American journalist, James Foley, beheaded by ISIS

PeterJamesThe3rd said:
sort of even alquda said these dudes crazy...
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Yea they initially started off as an offshoot of AQ during the Iraqi insurgency but they eventually became their own organization with their own goals and beliefs. Now AQ has even disassociated themslves from them because they deemed their methods too extreme :x.
 
703 Hwy said:
Them journalist need to stop going over there
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Wrong solution. Free People should be able to travel the world without fear of beheading by religious maniacs.
Sadly when you take a god as an absolute all logic and reason can be thrown out the window.
 
All of this makes me wanna throw up...like seriously vomit. Not even the beheading, but the fact that innocent people at any given second can just be taken and held captive. Can you imagine what those last minutes felt like for James and Steven? Just putting myself in their shoes legit makes me wanna vomit.

This is so sad man, brings a tear to my eye. Why does humanity have to go this far with things man.
 
shoeking2101 said:
All of this makes me wanna throw up...like seriously vomit. Not even the beheading, but the fact that innocent people at any given second can just be taken and held captive. Can you imagine what those last minutes felt like for James and Steven? Just putting myself in their shoes legit makes me wanna vomit.

This is so sad man, brings a tear to my eye. Why does humanity have to go this far with things man.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately world history is littered with examples of the lowest depths that humanity will go to win a war or force an ideology onto others.  Look at what the Vikings, Romans, Persians, and Greeks did to their enemies throughout their centuries of rule.  What is going on over there right now, has been going on for centuries in this region.  Various tribes have been at war with each other over religion and ideology forever and without a true industrial revolution that will give young men a way to support their families, extremism and despair will continue to plague one of the most historically rich areas in the entire world.  

I think we all have to view these extremist ideologies as a byproduct of poverty and hopelessness in an area of the world where industrialization and diversification of a free economy has not existed for many years if ever.  This has bred extremist ideologies which pray upon young men who have little or no hope for providing for their families.  I think we as Americans are extremely naive to the complicated nature of this region of the world.  The middle east needs industry and infrastructure that will lead to a shift away from dependence on natural resources like oil exportation.  Obama and Bush really had no long term plan in place to rescue this region as we see a group (ISIS) come to power within only a few years of our military leaving this region.  The seeds of extremism are rooted in poverty and hopelessness, and by simply training a few thousand Iraqi soldiers to defend a nation against a historical background of centuries of sectarian violence, I think the United States was absolutely wrong in our post-Saddam plan for this country.  If we really want to set this country up for success, we needed to build schools and universities along with factories for production of consumer goods.  We really needed to create jobs and industry to foster a true move into a free market society where religion and violence play little role.  Unfortunately without an educational and industrial base, poverty and hopelessness will continue to breed extremism and violence.    
 
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There are plenty if videos on YouTube of us soldiers that claimed they raped young girls, gang raped them, killed innocent civilians. Made daughters watch their mothers being raped and vice Versa.
Both sides are atrocious. Remember there is always 2 sides to every story and the truth.
 
beansietime said:
 
703 Hwy said:
Them journalist need to stop going over there
Click to expand...
Wrong solution. Free People should be able to travel the world without fear of beheading by religious maniacs.
Sadly when you take a god as an absolute all logic and reason can be thrown out the window.
Click to expand...
The key word there is "should".  It should be that way, but it isn't, unfortunately.

So I think a very real solution would be to stop going there.  Or go there knowing the risks and roll the dice.  

And "free" is such a relative term when you're a foreigner in an area of turmoil like the Middle East.  Sure, you're free in America.  But you're on THEIR land now....all bets are off, as is your claim to freedom, should they so choose to take it.  
 
360waves said:
There are plenty if videos on YouTube of us soldiers that claimed they raped young girls, gang raped them, killed innocent civilians. Made daughters watch their mothers being raped and vice Versa.
Both sides are atrocious. Remember there is always 2 sides to every story and the truth.
Click to expand...
Yep
 
Drones said:
Is ISIS a new terrorist group?  Are they affiliated to Al Qaeda?  Forgive my ignorance on this, I don't follow the Mid-East conflicts.
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For those who want a brief history on ISIS



EDIT: not working so here is the link

 
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superblyTRIFE said:
[thread="604360"]Quote:[/thread]
beansietime said:
 
703 Hwy said:
Them journalist need to stop going over there
Click to expand...
Wrong solution. Free People should be able to travel the world without fear of beheading by religious maniacs.

Sadly when you take a god as an absolute all logic and reason can be thrown out the window.
Click to expand...

The key word there is "should".  It should be that way, but it isn't, unfortunately.

So I think a very real solution would be to stop going there.  Or go there knowing the risks and roll the dice.  

And "free" is such a relative term when you're a foreigner in an area of turmoil like the Middle East.  Sure, you're free in America.  But you're on THEIR land now....all bets are off, as is your claim to freedom, should they so choose to take it.  
Click to expand...

The American and British governments don't pay ransoms for their kidnapped citizens; other Western countries do (and they pay a lot). That's why whenever a beheading happens, it always involves someone from either country. I don't know how many of you listen to NPR or their local affiliates on a regular basis, but if you do, you'll probably be familiar with the episode of Fresh Air which showcased an American journalist who found a bunch of documents detailing the day to day activities of the Malian Al Qaida affiliate. It is the terrorist groups' policy to target Westerners and to get money off of them from their respective governments.

So I agree with you that any American/British journalist that goes in the Middle East nowadays better have another passport; otherwise, their *** won't be covered by anyone.
 
metsn13 said:
Unfortunately world history is littered with examples of the lowest depths that humanity will go to win a war or force an ideology onto others.  Look at what the Vikings, Romans, Persians, and Greeks did to their enemies throughout their centuries of rule.  What is going on over there right now, has been going on for centuries in this region.  Various tribes have been at war with each other over religion and ideology forever and without a true industrial revolution that will give young men a way to support their families, extremism and despair will continue to plague one of the most historically rich areas in the entire world.  

I think we all have to view these extremist ideologies as a byproduct of poverty and hopelessness in an area of the world where industrialization and diversification of a free economy has not existed for many years if ever.  This has bred extremist ideologies which pray upon young men who have little or no hope for providing for their families.  I think we as Americans are extremely naive to the complicated nature of this region of the world.  The middle east needs industry and infrastructure that will lead to a shift away from dependence on natural resources like oil exportation.  Obama and Bush really had no long term plan in place to rescue this region as we see a group (ISIS) come to power within only a few years of our military leaving this region.  The seeds of extremism are rooted in poverty and hopelessness, and by simply training a few thousand Iraqi soldiers to defend a nation against a historical background of centuries of sectarian violence, I think the United States was absolutely wrong in our post-Saddam plan for this country.  If we really want to set this country up for success, we needed to build schools and universities along with factories for production of consumer goods.  We really needed to create jobs and industry to foster a true move into a free market society where religion and violence play little role.  Unfortunately without an educational and industrial base, poverty and hopelessness will continue to breed extremism and violence.    
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:pimp: :pimp: :pimp:
best thing I have read on NT in years.

I completely agree that if we helped developed the economy and educational system Iraq would be in such a better place. I mean at the end of the day it still comes down to their government for failing their people. I don't think I can blame us as much but it does goes both ways.

I give props to the Kurds for holding their own though. I hope we can keep giving them aid and help them fight off ISIS.
 
metsn13 said:
shoeking2101 said:
All of this makes me wanna throw up...like seriously vomit. Not even the beheading, but the fact that innocent people at any given second can just be taken and held captive. Can you imagine what those last minutes felt like for James and Steven? Just putting myself in their shoes legit makes me wanna vomit.


This is so sad man, brings a tear to my eye. Why does humanity have to go this far with things man.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately world history is littered with examples of the lowest depths that humanity will go to win a war or force an ideology onto others.  Look at what the Vikings, Romans, Persians, and Greeks did to their enemies throughout their centuries of rule.  What is going on over there right now, has been going on for centuries in this region.  Various tribes have been at war with each other over religion and ideology forever and without a true industrial revolution that will give young men a way to support their families, extremism and despair will continue to plague one of the most historically rich areas in the entire world.  

I think we all have to view these extremist ideologies as a byproduct of poverty and hopelessness in an area of the world where industrialization and diversification of a free economy has not existed for many years if ever.  This has bred extremist ideologies which pray upon young men who have little or no hope for providing for their families.  I think we as Americans are extremely naive to the complicated nature of this region of the world.  The middle east needs industry and infrastructure that will lead to a shift away from dependence on natural resources like oil exportation.  Obama and Bush really had no long term plan in place to rescue this region as we see a group (ISIS) come to power within only a few years of our military leaving this region.  The seeds of extremism are rooted in poverty and hopelessness, and by simply training a few thousand Iraqi soldiers to defend a nation against a historical background of centuries of sectarian violence, I think the United States was absolutely wrong in our post-Saddam plan for this country.  If we really want to set this country up for success, we needed to build schools and universities along with factories for production of consumer goods.  We really needed to create jobs and industry to foster a true move into a free market society where religion and violence play little role.  Unfortunately without an educational and industrial base, poverty and hopelessness will continue to breed extremism and violence.    
Click to expand...

That's very true and it also applies to pretty much every developing nation. The problem here is that the largest amount of money generated by those economies goes back to service a debt that will never get repaid in full because it's simply too large. That leaves very little funds to develop the social and economic aspects of their nations.In the event they decide to not pay and inject their funds in the local economy, they face sanctions such as limited access to major trading markets (hence making their resources useless) and to international capital. The repayment plans set up by the World Bank and the IMF do not take into account the social well-being of the indebted nations, and any leader foolish enough to prioritize his people is quickly "replaced"

To put it simply: the IMF and the World Bank are doing to poor countries what Sallie Mae is doing to indebted college graduates.

The book "The Debt Threat" goes into a lot more details about everything you said. You may - or may not - agree with the solutions proposed by the author, but it is a very good overview of how the national debt of poor countries creates extremists.
 
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Blaming poverty and lack of industrialization is a huge cop out. Many wealthy people fund terrorism. I knew it would come down to people basically saying "you have to see it from their perspective."
 
DubA169 said:
Blaming poverty and lack of industrialization is a huge cop out. Many wealthy people fund terrorism. I knew it would come down to people basically saying "you have to see it from their perspective."
Click to expand...


It's not a cop out, it's reality. Wealthy people fund terrorism, but they sure ain't the ones doing the fighting and the suicide bombing. Poor/disenchanted people are the ones who do. They're the people terrorist groups target as possible recruits, and many of them live in poorer countries/areas that offer very little in terms of economic opportunity. Boko Haram, ISIS, Al Shabab, etc... are successful at recruiting those kids and young adults because they're able to convince them that fighting for them will result in something better than graduating from the local university and selling fruits and second-hand clothes to make a living.

The ideological front against terrorism is economic: give enough people a stake in the current system, and they won't be so ready to tear it apart.
 
DubA169 said:
No.... I think they hate us because we are infidels.
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LOL. The irony is that they say 'We' hate them because they're Muslim.

Former CIA Officer Graham Fuller,

Fuller: I think the United States is one of the key creators of this organization. The United States did not plan the formation of ISIS, but its destructive interventions in the Middle East and the war in Iraq were the basic causes of the birth of ISIS. You will remember that that the starting point of this organization was to protest the US invasion of Iraq. In those days it was supported by many non-Islamist Sunnis as well because of their opposition to the Iraq's occupation. I think even today ISIS [now the Islamic State] is supported by many Sunnis who feel isolated by the Shiite government in Baghdad. ISIS was benefiting from the Shiite agenda of the [former Prime Minister Nouri al-] Maliki government. I hope with the departure of Maliki and his replacement by someone who will watch out for Sunni-Shiite balance, polarization in Iraq will diminish. This is the only way to get rid of ISIS, never militarily.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/pol...sa-iraq-syria-isis-fuller.html##ixzz3CHswA4fa
Click to expand...
 
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they just beheaded a british hostage :smh:
does anyone know of how many foreign hostages they have?
 
Train em, they turn heel, and now get rid of em :lol:

They'll prob never chop heads on American soil but lawd if they do come over here
 
Man, ish like this makes me want to stand by the CIA using waterboarding and other torture techniques when these animals are in our custody. They have no regard for human life, they should be treated the way they would treat us if we were in their custody. Just sickening.

People saying nuke that region? There are good people out there especially the Kurds who are actually taking arms and putting in more work than the Iraqi military. I fully back them and their cause to stop ISIS from their genocide and atrocities.
 
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