Why do you believe that there is a god?

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by NobleKane

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by NobleKane


and we cannot actually determine that he was not. somebody answered my prayers cuz nobody can have that much luck

  

You don't think its a tad selfish that he answered your prayers and has forsaken so many who pray to him/her daily-some of whom were in much more dire situations than yourself?


And what about a non-believer like myself, I'm doing way better than most people on this planet-and I consider myself one lucky ba$tard, how do you explain that?

i cant explain it. like i said i dont know why hes been there for me and not for others. i only can explain what i experienced. i have atheist friends who turned atheist because they prayed for things and their prayers fell on deaf ears. but like i said i can only explain my belief on my experiences
  

But you're automatically assuming it's god that was responsible without having evidence or knowing for sure. You're concluding this based on the experiences of others and what you can't explain yourself. For all the wonderful, unexplainable things that happen for some people, there are terrible things that happen to others. People try to make sense of that which cannot be explained by attributing the unexplainable to a god.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by B Smooth 202

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by NobleKane


and we cannot actually determine that he was not. somebody answered my prayers cuz nobody can have that much luck

  

You don't think its a tad selfish that he answered your prayers and has forsaken so many who pray to him/her daily-some of whom were in much more dire situations than yourself?


And what about a non-believer like myself, I'm doing way better than most people on this planet-and I consider myself one lucky ba$tard, how do you explain that?

How do you explain what better is? There is no real definition of better because people have different standards for their relative situation based on their wants and desires. 
What if in reality the poor people of this world have a more authentic experience? 

You THNK you have it better...and thats the point...America is 'better' for you buts its miserable for me..but you refuse to look at things outside your own point of view and it shows. 

at the end of the day....atheists complete the circle....dis-belief is a twisted form of belief....the people who call themselves atheist know God exits but are so wrought with contradiction that they can't express it....

lol for starters im not a homeless orphan in Sudan surrounded by flies


I'm pretty sure I have it better but maybe you know something i don't

If that's an "authentic" experience, I want no parts-I don't romanticize negativity---not having food and shelter is a negative BY ALL STANDARDS


LOL let's not get started with contradictions, religion is fraught with it

God is good, but he slaughters innocent people I mean "sinners"

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by NobleKane

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by NobleKane


and we cannot actually determine that he was not. somebody answered my prayers cuz nobody can have that much luck

  

You don't think its a tad selfish that he answered your prayers and has forsaken so many who pray to him/her daily-some of whom were in much more dire situations than yourself?


And what about a non-believer like myself, I'm doing way better than most people on this planet-and I consider myself one lucky ba$tard, how do you explain that?

i cant explain it. like i said i dont know why hes been there for me and not for others. i only can explain what i experienced. i have atheist friends who turned atheist because they prayed for things and their prayers fell on deaf ears. but like i said i can only explain my belief on my experiences
  

That's not a good reason to turn atheist imo

I honestly think more religious people should take it upon themselves to answer the question "why me?" Because most people do NOT get their prayers answered

Furthermore, aren't christians supposed to pray selflessly? So praying for something good to happen to you AND basing your belief in God on it goes against many christian principles if I'm not mistaken?

 

[b smooth 202]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by B Smooth 202

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey


You don't think its a tad selfish that he answered your prayers and has forsaken so many who pray to him/her daily-some of whom were in much more dire situations than yourself?


And what about a non-believer like myself, I'm doing way better than most people on this planet-and I consider myself one lucky ba$tard, how do you explain that?

How do you explain what better is? There is no real definition of better because people have different standards for their relative situation based on their wants and desires. 
What if in reality the poor people of this world have a more authentic experience? 

You THNK you have it better...and thats the point...America is 'better' for you buts its miserable for me..but you refuse to look at things outside your own point of view and it shows. 

at the end of the day....atheists complete the circle....dis-belief is a twisted form of belief....the people who call themselves atheist know God exits but are so wrought with contradiction that they can't express it....

lol for starters im not a homeless orphan in Sudan surrounded by flies


I'm pretty sure I have it better but maybe you know something i don't

If that's an "authentic" experience, I want no parts-I don't romanticize negativity---not having food and shelter is a negative no matter how you cut it


LOL let's not get started with contradictions, religion is fraught with it

God is good, but he slaughters innocent people I mean "sinners"

Its not about romanticizing...its about acknowledging a basic reality...of course you show little ability to think abstractly...
I really wish people would get rid of their false egos but its all part of the process. 

 

[nikeairforce1]

Originally Posted by NobleKane

Originally Posted by Boi

I don't understand how people can believe in a god when there are TONS of other religions that believe in different gods.

If Jesus, or whoever "created" us, why wouldn't everyone believe in just ONE god?

Makes no sense to me..

well if you think hard enough maybe it is just one god. only the name and interpetation has changed. thats why nobody should say that their god is greater when everyone is probably praying and worshipping the same god...
  

1st Commandment - "You shall have no other gods before me."

Nope.  According to God and the Bible, there is more than one god.

So how do you know you chose the right god?

What if the real god wants you to your life seeking knowledge instead of settling and putting it all on faith?

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by B Smooth 202

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by B Smooth 202

How do you explain what better is? There is no real definition of better because people have different standards for their relative situation based on their wants and desires. 
What if in reality the poor people of this world have a more authentic experience? 

You THNK you have it better...and thats the point...America is 'better' for you buts its miserable for me..but you refuse to look at things outside your own point of view and it shows. 

at the end of the day....atheists complete the circle....dis-belief is a twisted form of belief....the people who call themselves atheist know God exits but are so wrought with contradiction that they can't express it....

lol for starters im not a homeless orphan in Sudan surrounded by flies


I'm pretty sure I have it better but maybe you know something i don't

If that's an "authentic" experience, I want no parts-I don't romanticize negativity---not having food and shelter is a negative no matter how you cut it


LOL let's not get started with contradictions, religion is fraught with it

God is good, but he slaughters innocent people I mean "sinners"

Its not about romanticizing...its about acknowledging a basic reality...of course you show little ability to think abstractly...
I really wish people would get rid of their false egos but its all part of the process. 

lolol @ your cop out responses-there's nothing abstract about what you said-you tried to describe human strife and struggle as making life more "authentic"

I shut that nonsense down quickly and you went to the "I was being abstract" excuse---come on son

There's nothing egotistical about me empathizing with people who clearly have it worse than I do

 

[b smooth 202]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by B Smooth 202

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

lol for starters im not a homeless orphan in Sudan surrounded by flies


I'm pretty sure I have it better but maybe you know something i don't

If that's an "authentic" experience, I want no parts-I don't romanticize negativity---not having food and shelter is a negative no matter how you cut it


LOL let's not get started with contradictions, religion is fraught with it

God is good, but he slaughters innocent people I mean "sinners"

Its not about romanticizing...its about acknowledging a basic reality...of course you show little ability to think abstractly...
I really wish people would get rid of their false egos but its all part of the process. 

lolol @ your cop out responses-there's nothing abstract about what you said-you tried to describe human strife and struggle as making life more "authentic"

I shut that nonsense down quickly and you went to the "I was being abstract" excuse---come on son

OK bruh....I never said what I said was abstract...I said you fail to understand abstract concepts....because you assign well-being to material well- being which is simply not true...or all millionaires and so called successful people would be happy. 
Im ahead of you man...it really pains me to put myself on such a low level as you...I do it because you make the effort bruh. 

 

[kix4kix]

It's frankly none of your business.

 

[b smooth 202]

'What you base your happiness around material, women, and large paper
That means you inferior, not major'

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by B Smooth 202

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by B Smooth 202

Its not about romanticizing...its about acknowledging a basic reality...of course you show little ability to think abstractly...
I really wish people would get rid of their false egos but its all part of the process. 

lolol @ your cop out responses-there's nothing abstract about what you said-you tried to describe human strife and struggle as making life more "authentic"

I shut that nonsense down quickly and you went to the "I was being abstract" excuse---come on son

OK bruh....I never said what I said was abstract...I said you fail to understand abstract concepts....because you assign well-being to material well- being which is simply not true...or all millionaires and so called successful people would be happy. 
Im ahead of you man...it really pains me to put myself on such a low level as you...I do it because you make the effort bruh. 

Ahead of me in what? Ignorance?

What's abstract about what we discussed? There's nothing abstract about human suffering, you chose to go there

I'm not talking about millionaires, I'm not a millionaire-I'm talking about the basic necessities of life stop tryna make this very simple concept more than it is for the sake of winning an argument

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by B Smooth 202

'What you base your happiness around material, women, and large paper
That means you inferior, not major'

LOL no one is this vapid

-For starters I wish I had a mansion a yacht and 2 white women but I'm in debt-maybe some day but material things don't motivate me in my chosen profession


I'm clearly talking about the fact that i have a roof over my head, a chance to pursue my dreams, my health and food on the table

 

[steinbeckballa]

Originally Posted by So Nyuh Shi Dae

Originally Posted by Steinbeckballa

Ya we all were born in sin. What I mean by free will is by choosing between right or wrong. ex. Cheat on a test or not cheat on a test. You have the ability to make the decision you want and if you don't make the right decision then that's sin. We are all going to make mistakes in our life, but all we can do is ask for forgivness, strentgh, patience, and wisdom to get through whatever the individual is going trough.

Are you playing devils advocate? What are your beliefs So Nyuh Shi?

No, I know what you mean by free will regarding sin, but you said that we were created to make senses. In other words, we were created to sin. If we were created to sin, then we do not have free will to choose between right and wrong because the almighty creator created us so that we would do wrong. Do you see what I'm getting at?

No, I'm not playing devil's advocate. You said some things that I felt were interesting and I'm just trying to have a discussion on what you said. Personally, I don't feel that we can know or understand whether god exists. This is why I originally asked you about how one can know whether god is answering their prayers or whether something else is accounting for their prayers being answered. For any instance where prayers are answered, or a miracle occurs, we can't actually determine that god was a part of that.

I see where you getting at. God knows that we are all going to fail at one point. Name one person that is perfect. God did not create us to do only wrong. He's acknowledging that we will fail and sin at some point in our lives.
And about the answering of your prayers. There were times where my prayers were answered instantly and times where I had to be patient. It's all on faith to be honest. I believe that God is a part and was a part.

And I don't cosign to laughing at non-believers. Because heaven is not promised to anyone.

 

[male order groom]

What is the purpose of religion?

Like, do believers sin any less than non believers? Are you better people? Both answers a resounding no.

So God is going to let you into paradise just because you profess to believe in him, even though you're in the club committing the same sins as me, time and time again, only to afterwards pray for forgiveness? I promise you, 1/2 of your church population if not more between the age of 18-35, was in the club lusting, drinking, smoking, among other things just 12 hrs prior to Sunday service. Did it once, begged forgiveness, became a nun, and never sinned again, ok I agree you should get in but week after week after week, it's not like you are learning or improving. Again, it's more of a loophole.

Then what about people like Gandhi? So he went to Hell just because he believed in another God? By the way that law screws over a good % of the globe who would be born without ever even having the chance to choose God, Christian white Jesus anyways.

Again, kind of a douchebaggie move on God's part.

Gluttony is one of the deadly sins btw, so everyone fat is going to hell.

 

[nikeairforce1]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

It's frankly none of your business.

 

[nikeairforce1]

B Smooth always comes in these religion threads and pretty much ends it with his gibberish riff raff.

like you can't even begin to address his points because they don't make any goddamn sense.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

B Smooth always comes in these religion threads and pretty much ends it with his gibberish riff raff.

like you can't even begin to address his points because they don't make any goddamn sense.

Dude consistently goes off on tangents, disguised as "abstract thinking"

 

[chokeonsmoke]

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by kix4kix

It's frankly none of your business.

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by Steinbeckballa

Originally Posted by So Nyuh Shi Dae

Originally Posted by Steinbeckballa

Ya we all were born in sin. What I mean by free will is by choosing between right or wrong. ex. Cheat on a test or not cheat on a test. You have the ability to make the decision you want and if you don't make the right decision then that's sin. We are all going to make mistakes in our life, but all we can do is ask for forgivness, strentgh, patience, and wisdom to get through whatever the individual is going trough.

Are you playing devils advocate? What are your beliefs So Nyuh Shi?

No, I know what you mean by free will regarding sin, but you said that we were created to make senses. In other words, we were created to sin. If we were created to sin, then we do not have free will to choose between right and wrong because the almighty creator created us so that we would do wrong. Do you see what I'm getting at?

No, I'm not playing devil's advocate. You said some things that I felt were interesting and I'm just trying to have a discussion on what you said. Personally, I don't feel that we can know or understand whether god exists. This is why I originally asked you about how one can know whether god is answering their prayers or whether something else is accounting for their prayers being answered. For any instance where prayers are answered, or a miracle occurs, we can't actually determine that god was a part of that.

I see where you getting at. God knows that we are all going to fail at one point. Name one person that is perfect. God did not create us to do only wrong. He's acknowledging that we will fail and sin at some point in our lives.
And about the answering of your prayers. There were times where my prayers were answered instantly and times where I had to be patient. It's all on faith to be honest. I believe that God is a part and was a part.

And I don't cosign to laughing at non-believers. Because heaven is not promised to anyone.

Right, but what I'm getting at is that god essentially created us to be sinners. God hates sin, yet he created us to sin. That doesn't really make any sense. We don't have a choice to enter into this world, we don't have a choice to be a sinner or not. We really don't have a choice in whether we accept god or not because god promises to send disbelievers to the worst place imaginable to experience the worst torture imaginable. That just sounds odd.

 

[iamjusayn]

Originally Posted by vatech733

http://www.stumbleupon.co...anscript.com/zs/882.html

*highly suggest you read this, very smart lady*

Strong!

 

[iamjusayn]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by iamsaikotic

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Faith is the belief in the lack of�evidence.
Thats DANGEROUS and makes NO sense. You're technically free to believe in unicorns and leprechauns at that point.�

Additionally why do you think there is "oblivion" ? You were TAUGHT that... Thats not an inherent thought. There is no evidence for hell. In fact most concepts of hell arose from popular writers like Dante in the middle ages. Additionally the whole fire and brimstone act includes phrases started in the tent revivals of the middle of the 19th century. Its all a sham and you are falling into the trap. Do your history and ask yourself, WHY DO I BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE?�

Take time to validate your own thoughts.�

You may be able to turn simpletons away from faith by TYPING IN UPPER CASE, but fact is faith is a real thing. Faith can't be comprehended by all people, and I'm fine with that. You're the only one trying to instill your own beliefs into someone else. If you want to make comparisons you're like the hypebeast who criticizes someone else's clothes because they're not the hottest thing. There's a reason why religion has been around for as long as it has been and as for this strong argumentative belief in atheism, one can't say the same.

if faith can't be comprehended by all people then its not a universal concept. Its just something transient and you shouldn't say its a real thing then. It clearly isn't.
The fact that I don't have faith your god should show you how invalid the entire concept is. 

I'm not trying to instill my beliefs. I really am not. I'm asking what reasons people have for doing things. There clearly isn't a good one so WHY do it? 

BTW, atheism has been rising for centuries. Remember, it used to be illegal to be anything but a christian for much of this world's history. And islam has adopted that same concept. There have always been atheists. Just like there have always been gay people. There have always been those who didn't fall into the trap of mental security in belief in some sky daddy.

Also your argument is flawed. Religion may have been around for a while but you are neglecting the fact that the SAME religions haven't been around. In fact there are thousands of religions. 

BTW, its not a BELIEF in atheism. Atheism is the lack of belief. A= Lack; Theism=God/religion. Thats it. Thats part of the reason I hate the word. What do you call someone who doesn't collect stamps? Or doesn't play sports? Atheism shouldn't exist as a word. I just don't believe in any gods. Thats not a belief. You BELIEVE. Not me. The basal stance is to be convinced of an argument. That is you, not me. 

Great contrast!

 

[voidemperor]

Originally Posted by So Nyuh Shi Dae

Originally Posted by Steinbeckballa

So Nyuh Shi Dae wrote:

Right, but what I'm getting at is that god essentially created us to be sinners. God hates sin, yet he created us to sin. That doesn't really make any sense. We don't have a choice to enter into this world, we don't have a choice to be a sinner or not. We really don't have a choice in whether we accept god or not because god promises to send disbelievers to the worst place imaginable to experience the worst torture imaginable. That just sounds odd.


But he still loves you 

 God is going to send you to hell to suffer for eternity but remember he loves you. 

 

[revthejedi]

This is the type of conversation destined to go nowhere. I believe in God becasue I was raised in the church and I've never had a readon to doubt his existence. My prayers normally get answered, sucks for you guys and those kids in the Sudan.

Edit - After reading a bit more of this thread, I'd like to add that though there are numerous religions out there, in my experience most of them place emphasis on the same things. The way I see it there is one religion with a ton of different variations/gods. A "good" Muslim could get into heaven IMO.

 

[iamjusayn]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by Kramer

Originally Posted by Hizzle



Don't you think an all seeing being could read your intentions that you're only believing something to reap the benefits of doing so and not because you actually believe it? When you say "I might as well believe..." you're not actually believing. You're pretending to believe.

That's not the real reason I believe as stated in my previous sentences thats a benefit of being a Christian, Heaven.

sillyputty wrote:

---

Christian virtues and morals are shaped by a secular understanding of tolerance for the beliefs of others. Before the influence of and respect for minority rights, Christians used to murder, silence, and marginalize those who were not like them. Islam is currently doing the same thing. 




You choose to follow one religion but ignore all the others. If you know why you ignore all the others you know why I ignore yours. You are choosing to overlook your inconsistencies because it benefits you.




Thats just rampant narcissism. 

Im pretty sure Christian morals are shaped by what it says in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus, which does not include murdering. Ive never killed someone so I don't know what you're talking about. I never said I ignore other religions, I don't believe in them but I don't ignore them so I have no clue why you're attacking me on that front

If you really followed the bible you wouldn't enjoy the life you do now. 




Leviticus?  Treatment of women? Even the 10 commandments? The morality of god murdering thousands? The contradictions? 

You are a cafeteria christian. You pick and choose what applies to you and leave the rest. Its dishonest and YES, I am calling you out on it. 




Its GOOD that you don't kill people in the name of god...but guess what, others in the bible have as they were "commanded to by god". You can't say god didn't tell them to do it either. How do you know? God talked to them, right? Not you. 




You are more MORAL than your bible. You have a better understanding of reasoning than your book provides. Its time you start giving yourself more credit. 




The moment you take the high-ground with respect to whats in the bible then you have shown that you don't need the bible to make decisions in your life. 




If god told you to kill your kids would you do it? Probably not. 




Theres a reason why you can think for yourself independently of that bible. 

Kramer wrote:

---

My question is why are the people in here against religion so aggressive? Everyone else seems pretty passive except people like silly putty...

Because I disagree with irrational and logically inconsistent conclusions. 



I actually care if things are true or not. I don't know about you. 

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by RevTheJedi

This is the type of conversation destined to go nowhere. I believe in God becasue I was raised in the church and I've never had a readon to doubt his existence. My prayers normally get answered, sucks for you guys and those kids in the Sudan.

Edit - After reading a bit more of this thread, I'd like to add that though there are numerous religions out there, in my experience most of them place emphasis on the same things. The way I see it there is one religion with a ton of different variations/gods. A "good" Muslim could get into heaven IMO.

Islam states that Christians and Jews are following the wrong path. Christianity clearly believes that Islam is not the correct path. So, it's not correct to say these are all variants of one another. They clearly state that all other religions are wrong.

 

[steinbeckballa]

He did but we have the choice to sin. During the old testament you read about God getting rid of thousands of people for believing a statue(something like that), and also I remember reading and God was about to wipe out thousands of more people but Moses begged God not too. There would be automatic death if you sinned, but Jesus was born and he died for our sins. When you say we don't have a choice to be a sinner or not, you're right because we are NOT perfect. God knows that we will fail, but we will also be forgiven. You do have a choice to accept God. Either you do or you don't.  And God doesn't only send disbelievers, but even the ones that SAY the believe. I'm not sure if you read the bible but if you do look at Matthew 7 verse 21-23 it talks about even the ones have praised his name and casted out demons aren't guaranteed the entrance of the kingdom of heaven. So I can't even say that I will go to heaven because I am in no position to say that about my future or anyone else. Like I've been saying this whole thread it's faith. 
Not trying to be the over bearing person that puts people down just because they don't believe. Because I know myself and a lot of other Christians don't practice our belief like we are supposed to and that's why there's this negative view of when a person says they are a Christian.