Do people really believe in Angels?

[longstroke]

Checkout the year I joined, this rep thing is a new thing buddy and I could care less about it, baby girl.

Oh you are funny.

He still has more reps than you, in a short time. Deal with it.

 

[papageorgeo510]

Oh you are funny.

He still has more reps than you, in a short time. Deal with it.

ok girl

 

[ice shattered]

I never really understood the "i have my reasons" argument for believing. I mean what about the kid that was born in poverty, homeless, not a dollar in the world does he have no reason to believe? What are his reasons to believe? He has nothing, no good luck, lives on the streets. It kind of sounds like a biased attribution instead of an actual belief in a high power/God.You should believe no matter what circumstances if you actually believe, otherwise it kind of sounds like you're waiting for proof or a happening to change your mind. With that said if the kid/guy/whoever were to hit the lottery and his luck changes does he now have a reason to believe since a fortunate event happened, is that now his "reason(s)" to believe?

 

[longstroke]

ok girl

What are you, twelve? You think that calling someone a girl, is somehow an insult? 

Really?

 

[gatzbygordon]

future md won this thread just like romney won the debate last night..

you are getting replys that are 2 sentences long and in return you respond with a novel dissecting every word and trying to twist it around, the question was do people really believe in angels people answered,it wasnt a PROVE angels and souls exist thread..you won the internet now go get laid.

 

[boys noize]

Hold up.  Who told you that, and believing that you are some how very distant cousins to shrimp is equally if not more ******ed.  Now thats somthing to laugh about

Who told me that? Your Bible did. You've got your god figure passing down rules about adultery, sex out of wedlock, whom his "chosen people" could marry, sodomy, etc.

Mentions of cancer? Malaria? or anything we now know about disease via what science has taught us? Nil.

 

[offwhitewhite]

I hope the rest of NT notices the trend here.

When you get the theists to recognize the holes in their arguments they:

1. Make fun of the time you spend on NT

2. Call you names

3. Assert that you must be gay...or something.

4. make assumptions about the person they THINK you are offline

5. insinuate that you're some sort of sociopath

6. Say that you just "love to debate"...as if we wouldn't do that on a message board 

7. they introduce other topics as a way to draw attention away from the original topic.

8. they don't answer direct questions.

Keep reaching. 

You're not interested in learning because if you were you wouldn't come to NT to learn....Let's be honest, NT is probably the most ignorant online community. You could go to reddit, LUI, or any other site where they actively discuss these issues. You come here to "flex". 

You're saying I have no evidence of what a soul is but you have no evidence that there isn't a soul. You say it's cognition and if that makes you happy, I respect it but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not trying to fill in the gaps with my imagination because I'm content with not knowing and accepting it. You have to accept that there are people who have different beliefs. 

I'm talking about the summation of all the things I stated and then some. 

Animals have cognition as well. We aren't the same as them. 

Like I said, there's no physical evidence of our dreams, thoughts or memories. Funny how you can have memories for a lifetime but there's physical evidence that they exist. Where exactly are they stored? Why is so hard to believe that souls exist when dreams exist. You know how crazy it sounds that every night when you go to sleep you travel to INFINITE worlds where you can see, feel, smell everything and or everyone you want. But it happens every night, to everyone but NO ONE can prove dreams are real.

People have no problem accepting that there's holes in their argument but that doesn't mean they have to agree with you. That's what you have to learn to get over. Especially when we're talking about topics that require faith.

There are many things in this world that I'm content with saying I don't know. But once more proof comes out and I read it and evaluate it MYSELF I'll come to the conclusion on whether or not I believe it. I don't think it's fair to pick apart people with beliefs and when they ask you how you feel about it you say "I don't know". 

The problem isn't what you believe in, it's how you come across. I actually agree with 90% of what you say but you come off like a sociopath. I know, I know "you don't care" but you should if you're as active as you are. It's literally, "if you don't explain your beliefs to me in a way I find suitable YOU ARE DUMB". Dude, that's so selfish and disrespectful.

You're the one who calls people names and makes assumptions on how dumb people are ALL THE TIME, so I don't see where that's coming from. 

I'm loggin now.

 

[longstroke]

I never really understood the "i have my reasons" argument for believing. I mean what about the kid that was born in poverty, homeless, not a dollar in the world does he have no reason to believe? What are his reasons to believe? He has nothing, no good luck, lives on the streets. It kind of sounds like a biased attribution instead of an actual belief in a high power/God.You should believe no matter what circumstances if you actually believe, otherwise it kind of sounds like you're waiting for proof or a happening to change your mind. With that said if the kid/guy/whoever were to hit the lottery and his luck changes does he now have a reason to believe since a fortunate event happened, is that now his "reason(s)" to believe?

Some would say that when born under those circumstances, that when you begin to believe in yourself, that you are actually believing in God as well. It's a spark, that thing that awakens you, your will to survive.  

 

[futuremd]

Emotion? Thats it? 

Then its not a thing. Its a psychological state. 

Hmmm, not so much a psychological state, as  much as having a connection to others.

See, but even then, thats just a social understanding.

Thats not a "soul" 

Otherwise "democracy" is the "soul"

 

[mp3911]

I haven't had any reason to believe that angels exist. If there is any empirical evidence pointing to their existence, I'd appreciate it if you directed me to it.

 

[futuremd]

future md won this thread just like romney won the debate last night..

you are getting replys that are 2 sentences long and in return you respond with a novel dissecting every word and trying to twist it around, the question was do people really believe in angels people answered,it wasnt a PROVE angels and souls exist thread..you won the internet now go get laid.

See this is what I'm talking about.

You take the time to give detailed responses  but now it turns into "you don't get laid"

PLEASE tell me when that last time was. I'm curious to see when you seem to know the last time that was. 

 

[ice shattered]

Some would say that when born under those circumstances, that when you begin to believe in yourself, that you are actually believing in God as well. It's a spark, that thing that awakens you, your will to survive.  

Not trying to argue back and forth etc but wouldn't that be a basic human instinct? I have no food/shelter/clothes, I need to find all of the above to survive. So God creates that hole so you can dig yourself out of it so that you'll believe in yourself but all the while you're actually believing in God/higher power because that said God/higher power is giving you the strength to overcome all of the circumstances?

 

[boys noize]

Wow this thread deteriorated quick we've got people name calling now. Maturity levels at an all time low.

 

[cashusclay]

ok girl

You called homie a girl?

 

[gatzbygordon]

See this is what I'm talking about.

You take the time to give detailed responses  but now it turns into "you don't get laid"

PLEASE tell me when that last time was. I'm curious to see when you seem to know the last time that was. 

touchy touchy, i didnt say you dont get laid you did..i should've said go get some fresh air..you claim to be so intelligent yet lack basic comprehension skills.

 

[longstroke]

See, but even then, thats just a social understanding.

Thats not a "soul" 

Otherwise "democracy" is the "soul"

You say that you've been around the dying. Once the person has deceased, did you have the chance to look them in the eye as they passed?

If so, was there a difference in their presence when they passed? Any less of a feeling, or connection? 

 

[relli45]

I have been RIGHT NEXT TO SOMEONE AS THEY DIED AND I HAVE BEEN AROUND CADAVERS.

WHAT IS A SOUL AND WHERE IS IT?

WHY? I don't know. 

Why do you breathe and eat down the same tube? 

HOW do we use it? Its used to have extreme/intense dreams and is theorized to be released when you die, however I don't completely understand the studies behind the latter claim. How are the measuring that release and how aware are they that the release of this chemical is that much more present than other chemicals? 

There is a lot of research with it though and I'm interested to see what it leads to.

However, how does that have ANYTHING to do with the soul or anything supernatural? 

Chemicals altering the state of perception does NOT then mean = God. 

Cause you keep bringing up cadaver like your insinuating that you've looked throw the body for scientific evidence of a soul or a compartment for a soul.  When actuality just like you've stated science doesn't have all the answer.  So to ask for scientific evidence of where the soul is makes no sense.  Especially when you yourself say science doesn't have all the answers, and some of the answers they do have are not answers at all.  More like insinuations.  Like evolution.

But to stop toying with you, and beating around the bush.  Not like your going to try to understand anyway.  I spent three days in ICU literally three entire days.  It was all good until the wee morning of the third day and all hope was out the window, and from that point until the end the lights where trippin for the entire time.  After it was all said and done everything went back to normal.  But I'm sure there was some type of scientific explanation, right?  The electricians where doing some work.

You want evidence of something you don't believe in.  Something that you need to believe in to get evidence.  God is not going to be out to prove himself to someone who doesn't believe in him in the first place.  If I called you out for being a fake fonie this, you ain't going to be no doctor that.  Would you bend over backwards to prove yourself to me?  No, you'd keep on with your mission to help the ones that do believe in you.  Why?  Because you know that no matter what evidence you bring showing me your the real deal I'm still going to discard it and continue to mock you.  Why?  Because I don't want to believe in you.

What is scientific proof?  Who even gives a F about it?  Scientist and people that dedicated most of there life to it.  Instead of being out experiencing feelings, living life to the fullest, and allowing there mind explore it's own logic.  Feelings don't have scientific proof either other then measuring brian activity which prayer is also measureable as well.  Belief in God is not scientific and it will never be.  It's a personal thing that science will never prove for you.  Only you can you allow God to prove himself to you.

And UFO's are angels. 

And there are good angels and bad angels

 

[longstroke]

Not trying to argue back and forth etc but wouldn't that be a basic human instinct? I have no food/shelter/clothes, I need to find all of the above to survive. So God creates that hole so you can dig yourself out of it so that you'll believe in yourself but all the while you're actually believing in God/higher power because that said God/higher power is giving you the strength to overcome all of the circumstances?

Let's be clear, I didn't suggest that God created anything. What I did suggest is that some feel that once you begin to learn how to survive, that this is when you begin to know and worship God, especially under those circumstances. The absence of God, lies in not knowing how to survive.

It's a very fundamental belief. You do what you gotta do, as it's stated that the first right of every human being, is self preservation.

 

[papageorgeo510]

What are you, twelve? You think that calling someone a girl, is somehow an insult? 

Really?

Sounds like you hurt your ovaries.

 

[frankmatthews]

I'm just curious as to what exactly constitutes proof or evidence of angels/spirits/ ghosts or even god for that matter? I'm mean, who wouldn't like proof? I think most would like to know with a reasonable degree of certainty if any of this stuff exists but I'm just thinking to myself, what would that even look like? A picture/video? Some sort of molecular breakdown of an apparently intangible "thing"? I mean, does classical physics even apply here? Who knows. More directly, what exactly would it take for believing in the above mentioned to not seem like such a silly proposition?

Say this is 1700 and you want to prove that intangible electrical frequency can carry moving images across vast distances, how would you do it? I'd imagine you'd have a tough time even explaining what you are talking about let alone proving it. Would one say this is not a truth? It only becomes a truth when we, as humans, develop our understandings sufficiently enough to make it a truth, to become aware of that potential in nature? Or to prove it, so to speak?

One shouldn't be so adamant about what exists and what doesn't because there always lingers the possibility that you're just too stupid to know it.

I think it was Plato or perhaps Socrates that said "It is the wise man who knows that he knows only what he can prove." Or something like that.

 

[relli45]

Who told me that? Your Bible did. You've got your god figure passing down rules about adultery, sex out of wedlock, whom his "chosen people" could marry, sodomy, etc.
Mentions of cancer? Malaria? or anything we now know about disease via what science has taught us? Nil.

Don't try to quote a book you've never even read.

 

[futuremd]

I hope the rest of NT notices the trend here.

When you get the theists to recognize the holes in their arguments they:

1. Make fun of the time you spend on NT

2. Call you names

3. Assert that you must be gay...or something.

4. make assumptions about the person they THINK you are offline

5. insinuate that you're some sort of sociopath

6. Say that you just "love to debate"...as if we wouldn't do that on a message board 

7. they introduce other topics as a way to draw attention away from the original topic.

8. they don't answer direct questions.

Keep reaching. 

You're not interested in learning because if you were you wouldn't come to NT to learn....Let's be honest, NT is probably the most ignorant online community. You could go to reddit, LUI, or any other site where they actively discuss these issues. You come here to "flex". 

Not my problem. You've got people in here making assertions that they can't back up. Then when asked, they come back saying "well I don't need to show you anything"

Well now we have a problem because you're just refusing to be responsible for the claims you're making. 

You're saying I have no evidence of what a soul is but you have no evidence that there isn't a soul.

Burden of proof is on the person making the claim.

I don't assert that there is a soul. I don't even know what that is and no one is making a claim for what that is, or where it even is. 

People are just making stuff up and sticking with whatever they want to be true. 

If you make a claim, you're responsible for supporting it. 

You say it's cognition and if that makes you happy, I respect it but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not trying to fill in the gaps with my imagination because I'm content with not knowing and accepting it. You have to accept that there are people who have different beliefs. 

I


I don't do this "be content with beliefs"

That doesn't fly with me.

If you CHOOSE to present your beliefs, then you don't get to act surprised when people poke holes in it. 

I accept that people believe different things, but WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THESE THINGS ACTUALLY BEING VERIFIED?

You also have the choice of NOT sharing your beliefs. 

I'm talking about the summation of all the things I stated and then some. 

Animals have cognition as well. We aren't the same as them. 

SO?

Like I said, there's no physical evidence of our dreams, thoughts or memories. Funny how you can have memories for a lifetime but there's physical evidence that they exist. Where exactly are they stored?

NEURONS.

LONG TERM SYNAPTICAL POTENTIATION? 

Why is so hard to believe that souls exist when dreams exist.

Dreams exist?

Thats news to me. 

You know how crazy it sounds that every night when you go to sleep you travel to INFINITE worlds where you can see, feel, smell everything and or everyone you want. But it happens every night, to everyone but NO ONE can prove dreams are real.

Dreams are limited only to experiences you have or things you know.

Think about this. 

Granted you can bend the reality of those worlds, but you're limited to your experiences of how you can manipulate those "dreams"

People have no problem accepting that there's holes in their argument but that doesn't mean they have to agree with you. That's what you have to learn to get over. Especially when we're talking about topics that require faith.

Faith is a poor reason to adopt a stance. In fact, I won't settle for it. 

Invoking faith is a tactic used by those who don't have reasons to actually support their claims.

There are many things in this world that I'm content with saying I don't know.

So am I.

Thats why you should learn not to assert things that you can't support. 

 But once more proof comes out and I read it and evaluate it MYSELF I'll come to the conclusion on whether or not I believe it. I don't think it's fair to pick apart people with beliefs and when they ask you how you feel about it you say "I don't know". 

Actually I don't think thats accurate either.

See, if something is true, then it should be true, real, or valid, regardless of who is observing it.

You shouldn't believe things because you want to believe them. You should believe things because you can actually prove them to be true.

Otherwise, you'll never know if something is true because you're just believing things because its comfortable. 

The problem isn't what you believe in, it's how you come across. I actually agree with 90% of what you say but you come off like a sociopath. I know, I know "you don't care" but you should if you're as active as you are. It's literally, "if you don't explain your beliefs to me in a way I find suitable YOU ARE DUMB". Dude, that's so selfish and disrespectful.

I actually don't say anyone is "dumb"

The problem is that when you start pressing people on these things, they reveal how faulty the reasons for supporting it really are.

Thats the problem.

I have NO problem defending an idea or supporting something I think is true. ...because its provable. There are facts. There is evidence. 

I don't care how "selfish" you think it is. Because that doesn't matter. 

What matters is the arguments themselves. If your argument doesn't stand on its own, then you don't get to cry foul when you get called out on it.

If you dont like that, you should do a better job of presenting a better argument. 

You're the one who calls people names and makes assumptions on how dumb people are ALL THE TIME, so I don't see where that's coming from. 

I'm loggin now.

Who did I call names? 

Please show me.

However, I will NOT hesitate to share my thoughts about the ARGUMENTS themselves. If you can't separate yourself from your argument, then I'm not going to do it for you.

 

[longstroke]

Sounds like you hurt your ovaries.

Wow, I guess you've told me!

 

[papageorgeo510]

Wow, I guess you've told me!

You about reps right? I just gave you one on your last respond to me. Happy now, buddy?

 

[futuremd]

I'm just curious as to what exactly constitutes proof or evidence of angels/spirits/ ghosts or even god for that matter? I'm mean, who wouldn't like proof? I think most would like to know with a reasonable degree of certainty if any of this stuff exists but I'm just thinking to myself, what would that even look like? A picture/video? Some sort of molecular breakdown of an apparently intangible "thing"? I mean, does classical physics even apply here? Who knows. More directly, what exactly would it take for believing in the above mentioned to not seem like such a silly proposition?

Say this is 1700 and you want to prove that intangible electrical frequency can carry moving images across vast distances, how would you do it? I'd imagine you'd have a tough time even explaining what you are talking about let alone proving it. Would one say this is not a truth? It only becomes a truth when we, as humans, develop our understandings sufficiently enough to make it a truth, to become aware of that potential in nature? Or to prove it, so to speak?

One shouldn't be so adamant about what exists and what doesn't because there always lingers the possibility that you're just too stupid to know it.

I think it was Plato or perhaps Socrates that said "It is the wise man who knows that he knows only what he can prove." Or something like that.

This is the only thing I disagree with you on, is what I highlighted.

I don't want to be adamant about what exists and what doesn't exist.

I want to be adamant about the value of evidence and proof over wild assertions and speculation.

If you're going to assert something, you are responsible for substantiating that claim. Period. 

Anyone can craft a theory while sitting on the toilet or lounging on the couch when they're high.