ESPN NBA Analyst Ric Bucher says DROSE is Better than LEBRON?!

[bostonmarc]

Wonder what Drose would be like if he was 6'8"

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

He would be a Bron clone athletically.

But as far as an all around player, he wouldn't be as good. As I don't see him w/ the passing ability which further makes Lebron, 'Lebron'

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

He would be a Bron clone athletically.

But as far as an all around player, he wouldn't be as good. As I don't see him w/ the passing ability which further makes Lebron, 'Lebron'

 

[kn0wledgeable]

I see lebron stans are going to become like the Kobe stans of the past. Or maybe the Kobe stans have migrated their slurpage to lebron now that Kobe is coming to the end of his prime.

Must taste like chicken huh?

 

[kn0wledgeable]

I see lebron stans are going to become like the Kobe stans of the past. Or maybe the Kobe stans have migrated their slurpage to lebron now that Kobe is coming to the end of his prime.

Must taste like chicken huh?

 

[doublejs07]

Funny thing is, folks are quick to say that Lebron's athleticism has declined (which is a stretch) therefore he won't be as good of a player as the years go by. However, he has quietly reinvented himself as a basketball player and is now more dangerous in other aspects of his game (mid-range/post-up). He has set the groundwork for being an extremely productive and DOMINANT basketball player as he approaches his late 20's and beyond. Let's also not forget that he's one of the smartest players in the NBA. We've all seen guys like Mike/Kobe/etc do amazing things when they are over the age of 30. Lebron will be the same way. This dude isn't anywhere close to falling off.

 

[doublejs07]

Funny thing is, folks are quick to say that Lebron's athleticism has declined (which is a stretch) therefore he won't be as good of a player as the years go by. However, he has quietly reinvented himself as a basketball player and is now more dangerous in other aspects of his game (mid-range/post-up). He has set the groundwork for being an extremely productive and DOMINANT basketball player as he approaches his late 20's and beyond. Let's also not forget that he's one of the smartest players in the NBA. We've all seen guys like Mike/Kobe/etc do amazing things when they are over the age of 30. Lebron will be the same way. This dude isn't anywhere close to falling off.

 

[thesimplestlife]

Originally Posted by nyk buc

Originally Posted by thesimplestlife

Originally Posted by Rolaholic

Rose himself said that "It's extremely hard where a 6-8 guy can easily defend you". How can people still say that he has no jumper when he shot 51% and shot 45% from mid-range,the best numbers of his career. All his shooting %'s were better than Rose this year and overall he had better offensive numbers than rose despite the fact that he's also playing with one of the best offensive players in the league.. How exactly would you say that he's limited when he can score from virtually anywhere. What can Rose do more? Prettier lay ups? Explain. Not salty,just curious.

Rose is a great player all around but to say that he has a better offensive game is questionable since he put up worse offensive numbers being the number 1 scoring option on his team than LeBron who's had to share the load with D-Wade. Even during the post-season,Rose hasn't played like the MVP he was during the season while LeBron has been the best player in these playoffs with Dirk.

you've been watching the playoffs right? Then haven't you noticed how every team has been playing defense on Rose? You act like Rose is playing worse than he usually does because he can't beat one man off the dribble. No, teams are throwing the kitchen sink at him to stop his dominance:  Trapping, Double teaming, and triple teaming him in some instances. Now you cant honestly say teams are playing that type of defense on Lebron, can you? You know why they aren't...Well because he has Wade and Bosh, who both can score too. So you can't say well his numbers suck and doesn't look like the MVP yada yada yada..teams are going crazy defending him. The other bulls will need to be a bit more effective. You can contribute those numbers you said to what I just said, he has Wade and Bosh to help space the floor for him.
Now to compare their offensive games I will say this..IMO Rose has a better mid-range game. His mid range game is right up there with the best in the league and his release is fast enough that he can get it off at anytime. Lebron is a bit different, if he's not driving it's like you almost know what he's going to do. He'll probably do a little jab step then take a step back 3 or something like that. Yea, yea sometimes he will hit that little fade away mid range shot but that's really about it.  I also feel Rose drives better than Lebron,  and not b/c his layups are prettier either. Rose has more moves to get the hoop, while Lebron uses his god given build to almost plow his way to the hole. Rose can finish with EITHER hand equally while I'm not sure anyone in the league can do that up to par with him. Rose also has a bigger variety of shots he can make like Floaters, runners, and pull ups. When it comes down to it, I think Lebron's offensive game is good but there are other people in the league who have better ones than him, not just Rose. But luckily, Lebron is built so well for basketball that those flaws I just mentioned hardly surface. 

mike bibby is giving him the rondo treatment brother. and they only throw the kitchen sink at him when he uses the pick and roll. if he doesn't use that, the heat do NOT double him. what rose is facing isn't any different when you're the single star of a team like AI, tmac, kobe, lebron, wade faced. 
who cares if lebron has god-given ability or whatever you may think. jordan doesn't have god-given quickness and athleticism at 6-6? or his god-given big hands? you're going to use that against lebron? 

jordan was the best player in the L regardless of who you used to compare to him back then. kobe was the best player in the L for a 4-5 year stretch regardless of who you compared to him with. they were never one of the best 3pt shooters, but that shouldn't hurt their argument. they were not the best playmakers, but that shouldn't hurt their argument. and so on.

the best player is the player who literally dominates every matchups every game he goes out, whether that player is an average player or a superstar. that player outshines everybody on most nights. lebron is that player right now, as he can do that on BOTH ends. 

So your saying that at the time of Shaq's most dominant years (Late 90's to early 2000s) he was the best player in the world? Yes he won MVP, but could you actually say he was the best player in the world? Come on,...dominance is one thing but being just the overly better player is another. Going back to those Shaq years, I felt that AI was actually the best in the world (late 90s (after Jordan left) to early 2000s).Also, I'm not using Lebron's physique against him, I'm just pointing out the obvious. Jordan's all around game was amazing..His mid-range game can actually be considered the best of all time. You can actually see hints of that same game in Kobe. Now I'm not saying Kobe is on Jordan's level or anything like that, but you can see where Kobe took a lot of his game from. Jordan and Kobe are so crafty when it comes to playing. You will literally see Kobe start to back somebody down from the 3pt line and then work into the desired position he wants to get. He has developed this game that is almost offensively perfect. It's crazy how his game has turned from that of an electric shooting guard/ very good player into one who uses his wits and knowledge of the game to do whatever he wants on the floor. 
Now if you're looking at Rose's game and his shooting % people would compare that to one of the players you mentioned-A.I. However, Rose isn't in the same position as A.I. was back in '01 when he had a bunch of bums around him and still took them to the finals. No, the bulls have some good players-Deng, Noah, Boozer(on some nights), etc..but still, it's not like how Jordan had Pippen or Kukoc or Kerr (since Korver isn't showing up). Plus if you look at Kobe and his championship years, he had good or legendary players around him (Shaq, Pau, Big Shot Horry, defensive minded Artest, etc).my point is nobody can do it alone. So yes, Jordan was killing people and was the best every night but you have to include the other players on his team as well. Jordan had Pippen, Kukoc, Kerr, Armstrong, people who would hit their shots if left alone. Rose has good players around them, but they're either not hitting their shots(Korver) or just don't feel comfortable shooting at all. Also, you can't be serious about the D they are playing on Rose. Be honest, when was the last time you've seen somebody pressed so hard all the time he has the ball. You know this was sort of happening to Lebron when he was at Cleveland. People were saying that he choked or gave up or crap like that. Well if you look back at it, the teams playing Lebron  then were not going to let Lebron beat them, they wanted somebody else to step up, the thing is, nobody else did. But now in Miami Lebron is "the closer". You know why Lebron is closing out games like he is now? I already stated this but w/e...Wade and Bosh help to space the floor for him.

 

[thesimplestlife]

Originally Posted by nyk buc

Originally Posted by thesimplestlife

Originally Posted by Rolaholic

Rose himself said that "It's extremely hard where a 6-8 guy can easily defend you". How can people still say that he has no jumper when he shot 51% and shot 45% from mid-range,the best numbers of his career. All his shooting %'s were better than Rose this year and overall he had better offensive numbers than rose despite the fact that he's also playing with one of the best offensive players in the league.. How exactly would you say that he's limited when he can score from virtually anywhere. What can Rose do more? Prettier lay ups? Explain. Not salty,just curious.

Rose is a great player all around but to say that he has a better offensive game is questionable since he put up worse offensive numbers being the number 1 scoring option on his team than LeBron who's had to share the load with D-Wade. Even during the post-season,Rose hasn't played like the MVP he was during the season while LeBron has been the best player in these playoffs with Dirk.

you've been watching the playoffs right? Then haven't you noticed how every team has been playing defense on Rose? You act like Rose is playing worse than he usually does because he can't beat one man off the dribble. No, teams are throwing the kitchen sink at him to stop his dominance:  Trapping, Double teaming, and triple teaming him in some instances. Now you cant honestly say teams are playing that type of defense on Lebron, can you? You know why they aren't...Well because he has Wade and Bosh, who both can score too. So you can't say well his numbers suck and doesn't look like the MVP yada yada yada..teams are going crazy defending him. The other bulls will need to be a bit more effective. You can contribute those numbers you said to what I just said, he has Wade and Bosh to help space the floor for him.
Now to compare their offensive games I will say this..IMO Rose has a better mid-range game. His mid range game is right up there with the best in the league and his release is fast enough that he can get it off at anytime. Lebron is a bit different, if he's not driving it's like you almost know what he's going to do. He'll probably do a little jab step then take a step back 3 or something like that. Yea, yea sometimes he will hit that little fade away mid range shot but that's really about it.  I also feel Rose drives better than Lebron,  and not b/c his layups are prettier either. Rose has more moves to get the hoop, while Lebron uses his god given build to almost plow his way to the hole. Rose can finish with EITHER hand equally while I'm not sure anyone in the league can do that up to par with him. Rose also has a bigger variety of shots he can make like Floaters, runners, and pull ups. When it comes down to it, I think Lebron's offensive game is good but there are other people in the league who have better ones than him, not just Rose. But luckily, Lebron is built so well for basketball that those flaws I just mentioned hardly surface. 

mike bibby is giving him the rondo treatment brother. and they only throw the kitchen sink at him when he uses the pick and roll. if he doesn't use that, the heat do NOT double him. what rose is facing isn't any different when you're the single star of a team like AI, tmac, kobe, lebron, wade faced. 
who cares if lebron has god-given ability or whatever you may think. jordan doesn't have god-given quickness and athleticism at 6-6? or his god-given big hands? you're going to use that against lebron? 

jordan was the best player in the L regardless of who you used to compare to him back then. kobe was the best player in the L for a 4-5 year stretch regardless of who you compared to him with. they were never one of the best 3pt shooters, but that shouldn't hurt their argument. they were not the best playmakers, but that shouldn't hurt their argument. and so on.

the best player is the player who literally dominates every matchups every game he goes out, whether that player is an average player or a superstar. that player outshines everybody on most nights. lebron is that player right now, as he can do that on BOTH ends. 

So your saying that at the time of Shaq's most dominant years (Late 90's to early 2000s) he was the best player in the world? Yes he won MVP, but could you actually say he was the best player in the world? Come on,...dominance is one thing but being just the overly better player is another. Going back to those Shaq years, I felt that AI was actually the best in the world (late 90s (after Jordan left) to early 2000s).Also, I'm not using Lebron's physique against him, I'm just pointing out the obvious. Jordan's all around game was amazing..His mid-range game can actually be considered the best of all time. You can actually see hints of that same game in Kobe. Now I'm not saying Kobe is on Jordan's level or anything like that, but you can see where Kobe took a lot of his game from. Jordan and Kobe are so crafty when it comes to playing. You will literally see Kobe start to back somebody down from the 3pt line and then work into the desired position he wants to get. He has developed this game that is almost offensively perfect. It's crazy how his game has turned from that of an electric shooting guard/ very good player into one who uses his wits and knowledge of the game to do whatever he wants on the floor. 
Now if you're looking at Rose's game and his shooting % people would compare that to one of the players you mentioned-A.I. However, Rose isn't in the same position as A.I. was back in '01 when he had a bunch of bums around him and still took them to the finals. No, the bulls have some good players-Deng, Noah, Boozer(on some nights), etc..but still, it's not like how Jordan had Pippen or Kukoc or Kerr (since Korver isn't showing up). Plus if you look at Kobe and his championship years, he had good or legendary players around him (Shaq, Pau, Big Shot Horry, defensive minded Artest, etc).my point is nobody can do it alone. So yes, Jordan was killing people and was the best every night but you have to include the other players on his team as well. Jordan had Pippen, Kukoc, Kerr, Armstrong, people who would hit their shots if left alone. Rose has good players around them, but they're either not hitting their shots(Korver) or just don't feel comfortable shooting at all. Also, you can't be serious about the D they are playing on Rose. Be honest, when was the last time you've seen somebody pressed so hard all the time he has the ball. You know this was sort of happening to Lebron when he was at Cleveland. People were saying that he choked or gave up or crap like that. Well if you look back at it, the teams playing Lebron  then were not going to let Lebron beat them, they wanted somebody else to step up, the thing is, nobody else did. But now in Miami Lebron is "the closer". You know why Lebron is closing out games like he is now? I already stated this but w/e...Wade and Bosh help to space the floor for him.

 

[chokeonsmoke]

Outlandish statement

 

[chokeonsmoke]

Outlandish statement

 

[sneakerfr]

Originally Posted by thesimplestlife

Originally Posted by Rolaholic

Originally Posted by thesimplestlife

some of you guys man...just because Lebron stopped Rose a couple of times doesn't mean he can really guard him. It's like when analysts were saying that Noah could guard Wade because he shut him down one time..SMH..



In all honesty I still believe Rose has a better offensive game the Lebron.If you have seen Lebron through his whole career then you can clearly see that he has some holes in his offense. He's actually a bit limited. He tends to drive a bit or shoot outside shots. Yes he makes mid range shots once in awhile, but he doesn't really have a mid range game nor a post one. Lebron is just blessed to be as big and as quick as he is, it really helps his game a lot.



Rose just tends to take way too many 3's. But in terms of a really solid offensive game, Rose has a bigger arsenal of moves and shots to get what he wants to get. Lebron is just really good at making the shots he's used to making.However, Rose can do more though.



Now defense is another thing..and I would definitely give that to Lebron. Rose tends to lag when it comes to screens and he seems to not care so much.

Rose himself said that "It's extremely hard where a 6-8 guy can easily defend you". How can people still say that he has no jumper when he shot 51% and shot 45% from mid-range,the best numbers of his career. All his shooting %'s were better than Rose this year and overall he had better offensive numbers than rose despite the fact that he's also playing with one of the best offensive players in the league.. How exactly would you say that he's limited when he can score from virtually anywhere. What can Rose do more? Prettier lay ups? Explain. Not salty,just curious.

Rose is a great player all around but to say that he has a better offensive game is questionable since he put up worse offensive numbers being the number 1 scoring option on his team than LeBron who's had to share the load with D-Wade. Even during the post-season,Rose hasn't played like the MVP he was during the season while LeBron has been the best player in these playoffs with Dirk.

you've been watching the playoffs right? Then haven't you noticed how every team has been playing defense on Rose? You act like Rose is playing worse than he usually does because he can't beat one man off the dribble. No, teams are throwing the kitchen sink at him to stop his dominance:  Trapping, Double teaming, and triple teaming him in some instances. Now you cant honestly say teams are playing that type of defense on Lebron, can you? You know why they aren't...Well because he has Wade and Bosh, who both can score too. So you can't say well his numbers suck and doesn't look like the MVP yada yada yada..teams are going crazy defending him. The other bulls will need to be a bit more effective. You can contribute those numbers you said to what I just said, he has Wade and Bosh to help space the floor for him.

Lebron got the kitchen sink thrown at him in his 2 mvp years & never averaged below 40% from the field in any of those 5 series. Rose has done it twice already (IND & MIA). Rose < Lebron. It aint got nothing to do with the guys around him. Lebron was putting up the same, or better (38 8 8 on 49% shooting against ORL the best defensive team in the league that year in the '09 ECFs) when he was flanked by mo williams varejao etc. And how effective do you want rose's guys to be? Booz & deng both had 20 on 50% shooting in the last game & rose shot 8-27 with 7 turnovers. That's on HIM.

 

[sneakerfr]

Originally Posted by thesimplestlife

Originally Posted by Rolaholic

Originally Posted by thesimplestlife

some of you guys man...just because Lebron stopped Rose a couple of times doesn't mean he can really guard him. It's like when analysts were saying that Noah could guard Wade because he shut him down one time..SMH..



In all honesty I still believe Rose has a better offensive game the Lebron.If you have seen Lebron through his whole career then you can clearly see that he has some holes in his offense. He's actually a bit limited. He tends to drive a bit or shoot outside shots. Yes he makes mid range shots once in awhile, but he doesn't really have a mid range game nor a post one. Lebron is just blessed to be as big and as quick as he is, it really helps his game a lot.



Rose just tends to take way too many 3's. But in terms of a really solid offensive game, Rose has a bigger arsenal of moves and shots to get what he wants to get. Lebron is just really good at making the shots he's used to making.However, Rose can do more though.



Now defense is another thing..and I would definitely give that to Lebron. Rose tends to lag when it comes to screens and he seems to not care so much.

Rose himself said that "It's extremely hard where a 6-8 guy can easily defend you". How can people still say that he has no jumper when he shot 51% and shot 45% from mid-range,the best numbers of his career. All his shooting %'s were better than Rose this year and overall he had better offensive numbers than rose despite the fact that he's also playing with one of the best offensive players in the league.. How exactly would you say that he's limited when he can score from virtually anywhere. What can Rose do more? Prettier lay ups? Explain. Not salty,just curious.

Rose is a great player all around but to say that he has a better offensive game is questionable since he put up worse offensive numbers being the number 1 scoring option on his team than LeBron who's had to share the load with D-Wade. Even during the post-season,Rose hasn't played like the MVP he was during the season while LeBron has been the best player in these playoffs with Dirk.

you've been watching the playoffs right? Then haven't you noticed how every team has been playing defense on Rose? You act like Rose is playing worse than he usually does because he can't beat one man off the dribble. No, teams are throwing the kitchen sink at him to stop his dominance:  Trapping, Double teaming, and triple teaming him in some instances. Now you cant honestly say teams are playing that type of defense on Lebron, can you? You know why they aren't...Well because he has Wade and Bosh, who both can score too. So you can't say well his numbers suck and doesn't look like the MVP yada yada yada..teams are going crazy defending him. The other bulls will need to be a bit more effective. You can contribute those numbers you said to what I just said, he has Wade and Bosh to help space the floor for him.

Lebron got the kitchen sink thrown at him in his 2 mvp years & never averaged below 40% from the field in any of those 5 series. Rose has done it twice already (IND & MIA). Rose < Lebron. It aint got nothing to do with the guys around him. Lebron was putting up the same, or better (38 8 8 on 49% shooting against ORL the best defensive team in the league that year in the '09 ECFs) when he was flanked by mo williams varejao etc. And how effective do you want rose's guys to be? Booz & deng both had 20 on 50% shooting in the last game & rose shot 8-27 with 7 turnovers. That's on HIM.

 

[nyk buc]

Originally Posted by thesimplestlife

Originally Posted by nyk buc

Originally Posted by thesimplestlife

you've been watching the playoffs right? Then haven't you noticed how every team has been playing defense on Rose? You act like Rose is playing worse than he usually does because he can't beat one man off the dribble. No, teams are throwing the kitchen sink at him to stop his dominance:  Trapping, Double teaming, and triple teaming him in some instances. Now you cant honestly say teams are playing that type of defense on Lebron, can you? You know why they aren't...Well because he has Wade and Bosh, who both can score too. So you can't say well his numbers suck and doesn't look like the MVP yada yada yada..teams are going crazy defending him. The other bulls will need to be a bit more effective. You can contribute those numbers you said to what I just said, he has Wade and Bosh to help space the floor for him.
Now to compare their offensive games I will say this..IMO Rose has a better mid-range game. His mid range game is right up there with the best in the league and his release is fast enough that he can get it off at anytime. Lebron is a bit different, if he's not driving it's like you almost know what he's going to do. He'll probably do a little jab step then take a step back 3 or something like that. Yea, yea sometimes he will hit that little fade away mid range shot but that's really about it.  I also feel Rose drives better than Lebron,  and not b/c his layups are prettier either. Rose has more moves to get the hoop, while Lebron uses his god given build to almost plow his way to the hole. Rose can finish with EITHER hand equally while I'm not sure anyone in the league can do that up to par with him. Rose also has a bigger variety of shots he can make like Floaters, runners, and pull ups. When it comes down to it, I think Lebron's offensive game is good but there are other people in the league who have better ones than him, not just Rose. But luckily, Lebron is built so well for basketball that those flaws I just mentioned hardly surface. 

mike bibby is giving him the rondo treatment brother. and they only throw the kitchen sink at him when he uses the pick and roll. if he doesn't use that, the heat do NOT double him. what rose is facing isn't any different when you're the single star of a team like AI, tmac, kobe, lebron, wade faced. 
who cares if lebron has god-given ability or whatever you may think. jordan doesn't have god-given quickness and athleticism at 6-6? or his god-given big hands? you're going to use that against lebron? 

jordan was the best player in the L regardless of who you used to compare to him back then. kobe was the best player in the L for a 4-5 year stretch regardless of who you compared to him with. they were never one of the best 3pt shooters, but that shouldn't hurt their argument. they were not the best playmakers, but that shouldn't hurt their argument. and so on.

the best player is the player who literally dominates every matchups every game he goes out, whether that player is an average player or a superstar. that player outshines everybody on most nights. lebron is that player right now, as he can do that on BOTH ends. 

So your saying that at the time of Shaq's most dominant years (Late 90's to early 2000s) he was the best player in the world? Yes he won MVP, but could you actually say he was the best player in the world? Come on,...dominance is one thing but being just the overly better player is another. Going back to those Shaq years, I felt that AI was actually the best in the world (late 90s (after Jordan left) to early 2000s).Also, I'm not using Lebron's physique against him, I'm just pointing out the obvious. Jordan's all around game was amazing..His mid-range game can actually be considered the best of all time. You can actually see hints of that same game in Kobe. Now I'm not saying Kobe is on Jordan's level or anything like that, but you can see where Kobe took a lot of his game from. Jordan and Kobe are so crafty when it comes to playing. You will literally see Kobe start to back somebody down from the 3pt line and then work into the desired position he wants to get. He has developed this game that is almost offensively perfect. It's crazy how his game has turned from that of an electric shooting guard/ very good player into one who uses his wits and knowledge of the game to do whatever he wants on the floor. 
Now if you're looking at Rose's game and his shooting % people would compare that to one of the players you mentioned-A.I. However, Rose isn't in the same position as A.I. was back in '01 when he had a bunch of bums around him and still took them to the finals. No, the bulls have some good players-Deng, Noah, Boozer(on some nights), etc..but still, it's not like how Jordan had Pippen or Kukoc or Kerr (since Korver isn't showing up). Plus if you look at Kobe and his championship years, he had good or legendary players around him (Shaq, Pau, Big Shot Horry, defensive minded Artest, etc).my point is nobody can do it alone. So yes, Jordan was killing people and was the best every night but you have to include the other players on his team as well. Jordan had Pippen, Kukoc, Kerr, Armstrong, people who would hit their shots if left alone. Rose has good players around them, but they're either not hitting their shots(Korver) or just don't feel comfortable shooting at all. Also, you can't be serious about the D they are playing on Rose. Be honest, when was the last time you've seen somebody pressed so hard all the time he has the ball. You know this was sort of happening to Lebron when he was at Cleveland. People were saying that he choked or gave up or crap like that. Well if you look back at it, the teams playing Lebron  then were not going to let Lebron beat them, they wanted somebody else to step up, the thing is, nobody else did. But now in Miami Lebron is "the closer". You know why Lebron is closing out games like he is now? I already stated this but w/e...Wade and Bosh help to space the floor for him.

the defense rose is facing is not any worse (if that bad) than what lebron/wade/or prime kobe/prime tmac used to face on a reg basis in the playoffs. i don't know why you are surprised. 
and when bibby is on him, bibby gives him the rondo treatment. if rose wants isolations, don't use the pick and rolll. the heat don't even come close to double him then and just leave whoever defender is guarding him on an island until he beats that guy.

deng/boozer/noah/bench ALL stepped up in game 4. and rose wilted. when have you seen that kind of reversal? usually the star shows up and the other guys don't. 

rose is a star player, but he's not that good. the guy has a poor jumper that people still give him the rondo treatment, and yet he still can't make his open jumpers consistently. the guy can't control a game with his playmaking when his offense stinks. and many more things.

he's NOWHERE near lebron's status now, or even when lebron was 21 or 22. 

but if you don't see that, oh well

 

[nyk buc]

Originally Posted by thesimplestlife

Originally Posted by nyk buc

Originally Posted by thesimplestlife

you've been watching the playoffs right? Then haven't you noticed how every team has been playing defense on Rose? You act like Rose is playing worse than he usually does because he can't beat one man off the dribble. No, teams are throwing the kitchen sink at him to stop his dominance:  Trapping, Double teaming, and triple teaming him in some instances. Now you cant honestly say teams are playing that type of defense on Lebron, can you? You know why they aren't...Well because he has Wade and Bosh, who both can score too. So you can't say well his numbers suck and doesn't look like the MVP yada yada yada..teams are going crazy defending him. The other bulls will need to be a bit more effective. You can contribute those numbers you said to what I just said, he has Wade and Bosh to help space the floor for him.
Now to compare their offensive games I will say this..IMO Rose has a better mid-range game. His mid range game is right up there with the best in the league and his release is fast enough that he can get it off at anytime. Lebron is a bit different, if he's not driving it's like you almost know what he's going to do. He'll probably do a little jab step then take a step back 3 or something like that. Yea, yea sometimes he will hit that little fade away mid range shot but that's really about it.  I also feel Rose drives better than Lebron,  and not b/c his layups are prettier either. Rose has more moves to get the hoop, while Lebron uses his god given build to almost plow his way to the hole. Rose can finish with EITHER hand equally while I'm not sure anyone in the league can do that up to par with him. Rose also has a bigger variety of shots he can make like Floaters, runners, and pull ups. When it comes down to it, I think Lebron's offensive game is good but there are other people in the league who have better ones than him, not just Rose. But luckily, Lebron is built so well for basketball that those flaws I just mentioned hardly surface. 

mike bibby is giving him the rondo treatment brother. and they only throw the kitchen sink at him when he uses the pick and roll. if he doesn't use that, the heat do NOT double him. what rose is facing isn't any different when you're the single star of a team like AI, tmac, kobe, lebron, wade faced. 
who cares if lebron has god-given ability or whatever you may think. jordan doesn't have god-given quickness and athleticism at 6-6? or his god-given big hands? you're going to use that against lebron? 

jordan was the best player in the L regardless of who you used to compare to him back then. kobe was the best player in the L for a 4-5 year stretch regardless of who you compared to him with. they were never one of the best 3pt shooters, but that shouldn't hurt their argument. they were not the best playmakers, but that shouldn't hurt their argument. and so on.

the best player is the player who literally dominates every matchups every game he goes out, whether that player is an average player or a superstar. that player outshines everybody on most nights. lebron is that player right now, as he can do that on BOTH ends. 

So your saying that at the time of Shaq's most dominant years (Late 90's to early 2000s) he was the best player in the world? Yes he won MVP, but could you actually say he was the best player in the world? Come on,...dominance is one thing but being just the overly better player is another. Going back to those Shaq years, I felt that AI was actually the best in the world (late 90s (after Jordan left) to early 2000s).Also, I'm not using Lebron's physique against him, I'm just pointing out the obvious. Jordan's all around game was amazing..His mid-range game can actually be considered the best of all time. You can actually see hints of that same game in Kobe. Now I'm not saying Kobe is on Jordan's level or anything like that, but you can see where Kobe took a lot of his game from. Jordan and Kobe are so crafty when it comes to playing. You will literally see Kobe start to back somebody down from the 3pt line and then work into the desired position he wants to get. He has developed this game that is almost offensively perfect. It's crazy how his game has turned from that of an electric shooting guard/ very good player into one who uses his wits and knowledge of the game to do whatever he wants on the floor. 
Now if you're looking at Rose's game and his shooting % people would compare that to one of the players you mentioned-A.I. However, Rose isn't in the same position as A.I. was back in '01 when he had a bunch of bums around him and still took them to the finals. No, the bulls have some good players-Deng, Noah, Boozer(on some nights), etc..but still, it's not like how Jordan had Pippen or Kukoc or Kerr (since Korver isn't showing up). Plus if you look at Kobe and his championship years, he had good or legendary players around him (Shaq, Pau, Big Shot Horry, defensive minded Artest, etc).my point is nobody can do it alone. So yes, Jordan was killing people and was the best every night but you have to include the other players on his team as well. Jordan had Pippen, Kukoc, Kerr, Armstrong, people who would hit their shots if left alone. Rose has good players around them, but they're either not hitting their shots(Korver) or just don't feel comfortable shooting at all. Also, you can't be serious about the D they are playing on Rose. Be honest, when was the last time you've seen somebody pressed so hard all the time he has the ball. You know this was sort of happening to Lebron when he was at Cleveland. People were saying that he choked or gave up or crap like that. Well if you look back at it, the teams playing Lebron  then were not going to let Lebron beat them, they wanted somebody else to step up, the thing is, nobody else did. But now in Miami Lebron is "the closer". You know why Lebron is closing out games like he is now? I already stated this but w/e...Wade and Bosh help to space the floor for him.

the defense rose is facing is not any worse (if that bad) than what lebron/wade/or prime kobe/prime tmac used to face on a reg basis in the playoffs. i don't know why you are surprised. 
and when bibby is on him, bibby gives him the rondo treatment. if rose wants isolations, don't use the pick and rolll. the heat don't even come close to double him then and just leave whoever defender is guarding him on an island until he beats that guy.

deng/boozer/noah/bench ALL stepped up in game 4. and rose wilted. when have you seen that kind of reversal? usually the star shows up and the other guys don't. 

rose is a star player, but he's not that good. the guy has a poor jumper that people still give him the rondo treatment, and yet he still can't make his open jumpers consistently. the guy can't control a game with his playmaking when his offense stinks. and many more things.

he's NOWHERE near lebron's status now, or even when lebron was 21 or 22. 

but if you don't see that, oh well

 

[rebourne]

If I had the choice to pick as a franchise player for my team, I'd pick D-Rose, hands down!!!

 

[rebourne]

If I had the choice to pick as a franchise player for my team, I'd pick D-Rose, hands down!!!

 

[kix4kix]

The numbers guys ruined this thread. Again.

 

[kix4kix]

The numbers guys ruined this thread. Again.

 

[mzd650]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

The numbers guys ruined this thread. Again.

Dont want to look at numbers?  Fine. 

You play the eye test game and tell me how you can possibly arrive at the conclusion Rose > Bron.  I'll wait.

 

[mzd650]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

The numbers guys ruined this thread. Again.

Dont want to look at numbers?  Fine. 

You play the eye test game and tell me how you can possibly arrive at the conclusion Rose > Bron.  I'll wait.

 

[hood17]

Yeah I heard this on Lebatard yester day and just stared at my speakers like 

Rose is good, somewhere in top 10 right now but c'mon. I'm not even a huge Lebron fan but he his the best player in the league right now.

 

[hood17]

Yeah I heard this on Lebatard yester day and just stared at my speakers like 

Rose is good, somewhere in top 10 right now but c'mon. I'm not even a huge Lebron fan but he his the best player in the league right now.

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by nyk buc

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by nyk buc

lebron's midrange jumpshot is at 45% in te reg season, that's better than KD and kobe bryant. what more do you want? 
bucher did make this statement before the playoffs, and he was still ignorant then. he's just more ignorant now b/c these guys are going against each other 1-on-1 and bron is shutting him down. facts are in front of him and he's still living in his dream world. 

OK and Lebron shoots the midrange less than both players, he should shoot a higher % as the "best player in the world."  How does he shoot the wide open three compared to other players?  The pull up off the dribble?

This debate is stupid.  In the end they're totally different players.  They work on and master different aspects of the game to suit their physical attributes and given gifts.  This is almost as bad as the "Who's better -- Tim Duncan or Allen Iverson?!" debates.

It's why Player A vs. Player B debates never go anywhere.  This isn't the first time Lebron has had to guard D. Rose.  He doesn't always lock him down, but last night he did.  If they iso'd Rose against Bron 100 times how many times do you think D Rose would score?

I don't think Rose is better than LBJ, but I don't necessarily think Lebron is the best player in the league.  My point is however, that people need to just get over what journalists say. 

are you serious? was MJ the best 3pt shooter in the L? what kind of argument are you freakin' making?
the best player in the L is that: the best player in the L. they dominate the game in more ways than any other player, and that's lebron james. he scores efficiently, rebound, make plays, and defend anybody. who else can make that claim? nobody.

are you saying we can't say michael jordan is better than allen iverson b/c of their different styles? 

you watch the game of basketball. it should be evident.  

No, MJ wasn't the best three point shooter in the league, and for a lot of his career it was debatable whether he WAS the best player.  You're making my point: Player A v.s Player B debates are stupid because most of the time there's no empirical way to compare them.  The two play different positions.

Saying something like "you watch the game of basketball. it should be evident" highlights the chief flaw in these arguments:  They're subjective.  It's opinion.

Look in my OPINION Lebron is the best player in the league.  But people acting like "the best player" denotation is an objective fact and something obvious are kidding themselves.  A year ago, we were having these same debates about Lebron vs. Player ____ because Lebron couldn't win, couldn't close, or didn't have heart, whatever someone chose to criticize his game with.  The criteria people choose to argue these things are so arbitrary that it makes the debate inherently foolish.  Players thrive in certain situations.

Lebron successfully guarding Derrick Rose for 15-17 minutes doesn't automatically = "He is clearly the superior player"

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by nyk buc

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by nyk buc

lebron's midrange jumpshot is at 45% in te reg season, that's better than KD and kobe bryant. what more do you want? 
bucher did make this statement before the playoffs, and he was still ignorant then. he's just more ignorant now b/c these guys are going against each other 1-on-1 and bron is shutting him down. facts are in front of him and he's still living in his dream world. 

OK and Lebron shoots the midrange less than both players, he should shoot a higher % as the "best player in the world."  How does he shoot the wide open three compared to other players?  The pull up off the dribble?

This debate is stupid.  In the end they're totally different players.  They work on and master different aspects of the game to suit their physical attributes and given gifts.  This is almost as bad as the "Who's better -- Tim Duncan or Allen Iverson?!" debates.

It's why Player A vs. Player B debates never go anywhere.  This isn't the first time Lebron has had to guard D. Rose.  He doesn't always lock him down, but last night he did.  If they iso'd Rose against Bron 100 times how many times do you think D Rose would score?

I don't think Rose is better than LBJ, but I don't necessarily think Lebron is the best player in the league.  My point is however, that people need to just get over what journalists say. 

are you serious? was MJ the best 3pt shooter in the L? what kind of argument are you freakin' making?
the best player in the L is that: the best player in the L. they dominate the game in more ways than any other player, and that's lebron james. he scores efficiently, rebound, make plays, and defend anybody. who else can make that claim? nobody.

are you saying we can't say michael jordan is better than allen iverson b/c of their different styles? 

you watch the game of basketball. it should be evident.  

No, MJ wasn't the best three point shooter in the league, and for a lot of his career it was debatable whether he WAS the best player.  You're making my point: Player A v.s Player B debates are stupid because most of the time there's no empirical way to compare them.  The two play different positions.

Saying something like "you watch the game of basketball. it should be evident" highlights the chief flaw in these arguments:  They're subjective.  It's opinion.

Look in my OPINION Lebron is the best player in the league.  But people acting like "the best player" denotation is an objective fact and something obvious are kidding themselves.  A year ago, we were having these same debates about Lebron vs. Player ____ because Lebron couldn't win, couldn't close, or didn't have heart, whatever someone chose to criticize his game with.  The criteria people choose to argue these things are so arbitrary that it makes the debate inherently foolish.  Players thrive in certain situations.

Lebron successfully guarding Derrick Rose for 15-17 minutes doesn't automatically = "He is clearly the superior player"