GOD DID NOT CREATE THE UNIVERSE (says my man Steve)

[late registrant]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by jeenewed

Originally Posted by rck2sactown

He's just mad...

Basically.


How can there be gravity if there is nothing, Mr Hawkings? Answer THAT.

ROFL

you actually think you know more about physics than STEPHEN MFING HAWKING????

go watch the video I posted. Start at 20 minutes. It answers your question.

everyone one should watch the whole video.

what was more funny was how sure of himself he thought he was.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

It's kind of hard to discredit a higher power if you take into account how great this ever expanding universe is. Science alone can probably prove the physics within our own realm and dimension but what about further out?

http://nerdnirvana.org/wp...ed-by-a-single-pixel.jpg

If you take into account this picture which im just posting the link to (too big of a jpg to post), It is just mind boggling how the "we" as humans can claim science is correct and quickly discredit a higher being.

Not saying that science is wrong, but theories applied here on earth can falter down the line in this universe. There is still so much to learn.

The universe is not "ever expanding." One day, the universe will stop expanding, and it will then collapse on itself due to gravity's negative energy.

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes.


Watch the video I posted if you really want to know more.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

It's kind of hard to discredit a higher power if you take into account how great this ever expanding universe is. Science alone can probably prove the physics within our own realm and dimension but what about further out?

http://nerdnirvana.org/wp...ed-by-a-single-pixel.jpg

If you take into account this picture which im just posting the link to (too big of a jpg to post), It is just mind boggling how the "we" as humans can claim science is correct and quickly discredit a higher being.

Not saying that science is wrong, but theories applied here on earth can falter down the line in this universe. There is still so much to learn.

The universe is not "ever expanding." One day, the universe will stop expanding, and it will then collapse on itself due to gravity's negative energy.

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes.


Watch the video I posted if you really want to know more.

 

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

It's kind of hard to discredit a higher power if you take into account how great this ever expanding universe is. Science alone can probably prove the physics within our own realm and dimension but what about further out?

http://nerdnirvana.org/wp...ed-by-a-single-pixel.jpg

If you take into account this picture which im just posting the link to (too big of a jpg to post), It is just mind boggling how the "we" as humans can claim science is correct and quickly discredit a higher being.

Not saying that science is wrong, but theories applied here on earth can falter down the line in this universe. There is still so much to learn.

But why is the said higher being exempt from the laws of science and creation? You are amazed at the grandeur of the universe and this leads you to conclude that a higher being beyond the scope of the universe had something to do with it. I am looking beyong this said higher being. How did it come into existence? Why stop at the questioning the universe's mysteries?

i think the same question can be applied to the universe as well though. how did the higher being come into place... well how did the universe come into place? if these theories are correct then the energy of the universe is 0 and something came from nothing... but the nothing really is something so where did that something come from. i really used to be an atheist but after thinking about the universe i kind of had a change of heart. is it an ever-expansive entity? how can you imagine the limits on the universe? it is expanding in every direction but what is it expanding INTO? what is beyond its limits. that is what blew my mind.

i make no sense but this is crazy. i really dont think we can ever have the answers in this absurd life but ... i like to dream of all of the possibilities.

 

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

It's kind of hard to discredit a higher power if you take into account how great this ever expanding universe is. Science alone can probably prove the physics within our own realm and dimension but what about further out?

http://nerdnirvana.org/wp...ed-by-a-single-pixel.jpg

If you take into account this picture which im just posting the link to (too big of a jpg to post), It is just mind boggling how the "we" as humans can claim science is correct and quickly discredit a higher being.

Not saying that science is wrong, but theories applied here on earth can falter down the line in this universe. There is still so much to learn.

But why is the said higher being exempt from the laws of science and creation? You are amazed at the grandeur of the universe and this leads you to conclude that a higher being beyond the scope of the universe had something to do with it. I am looking beyong this said higher being. How did it come into existence? Why stop at the questioning the universe's mysteries?

i think the same question can be applied to the universe as well though. how did the higher being come into place... well how did the universe come into place? if these theories are correct then the energy of the universe is 0 and something came from nothing... but the nothing really is something so where did that something come from. i really used to be an atheist but after thinking about the universe i kind of had a change of heart. is it an ever-expansive entity? how can you imagine the limits on the universe? it is expanding in every direction but what is it expanding INTO? what is beyond its limits. that is what blew my mind.

i make no sense but this is crazy. i really dont think we can ever have the answers in this absurd life but ... i like to dream of all of the possibilities.

 

[philosoraptor]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

It's kind of hard to discredit a higher power if you take into account how great this ever expanding universe is. Science alone can probably prove the physics within our own realm and dimension but what about further out?

http://nerdnirvana.org/wp...ed-by-a-single-pixel.jpg

If you take into account this picture which im just posting the link to (too big of a jpg to post), It is just mind boggling how the "we" as humans can claim science is correct and quickly discredit a higher being.

Not saying that science is wrong, but theories applied here on earth can falter down the line in this universe. There is still so much to learn.

But why is the said higher being exempt from the laws of science and creation? You are amazed at the grandeur of the universe and this leads you to conclude that a higher being beyond the scope of the universe had something to do with it. I am looking beyong this said higher being. How did it come into existence? Why stop at the questioning the universe's mysteries?


Religious folks and scientists are essentially saying the same thing.....that IT has always existed (the universe or God). If you think about it, both theories are not so different. The difference is science does a much better job or atleast makes an attempt to back up their claims with experiments and logic. 

I kind of actually agreed with you up to some extent. The second paragraph was on point until the last sentence. Which is where your belief comes into play. But I dare not cross the line any further since religion is only bent to continue based on faith, where as science with "experiments and logic". It's a side everyone has to chose. Different approaches do not always merit the same conclusions and this is a great example when it comes to religion and science.

 

[philosoraptor]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

It's kind of hard to discredit a higher power if you take into account how great this ever expanding universe is. Science alone can probably prove the physics within our own realm and dimension but what about further out?

http://nerdnirvana.org/wp...ed-by-a-single-pixel.jpg

If you take into account this picture which im just posting the link to (too big of a jpg to post), It is just mind boggling how the "we" as humans can claim science is correct and quickly discredit a higher being.

Not saying that science is wrong, but theories applied here on earth can falter down the line in this universe. There is still so much to learn.

But why is the said higher being exempt from the laws of science and creation? You are amazed at the grandeur of the universe and this leads you to conclude that a higher being beyond the scope of the universe had something to do with it. I am looking beyong this said higher being. How did it come into existence? Why stop at the questioning the universe's mysteries?


Religious folks and scientists are essentially saying the same thing.....that IT has always existed (the universe or God). If you think about it, both theories are not so different. The difference is science does a much better job or atleast makes an attempt to back up their claims with experiments and logic. 

I kind of actually agreed with you up to some extent. The second paragraph was on point until the last sentence. Which is where your belief comes into play. But I dare not cross the line any further since religion is only bent to continue based on faith, where as science with "experiments and logic". It's a side everyone has to chose. Different approaches do not always merit the same conclusions and this is a great example when it comes to religion and science.

 

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude


The universe is not "ever expanding." One day, the universe will stop expanding, and it will then collapse on itself due to gravity's negative energy.

i thought krauss said our universe is flat, not closed, where this situation (big crunch ) would occur. he said that the ultimate fate was that it WAS ever expansive and in x amount of years future civilizations would not be able to detect remnants of the big bang. or maybe im wrong that video was long

 

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude


The universe is not "ever expanding." One day, the universe will stop expanding, and it will then collapse on itself due to gravity's negative energy.

i thought krauss said our universe is flat, not closed, where this situation (big crunch ) would occur. he said that the ultimate fate was that it WAS ever expansive and in x amount of years future civilizations would not be able to detect remnants of the big bang. or maybe im wrong that video was long

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

It's kind of hard to discredit a higher power if you take into account how great this ever expanding universe is. Science alone can probably prove the physics within our own realm and dimension but what about further out?

http://nerdnirvana.org/wp...ed-by-a-single-pixel.jpg

If you take into account this picture which im just posting the link to (too big of a jpg to post), It is just mind boggling how the "we" as humans can claim science is correct and quickly discredit a higher being.

Not saying that science is wrong, but theories applied here on earth can falter down the line in this universe. There is still so much to learn.

But why is the said higher being exempt from the laws of science and creation? You are amazed at the grandeur of the universe and this leads you to conclude that a higher being beyond the scope of the universe had something to do with it. I am looking beyong this said higher being. How did it come into existence? Why stop at the questioning the universe's mysteries?


Religious folks and scientists are essentially saying the same thing.....that IT has always existed (the universe or God). If you think about it, both theories are not so different. The difference is science does a much better job or atleast makes an attempt to back up their claims with experiments and logic. 

I kind of actually agreed with you up to some extent. The second paragraph was on point until the last sentence. Which is where your belief comes into play. But I dare not cross the line any further since religion is only bent to continue based on faith, where as science with "experiments and logic". It's a side everyone has to chose. Different approaches do not always merit the same conclusions and this is a great example when it comes to religion and science.

Evolution has been proven, science has done more for its cause as far as offering explanations than religion has that is why I side with it. Science doesn't have all the answers, but it certainly has more "answers" than blind faith. I also side with science because it asks more questions than religion.


-Religion says "thing in the sky did it" as a response.
-Science says creationism is false and here is the evidence (bones on dinosaurs, carbon dating, quantum physics, recreating the big bang or whatever else it is these guys do that my brain can't even begin to fathom.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

It's kind of hard to discredit a higher power if you take into account how great this ever expanding universe is. Science alone can probably prove the physics within our own realm and dimension but what about further out?

http://nerdnirvana.org/wp...ed-by-a-single-pixel.jpg

If you take into account this picture which im just posting the link to (too big of a jpg to post), It is just mind boggling how the "we" as humans can claim science is correct and quickly discredit a higher being.

Not saying that science is wrong, but theories applied here on earth can falter down the line in this universe. There is still so much to learn.

But why is the said higher being exempt from the laws of science and creation? You are amazed at the grandeur of the universe and this leads you to conclude that a higher being beyond the scope of the universe had something to do with it. I am looking beyong this said higher being. How did it come into existence? Why stop at the questioning the universe's mysteries?


Religious folks and scientists are essentially saying the same thing.....that IT has always existed (the universe or God). If you think about it, both theories are not so different. The difference is science does a much better job or atleast makes an attempt to back up their claims with experiments and logic. 

I kind of actually agreed with you up to some extent. The second paragraph was on point until the last sentence. Which is where your belief comes into play. But I dare not cross the line any further since religion is only bent to continue based on faith, where as science with "experiments and logic". It's a side everyone has to chose. Different approaches do not always merit the same conclusions and this is a great example when it comes to religion and science.

Evolution has been proven, science has done more for its cause as far as offering explanations than religion has that is why I side with it. Science doesn't have all the answers, but it certainly has more "answers" than blind faith. I also side with science because it asks more questions than religion.


-Religion says "thing in the sky did it" as a response.
-Science says creationism is false and here is the evidence (bones on dinosaurs, carbon dating, quantum physics, recreating the big bang or whatever else it is these guys do that my brain can't even begin to fathom.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by SiMPLYDiMPLY

Originally Posted by Its That Dude



The universe is not "ever expanding." One day, the universe will stop expanding, and it will then collapse on itself due to gravity's negative energy.

i thought krauss said our universe is flat, not closed, where this situation (big crunch ) would occur. he said that the ultimate fate was that it WAS ever expansive and in x amount of years future civilizations would not be able to detect remnants of the big bang. or maybe im wrong that video was long

No you're right on everything. He's saying that all other objects in the universe will eventually move so far away from us that future civilizations won't have a reference point to detect the big bang. But, there will come the day that the universe will contract/collapse into nothing because of the gravitational attraction of every object in our universe.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by SiMPLYDiMPLY

Originally Posted by Its That Dude



The universe is not "ever expanding." One day, the universe will stop expanding, and it will then collapse on itself due to gravity's negative energy.

i thought krauss said our universe is flat, not closed, where this situation (big crunch ) would occur. he said that the ultimate fate was that it WAS ever expansive and in x amount of years future civilizations would not be able to detect remnants of the big bang. or maybe im wrong that video was long

No you're right on everything. He's saying that all other objects in the universe will eventually move so far away from us that future civilizations won't have a reference point to detect the big bang. But, there will come the day that the universe will contract/collapse into nothing because of the gravitational attraction of every object in our universe.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by SiMPLYDiMPLY

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

It's kind of hard to discredit a higher power if you take into account how great this ever expanding universe is. Science alone can probably prove the physics within our own realm and dimension but what about further out?

http://nerdnirvana.org/wp...ed-by-a-single-pixel.jpg

If you take into account this picture which im just posting the link to (too big of a jpg to post), It is just mind boggling how the "we" as humans can claim science is correct and quickly discredit a higher being.

Not saying that science is wrong, but theories applied here on earth can falter down the line in this universe. There is still so much to learn.

But why is the said higher being exempt from the laws of science and creation? You are amazed at the grandeur of the universe and this leads you to conclude that a higher being beyond the scope of the universe had something to do with it. I am looking beyong this said higher being. How did it come into existence? Why stop at the questioning the universe's mysteries?

i think the same question can be applied to the universe as well though. how did the higher being come into place... well how did the universe come into place? if these theories are correct then the energy of the universe is 0 and something came from nothing... but the nothing really is something so where did that something come from. i really used to be an atheist but after thinking about the universe i kind of had a change of heart. is it an ever-expansive entity? how can you imagine the limits on the universe? it is expanding in every direction but what is it expanding INTO? what is beyond its limits. that is what blew my mind.

i make no sense but this is crazy. i really dont think we can ever have the answers in this absurd life but ... i like to dream of all of the possibilities.

If you looked at my second paragraph I made this point. They are both arguing, that something came from nothing.
  

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by SiMPLYDiMPLY

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

It's kind of hard to discredit a higher power if you take into account how great this ever expanding universe is. Science alone can probably prove the physics within our own realm and dimension but what about further out?

http://nerdnirvana.org/wp...ed-by-a-single-pixel.jpg

If you take into account this picture which im just posting the link to (too big of a jpg to post), It is just mind boggling how the "we" as humans can claim science is correct and quickly discredit a higher being.

Not saying that science is wrong, but theories applied here on earth can falter down the line in this universe. There is still so much to learn.

But why is the said higher being exempt from the laws of science and creation? You are amazed at the grandeur of the universe and this leads you to conclude that a higher being beyond the scope of the universe had something to do with it. I am looking beyong this said higher being. How did it come into existence? Why stop at the questioning the universe's mysteries?

i think the same question can be applied to the universe as well though. how did the higher being come into place... well how did the universe come into place? if these theories are correct then the energy of the universe is 0 and something came from nothing... but the nothing really is something so where did that something come from. i really used to be an atheist but after thinking about the universe i kind of had a change of heart. is it an ever-expansive entity? how can you imagine the limits on the universe? it is expanding in every direction but what is it expanding INTO? what is beyond its limits. that is what blew my mind.

i make no sense but this is crazy. i really dont think we can ever have the answers in this absurd life but ... i like to dream of all of the possibilities.

If you looked at my second paragraph I made this point. They are both arguing, that something came from nothing.
  

 

[deletedelete]

the universe will only collapse on itself if a) it has positive curvature and b) the energy density is greater than 1- thereby making it a closed universe. in a closed universe it starts from zero, reaches its maximum volume then contracts.


but krauss explained ours as flat, not closed, which means it would not collapse on itself only expand evermore

this is just what i gathered from the lecture i know nothing about astronomy

edit- anton i read your post before your edit but still, the two topics are apples and oranges. of course you can prove and disprove things with science. there are tangible elements to experiment with. the same cannot be said for faith or spirituality or whatever you want to call it. scientists study this stuff because they are able to...it deals with the physical part of the world. but there are more realms of existence than merely physical. there are just some things in this world.. idk

not at all advocating religion, religion imo is just a primitive understanding of the world before science. its about a higher force at work though...

 

[deletedelete]

the universe will only collapse on itself if a) it has positive curvature and b) the energy density is greater than 1- thereby making it a closed universe. in a closed universe it starts from zero, reaches its maximum volume then contracts.


but krauss explained ours as flat, not closed, which means it would not collapse on itself only expand evermore

this is just what i gathered from the lecture i know nothing about astronomy

edit- anton i read your post before your edit but still, the two topics are apples and oranges. of course you can prove and disprove things with science. there are tangible elements to experiment with. the same cannot be said for faith or spirituality or whatever you want to call it. scientists study this stuff because they are able to...it deals with the physical part of the world. but there are more realms of existence than merely physical. there are just some things in this world.. idk

not at all advocating religion, religion imo is just a primitive understanding of the world before science. its about a higher force at work though...

 

[philosoraptor]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

It's kind of hard to discredit a higher power if you take into account how great this ever expanding universe is. Science alone can probably prove the physics within our own realm and dimension but what about further out?

http://nerdnirvana.org/wp...ed-by-a-single-pixel.jpg

If you take into account this picture which im just posting the link to (too big of a jpg to post), It is just mind boggling how the "we" as humans can claim science is correct and quickly discredit a higher being.

Not saying that science is wrong, but theories applied here on earth can falter down the line in this universe. There is still so much to learn.

But why is the said higher being exempt from the laws of science and creation? You are amazed at the grandeur of the universe and this leads you to conclude that a higher being beyond the scope of the universe had something to do with it. I am looking beyong this said higher being. How did it come into existence? Why stop at the questioning the universe's mysteries?


Religious folks and scientists are essentially saying the same thing.....that IT has always existed (the universe or God). If you think about it, both theories are not so different. The difference is science does a much better job or atleast makes an attempt to back up their claims with experiments and logic. 

I kind of actually agreed with you up to some extent. The second paragraph was on point until the last sentence. Which is where your belief comes into play. But I dare not cross the line any further since religion is only bent to continue based on faith, where as science with "experiments and logic". It's a side everyone has to chose. Different approaches do not always merit the same conclusions and this is a great example when it comes to religion and science.

Evolution has been proven, science has done more for its cause as far as offering explanations than religion has that is why I side with it. Science doesn't have all the answers, but it certainly has more "answers" than blind faith. I also side with science because it asks more questions than religion.


-Religion says "thing in the sky did it" as a response.
-Science says creationism is false and here is the evidence (bones on dinosaurs, carbon dating, quantum physics, recreating the big bang or whatever else it is these guys do that my brain can't even begin to fathom.

Yeah i see exactly where you are coming from and it's justifiable if that is what you believe in. I like to pick and see what goes through the minds of people with different beliefs which is intriguing at times especially with threads like these.

 

[philosoraptor]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

It's kind of hard to discredit a higher power if you take into account how great this ever expanding universe is. Science alone can probably prove the physics within our own realm and dimension but what about further out?

http://nerdnirvana.org/wp...ed-by-a-single-pixel.jpg

If you take into account this picture which im just posting the link to (too big of a jpg to post), It is just mind boggling how the "we" as humans can claim science is correct and quickly discredit a higher being.

Not saying that science is wrong, but theories applied here on earth can falter down the line in this universe. There is still so much to learn.

But why is the said higher being exempt from the laws of science and creation? You are amazed at the grandeur of the universe and this leads you to conclude that a higher being beyond the scope of the universe had something to do with it. I am looking beyong this said higher being. How did it come into existence? Why stop at the questioning the universe's mysteries?


Religious folks and scientists are essentially saying the same thing.....that IT has always existed (the universe or God). If you think about it, both theories are not so different. The difference is science does a much better job or atleast makes an attempt to back up their claims with experiments and logic. 

I kind of actually agreed with you up to some extent. The second paragraph was on point until the last sentence. Which is where your belief comes into play. But I dare not cross the line any further since religion is only bent to continue based on faith, where as science with "experiments and logic". It's a side everyone has to chose. Different approaches do not always merit the same conclusions and this is a great example when it comes to religion and science.

Evolution has been proven, science has done more for its cause as far as offering explanations than religion has that is why I side with it. Science doesn't have all the answers, but it certainly has more "answers" than blind faith. I also side with science because it asks more questions than religion.


-Religion says "thing in the sky did it" as a response.
-Science says creationism is false and here is the evidence (bones on dinosaurs, carbon dating, quantum physics, recreating the big bang or whatever else it is these guys do that my brain can't even begin to fathom.

Yeah i see exactly where you are coming from and it's justifiable if that is what you believe in. I like to pick and see what goes through the minds of people with different beliefs which is intriguing at times especially with threads like these.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by SiMPLYDiMPLY

the universe will only collapse on itself if a) it has positive curvature and b) the energy density is greater than 1- thereby making it a closed universe. in a closed universe it starts from zero, reaches its maximum volume then contracts.


but krauss explained ours as flat, not closed, which means it would not collapse on itself only expand evermore

this is just what i gathered from the lecture i know nothing about astronomy

I apologize, you're right. Krauss did say that our flat universe does not contract. faulty assumption on my part.

Apologies to Mr. Philosoraptor as well

.

I'm not a phsyics major or anything like that as well. oh well. credibility shot.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by SiMPLYDiMPLY

the universe will only collapse on itself if a) it has positive curvature and b) the energy density is greater than 1- thereby making it a closed universe. in a closed universe it starts from zero, reaches its maximum volume then contracts.


but krauss explained ours as flat, not closed, which means it would not collapse on itself only expand evermore

this is just what i gathered from the lecture i know nothing about astronomy

I apologize, you're right. Krauss did say that our flat universe does not contract. faulty assumption on my part.

Apologies to Mr. Philosoraptor as well

.

I'm not a phsyics major or anything like that as well. oh well. credibility shot.

 

[patrick bateman]

Originally Posted by bruce negro

Originally Posted by Nash

OH %&$# 

Originally Posted by DipsetGeneral

Originally Posted by BLinK

*CREMATED*

 

[patrick bateman]

Originally Posted by bruce negro

Originally Posted by Nash

OH %&$# 

Originally Posted by DipsetGeneral

Originally Posted by BLinK

*CREMATED*

 

[philosoraptor]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by SiMPLYDiMPLY

the universe will only collapse on itself if a) it has positive curvature and b) the energy density is greater than 1- thereby making it a closed universe. in a closed universe it starts from zero, reaches its maximum volume then contracts.


but krauss explained ours as flat, not closed, which means it would not collapse on itself only expand evermore

this is just what i gathered from the lecture i know nothing about astronomy

I apologize, you're right. Krauss did say that our flat universe does not contract. faulty assumption on my part.

Apologies to Mr. Philosoraptor as well

.

I'm not a phsyics major or anything like that as well. oh well. credibility shot.

haha no offense taken. These threads keep me thinking and on my toes so its all good.

 

[philosoraptor]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by SiMPLYDiMPLY

the universe will only collapse on itself if a) it has positive curvature and b) the energy density is greater than 1- thereby making it a closed universe. in a closed universe it starts from zero, reaches its maximum volume then contracts.


but krauss explained ours as flat, not closed, which means it would not collapse on itself only expand evermore

this is just what i gathered from the lecture i know nothing about astronomy

I apologize, you're right. Krauss did say that our flat universe does not contract. faulty assumption on my part.

Apologies to Mr. Philosoraptor as well

.

I'm not a phsyics major or anything like that as well. oh well. credibility shot.

haha no offense taken. These threads keep me thinking and on my toes so its all good.