007
I think most people consider Kidd to be a better PG than Payton. I would like to hear some reasons why. Kidd is the better passer, Payton was the better scorerand defender.

What also kind of turns me off about Kidd is how he bounced around from team to team during the prime of his career.
 
21,154
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Joined Mar 13, 2004
Originally Posted by FRANCHISE 55

I think most people consider Kidd to be a better PG than Payton. I would like to hear some reasons why. Kidd is the better passer, Payton was the better scorer and defender.

What also kind of turns me off about Kidd is how he bounced around from team to team during the prime of his career.

But you can flip that around on GP to the fact that he was essentiallly chasing a ring towards the end of his career....
 
2,165
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Joined Jul 11, 2002
Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by FRANCHISE 55

I think most people consider Kidd to be a better PG than Payton. I would like to hear some reasons why. Kidd is the better passer, Payton was the better scorer and defender.

What also kind of turns me off about Kidd is how he bounced around from team to team during the prime of his career.

But you can flip that around on GP to the fact that he was essentiallly chasing a ring towards the end of his career....
true , but payton towards the end of his career isn't what we are talking about.

payton was a sonic for his entire prime
 
4,325
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Joined Sep 12, 2007
But it was towards the END of his career. Kidd was on three teams during the PRIME of his career. Someone who people consider to be one of the best PGs of alltime was traded twice during the prime of his career.
 
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Top 10

Magic Johnson
John Stockton
Oscar Robertson
Jason Kidd
Walt Frazier
Gary Payton
Lenny Wilkens
Allen Iverson
Maurice Cheeks
Bob Cousy
 
3,668
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Joined Oct 5, 2007
If it wasn't for his defense, this thread wouldn't even exist. Since his defense was the best at the position, he's top 10 and probably on the lowend.
 
4,325
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Joined Sep 12, 2007
I don't get that logic. If it wasn't for Kidd's passing he wouldn't be considered one of the best. If Kobe wasn't a great scorer hewouldn't be considered one of the best.
 
6,886
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Joined Jul 14, 2003
What also kind of turns me off about Kidd is how he bounced around from team to team during the prime of his career.
I think there's some relevency to that.

Kidd was basically traded four times between the ages of 23-34. Certain things go into that obviously and being traded does not mean you arent producing. Butwould Magic have been traded like that? Stockton? Oscar? Isiah?

Magic? One team in 12 years before retiring
Isiah? One team in 13 years
Stockton? One team in 19 years
Payton? One team up to his 34th bday
Cousy? One team up to his 34th bday
Oscar? Two teams in 14 years

Point guards are the business in this league. Again, I dont think it means a whole lot.....but I think it plays somewhat a part. Kidd is a top playerever....but teams did dump him to go in another direction.

PHX prob dumped him just for this look alone:

 
8,527
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Joined Feb 28, 2007
Originally Posted by FRANCHISE 55

I think most people consider Kidd to be a better PG than Payton. I would like to hear some reasons why. Kidd is the better passer, Payton was the better scorer and defender.

What also kind of turns me off about Kidd is how he bounced around from team to team during the prime of his career.
Payton was the better defender, but Kidd was an incredible defender as well. It's not like we're talking about Steve Nash here.

Payton was a better scorer, but a PGs primary job is to pass, and Kidd's passing was just on another level. That's what separates him from all otherPGs. He will finish his career at #2 all-time in assists.

Kidd just straight up plays the PG position better than Payton did.
 
4,325
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Joined Sep 12, 2007
^Yeah I agree with that. Just for some reason, I've never been a huge J-Kidd guy. I'm not doubting his greatness...just wanted to hear what otherpeople though.
 
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Joined Jan 14, 2007
being from the bay area, im truly a fan of both but to me Kidd > Payton at the PG position. Kidd was and still is arguably the best pure PG the league hasever seen. Payton was more of a combo guard than a pure PG. Dont forget Kidd was a walking triple double for most of his career. He was the most completeoffensive player before Bron showed up. Being traded shouldnt affect how your legacy is remembered because from what i remember, wherever he ended up, theywere always automatically legit contenders.

top 7 btw
 
4,325
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Joined Sep 12, 2007
^Great points. Especially about being an automatic contender wherever he went. But that's what confuses me. Why did teams always look to go in a differentdirection?
 
12,536
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Joined May 5, 2009
hes definitely top 10...i think j.kidd being a triple double machine makes him a slight better point than gp does...gp can score and defend better hes ascoring point but j.kidd did make his teamates better...gp is still
 
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