Why do you believe that there is a god?

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

I've been on reddit too man. There are 3 scott atran things, with 1, 6, and 4 upvotes. There are so many things on r/atheism pointing to religion as the source for the worlds problems, evidence of their tendency for scapegoating (just as religious people do, but not nearly as much in the other subreddits). Regularly on the front page. Picking out and screenshotting the dumbest arguments they could find, just for the sake of reaffirming their beliefs.

I picked these arguments because they are intelligent guys that are capable of verbalizing their beliefs. Not just as an appeal to authority. I don't think you can universalize your argument that easily against all religions, for the core concepts of what God is and our existence and purpose in life are, in many cases, very different. There isn't a thing called religion, but rather multiple religions.

I don't think religion is the MAIN source of problems...there isn't one. But its a MAJOR one. Religion in this country isn't as important as we make it seem...sure there are some superstitious people but thats nothing in comparison to the theocracies around the world.
There are countries where you can be imprisoned for not fasting during holy months. 

There are people who will rather STARVE than to eat food thats not "prayed" over. 

I know there are many ways to improve the world and right now I want to do that through debunking religion and superstition to influence people to have a better understanding of the world thats based in reason, and evidence. 

I know www.reddit.com/r/atheism tends to be a circle-jerk but there is some good content on there. Thats what happens when you get a collection of people who are mentally marginalized for NOT believing in some "god". Its also the biggest atheist forum on the internet to some records so there may be some quality issues. However, none of the claims spoken about or addressed should be marginalized. Its all about expression. 

Only though continued debate and collective conversation can we arrive at better conclusions. 

 

[vatech733]

for those who did not follow the link in my post.....


Ayn Rand: The real issue as far as man is concerned, is that when you accept such an important issue as the creation of the universe on faith you are destroying your confidence and the validity of your own mind. It has to be either reason or faith. I am against god for the reason that I don't want to destroy reason. I don't...

Interviewer: Give us a chance, alright? We appreciate your zeal but if you continue that it's going to make it difficult for the other people absorb all this, what's going on here, OK?

Ayn Rand: How can I be against god? I'm against those who conceived that idea.

Interviewer: Tell us why. Tell us why.

Ayn Rand: Because then it gives man permission to function irrationally, to accept something above and outside the power of their reason and superior to reason. You said it, I think unintentionally. You said "so I can't wait to die and find out." That, I'm serious, is one of the results of acting on faith. You can't wait to get out of this life.

Interviewer: And what's wrong with that?

Ayn Rand: Because this life is wonderful, as you said. Because if you look at the the universe, it's wonderful and you have to use your life to the best of your understanding. If you go by emotions, not reason, it means you're going against reality. Something exists, something is right and you say no, I don't like it because I want to believe something else.

Interviewer: I see.

Ayn Rand: You, in effect, go by emotions, by your whims, not by reason.

Interviewer: So? So for you but not for others, OK. What do you care? Somebody wants to worship a Christmas tree or a telephone pole, that's their business.

Ayn Rand: I respect that legally. I said that everyone has the right to believe anything they want but I don't have to approve. If they are serious, I would say... [noise] [laughter] You know? But I would never pass any laws to stop them.

Interviewer: You've got to allow that you're not smart enough to know whether or not there's a god.

Ayn Rand: Yes. I am and everybody here is.

Interviewer: Is what?

Ayn Rand: Smart enough. It doesn't take much intelligence. Do you know why?

Interviewer: Why?

nterviewer: I tend to think of this whole thing as ongoing, that there is an eternity and that we are going to be part of that eternity, that we aren't just corpses in graves when we die.

Ayn Rand: But we aren't corpses in graves, we are not dead. Don't you understand that when this life is finished, you're not there to say oh how terrible that I'm a corpse? No.

Interviewer: Well this is true.

Ayn Rand: It's finished. And what I've always thought was a sentence from some Greek philosopher, I don't unfortunately remember who it was, but I read it at 16 and it has affected me all my life. I will not die. It's the world that will end. [silence] …
Ayn Rand: Because you are not called upon, I cannot be called upon to know a negative or to prove a negative. If there is a god and you prove it, that's fine. But you don't tell me you can't know that there isn't. I would say yes I know there isn't because I have been given no evidence.


/ THREAD

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by logbi

i was waiting for sillyputty to reply to my last post. well, i guess he doesn't have any other way around his arguements. oh well....nuff said.

You were waiting to a reply? 
To this?

you didn't say anything:

logbi wrote:

---

sillyputty wrote:

---

logbi wrote:

---

coz He exists.

OK...since you've predicted what I'm going to ask you...



How do you know this god exists and can you prove it? 





ohh.....dejavu!!! lol
?????

 

[emoney246]

Originally Posted by gambit215

Originally Posted by man listen


dude..you're trying to pit science against God as if it isn't one in the same. science is the explanation of what is called "God" has put into existence. The "cause" of the "effect". as a primarily left brained logical thinker you should know that you can't have one without the other. science "changes" because it is incomplete and always will be like you said...it will always be millions of steps behind. new evidence isn't introduced, it always is. math doesn't "change" as you go from kindergarten to high school, you simply develop the capacity to understand calculus (or not). science has not yet developed the capacity to understand God on a logical level. before there was a scientific explanation for gravity there was gravity. gravity wasn't "introduced", it fell on top of Newton's head just like God will undeniably make his presence felt in your life once you develop the capacity. belief, faith, understanding, and execution of that which cannot be explained doesn't make you blind it makes you ahead of the time. science is not some all knowing entity, God is. God has a way of being true whether you understand it or not and you will understand God very soon. 
the "evidence" you keep referring to is secondhand knowledge. you won't believe something until someone else takes the time to make it tangible and dumb it down so that you can understand it and vicariously say "that makes sense". God cannot be explained through secondhand knowledge. God must be understood on a personal level through your own experience and findings because YOU ARE GOD. the "evidence" is your life and existence that you will never understand as long as YOU DENY GOD/YOURSELF. God is the creator, to deny him is to deny yourself. I'm not talking about religion or church or any of the bull *!%%, I'm talking about GOD-- YOU, YOURSELF on a physical, mental, spiritual level. you are stuck on the physical substance of what you call "evidence" and are blind and deaf to your very own spirit and your true mind BECAUSE YOU ARE WAITING ON SECONDHAND KNOWLEDGE. you are waiting on someone to explain you to yourself. if you were to stop thinking so much it would be impossible for you to deny God. you are trapped in this cage of "logic" thinking that it is the be all end all and that "logic" explains everything. the universe is infinite, whatever you can think of there is always MORE. there is MORE than logic, there is MORE than evidence and there is MORE than God. you are missing the forest for the trees dude... 

thats good. whats your response to this silly?

 

[kramer]

My question is why are the people in here against religion so aggressive? Everyone else seems pretty passive except people like silly putty...

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by Kramer

Originally Posted by Hizzle

Originally Posted by Kramer

I believe in God because to me it makes more sense then anything else. I don't believe the universe and the world could exist in any other way other than a deity putting it here. I also don't believe any normal humans could have possibly written the Bible with all its complexities, and how so many things we can observe match up with it. [h3]Finally, if what it says is true and the only way to Heaven is by believing in Jesus then why wouldn't I?[/h3] And if the Bible is wrong then at least I follow Christian virtues and morals and am living a fairly good life.

Don't you think an all seeing being could read your intentions that you're only believing something to reap the benefits of doing so and not because you actually believe it? When you say "I might as well believe..." you're not actually believing. You're pretending to believe.

That's not the real reason I believe as stated in my previous sentences thats a benefit of being a Christian, Heaven.

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by Kramer

I believe in God because to me it makes more sense then anything else. I don't believe the universe and the world could exist in any other way other than a deity putting it here. I also don't believe any normal humans could have possibly written the Bible with all its complexities, and how so many things we can observe match up with it. Finally, if what it says is true and the only way to Heaven is by believing in Jesus then why wouldn't I? And if the Bible is wrong then at least I follow Christian virtues and morals and am living a fairly good life.

Christian virtues and morals are shaped by a secular understanding of tolerance for the beliefs of others. Before the influence of and respect for minority rights, Christians used to murder, silence, and marginalize those who were not like them. Islam is currently doing the same thing. 

You choose to follow one religion but ignore all the others. If you know why you ignore all the others you know why I ignore yours. You are choosing to overlook your inconsistencies because it benefits you.

Thats just rampant narcissism. 

---

Im pretty sure Christian morals are shaped by what it says in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus, which does not include murdering. Ive never killed someone so I don't know what you're talking about. I never said I ignore other religions, I don't believe in them but I don't ignore them so I have no clue why you're attacking me on that front




If you really followed the bible you wouldn't enjoy the life you do now. 

Leviticus?  Treatment of women? Even the 10 commandments? The morality of god murdering thousands? The contradictions? 

You are a cafeteria christian. You pick and choose what applies to you and leave the rest. Its dishonest and YES, I am calling you out on it. 

Its GOOD that you don't kill people in the name of god...but guess what, others in the bible have as they were "commanded to by god". You can't say god didn't tell them to do it either. How do you know? God talked to them, right? Not you. 

You are more MORAL than your bible. You have a better understanding of reasoning than your book provides. Its time you start giving yourself more credit. 

The moment you take the high-ground with respect to whats in the bible then you have shown that you don't need the bible to make decisions in your life. 

If god told you to kill your kids would you do it? Probably not. 

Theres a reason why you can think for yourself independently of that bible. 

Originally Posted by Kramer

My question is why are the people in here against religion so aggressive? Everyone else seems pretty passive except people like silly putty...

Because I disagree with irrational and logically inconsistent conclusions. 

I actually care if things are true or not. I don't know about you. 

 

[rko2004]

I'd love for someone to explain the complexity of the female body. It really is a work of art.

 

[go rilla]

sillyputty is definitely coming after tevinbrad's title for post 

of the year

 

[bilbo07]

the carter iv just broke the itunes sales record in 4 days. there is no god.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by man listen

sillyputty wrote:

I don't care if you don't want to be like me. Thats not the issue. The issue is you saying things and suggestion notions which have not only been disproven but have never been substantiated with ANY evidence. EVER. 
I uplift plenty of people. I just don't have to believe in a god to do so. I don't need to be told i'm going to hell to be a good person. I don't get anything out of not being a **** to another person. 

I also directed you to the video because it addresses and compiles a response to your pseudoscience endeavors in a more concise way than I can. Its not to say that I don't have my own opinions. 

dude..you're trying to pit science against God as if it isn't one in the same. science is the explanation of what is called "God" has put into existence. The "cause" of the "effect". as a primarily left brained logical thinker you should know that you can't have one without the other. science "changes" because it is incomplete and always will be like you said...it will always be millions of steps behind. new evidence isn't introduced, it always is. math doesn't "change" as you go from kindergarten to high school, you simply develop the capacity to understand calculus (or not). science has not yet developed the capacity to understand God on a logical level. before there was a scientific explanation for gravity there was gravity. gravity wasn't "introduced", it fell on top of Newton's head just like God will undeniably make his presence felt in your life once you develop the capacity. belief, faith, understanding, and execution of that which cannot be explained doesn't make you blind it makes you ahead of the time. science is not some all knowing entity, God is. God has a way of being true whether you understand it or not and you will understand God very soon. 
the "evidence" you keep referring to is secondhand knowledge. you won't believe something until someone else takes the time to make it tangible and dumb it down so that you can understand it and vicariously say "that makes sense". God cannot be explained through secondhand knowledge. God must be understood on a personal level through your own experience and findings because YOU ARE GOD. the "evidence" is your life and existence that you will never understand as long as YOU DENY GOD/YOURSELF. God is the creator, to deny him is to deny yourself. I'm not talking about religion or church or any of the bull *!%%, I'm talking about GOD-- YOU, YOURSELF on a physical, mental, spiritual level. you are stuck on the physical substance of what you call "evidence" and are blind and deaf to your very own spirit and your true mind BECAUSE YOU ARE WAITING ON SECONDHAND KNOWLEDGE. you are waiting on someone to explain you to yourself. if you were to stop thinking so much it would be impossible for you to deny God. you are trapped in this cage of "logic" thinking that it is the be all end all and that "logic" explains everything. the universe is infinite, whatever you can think of there is always MORE. there is MORE than logic, there is MORE than evidence and there is MORE than God. you are missing the forest for the trees dude... 


How do you know "god" did it? Thats the point. You don't. And you have failed to show WHY or HOW you think that why. You keep resorting to cheap arguments to side-step this. Why must you assert that GOD did it? 




Explaining how things work doesn't mean we can explain how things became the way they were either.




Just because we don't know or understand something fully doesn't mean that we never will or that we should give up trying.




What is your point here? 



This is a nonsensical argument of several levels.



The fact that others believe in other God(s) should mean that YOUR GOD ISNT THE ONLY ONE PEOPLE RECOGNIZE! 




Youre believing in a concept that you were TAUGHT. If this god is so apparent then why did you have to learn about it? Why do other people honor other gods? Why is your god not the only one?


Isn't it funny how god ONLY talks to people who believe in that god? Non-believers never get the same priviledge. 




If there was a god I want him to reveal himself. I want there to be a god. But I can't find a good reason to believe in one based on the claims youve proposed. You have to convince others to believe. NOT believing in something is the default stance. You must be convinced of every argument you have ever accepted as true or real, even in science. In court you are innocent until PROVEN guilty. You can't disprove a negative man. Its a mathematical and logical fallacy.




On top of that, I never said science was introduced. Whoever would make such a claim is a fool unlike no other. UNDERSTANDING how the world works is a different thing. Thats what math is. Its the numerical representation based on a system we created to attempt to streamline phenomena in predictable means. Thats all science is. We try to understand how things work to a reliable degree. Sometimes we get it wrong. But theres nothing wrong with trying as so many people benefit from it. 




Well if you can't prove it there is a saying I go by. Put up, or shut up. 




Not to offend you but lets be honest here. You apply logic and reasoning in EVERY aspect of your life. As I said in another post, you are skeptical of nigerian email scams, you look both ways before crossing the street, you realize you have to study to pass tests, you don't walk on bridges built on faith, you don't go to doctors who have "faith" in their treatment instead of collective empirical knowledge, you don't draft a kid out of middle school into the NBA based on faith, you don't drink whats been handed to you based on faith either. So why when it comes to accepting such a universal claim that you abandon ALL of the mental accounting systems you have and accept that notion. Thats DISHONEST fam. Just be real with yourself for a second. 




Additionally the "second-hand" knowledge thing you talk about is a valid question. I actually take the time to investigate scientific claims. My job actually depends on it. Its good that we've determined how reliable the calculation for the acceleration of an object due to gravity is. Its good that we can reliably determine epigenetic methylation on DNA to a particular degree. 




Those that dont take the time to validate their thoughts and conclusions are running the risk of being fed whatever is handed to them and not asking questions. 







This is the dense argument I never understand.




Why do you think I am "rejecting" god?




I don't have any negative experiences. I wasn't raped, molested or robbed. I've never been lied to by a person in authority. I have no personal qualms with churches or religious people at all. 




I do not believe in your god because I do not find the proof you have suggested for the existence of that god to be substantial. Especially when many of the claims for your god have been explained away through other means. 




Its funny you say "if i were to stop thinking so much I would find god" ...Thats the problem. Lets say your god exists. Then your god made me. Then your god knows what I think. Your god made me ask all these questions. Then your god made me not believe in that god. So where are we now? 




Whats the matter with thinking so much anyways? I guess thats illegal these days? 


You WANTING there to be some metaphysical connection to the world doesn't make it more true. All you have in this world is EVIDENCE AND TESTABLE CLAIMS. Otherwise you're free to just do or say or suggest anything you want. I can say the most foul thing in the world and have it be true because I believe it. If your kid starts believing in their imaginary friend does it make it more true? Is it true ONLY because you believe it?  Leave the tea leaves out of this debate for a second. Don't get confused by poetic charlatans like Chopra who talk on this level of haughty high-flying nonsense that doesnt explain anything. 




Leave this "god body" 5%-er nonsense out of here. Its this narcissistic claim that "we are the gods that created us" ...yeah it sounds nice in songs but it doesn't mean anything. Its simply useless jargon that does not prove your claim. 

 

[logbi]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by logbi

i was waiting for sillyputty to reply to my last post. well, i guess he doesn't have any other way around his arguements. oh well....nuff said.

You were waiting to a reply? 
To this?

you didn't say anything:

logbi wrote:

---

sillyputty wrote:

---

OK...since you've predicted what I'm going to ask you...



How do you know this god exists and can you prove it? 

?????


didn't you ask that to everyone who believed in God?

 

[pookieman]

Originally Posted by go rilla

sillyputty is definitely coming after tevinbrad's title for post 

of the year

Thanks for adding this. Definitely puts a new spin on this topic.

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by Kramer

I believe in God because to me it makes more sense then anything else. I don't believe the universe and the world could exist in any other way other than a deity putting it here. I also don't believe any normal humans could have possibly written the Bible with all its complexities, and how so many things we can observe match up with it. Finally, if what it says is true and the only way to Heaven is by believing in Jesus then why wouldn't I? And if the Bible is wrong then at least I follow Christian virtues and morals and am living a fairly good life.

Refusing to believe that the universe could not exist without having been intelligently designed isn't really an argument. The Bible really isn't that "complex", but it is important to note that many of the concepts and stories found in the Bible were gathered from civilizations and religions that predate the Bible.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by foreveryoung

It relies on empirical evidence collected over time to substantiate and
legitimize a claim. Granted we accept certain things as "Fact" but the extent of
gravity on another planet isn't the same and our understanding of how the world
works may not apply to another planet...but for us, this is good for now.

Whats the logical explanation of accepting certain things as "fact" vs someone having faith?

Regardless of your view on religion (you clearly will not alter your beliefs regardless of what anybody says

) jsut based on logic alone it just seems so hard to describe so many things.

Like your example of gravity. Did gravity not exsist until it was scientifically proven and given a name?

Way back when the Earth was flat, did that mean it was a FACT that it was flat until scientifically proven otherwise?

I just cant ever think of any revolutionary figures, or visionaires, whether it was religion or science, that at one point their idea wasnt considered completely illogical and 'factless'

Am I saying your wrong, or someone else is right? Nah I'm just saying that you saying someone else is wrong is, well, illogical

.

And my dude, if you wait for everything to be proven before you accept something as true, I see absolutely no possible way you can ever be great. At anything really, regardless of field

man listen

Just read your response. Hit it on the head
 
Why do I accept things as fact? 



Things like the theory of gravity and the related equations have proven to be reliable to an almost infinite degree of where we have seen them used. So in that regard they are facts. Until new evidence comes along to either support or debunk the conclusion, it stands. 

Gravity always existed. I don't understand your thoughts. They tried calculating it back with the ancient sumerians and greeks. do your history of science. We have only recently been able to qualify it and apply measurements to it. 

Heres the thing... I know what you're getting at...all controversial ideas have been thought of as looney claims at some point or another...thats fine...but you know what separated those thoughts like homeopoathy, mindreading, magic, astrology, or some other superstitious claim  or even the ETHER they tried to calculate from  evolution back in the late 1800s or heliocentrism? EVIDENCE. Once the church saw that the earth revolves around the sun they HAD to apologize. Once biologists saw that evolution occurred they HAD apologize. Thats what separates and validates these claims. 

I'm saying that based on the claims for the existence of a god, the conclusion is not supported. There very well COULD be a god. But nothing you or anyone else has said supports that logically, or with any substantial evidence other than them just WANTING it to be true. Skipping over the proof doesn't make it more true. 

You know what? Every idea ever created may have been thought crazy but it started BASED on the idea of what was already known. People dream and have wishes all the time. But you can't PROVE or SHOW or MANIFEST those dreams without proof. Because guess what, if its TRUE, it will ALWAYS be true. Thats the flaw in your point here. 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by pookieman

Originally Posted by go rilla

sillyputty is definitely coming after tevinbrad's title for post 

of the year

Thanks for adding this. Definitely puts a new spin on this topic.

I mean I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. 
I simply was addressing questions posed to me and debating the claims of others. 

 

[sillyputty]

 

[pookieman]

Those that dont take the time to validate their thoughts and conclusions are running the risk of being fed whatever is handed to them and not asking questions.

I find myself having this debate all the time when people ask me if I believe in god.....I make this exact statement comes up and they always get upset at me.

Sillyputty - where did you go to school? 

 

[supermanblue79]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by Supermanblue79

Originally Posted by sillyputty

What has "god" reasonably done for you that you didnt do yourself?

Why does "god" get all the credit when you've worked long and hard to change your life and to move forward? You do all the work and this entity gets all the credit?
What happened to rewarding yourself and thanking yourself for being successful? Where was that god when you were down and out? If this god is responsible for the good then it is responsible for the bad and lowest moments of your life. You can't ignore that consistency.

Saying "you're the proof" doesn't explain anything. Nor is that a convincing argument. You can't skate from the argument saying "well i have my proof so there" Thats unfair and illogical. You have not asserted what reasonable proof this is for your argument.

Additionally, not being able to explain things does not mean there is a "god" nor does it mean that it works in your favor. 

Your faith and beliefs like all other notions or ideas are not free from criticism or analysis. Religion is not exempt from being challenged. 

Great Questions.
When I was down and out, HE was waiting on me to get up and meet him halfway.
GOD has never been responsible for the lowest moments in my life, I have by doing what I wanted to instead of
following a righteous path.
Saying that I'm the proof isn't intended to explain everything, nor is it an arguement.  It's simply the proof that you
asked for;  nothing more, nothing less.  I am already convinced that there is a GOD, so there's no need for me to
argue.
I've lived this life long enough to know that my beliefs come with much criticism.  I'm secure in my faith, my beliefs,
and the blessings that it brings.

Originally Posted by sillyputty


I don't have faith in science.
Science only describes how things work to a certain degree of certainty. 

Thats why we discovered atomic physics. The world works differently at that level but for most purposes newtonian physics describes a lot of how we deal with the world on a daily basis. 

Our measurements will never be completely accurate, our symbols will never fully convey reality and our models are valid only to a certain degree. Its those that don't understand this that think that science is some all knowing entity. It isnt.

Science changes when new evidence is introduced. It refines it self. Even those who lie about their findings end up being caught sooner or later when the evidence doesn't add up....much like that guy who lied about vaccines causing autism. The scientific community shunned him a few months ago. As they should have. You see, science has a way of being true whether or not you "believe" in it. It relies on empirical evidence collected over time to substantiate and legitimize a claim. Granted we accept certain things as "Fact" but the extent of gravity on another planet isn't the same and our understanding of how the world works may not apply to another planet...but for us, this is good for now. 

One doesn't "believe" in science...one simply "understands" it. If you "believe" in a concept and you haven't take the time to justify it, it doesn't matter how true or false it is, you're no better than someone who blindly does what they're told. 

Take the time to justify and rationalize your biases and understanding of how things work. Ask yourself, why do I believe what I believe and is it true? Learn the history of not only yourself but others. 

More knowledge allows you to come to better understandings of the way things work. 

BTW, I wish that had a "faith" in god stopped using all of the things that science has afforded them. Lets see how long they last.

Science is only man's way to discover what GOD has already done.

What you've done here is evade the necessity to support your conclusions. 



Thats dishonest.




Try again.




I'm glad you've improved your life and the way you make decisions, but that doesn't mean there is a god.




What you're doing is giving credit to some other entity when in reality YOU are responsible for the improvements you've made in your life. 




You say your god wasn't responsible for the lowest points in your life? Then its not god. Heres why.




If god is omnipotent then he can do anything.




if god is omniscient then he can know everything.




If your god isn't responsible for the bad things you've done or making bad situations or creating evil then your god isn't able to do anything. Therefore its not omnipotent.




If your god didn't know how sincere you were when you were at your lowest or doesn't know your thoughts before your pray then its not omniscient.




Therefore its not your god. 




You may assert then i never said god could do or know everything...well why do you praise it so much if its less than universal and has limits? 




Reconcile this notion. 







OK...another lofty claim. Where was god when the average life expectancy was 40 years for men? Where was god when women died in child birth? Where was god when children died of cholera and other diarrhea like diseases? Where was god before we made levees to protect people from flood waters? Where was god when women are raped? Does god pick sides in a football game? 





Its one thing to take advantage of science and the improved knowledge we as a society have these days, but its another to lie to yourself and say that god is responsible for all of this as "god" has idly sit around and watch people suffere while others have dedicated their lives through everything from engineers to doctors to improve the status of the experience of life. 




Don't undermine the efforts of those whose work you take advantage of. I find that highly disrespectful, if not thing else. If you want someone to pray to, pray to that unpublished researcher slaving in a lab to develop more HPV vaccine. 

I like you sillyputty.
If GOD doesn't exist, then there's no way that you and I could be having a conversation right now about HIS existence.
But we are having this conversation.

As far as praying to a lab technician working on HPV a vaccine...no thanks.

 

[retro23j]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

So the bible is true then, huh? 
A book written over 1600 years by many authors?

Who has entire chapters left out. 

Tell me what you know about the Apocrypha. i.e. the books NOT in your NIV/KJV bible. 

Yes I believe the bible is true. I know there are chapters left out but this is my first time hearing Apocrypha. Will look into it when I can, but it honestly is not a priority for me. The bible is enough for me. I'm more concerned with knowing how to get to heaven than focusing on other accounts that may have been left out so as not to deviate from that purpose. My goal is to see Jesus in peace. 

While reading this thread today and after my last post, God proved to me again that He not only exists but is in control and is faithful. He stepped into my yesterday and changed the situation I mentioned that set me back. That's why "He is". There's no limit to Him. I owe Him a praise for the impossible of yesterday which was His opportunity to prove He is in control and no one but Him could have just changed what was. Keyword being was, meaning things have changed. That's why "He is" and not "He was", He doesn't change. He is constantly proving Himself to me.

 

[go rilla]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by pookieman

Originally Posted by go rilla

sillyputty is definitely coming after tevinbrad's title for post 

of the year

Thanks for adding this. Definitely puts a new spin on this topic.

I mean I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. 
I simply was addressing questions posed to me and debating the claims of others. 

only two more days until you hit 300 then you can start selling

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by Retro23J

Originally Posted by sillyputty

So the bible is true then, huh? 
A book written over 1600 years by many authors?

Who has entire chapters left out. 

Tell me what you know about the Apocrypha. i.e. the books NOT in your NIV/KJV bible. 

Yes I believe the bible is true. I know there are chapters left out but this is my first time hearing Apocrypha. Will look into it when I can, but it honestly is not a priority for me. The bible is enough for me. I'm more concerned with knowing how to get to heaven than focusing on other accounts that may have been left out so as not to deviate from that purpose. My goal is to see Jesus in peace. 

While reading this thread today and after my last post, God proved to me again that He not only exists but is in control and is faithful. He stepped into my yesterday and changed the situation I mentioned that set me back. That's why "He is". There's no limit to Him. I owe Him a praise for the impossible of yesterday which was His opportunity to prove He is in control and no one but Him could have just changed what was. Keyword being was, meaning things have changed. That's why "He is" and not "He was", He doesn't change. He is constantly proving Himself to me.

The Apocrypha contains books NOT in the popular versions of most bibles. These are stories that include when Jesus was a toddler running around and terrorizing his home town and Joseph had to wring his ear and set him straight. These are stories with firebreathing dragons. I'm NOT lying. Read about it. You can find a copy in bookstores. 
You should wonder why these books were left out. You should always wonder why other sects don't include parts of your bible? Why is the catholic bible different from the other texts? Why did the catholics change the word "virgin" to the word "young woman" in the re-release of the 2011 bible? Why are they changing the inerrant words of a "universal" book?

You say its not a priority but this is in fact the problem. You should care about what you claim is TRUE or not. I am showing you that you need to investigate these claims. I know more about the underlying tenets of your religion than you do...thats a problem. 

You also believe that the world was created in 6 days? Why does god need to rest on the 7th?

Why does god work on a 7 day week? Is it not because jews started the arbitrary concept of working for 6 days then taking a break? Does god respect time-zones? When is the sabbath when its in Japan vs when its in America? 

You're only focused on the "reward" you get for being a christian rather than actually being a christian. You pick and choose from your book that you don't even know the history of and don't care to know only because you want to focus on the parts that make you feel good and skip over the other inconsistencies.

I've read the bible. Twice. Once straight. Another according to a reading schedule. 

All this poetic nonsense aside (i'm sorry but thats just what it is to me, not that its an objective assessment), if god does all this, what do YOU do? What are YOU responsible for? If you trust god so much why do you work? Why do you struggle? Why not just pray for everything to happen? Why not pray for a million bucks? Or a Benz? Or a model wife? 

Wanting to believe in something doesn't make it TRUE homie. 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by Supermanblue79

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by Supermanblue79

Great Questions.
When I was down and out, HE was waiting on me to get up and meet him halfway.
GOD has never been responsible for the lowest moments in my life, I have by doing what I wanted to instead of
following a righteous path.
Saying that I'm the proof isn't intended to explain everything, nor is it an arguement.  It's simply the proof that you
asked for;  nothing more, nothing less.  I am already convinced that there is a GOD, so there's no need for me to
argue.
I've lived this life long enough to know that my beliefs come with much criticism.  I'm secure in my faith, my beliefs,
and the blessings that it brings.
Science is only man's way to discover what GOD has already done.

What you've done here is evade the necessity to support your conclusions. 



Thats dishonest.




Try again.




I'm glad you've improved your life and the way you make decisions, but that doesn't mean there is a god.




What you're doing is giving credit to some other entity when in reality YOU are responsible for the improvements you've made in your life. 




You say your god wasn't responsible for the lowest points in your life? Then its not god. Heres why.




If god is omnipotent then he can do anything.




if god is omniscient then he can know everything.




If your god isn't responsible for the bad things you've done or making bad situations or creating evil then your god isn't able to do anything. Therefore its not omnipotent.




If your god didn't know how sincere you were when you were at your lowest or doesn't know your thoughts before your pray then its not omniscient.




Therefore its not your god. 




You may assert then i never said god could do or know everything...well why do you praise it so much if its less than universal and has limits? 




Reconcile this notion. 







OK...another lofty claim. Where was god when the average life expectancy was 40 years for men? Where was god when women died in child birth? Where was god when children died of cholera and other diarrhea like diseases? Where was god before we made levees to protect people from flood waters? Where was god when women are raped? Does god pick sides in a football game? 





Its one thing to take advantage of science and the improved knowledge we as a society have these days, but its another to lie to yourself and say that god is responsible for all of this as "god" has idly sit around and watch people suffere while others have dedicated their lives through everything from engineers to doctors to improve the status of the experience of life. 




Don't undermine the efforts of those whose work you take advantage of. I find that highly disrespectful, if not thing else. If you want someone to pray to, pray to that unpublished researcher slaving in a lab to develop more HPV vaccine. 

I like you sillyputty.
If GOD doesn't exist, then there's no way that you and I could be having a conversation right now about HIS existence.
But we are having this conversation.

As far as praying to a lab technician working on HPV a vaccine...no thanks.

That we're debating something doesn't make it true. If that was the case then making women not vote would be the right thing to do, or killing gays....but we're having this conversation...

...doesn't that make not a BIT of sense to you? 
You're asserting a god exists and because we debate it means that its true? How does that even enter your mind as a valid statement? 

If you debate with your kid that his imaginary friend exists, does that make it true? 

 

BTW, if you don't give props to that HPV tech, thats fine she'll just keep giving our future daughters a way to prevent getting cervical cancer....something we can effectively reduce to an incidence of ZERO. So much for god. 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by pookieman

Those that dont take the time to validate their thoughts and conclusions are running the risk of being fed whatever is handed to them and not asking questions.

I find myself having this debate all the time when people ask me if I believe in god.....I make this exact statement comes up and they always get upset at me.

Sillyputty - where did you go to school? 




I've graduated...but... I'd rather keep that to myself. It was a top 20 school...according to those rankings...lol.

 

[man listen]

sillyputty...

bro you are totally confused. you are standing in the middle of the forest looking at all the trees and saying "where the @%** is the forest?". you are literally arguing against yourself and your own beliefs and conceptions. everything that you wrote in your last response has nothing to do with what I said in my post. you're talking about religion and god body and "my god" and "what I was taught"....I'm not talking about that crap. I specifically said I wasn't talking about religion or church, just God that I have experienced firsthand when I stopped trying to rely on "logic" and "reason" that you keep clinging to not willing to accept that there is MORE than logic and reason that leads to understanding. you are not understanding that when I say "God" I am referring to all that is BEYOND science and explanation and even awareness or do you really think that science is the ultimate? do you really believe that nothing exists outside of science theory? how many times has science claimed something to be impossible only to contradict itself once the capacity or scientific instrument has been developed for something that we already experience AT ALL TIMES to be DEDUCED to words, logic, and "evidence"? nonbelievers don't communicate with "God" for exactly that reason....they don't believe! DUH! not until IT FALLS ON TOP OF THEIR DAMN SKULL like Newton's apple and they are forced to open their eyes and accept it WHICH WILL HAPPEN TO YOU VERY SOON. you want me to show you God when you're literally standing on "him" and walking through "him" and breathing "him".....I don't have to convince you of anything and as a matter of fact I CAN'T. THAT'S YOUR JOB, FOOL. you have to come to that realization on your own I'm not here to baby sit you. I used to be you and think like you and think I was so smart until I grew up and realized that there is a higher level beyond the beyond and before the before. you keep asking me for proof...why don't you ask God? why don't you log off right now go sit somewhere quiet take an open mind and ask God to immediately prove himself to you? you cannot sit down and stand up both at once...you cannot say you want there to be a god and yet constantly search for "reasons" and "logic" that he/it cannot be real. do you want to know God or don't you?

If there was a god I want him to reveal himself

THEN SO BE IT!

 

[nyota de la star]

Is there is any reason why atheists tend to debate religion and not spirituality? Honest question.