Why does everyone hate GM,Ford, and Chrysler so much now a days?

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by FDUB

Why have the build quality of American cars always been poor? I have been trying to figure that out for years.. Does anyone know?

Starts with cheap materials. They use textured or shiny plastic that is meant to emulate something that cost more but the material is so cheap they look cheap either way. Cheap materials equals cheap quality, some of the painted interior parts fade quick.
Then there's the assembly, it's put together horribly. I believe it all beings from the blueprint and how they make the parts connect and attach to each other and most are bad from the start. Plenty of rattling from the inside, parts coming apart, etc... 

These days, I feel build quality is better and materials have improved but not by much. Still too much cheap materials being used even on the Cadillacs. 

I always Thought cats nit pickin interiors was reachin... i mean da ZR1 has forged titanium innersIn da ls9 makin 600+ horses & magnetic ride control suspension but someone wants to whine about da dash "feelin cheap" smh.

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Lol get something foreign that can compete with a ZR1 or ZL1In da same price range. 

Key word is "compete" not beat, then here you go. Also keep in mind, this is $20k cheaper. And i think it did beat the ZR1 in the Ring in a stock-for-stock car.

Gt-r had da advantage cuz of sticky tires...vette beats it wit da same tires..& lets notEven talk about a drag race

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by FDUB

Why have the build quality of American cars always been poor? I have been trying to figure that out for years.. Does anyone know?

Starts with cheap materials. They use textured or shiny plastic that is meant to emulate something that cost more but the material is so cheap they look cheap either way. Cheap materials equals cheap quality, some of the painted interior parts fade quick.
Then there's the assembly, it's put together horribly. I believe it all beings from the blueprint and how they make the parts connect and attach to each other and most are bad from the start. Plenty of rattling from the inside, parts coming apart, etc... 

These days, I feel build quality is better and materials have improved but not by much. Still too much cheap materials being used even on the Cadillacs. 

  I always Thought cats nit pickin interiors was reachin... i mean da ZR1 has forged titanium innersIn da ls9 makin 600+ horses & magnetic ride control suspension but someone wants to whine about da dash "feelin cheap" smh.

Why not? Its a $100k+ car and the ZR1 has a plastic body. I know your all about power and all but other actually care about the interior and it not falling apart. I really see nothing wrong with that. You are fine with a 500hp V8 that has an interior made of plastic, that's fine, others would like to make a complete package. Again, it's not about speed for everyone. Like I said before, what the hell are you going to do with a car that can fo 0-60 in 3 seconds? Race every car on a stop? Go 200mph on the freeway everyday? At the end of the day, just like those who buy for luxury or badge, you're only impress by the numbers even if it will do nothing for you other than hear that engine as you go 45mph in a 35mph zone. 

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Lol get something foreign that can compete with a ZR1 or ZL1In da same price range. 

Key word is "compete" not beat, then here you go. Also keep in mind, this is $20k cheaper. And i think it did beat the ZR1 in the Ring in a stock-for-stock car.

Gt-r had da advantage cuz of sticky tires...vette beats it wit da same tires..& lets notEven talk about a drag race

Again, you said compete, not beat. ZR1 is the best in a straight line, I always say that and never deny it. But again, the GTR is $20k cheaper. 
As for the Ring times, it was never stated that GTR has sticky tires but it did say its run was in wet conditions. ZR1 and Z06 that beat the GTR had racing tires. In 2009 to 2009 comparison, ZR1 did beat the GTR by 0.00.3 seconds on both stock cars. The GTR was still cheaper then by about $25k-$30k. Now it's only $20k difference but beats a ZR1 w/o sticky tires in semi-wet conditions. I say that is a car that can compete. 

As for a drag race, GTR has managed 0-60 in 2.9 seconds ( http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/02/2012-nissan-gt-r-officially-goes-0-60-in-2-9-seconds/), MotorTrend clocked the ZR1 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, I believe it can get to 3 seconds flat but again to say the GTR can't compete is just ridiculous. The 2012 GTR with 530 hp can go 1/4 miles in 11.2 (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1102_2012_nissan_gt_r_test/viewall.html) seconds and the 2011 ZR1 was clocked at 11.5 seconds (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...010_porsche_911_turbo_comparison/viewall.html). The ZR1 is an amazing vehicle but it's not the end all be all of cars. 

 

[a55a5in11]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by a55a5in11

i see nothing american companies have that are better than imports.
always seem to be 5 years behind on their technology and use cheap parts.
just my opinion

Lol get something foreign that can compete with a ZR1 or ZL1In da same price range.& US truck & SUV game >>>*

i would rather own a m6, r8, aston martin vantage for that price.

 

[ryda421]

Chrysler imported from Detroit

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by RFX45


Starts with cheap materials. They use textured or shiny plastic that is meant to emulate something that cost more but the material is so cheap they look cheap either way. Cheap materials equals cheap quality, some of the painted interior parts fade quick.
Then there's the assembly, it's put together horribly. I believe it all beings from the blueprint and how they make the parts connect and attach to each other and most are bad from the start. Plenty of rattling from the inside, parts coming apart, etc... 

These days, I feel build quality is better and materials have improved but not by much. Still too much cheap materials being used even on the Cadillacs. 

  I always Thought cats nit pickin interiors was reachin... i mean da ZR1 has forged titanium innersIn da ls9 makin 600+ horses & magnetic ride control suspension but someone wants to whine about da dash "feelin cheap" smh.

Why not? Its a $100k+ car and the ZR1 has a plastic body. I know your all about power and all but other actually care about the interior and it not falling apart. I really see nothing wrong with that. You are fine with a 500hp V8 that has an interior made of plastic, that's fine, others would like to make a complete package. Again, it's not about speed for everyone. Like I said before, what the hell are you going to do with a car that can fo 0-60 in 3 seconds? Race every car on a stop? Go 200mph on the freeway everyday? At the end of the day, just like those who buy for luxury or badge, you're only impress by the numbers even if it will do nothing for you other than hear that engine as you go 45mph in a 35mph zone. 

Unlike "luxury interior trim" powertrain & performance never depreciates 500 horse power 40 years agoIs still 500 horses today..interiors that are cuttin edge now will be played in 5 years tops.Then where's da money u invested in? Gone.

 

[jrdnsrnss]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by ninjahood

my fave midsized sedan right now is da current ford fusion sport AWD...thing is clean

2013 Ford Fusion > Current Ford Fusion

Naw, they not fittin anythin bigger then 4 bangers in this poor mansAston... :-/

Nothing wrong with that, consumers are looking for fuel economy nowadays. You have to look at this as a very good thing, for years American car companies built cars people didn't want thus their sales took a tumble. Their finally seeing what consumers are looking for and are building cars based on what people want. These days the majority of people are looking for good fuel economy and this will give you exactly that. Think i read the 2013 Fusion energi plugin will give something close to 100 mpgE, which is better than the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf, in a midsize sedan. Can't beat that at all if thats what your looking for.

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Unlike "luxury interior trim" powertrain & performance never depreciates 500 horse power 40 years agoIs still 500 horses today..interiors that are cuttin edge now will be played in 5 years tops.Then where's da money u invested in? Gone.

That is not even true. 

A perfectly good 500hp engine 50 years ago will still make 500hp but with wear and tear and w/o changing much on the engine, you aren't going to get the same HP from a 40 year old car. Go try it, bring a well maintained 60's car (but not modded or had major work) to a dyno and see if you can produce the same power. 

And luxury interiors doesn't really depreciate, they get worn down just like engines and transmissions. It has nothing to do with being played either, look how many people still buy used cars and the interior shape and condition is what matters the most and what determines its depreciation. 

I really got nothing against American cars, I'm simply saying it the way I see it. I am perfectly happy accepting that some people like yourself are perfectly fine with having the power even if everything else lacks in quality, why can't you accept that people buy for the name or luxurious amenities. To some, those simply matters more.

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by jrdnsrnss

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by RFX45


2013 Ford Fusion > Current Ford Fusion

Naw, they not fittin anythin bigger then 4 bangers in this poor mansAston... :-/

Nothing wrong with that, consumers are looking for fuel economy nowadays. You have to look at this as a very good thing, for years American car companies built cars people didn't want thus their sales took a tumble. Their finally seeing what consumers are looking for and are building cars based on what people want. These days the majority of people are looking for good fuel economy and this will give you exactly that. Think i read the 2013 Fusion energi plugin will give something close to 100 mpgE, which is better than the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf, in a midsize sedan. Can't beat that at all if thats what your looking for.

I read that the i4 that is replacing the V6 will produce the same power while being more efficient so in the end, number-wise, it's better. I can understand the concern though as an i4 with that much power will likely be turboed and it'll have the lag that NA6 doesn't have. So in the end, it's just a compromise and it seems like the Fusion isn't really marketed to those who will worry too much whether their car can go 0-60 times much.

 

[tizoni]

After seeing and experiencing how crappy american cars have always been (especially with safety) I will still have a some "hate" for them..

 Seeing accidents with jeeps and their chassis cracked in half due to a front end collision on the freeway

 I don't think they got out of that one ok 

 

[jrdnsrnss]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by jrdnsrnss

Originally Posted by ninjahood



Naw, they not fittin anythin bigger then 4 bangers in this poor mansAston... :-/

Nothing wrong with that, consumers are looking for fuel economy nowadays. You have to look at this as a very good thing, for years American car companies built cars people didn't want thus their sales took a tumble. Their finally seeing what consumers are looking for and are building cars based on what people want. These days the majority of people are looking for good fuel economy and this will give you exactly that. Think i read the 2013 Fusion energi plugin will give something close to 100 mpgE, which is better than the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf, in a midsize sedan. Can't beat that at all if thats what your looking for.

I read that the i4 that is replacing the V6 will produce the same power while being more efficient so in the end, number-wise, it's better. I can understand the concern though as an i4 with that much power will likely be turboed and it'll have the lag that NA6 doesn't have. So in the end, it's just a compromise and it seems like the Fusion isn't really marketed to those who will worry too much whether their car can go 0-60 times much.

From what i've heard ecoboost motors experience almost no turbo lag, even in the 2.0 I4. Their paired with direct injection so it basically eliminates the lag. I haven't driven one so i can't say from experience, just what i've read online.

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by jrdnsrnss

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by jrdnsrnss

Nothing wrong with that, consumers are looking for fuel economy nowadays. You have to look at this as a very good thing, for years American car companies built cars people didn't want thus their sales took a tumble. Their finally seeing what consumers are looking for and are building cars based on what people want. These days the majority of people are looking for good fuel economy and this will give you exactly that. Think i read the 2013 Fusion energi plugin will give something close to 100 mpgE, which is better than the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf, in a midsize sedan. Can't beat that at all if thats what your looking for.

I read that the i4 that is replacing the V6 will produce the same power while being more efficient so in the end, number-wise, it's better. I can understand the concern though as an i4 with that much power will likely be turboed and it'll have the lag that NA6 doesn't have. So in the end, it's just a compromise and it seems like the Fusion isn't really marketed to those who will worry too much whether their car can go 0-60 times much.

From what i've heard ecoboost motors experience almost no turbo lag, even in the 2.0 I4. Their paired with direct injection so it basically eliminates the lag. I haven't driven one so i can't say from experience, just what i've read online.

My car has twin scroll turbo i4 with dfi and there is some lag and it isn't as smooth a NA6. Just from experience but overall, lag is very minimal and the normal driver will hardly notice it but that's a BMW engine. Not sure how Fords engine will compare, since the Fusion is not exactly a performance-minded vehicle, I think it'll be fine with any lag.

 

[fdub]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Unlike "luxury interior trim" powertrain & performance never depreciates 500 horse power 40 years agoIs still 500 horses today..interiors that are cuttin edge now will be played in 5 years tops.Then where's da money u invested in? Gone.

That is not even true. 

A perfectly good 500hp engine 50 years ago will still make 500hp but with wear and tear and w/o changing much on the engine, you aren't going to get the same HP from a 40 year old car. Go try it, bring a well maintained 60's car (but not modded or had major work) to a dyno and see if you can produce the same power. 

And luxury interiors doesn't really depreciate, they get worn down just like engines and transmissions. It has nothing to do with being played either, look how many people still buy used cars and the interior shape and condition is what matters the most and what determines its depreciation. 

I really got nothing against American cars, I'm simply saying it the way I see it. I am perfectly happy accepting that some people like yourself are perfectly fine with having the power even if everything else lacks in quality, why can't you accept that people buy for the name or luxurious amenities. To some, those simply matters more.


I will say that when I plan on buying a brand new car, the first thing I look at is the interior. I feel as though if you are buying a $40-60K Car, the interior shouldn't look cheap what so ever. The interior should be flawless, not cheap plastic to get over on the production cost. I remember when I was in the market for my first car a year in the half ago, I was looking at the 2002 Impala and my first reaction was, "Wow, That interior looks crappy and cheaply put together". Even though the Corvette is my dream car (2005-Present model), I think the interior does look real cheap for what they are charging for retail.. Just my opinion.

 

[jrdnsrnss]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by jrdnsrnss

Originally Posted by RFX45

I read that the i4 that is replacing the V6 will produce the same power while being more efficient so in the end, number-wise, it's better. I can understand the concern though as an i4 with that much power will likely be turboed and it'll have the lag that NA6 doesn't have. So in the end, it's just a compromise and it seems like the Fusion isn't really marketed to those who will worry too much whether their car can go 0-60 times much.

From what i've heard ecoboost motors experience almost no turbo lag, even in the 2.0 I4. Their paired with direct injection so it basically eliminates the lag. I haven't driven one so i can't say from experience, just what i've read online.

My car has twin scroll turbo i4 with dfi and there is some lag and it isn't as smooth a NA6. Just from experience but overall, lag is very minimal and the normal driver will hardly notice it but that's a BMW engine. Not sure how Fords engine will compare, since the Fusion is not exactly a performance-minded vehicle, I think it'll be fine with any lag.

Yeah i don't know much about BMW's new turbo'd motors, hell i don't even know much about the ecoboost, just stuff i've read online. Pretty good read on the ecoboost motor if your interested.

http://fordecoboostforum.com/index.php?/topic/331-ford-edge-gets-20l-ecoboost/

 

[ninjahood]

500 horse power engine thats 40 years old >>>>>>>> 40 year old luxury interior....thats not even a contest...

you can always rebuild that engine and make it pure brand new, are you gonna rebuild a 40 year old interior? lol....

 

[mangudai954]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

500 horse power engine thats 40 years old >>>>>>>> 40 year old luxury interior....thats not even a contest...

you can always rebuild that engine and make it pure brand new, are you gonna rebuild a 40 year old interior? lol....

People do it all the time?

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

500 horse power engine thats 40 years old >>>>>>>> 40 year old luxury interior....thats not even a contest...

you can always rebuild that engine and make it pure brand new, are you gonna rebuild a 40 year old interior? lol....

Or just replace it. Is it really so hard to understand? Have you seen Pimp Your Ride? West Coast Customs? Shows are corny these days but it clearly shows you can customize and change interiors just like you can change engines. Hell you can make the interior of an '85 Corolla look like a Benz if you have the money. You love muscle cars so I know you've seen people restore old Mustang and Camaro interiors so that it doesn't have ripped seats and faded dash. Just like rebuilding engines, you toss out the worn out parts, clean up what is still usable and then buy new ones for the ones you tossed out but your base structure is the same. 

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by ninjahood

500 horse power engine thats 40 years old >>>>>>>> 40 year old luxury interior....thats not even a contest...

you can always rebuild that engine and make it pure brand new, are you gonna rebuild a 40 year old interior? lol....

Or just replace it. Is it really so hard to understand? Have you seen Pimp Your Ride? West Coast Customs? Shows are corny these days but it clearly shows you can customize and change interiors just like you can change engines. Hell you can make the interior of an '85 Corolla look like a Benz if you have the money. You love muscle cars so I know you've seen people restore old Mustang and Camaro interiors so that it doesn't have ripped seats and faded dash. Just like rebuilding engines, you toss out the worn out parts, clean up what is still usable and then buy new ones for the ones you tossed out but your base structure is the same. 

i know that, but other then freshnin up a interior, its completely obsolete especially when you compare it to something that you will always feel, like torque and acceleration from a powerful engine.

point is, power never loses value, interior design fads come and go.

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by ninjahood

500 horse power engine thats 40 years old >>>>>>>> 40 year old luxury interior....thats not even a contest...

you can always rebuild that engine and make it pure brand new, are you gonna rebuild a 40 year old interior? lol....

Or just replace it. Is it really so hard to understand? Have you seen Pimp Your Ride? West Coast Customs? Shows are corny these days but it clearly shows you can customize and change interiors just like you can change engines. Hell you can make the interior of an '85 Corolla look like a Benz if you have the money. You love muscle cars so I know you've seen people restore old Mustang and Camaro interiors so that it doesn't have ripped seats and faded dash. Just like rebuilding engines, you toss out the worn out parts, clean up what is still usable and then buy new ones for the ones you tossed out but your base structure is the same. 

i know that, but other then freshnin up a interior, its completely obsolete especially when you compare it to something that you will always feel, like torque and acceleration from a powerful engine.

point is, power never loses value, interior design fads come and go.

But the engines are smoother these days, more efficient. 200hp  40 years ago is very fast, 200hp these days is mediocre. More and more of the old engines are being obsolete or upgraded. So in that sense, engine can also be a fad. A good interior design can stay classic and be very attractive, an old Bentley or Aston interior can still look good and luxurious once restored, just like old engines can be restored and tuned and come back to life. I don't even think I really need to explain that. Just because an interior doesn't look like it came from the present time or future doesn't mean it's not luxurious or comfortable anymore. Just like old engines, w/o any un-modded stock engine from 40-50 years ago really can;t compete with todays engine. You being a power hungry guy, would you really take a '65 Mustangs stock V8 engine that produces 270hp over the ZR1s 638hp stock V8? I really, really doubt it.

In the end though we are just not going to see here eye to eye  because you'll just keep dishing out stuff and it'll never end, no matter what number or fact I present. You say give you a car that competes with the ZR1, I give you the GTR. I gave numbers on how it got beat and lost, I provided price, which really makes it legible competitor, even beating the ZR1 in some cases. I told you the engine power depreciates when you were sure it doesn't. I told you interiors can be upgraded or restored like engines, which you assumed it can't. I compromised and said good for you and your HP hungry mind but others doesn't care about overwhelming power but you still can't accept it. I could keep going but really, whats the point?

 

[pinoy805jays]

Around my way all you see are 300s, chargers and tahoes. For trucks and suvs no ones topping gm. Lately ive been seeing a lot of the new camaros as well. American cars doing something right

 

[cw0974]

First of all, Gt-R is definitely the best performing car. Secondly, I still want to know what you drive ninja...

 

[mangudai954]

Originally Posted by cw0974

First of all, Gt-R is definitely the best performing car. Secondly, I still want to know what you drive ninja...

If its anything like his room I'd say Pinto with a 454.

 

[cw0974]

Originally Posted by Mangudai954

Originally Posted by cw0974

First of all, Gt-R is definitely the best performing car. Secondly, I still want to know what you drive ninja...

If its anything like his room I'd say Pinto with a 454.

hahaha pinto. what's wrong with his room?

 

[mangudai954]