Thee Official LeBron James = Scottie Pippen and Dywane Wade = Michael Jordan for the 2011 Finals

[scoop0625]

doyung9 wrote:

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scoop99 wrote:

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Dade B0Y wrote:

---

 Wow.

Derrick Rose does not have a better chance than Lebron. 
  
How can you guys sit here and say that if Derrick Rose doesn't win 4-5 championships with the squad he has that he isn't making a better case for being a better player than LeBron James, hence, closer in overall ranking to Michael Jordan?



It is DRose style of play. I do not care that he averaged about 8 assists a game, because he is ball-dominant. If you are a star point guard on your team and taking the most shots while not being very efficient and getting turnovers, then the team will not win many championships. I never said that if DRose wins 4-5 championships, he would not be a better player than Lebron or closer to Jordan, but I do not seeing that squad win championships, but only the future can tell. But DRose has 4-5 championships and Lebron has one or zero, does it make DRose better than Lebron. I don't think so. The only case is that DRose would be a better teammate than Lebron if DRose wins multiple championships. Lebron brings more to the table than DRose. Unless, he changes his style of play, I do not see four or five rings, he will be lucky to have more than one on the way he is going. In the years of watching basketball. The only point guard who has scored as much points during the finals was Tony Parker, but he has two stars Timmy & Manu playing beside him and Parker hit over 50% of his shots just like the regular season.
  

 

[scoop0625]

doyung9 wrote:

---

scoop99 wrote:

---

Dade B0Y wrote:

---

 Wow.

Derrick Rose does not have a better chance than Lebron. 
  
How can you guys sit here and say that if Derrick Rose doesn't win 4-5 championships with the squad he has that he isn't making a better case for being a better player than LeBron James, hence, closer in overall ranking to Michael Jordan?



It is DRose style of play. I do not care that he averaged about 8 assists a game, because he is ball-dominant. If you are a star point guard on your team and taking the most shots while not being very efficient and getting turnovers, then the team will not win many championships. I never said that if DRose wins 4-5 championships, he would not be a better player than Lebron or closer to Jordan, but I do not seeing that squad win championships, but only the future can tell. But DRose has 4-5 championships and Lebron has one or zero, does it make DRose better than Lebron. I don't think so. The only case is that DRose would be a better teammate than Lebron if DRose wins multiple championships. Lebron brings more to the table than DRose. Unless, he changes his style of play, I do not see four or five rings, he will be lucky to have more than one on the way he is going. In the years of watching basketball. The only point guard who has scored as much points during the finals was Tony Parker, but he has two stars Timmy & Manu playing beside him and Parker hit over 50% of his shots just like the regular season.
  

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by wubbofett

Originally Posted by Matt Barkley Heisman Number 8

0? You talking about the number of rings lebronze has?

ting ding ding you are right my friend!

This is true but i see his point in that lebron accomplished more with less in his first few years then jordan. Now overall careers lol its laughable, but then again we are compairing one a team that is arguably one of the best assembled, two a player who had one of the best defenders of all time, at his position and a top 50 player. And three the fact that jordan is just an overall better player then lbj. That and the fact one has retired and career is done and the other is basically somewhere halfway thru his career.

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by wubbofett

Originally Posted by Matt Barkley Heisman Number 8

0? You talking about the number of rings lebronze has?

ting ding ding you are right my friend!

This is true but i see his point in that lebron accomplished more with less in his first few years then jordan. Now overall careers lol its laughable, but then again we are compairing one a team that is arguably one of the best assembled, two a player who had one of the best defenders of all time, at his position and a top 50 player. And three the fact that jordan is just an overall better player then lbj. That and the fact one has retired and career is done and the other is basically somewhere halfway thru his career.

 

[duba169]

The teams that MJ was going against while he was young are far superior to th eteams lebron was going against

 

[duba169]

The teams that MJ was going against while he was young are far superior to th eteams lebron was going against

 

[mr marcus]

Originally Posted by wubbofett

Originally Posted by Rudemiester

Originally Posted by ricky409

  

Hall of Fame execution.

 

[mr marcus]

Originally Posted by wubbofett

Originally Posted by Rudemiester

Originally Posted by ricky409

  

Hall of Fame execution.

 

[Sir San Diego]

That pic sequence has my ribs hurting.

 

[Sir San Diego]

That pic sequence has my ribs hurting.

 

[winged wheel]

Originally Posted by LDJ

This is true but i see his point in that lebron accomplished more with less in his first few years then jordan.

No he hasn't, Lebron has benefited from playing in an extremely watered down East. We both know that Cavs team wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs if they played in the mid to late 80's.

 

[winged wheel]

Originally Posted by LDJ

This is true but i see his point in that lebron accomplished more with less in his first few years then jordan.

No he hasn't, Lebron has benefited from playing in an extremely watered down East. We both know that Cavs team wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs if they played in the mid to late 80's.

 

[ldj]

DubA169 wrote:

---

The teams that MJ was going against while he was young are far superior to th eteams lebron was going against


that is very true, but he eventually had a team that was built around him that became a superior team something the cavs have never ever ever evere everevererererever did/going to do, that and those superior elite teams were on the downfall and the bulls were on the rise. and i will say not all those teams were great superior, the bulls didnt face the pistons,celts etc every night. lets not forget there were doo doo squads back then. Garbage teams just didnt come in existence the last decade or so there was the bullets, pacers in mj earlier career 76ers that where 30- win teams. And less face facts those teams arent any more superior then the wizards, knicks etc teams of this generation. You had your elite teams then and you have your elite teams now. Granted some of those teams were better then the elite teams now but that was basically only the pistons and the celtics and a decent hawks squad. I wouldnt exactly call the bucks, cavs etc of the mid late 80's early 90's some of the best teams in nba history.

 

[ldj]

DubA169 wrote:

---

The teams that MJ was going against while he was young are far superior to th eteams lebron was going against


that is very true, but he eventually had a team that was built around him that became a superior team something the cavs have never ever ever evere everevererererever did/going to do, that and those superior elite teams were on the downfall and the bulls were on the rise. and i will say not all those teams were great superior, the bulls didnt face the pistons,celts etc every night. lets not forget there were doo doo squads back then. Garbage teams just didnt come in existence the last decade or so there was the bullets, pacers in mj earlier career 76ers that where 30- win teams. And less face facts those teams arent any more superior then the wizards, knicks etc teams of this generation. You had your elite teams then and you have your elite teams now. Granted some of those teams were better then the elite teams now but that was basically only the pistons and the celtics and a decent hawks squad. I wouldnt exactly call the bucks, cavs etc of the mid late 80's early 90's some of the best teams in nba history.

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Originally Posted by LDJ

This is true but i see his point in that lebron accomplished more with less in his first few years then jordan.

No he hasn't, Lebron has benefited from playing in an extremely watered down East. We both know that Cavs team wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs if they played in the mid to late 80's.

um ok the only elite teams then were the pistons and the c's the cavs were decent and the hawks was decent moderately good. Look at the mid 80's teams etc stats. You do know that outside of those four teams 2 in which barely made 500. the rest didnt/barely even get 30 wins. When was the last time that every team in a conference except four teams won over 30 games? id like to see that in the late 90's 2000's hell show me were that has happen in any of the conferences. Back then it was pretty loopsided. You had the championship caliber elite teams, then garbage for the most part. Kinda like you do now. Granted those top teams today arent of the level for the most part the top teams then, But lets not act like the bucks,pacers,wizards etc are just horrid teams, and the 20/17 win teams of the bullets knicks 76's nets were these top tier teams. Lol i dont care what era you playing in a 24 58 team is garbage and not a top tier elite team no matter what era you are playing in.

  

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Originally Posted by LDJ

This is true but i see his point in that lebron accomplished more with less in his first few years then jordan.

No he hasn't, Lebron has benefited from playing in an extremely watered down East. We both know that Cavs team wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs if they played in the mid to late 80's.

um ok the only elite teams then were the pistons and the c's the cavs were decent and the hawks was decent moderately good. Look at the mid 80's teams etc stats. You do know that outside of those four teams 2 in which barely made 500. the rest didnt/barely even get 30 wins. When was the last time that every team in a conference except four teams won over 30 games? id like to see that in the late 90's 2000's hell show me were that has happen in any of the conferences. Back then it was pretty loopsided. You had the championship caliber elite teams, then garbage for the most part. Kinda like you do now. Granted those top teams today arent of the level for the most part the top teams then, But lets not act like the bucks,pacers,wizards etc are just horrid teams, and the 20/17 win teams of the bullets knicks 76's nets were these top tier teams. Lol i dont care what era you playing in a 24 58 team is garbage and not a top tier elite team no matter what era you are playing in.

  

 

[winged wheel]

Originally Posted by 2o6

and i love how u guys are getting at me for saying they lost in 7 in the ecf instead of the semifinals

all u guys is derail threads with slight inaccuracies as if it made any kind of differences in the argument.

do u know what round the bulls lost jordans first year? they didnt lose in any rounds

The reason your inaccuracies are pointed out are because you try to manipulate facts to strengthen a losing arguement. You tried to make it sound like Pippen led the Bulls to the brink of a 4-peat, which he didn't. The closest Scottie came to a 4-Peat was writing on the side of his shoes in the playoffs.It's really not hard to make someone like you look bad because you do a great job all by yourself.

Let's get to the facts and see you try to refute them.Michael Jordan's rookie year: [h1]1984-85 Chicago Bulls[/h1]
Playoffs:
Lost NBA Eastern Conference First Round (3-1) versus Milwaukee Bucks
Wait.....

I thought MJ's team didn't make the playoffs in his rookie season? MJ's team made the playoffs every single season of his career. Do everyone here a favor and learn the facts before you post and make an @$! out of yourself again.

 

[winged wheel]

Originally Posted by 2o6

and i love how u guys are getting at me for saying they lost in 7 in the ecf instead of the semifinals

all u guys is derail threads with slight inaccuracies as if it made any kind of differences in the argument.

do u know what round the bulls lost jordans first year? they didnt lose in any rounds

The reason your inaccuracies are pointed out are because you try to manipulate facts to strengthen a losing arguement. You tried to make it sound like Pippen led the Bulls to the brink of a 4-peat, which he didn't. The closest Scottie came to a 4-Peat was writing on the side of his shoes in the playoffs.It's really not hard to make someone like you look bad because you do a great job all by yourself.

Let's get to the facts and see you try to refute them.Michael Jordan's rookie year: [h1]1984-85 Chicago Bulls[/h1]
Playoffs:
Lost NBA Eastern Conference First Round (3-1) versus Milwaukee Bucks
Wait.....

I thought MJ's team didn't make the playoffs in his rookie season? MJ's team made the playoffs every single season of his career. Do everyone here a favor and learn the facts before you post and make an @$! out of yourself again.

 

[Jim Shady]

206 you clearly don't know your facts it didn't take mj 4 years to get smashed by the Celtics , pay attention
mjs first year they made the playoffs lost in 4 to the Milwaukee Bucks

second year lost round 1 to Boston set career/nba playoff record with 63 pts

year 3 lost first round to Boston

year 4 lost in ecsf to Detroit

year 5 lost to Detroit in ecf

year 6 lost to Detroit in ecf

year 7 won NBA championship

year 8 won NBA championship

year 9 won NBA championship record for most ppg in finals history also first team to three peat since a 60's or 70's Celtics team

after year and a half retired second round loss to Orlando

year 11 72 wins and NBA championship

year 12 NBA championship

year 13 NBA championship

 

[Jim Shady]

206 you clearly don't know your facts it didn't take mj 4 years to get smashed by the Celtics , pay attention
mjs first year they made the playoffs lost in 4 to the Milwaukee Bucks

second year lost round 1 to Boston set career/nba playoff record with 63 pts

year 3 lost first round to Boston

year 4 lost in ecsf to Detroit

year 5 lost to Detroit in ecf

year 6 lost to Detroit in ecf

year 7 won NBA championship

year 8 won NBA championship

year 9 won NBA championship record for most ppg in finals history also first team to three peat since a 60's or 70's Celtics team

after year and a half retired second round loss to Orlando

year 11 72 wins and NBA championship

year 12 NBA championship

year 13 NBA championship

 

[winged wheel]

Originally Posted by LDJ

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Originally Posted by LDJ

This is true but i see his point in that lebron accomplished more with less in his first few years then jordan.

No he hasn't, Lebron has benefited from playing in an extremely watered down East. We both know that Cavs team wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs if they played in the mid to late 80's.

um ok the only elite teams then were the pistons and the c's the cavs were decent and the hawks was decent moderately good. Look at the mid 80's teams etc stats. You do know that outside of those four teams 2 in which barely made 500. the rest didnt/barely even get 30 wins. When was the last time that every team in a conference except four teams won over 30 games? id like to see that in the late 90's 2000's hell show me were that has happen in any of the conferences. Back then it was pretty loopsided. You had the championship caliber elite teams, then garbage for the most part. Kinda like you do now. Granted those top teams today arent of the level for the most part the top teams then, But lets not act like the bucks,pacers,wizards etc are just horrid teams, and the 20/17 win teams of the bullets knicks 76's nets were these top tier teams. Lol i dont care what era you playing in a 24 58 team is garbage and not a top tier elite team no matter what era you are playing in.

  

Lets stay focused on the debate at hand here, you stated that Lebron accomplished more with less. That is a direct correlation to the era Lebron has played in. There hasn't been 1 elite team in the East in Lebron's career. Lets take a look at the last 10 Finals & the East representative.

[table][tr][td]
2009-10
[/td][td]
Los Angeles Lakers
[/td][td]
Boston Celtics
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2008-09
[/td][td]
Los Angeles Lakers
[/td][td]
Orlando Magic
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2007-08
[/td][td]
Boston Celtics
[/td][td]
Los Angeles Lakers
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2006-07
[/td][td]
San Antonio Spurs
[/td][td]
Cleveland Cavaliers
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2005-06
[/td][td]
Miami Heat
[/td][td]
Dallas Mavericks
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2004-05
[/td][td]
San Antonio Spurs
[/td][td]
Detroit Pistons
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2003-04
[/td][td]
Detroit Pistons
[/td][td]
Los Angeles Lakers
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2002-03
[/td][td]
San Antonio Spurs
[/td][td]
New Jersey Nets
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2001-02
[/td][td]
Los Angeles Lakers
[/td][td]
New Jersey Nets
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2000-01
[/td][td]
Los Angeles Lakers
[/td][td]
Philadelphia 76ers
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][/table]
With the exception of Boston, not one of those teams in the East were a consecutive threat year after year. Truth be told almost every east team has been a fluke, even my 1 hit wonder Pistons.

 

[winged wheel]

Originally Posted by LDJ

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Originally Posted by LDJ

This is true but i see his point in that lebron accomplished more with less in his first few years then jordan.

No he hasn't, Lebron has benefited from playing in an extremely watered down East. We both know that Cavs team wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs if they played in the mid to late 80's.

um ok the only elite teams then were the pistons and the c's the cavs were decent and the hawks was decent moderately good. Look at the mid 80's teams etc stats. You do know that outside of those four teams 2 in which barely made 500. the rest didnt/barely even get 30 wins. When was the last time that every team in a conference except four teams won over 30 games? id like to see that in the late 90's 2000's hell show me were that has happen in any of the conferences. Back then it was pretty loopsided. You had the championship caliber elite teams, then garbage for the most part. Kinda like you do now. Granted those top teams today arent of the level for the most part the top teams then, But lets not act like the bucks,pacers,wizards etc are just horrid teams, and the 20/17 win teams of the bullets knicks 76's nets were these top tier teams. Lol i dont care what era you playing in a 24 58 team is garbage and not a top tier elite team no matter what era you are playing in.

  

Lets stay focused on the debate at hand here, you stated that Lebron accomplished more with less. That is a direct correlation to the era Lebron has played in. There hasn't been 1 elite team in the East in Lebron's career. Lets take a look at the last 10 Finals & the East representative.

[table][tr][td]
2009-10
[/td][td]
Los Angeles Lakers
[/td][td]
Boston Celtics
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2008-09
[/td][td]
Los Angeles Lakers
[/td][td]
Orlando Magic
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2007-08
[/td][td]
Boston Celtics
[/td][td]
Los Angeles Lakers
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2006-07
[/td][td]
San Antonio Spurs
[/td][td]
Cleveland Cavaliers
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2005-06
[/td][td]
Miami Heat
[/td][td]
Dallas Mavericks
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2004-05
[/td][td]
San Antonio Spurs
[/td][td]
Detroit Pistons
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2003-04
[/td][td]
Detroit Pistons
[/td][td]
Los Angeles Lakers
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2002-03
[/td][td]
San Antonio Spurs
[/td][td]
New Jersey Nets
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2001-02
[/td][td]
Los Angeles Lakers
[/td][td]
New Jersey Nets
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
2000-01
[/td][td]
Los Angeles Lakers
[/td][td]
Philadelphia 76ers
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][/table]
With the exception of Boston, not one of those teams in the East were a consecutive threat year after year. Truth be told almost every east team has been a fluke, even my 1 hit wonder Pistons.

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Originally Posted by 2o6

and i love how u guys are getting at me for saying they lost in 7 in the ecf instead of the semifinals

all u guys is derail threads with slight inaccuracies as if it made any kind of differences in the argument.

do u know what round the bulls lost jordans first year? they didnt lose in any rounds

The reason your inaccuracies are pointed out are because you try to manipulate facts to strengthen a losing arguement. You tried to make it sound like Pippen led the Bulls to the brink of a 4-peat, which he didn't. The closest Scottie came to a 4-Peat was writing on the side of his shoes in the playoffs.It's really not hard to make someone like you look bad because you do a great job all by yourself.

Let's get to the facts and see you try to refute them.Michael Jordan's rookie year: [h1]1984-85 Chicago Bulls[/h1]
Playoffs:
Lost NBA Eastern Conference First Round (3-1) versus Milwaukee Bucks
Wait.....

I thought MJ's team didn't make the playoffs in his rookie season? MJ's team made the playoffs every single season of his career. Do everyone here a favor and learn the facts before you post and make an @$! out of yourself again.

Maybe not but ppl making it seem like mj basically was working with doo doo, and that the bulls were in shambles and basically lottery bound without him. The dropoff between when jordan left and lbj is/cant be compared, one remained a top tier team and had a amazing squad and a top 50 player with 50+ wins, and the other went lottery bound, having the worst turaround of any team in history. Yes ok the east was more competitive, and even that can be debated, but i just hate how ppl make it out like mj was mj of the jackson 5, and without him the bulls were nothing more then a bunch of marlons/ and or jackies. That insult should be reserved for this years cavs. not a team with a top 50 player one of the best to play his position, a hof coach, and at the time one of the leagues best shooters etc.

  

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Originally Posted by 2o6

and i love how u guys are getting at me for saying they lost in 7 in the ecf instead of the semifinals

all u guys is derail threads with slight inaccuracies as if it made any kind of differences in the argument.

do u know what round the bulls lost jordans first year? they didnt lose in any rounds

The reason your inaccuracies are pointed out are because you try to manipulate facts to strengthen a losing arguement. You tried to make it sound like Pippen led the Bulls to the brink of a 4-peat, which he didn't. The closest Scottie came to a 4-Peat was writing on the side of his shoes in the playoffs.It's really not hard to make someone like you look bad because you do a great job all by yourself.

Let's get to the facts and see you try to refute them.Michael Jordan's rookie year: [h1]1984-85 Chicago Bulls[/h1]
Playoffs:
Lost NBA Eastern Conference First Round (3-1) versus Milwaukee Bucks
Wait.....

I thought MJ's team didn't make the playoffs in his rookie season? MJ's team made the playoffs every single season of his career. Do everyone here a favor and learn the facts before you post and make an @$! out of yourself again.

Maybe not but ppl making it seem like mj basically was working with doo doo, and that the bulls were in shambles and basically lottery bound without him. The dropoff between when jordan left and lbj is/cant be compared, one remained a top tier team and had a amazing squad and a top 50 player with 50+ wins, and the other went lottery bound, having the worst turaround of any team in history. Yes ok the east was more competitive, and even that can be debated, but i just hate how ppl make it out like mj was mj of the jackson 5, and without him the bulls were nothing more then a bunch of marlons/ and or jackies. That insult should be reserved for this years cavs. not a team with a top 50 player one of the best to play his position, a hof coach, and at the time one of the leagues best shooters etc.

  

 

[Jim Shady]

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Originally Posted by 2o6

and i love how u guys are getting at me for saying they lost in 7 in the ecf instead of the semifinals

all u guys is derail threads with slight inaccuracies as if it made any kind of differences in the argument.

do u know what round the bulls lost jordans first year? they didnt lose in any rounds

The reason your inaccuracies are pointed out are because you try to manipulate facts to strengthen a losing arguement. You tried to make it sound like Pippen led the Bulls to the brink of a 4-peat, which he didn't. The closest Scottie came to a 4-Peat was writing on the side of his shoes in the playoffs.It's really not hard to make someone like you look bad because you do a great job all by yourself.

Let's get to the facts and see you try to refute them.Michael Jordan's rookie year: [h1]1984-85 Chicago Bulls[/h1]
Playoffs:
Lost NBA Eastern Conference First Round (3-1) versus Milwaukee Bucks
Wait.....

I thought MJ's team didn't make the playoffs in his rookie season? MJ's team made the playoffs every single season of his career. Do everyone here a favor and learn the facts before you post and make an @$! out of yourself again.

THIS and in that year following Mj's retirement where they lost to the knicks Pippen refused to enter a crucial game in the final seconds ( sorry can't remember if it was game 3 or 4 I pretty sure it was game 4) because Phil drew up a play where Scottie was a decoy and Kukoc would take the game winner , Toni nailed the shot any way with pip crying on the bench , what a great leader he was