ETHER December 4, 2001

[seymore cake]

Y'all can front like Jay didn't lose a step if you want to but everyone in his camp says that record was a missle. Bleek said it was a horrible day at Rocafella Records when Ether dropped...Said boys were ready to take it to the streets for real after that, it was that bad.

Memphis Bleek: [Laughs] It was a gloomy day, for real. When [Funkmaster] Flex played it, I ain’t going to lie, I admitted to myself and had to tell the big homey he got us, he got one up on us. That s**t was cooked crack cocaine right there. Like it was no denying that record was hot as s**t, it was a bunch of lies on that record, but it was still a hot record. One that is going down in history, you know what I mean. We were at Baseline Studios listening to the radio when we first heard it. Jay and everybody was saying this s**t’s hot.

AllHipHop.com: Were you ready to ride out after you heard it?

Memphis Bleek: I wanted to fight; it was getting ugly, my dude. When someone do it to you like that, I thought we were going to fight.

http://www.allhiphop.com/features/?ID=1725



I still can't get over how flabbergasted Shawn was, like I dude has always been extremely well spoken and he sounded like he had a 3rd grade education. Even Angie was like "What The !%%! Was That?!?!

" afterwards

 

[heelish]

Originally Posted by boricuachulo321

Originally Posted by heelish

The fact that EVERY SONG on Blueprint 2 was a response to any diss/point made in Ether is just 

Not...sure...if...serious....

I am. Maybe exaggerated by saying EVERY song, but think about this. For years he was calling EVERY woman a b*tch, then comes with "B*tches & Sisters".
Even with the intro track he rhymes as Biggie JUST to give himself props. It's disgusting...

Then he tries to come through with "deep" tracks like Some How Some Way & Ballad of a Fallen Soldier which were both utter trash.

The whole album is FILLED with subliminals, BP2 signified the end of the Roc & the end of the Jay-Z most grew up with and loved. This was the start of his run as Euro Jay.

Here are quotes from others, just to show that I'm not just making sh*t up. It's well known if you actually followed Shawn Carter's career.

[table][tr][td]
ballad of a dead soldier or whatever is da most forced song ive ever heard in my life. i cant even get past da first verse anymore lol. da guy is like forcing sadness. its crazy

da whole album was in response to ether man
if u listen to blueprint 1 jay was confident and sure of himself. flowing almost flawlessly
and den a album later, hes a completely different rapper.i think nas killed "jigga" cause the rapper we heard on vol 1,2,3, dynasty, and blueprint was now dead. blueprint 2 was da birth of his different weird *@! flow, there was a whole lot of complaining and justifying, weirdo *@! lyrics, and a lot of porno star type beats 

its shocking how **** changed from blueprint 1 to blueprint 2
it kinda symbolizes da roc break up too.
dat album was all ova da place and disorganized
very funny tho

"Dis ***** un yo i stabbed him" 

 

 who the hell says *+%% like dat
ether really fyucked him up for a bit
[/td][/tr][/table]

[table][tr][td]
I always found Ballad for a Fallen Soldier quite funny. It's just so contrived and forced. You can almost hear Jay telling you "Look at me, i'm just so deep, i don't ALWAYS rap just about myself". and then on top of that you've got The Neptunes' hollow, faux-melancholy beat.

Plus the jazz/funk breakdown on Fukk All Nite. Shiit sounded like something from an 1980s softporn movie.
[/td][/tr][/table]

Original thread, also full of truth/hilarious gems:

http://forums.projectcovo.com/showthread.php?t=2288961

 

[deuce king]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Y'all can front like Jay didn't lose a step if you want to 
  

The thing that I'm having a hard time understanding for dude that supposedly lost a step or got hit with the "so called" greatest diss record ever as it appears Jay got even bigger and better from the time Ether dropped until this very moment while Nas on the other hand, well let's just say it's been a continuous downward spiral for Nas every since, and there's a reason for that continuous downward spiral by the way.  That's just my take on things.  

Original thread, also full of truth/hilarious gems:

 Man, alot of you dudes are reaching for the stars here, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. 

 

[the natural mystic]

Deuce get your tongue off Jay's balls. That %%%$ is disgusting b.

Jay sent out shots to Nas and Nas dropped a Nuke on homie and then felt sorry for him. Nas said he prayed for homie after he dropped ether on him.

Jay was shook. The proof is in the interview.

Beanie siegel admitted that Dec. 4th 2001 was a "Very Dark Day for the ROC" Why do you think that it is?

Every butt hurt Jay fan always brings up how their careers have evolved after the battle. Like why? That's like losing a fight in high school and comparing your life to the guy you lost to 10 years after the battle. That %%%$ doesn't matter. You still lost the fight homie.

And then people bring up all the gay, big lips stuff and say ether was immature. The %%!+ do you mean? Jay called Nas gay too on takeover but not one person says anything about that. The karl kani line.

Just answer this one question Deuce. Why was Jay so shook in that interview? Just answer that please.

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by LBJ23navo

Is there a full interview of Hov & Angie somewhere? 

Shh got deleted off the net with the quickness. Still wish I recorded it but Jay literally showed up unannounced.

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

What L though? The only L anyone is taking here is by the same dudes who can't put a former beef between two still relevant artists behind them. Okay, Jay takes the L...he still making hi music. Alright, Nas is the "little brother"...still doing his thing with a new album coming out. Last time I checked there was examples of beef that actually messed up rapper's careers. That isn't the case here with either MC.

Thankfully.

%*@%@$ stay playing coy

We all know we talking about a battle now dudes is confused to what L I'm referring to. Even Jay admits he took the L in this alleged great diss song in BP2

Glad you feel that way. I'll continue to enjoy their music while you stay debating with Deuce King over who "won" what. Maybe it will get you somewhere important one day

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Dudes is sayin some wild sh!# now. BP2 was the start of the end for Jay???

. The hate gettin in the way or somethin. I'm done both of these _'s are legends anyway.

 

[seymore cake]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Seymore CAKE wrote:

---

Y'all can front like Jay didn't lose a step if you want to 
  

The thing that I'm having a hard time understanding for dude that supposedly lost a step or got hit with the "so called" greatest diss record ever as it appears Jay got even bigger and better from the time Ether dropped until this very moment while Nas on the other hand, well let's just say it's been a continuous downward spiral for Nas every since, and there's a reason for that continuous downward spiral by the way.  That's just my take on things.  

Original thread, also full of truth/hilarious gems:

 Man, alot of you dudes are reaching for the stars here, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. 

Continuous downward spiral in terms of what exactly? Commercial Success?

One's an extrovert and the others an introvert.  One wants the public acclaim the other shuns away from it. It has little to do with who's better and more to do with personalities and what they strive for.  What one person deems as success isn't necessarily equivilant to what another person deems as success.  I'm sure I don't have to remid you of that my good brother.

Are you talking about in terms of records sold?

If that's the case then that all goes back to what I stated above, it has to do with the type of personality you align yourself with/popularity which goes back to the extrovert/introvert. Because damn near all of his albums have went platinum, more than half of them half debuted at #1, and his last 3 projects have all been nominated for Grammys.

Are you talking about in terms of quality product?

You can't be because since then Nas has put out arguable some of the best music hiphop has heard. Stillmatic, GodSon, Streets Disciple, Untitled, Distant Relatives.  All of which were criticially acclaimed the amount of quality music is OFF the charts.

So by what standards are you basing this stance that one has been on a continued downward spiral?

 

[deuce king]

 Deuce get your tongue off Jay's balls. That %%%$ is disgusting b.

Please watch your language with me champ.  No need for me, you or anyone else in here for that matter to start disrespecting folks, lets be civilzed here and have a mature conversation/debate.......if possible.

That's like losing a fight in high school and comparing your life to the guy you lost to 10 years after the battle. That %%%$ doesn't matter. You still lost the fight homie.



Okay, just sticking with the battle itself or just the timeframe of 2001 alone, I feel Jay won, others feel Nas won.  I got my reasons for why I feel Jay won and others have there reason as to why Nas won, I got NO problem with that. 

 Just answer this one question Deuce. Why was Jay so shook in that interview? Just answer that please. 

Well seeing as how I'm not Jay I can't fully answer that question, but from my point of view Jay was "shook" or not his nomral self during that interview because he probably felt as though the people, or some people should I say turned on him or were just rooting for him to fail.  As the saying goes, "the more you do for a %*+*% the less they appreciate you".  That was a lesson that Jay if he didn't know before learned that day and would later on be reminded of that very same lessson after the finals days of the Rocafella label.  That's my take on the matter. 

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by LBJ23navo

Is there a full interview of Hov & Angie somewhere? 

Shh got deleted off the net with the quickness. Still wish I recorded it but Jay literally showed up unannounced.

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

What L though? The only L anyone is taking here is by the same dudes who can't put a former beef between two still relevant artists behind them. Okay, Jay takes the L...he still making hi music. Alright, Nas is the "little brother"...still doing his thing with a new album coming out. Last time I checked there was examples of beef that actually messed up rapper's careers. That isn't the case here with either MC.

Thankfully.

%*@%@$ stay playing coy

We all know we talking about a battle now dudes is confused to what L I'm referring to. Even Jay admits he took the L in this alleged great diss song in BP2

Glad you feel that way. I'll continue to enjoy their music while you stay debating with Deuce King over who "won" what. Maybe it will get you somewhere important one day

This is not working dog. This whole I'm bigger than this argument bull you can save it. You don't want to discuss the topic, don't post in the thread

Discussing this topic does not mean ppl are not enjoying Nas or Jay's music. That's irrelevant. Stop trying to connect this with ppl enjoying music. You acting like this thread is derailing ppl from discussing the two artist's music when it IS OBVIOUSLY NOT.

Just get out the thread son.

 

[heelish]

Ether obviously had Jay-Z tore up. It makes sense though. Nas is someone who Jay idolized as a rapper, even though Jay's younger. How would you feel if your hero dissed you with facts that nobody was supposed to know? (talking about the parts of Ether where Jaz-O helped Nas out with stories of Jay's past). He was still hurt that Nas didn't want to be featured on Reasonable Doubt on what was originally "New York's Finest" (that eventually became "Brooklyn's Finest", can you imagine all 3 rappers in their prime on one track 

)
Anyway, Jay was targeting those he felt wouldn't bust back, such as Prodigy & Nas, both whose careers were on a downfall. I will credit Jay with "waking up the beast", per say. Nas' run from 2001-2006 was just amazing, I'll take SD & HHID over Stillmatic any day. All in all, Ether to me is pretty overrated but the song itself must harbor some truth to have the whole Roc-A-Fella camp admit that it affected Jay in a negative way. Even Irv Gotti recently mentioned how down Jay was and how he'd come through the Murder Inc building for 2 weeks straight. Shawn Carter is a sensitive dude that f*cked with the wrong guy. These two will always be compared to each other but at the end of the day they are legends.

 

[dior paint]

%+#@%+ can't ever come to a middle point. We got dudes EXTREMELY exaggerating on both sides now.

 

[ravagebx]

Originally Posted by DIOR PAINT

%+#@%+ can't ever come to a middle point. We got dudes EXTREMELY exaggerating on both sides now.

ALWAYS

 

[the natural mystic]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

 Deuce get your tongue off Jay's balls. That %%%$ is disgusting b.

Please watch your language with me champ.  No need for me, you or anyone else in here for that matter to start disrespecting folks, lets be civilzed here and have a mature conversation/debate.......if possible.

That's like losing a fight in high school and comparing your life to the guy you lost to 10 years after the battle. That %%%$ doesn't matter. You still lost the fight homie.



Okay, just sticking with the battle itself or just the timeframe of 2001 alone, I feel Jay won, others feel Nas won.  I got my reasons for why I feel Jay won and others have there reason as to why Nas won, I got NO problem with that. 

 Just answer this one question Deuce. Why was Jay so shook in that interview? Just answer that please. 

Well seeing as how I'm not Jay I can't fully answer that question, but from my point of view Jay was "shook" or not his nomral self during that interview because he probably felt as though the people, or some people should I say turned on him or were just rooting for him to fail.  As the saying goes, "the more you do for a #%%!* the less they appreciate you".  That was a lesson that Jay if he didn't know before learned that day and would later on be reminded of that very same lessson after the finals days of the Rocafella label.  That's my take on the matter. 




You right, I did come off with disrespect and that's my bad but it's like you don't think Jay can ever lose in which he did. Jay's swag, confidence which he known for was destroyed by this track. DESTROYED!! and you can tell he was demoralized by the track. Whether you acknowledge that or not is up to you. Dame and Bienie went on record to say Ether hurt Jay.

People just don't turn on you like that son. They turned on him because of Ether. Jay acknowledges how hurt he was by Ether, especially by the third verse. This is by his OWN words son. That third verse hurt Jay, my dude was stuttering like he got caught cheating by his wife b.

and I'm not biased by any means, this pure fact my dude. Jay and Nas are my favorite rappers and they interchange between 1 & 2 depending on the day.

 

[deuce king]

You right, I did come off with disrespect and that's my bad

My man.

Jay's swag, confidence which he known for was destroyed by this track. DESTROYED!! and you can tell he was demoralized by the track. Whether you acknowledge that or not is up to you. Dame and Bienie went on record to say Ether hurt Jay.

All these are valid points by you and a few others in here as well.  Just to clear the record from my point of view here is what I believe or DON'T believe in regards to Ether.  I don't believe Ether KILLED Jay, I don't.  Just by definition alone Jay wouldn't currently have a career now if Ether or Nas truly KILLED Jay which some in here have alluded to.  I believe Ether did damage to Jay for various reasons, but I simply don't see how anyone can say Ether killed Jay.  I also DON'T believe that Nas could have Ja'Ruled Jay's career as our good friend ninjahood suggested had Nas kept his foot on the gas or on Jay's neck, I don't believe that either, which was my orginal point when I entered this thread as well.  Either way you slice it in regards to both Jay Z and Nas we're talking about two hip hop legends, two great emcees and two rappers that most consider to be Top 5 or even Top 3 ever to pick up a mic.  Neither of them could erase the other person from the hip hop books because both of them contributed so much to hip hop throughout the years and help carry the torch.

Edit--

Continuous downward spiral in terms of what exactly? Commercial Success?

  
Nah, not as a rapper but I was refering to Nas as a person or just his life in general, but with the direction this thread is taking and just keeping things focused on the music aspect, I won't talk about that for now.

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Shh got deleted off the net with the quickness. Still wish I recorded it but Jay literally showed up unannounced.
%*@%@$ stay playing coy

We all know we talking about a battle now dudes is confused to what L I'm referring to. Even Jay admits he took the L in this alleged great diss song in BP2

Glad you feel that way. I'll continue to enjoy their music while you stay debating with Deuce King over who "won" what. Maybe it will get you somewhere important one day

This is not working dog. This whole I'm bigger than this argument bull you can save it. You don't want to discuss the topic, don't post in the thread

Discussing this topic does not mean ppl are not enjoying Nas or Jay's music. That's irrelevant. Stop trying to connect this with ppl enjoying music. You acting like this thread is derailing ppl from discussing the two artist's music when it IS OBVIOUSLY NOT.

Just get out the thread son.

I'll post where I want and leave when I feel like it, thanks. And no, some people here DO let this tired beef get in the way of enjoying the music. Let's not pretend that doesn't happen on this board.

But since this is yet another Nas vs. Jay stanning thread I'll let you take it from here. Enjoy. Maybe Jay and Nas will come by later and give out medals to dudes who waste the most time here arguing who "won" a beef that's more important for fan ego than anything else.

 

[renzo289]

NAS IS THE REASON JAY EVEN BAGGED BEYONCE IN THE FIRST PLACE! HE HAD TO PROVE THAT HE WASN'T AS UGLY AS NAS CLAIMED HE WAS BY BOOKING THE BADDEST CHICK IN THE GAME! NAS HAS MIND CONTROL OVER JAY!

Lol but nah, everything comes down to a matter of opinion...

I personally feel nas won off the fact jay had to resort to bringing esco's family in supa ugly...

And a

to heelish for saying HHID & SD > Stillmatic...you need to go back and spin that again...

 

[Peep Game]

Man, I didn't realize the effects that beef had on everybody else around them. I remember fully just paying attention to Nas and Jay,
not even concerned w/ the rest of the Roc roster. "I don't get dropped, I drop the label" speaks volumes.

And after listening to how flustered just was on that interview, ppl would be stupid not to think "Ether" didn't have an affect on him.
Sure, "Ether" wasn't exactly a great diss, but it obviously hit home with Jay, but changed both of them. It resurrected Nas' career at
the time and made people check for him again. I know I did. Nas was pretty much dead to me until I heard "Ether". And at the same
time, it made Jay re-evaluate a lot of stuff and go back to the drawing board, and take off and be in the position he is in today. I forgot
who mentioned it earlier, but Blueprint 2 didn't sound like that just cause he wanted it to, Ether was the catalyst to that. Had that not
happened, I'm not sure if Jay would've dropped a garbage 1st disc with a really good 2nd disc to that album.

Oh well, I listen to both, and even though I think Nas has progressively gotten better lyrically, since Jay said "N__ want my old %@^#,
buy my old album", I just throw on his old &^#* and don't even get irritated anymore when he drops those mediocre songs he's been
doing for awhile now.

 

[abutta13]

imo bp2 was the best diss song in this beef. it just came a little too late.

 

[thunderchunk69]

takeover won, forgot bp2

Jay was in shambles because NY (aka hot97, aka KAY SLAY WHO WAS RIDING WITH NAS) decided he lost.

Jay didn't question it, he took it as gospel and tasted defeat.
then weeks later Kay and Nas had beef and all of the sudden he wasnt riding with him anymore.

I'm not an "NY RAP elitist" but if you guys weren't in NY for this time period you have no idea how much Hot97 and Kay Slay played in all of this.

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Edit-

Continuous downward spiral in terms of what exactly? Commercial Success?

Nah, not as a rapper but I was refering to Nas as a person or just his life in general, but with the direction this thread is taking and just keeping things focused on the music aspect, I won't talk about that for now.
That's cuz it's irrelevant

and you know it. Nobody wanna discuss music when it comes to rap battle on wax nowadays. Anything you would claim is part of Nas' alleged "downward spiral" would be something about him paying child support and his baby moms especially compared to w/e you'd assume about Jay's life. Cuz honestly there's no way you gonna sit up here and type up something about the next man's life. There's a point shh stop being for jokes and just lame. Seems Nas had ppl like you in mind naming his next album Life's Good.

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

Glad you feel that way. I'll continue to enjoy their music while you stay debating with Deuce King over who "won" what. Maybe it will get you somewhere important one day

This is not working dog. This whole I'm bigger than this argument bull you can save it. You don't want to discuss the topic, don't post in the thread

Discussing this topic does not mean ppl are not enjoying Nas or Jay's music. That's irrelevant. Stop trying to connect this with ppl enjoying music. You acting like this thread is derailing ppl from discussing the two artist's music when it IS OBVIOUSLY NOT.

Just get out the thread son.

I'll post where I want and leave when I feel like it, thanks. And no, some people here DO let this tired beef get in the way of enjoying the music. Let's not pretend that doesn't happen on this board.

I'm not one of those ppl and I'm definitely not concerned with them. Shh is mad irrelevant to the thread. Seem like you just posting to say something. It's that nobody wanna address the topic at hand and stick to it trend.

But since this is yet another Nas vs. Jay stanning thread I'll let you take it from here. Enjoy. Maybe Jay and Nas will come by later and give out medals to dudes who waste the most time here arguing who "won" a beef that's more important for fan ego than anything else.
See? I'm not buying this son. These attempts to condescend with sarcasm are lame. If you don't want to engage don't, how you look pointing out one thing about a group and then turn around and all you're being is petty about it. If you was really above any of this you wouldn't waste your time posting at all but you want to be involved without being involved. Shh is sad b.

 

[chiptoothsmile]

Nas won the battle, Jay won the war. The last line on Last Real N Alive was uncalled for tho Lolol!

 

[voidemperor]

Originally Posted by ThunderChunk69


I'm not an "NY RAP elitist" but if you guys weren't in NY for this time period you have no idea how much Hot97 and Kay Slay played in all of this.

*scratches ching* good point, good point...

 

[mackmittenzz]

on of my favorite songs of all time, by my favorite rapper of all time

 

[the natural mystic]

Originally Posted by ChipToothSmile

Nas won the battle, Jay won the war. The last line on Last Real N Alive was uncalled for tho Lolol!

What war did Jay win?

 

[deuce king]

That's cuz it's irrelevant

and you know it. Nobody wanna discuss music when it comes to rap battle on wax nowadays. Anything you would claim is part of Nas' alleged "downward spiral" would be something about him paying child support and his baby moms especially compared to w/e you'd assume about Jay's life

Irrelevant huh??  I don't even think you believe that yourself. There's rap life, there's real life then there are points in time when the two intersect.  I'll just say this much as a point to what your trying to disregard, ever since the battle at least, in my eyes Jay has been winning while Nas has been losing.  Be it getting a chick's name tatted on his arm, then that same chick divorcing him and getting hit with a massive child support payment suit, and other things as well.  As always though, this seems like a never ending debate so if nothing else it's good to feel like the music forum with this thread has the feeling of the days of old in it.  Good times.