Interesting but potentially touchy subject....

[mytmouse76]

Originally Posted by bijald0331

Originally Posted by ShaunHillFTW49

Originally Posted by bijald0331

Just from a pure common sense standpoint, it has to be a myriad of factors with adaptation and breeding at the forefront. I don't see how it can be just one or the other.

Nope, its the melanin

  

perfect

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Fast twitch  muscles

Anyhow someone brought up an interesting point....West Africans and other Africans (northern, eastern etc.) adapted differently based on their environment. Kenyans/East Africans are great long distance runners while West Africans (where most Americans slaves were taken from) are better sprinters/jumpers.

That's just genetic diversity. People gotta realize that there's vast genetic differences amongst melanated people all over the world. Not all blacks can be lumped into one category of phenotype like western science would like us to believe. The dna strands go wayyyy back and when you try to breed people, ain't no telling what ancestors genes decided to hop out at inception.

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Fast twitch  muscles

Anyhow someone brought up an interesting point....West Africans and other Africans (northern, eastern etc.) adapted differently based on their environment. Kenyans/East Africans are great long distance runners while West Africans (where most Americans slaves were taken from) are better sprinters/jumpers.

That's just genetic diversity. People gotta realize that there's vast genetic differences amongst melanated people all over the world. Not all blacks can be lumped into one category of phenotype like western science would like us to believe. The dna strands go wayyyy back and when you try to breed people, ain't no telling what ancestors genes decided to hop out at inception.

 

[general johnson]

+1 for melanin.

 

[general johnson]

+1 for melanin.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by torgriffith

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Fast twitch  muscles

Anyhow someone brought up an interesting point....West Africans and other Africans (northern, eastern etc.) adapted differently based on their environment. Kenyans/East Africans are great long distance runners while West Africans (where most Americans slaves were taken from) are better sprinters/jumpers.

That's just genetic diversity. People gotta realize that there's vast genetic differences amongst melanated people all over the world. Not all blacks can be lumped into one category of phenotype like western science would like us to believe. The dna strands go wayyyy back and when you try to breed people, ain't no telling what ancestors genes decided to hop out at inception.

Yes I make this point a lot on NT. Africa is one of the most genetically/ethnically diverse places on earth.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by torgriffith

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Fast twitch  muscles

Anyhow someone brought up an interesting point....West Africans and other Africans (northern, eastern etc.) adapted differently based on their environment. Kenyans/East Africans are great long distance runners while West Africans (where most Americans slaves were taken from) are better sprinters/jumpers.

That's just genetic diversity. People gotta realize that there's vast genetic differences amongst melanated people all over the world. Not all blacks can be lumped into one category of phenotype like western science would like us to believe. The dna strands go wayyyy back and when you try to breed people, ain't no telling what ancestors genes decided to hop out at inception.

Yes I make this point a lot on NT. Africa is one of the most genetically/ethnically diverse places on earth.

 

[carbine]

What if this topic would have proposed the question, are whites intellectually superior than blacks? How long would it have been before the race card was pulled and flames ensued? I don't see what makes this thread any different

 

[carbine]

What if this topic would have proposed the question, are whites intellectually superior than blacks? How long would it have been before the race card was pulled and flames ensued? I don't see what makes this thread any different

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by torgriffith

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Fast twitch  muscles

Anyhow someone brought up an interesting point....West Africans and other Africans (northern, eastern etc.) adapted differently based on their environment. Kenyans/East Africans are great long distance runners while West Africans (where most Americans slaves were taken from) are better sprinters/jumpers.

That's just genetic diversity. People gotta realize that there's vast genetic differences amongst melanated people all over the world. Not all blacks can be lumped into one category of phenotype like western science would like us to believe. The dna strands go wayyyy back and when you try to breed people, ain't no telling what ancestors genes decided to hop out at inception.

I agree.

The melanin argument is no different then the eugenicists arguments that Africans were, on average, one standard deviation lower on the IQ scale. It was pure bunk.

Specific groups of people in specific areas under specific conditions (whether natural or man made) adapt to a specific environment. Caucasian, Asian, African, etc. is a very general description that is almost meaningless considering the variety within these subgroups. Europe was composed of 1k+  tribes. The same with Africa. Asia.
In America though we're very ignorant of this.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by torgriffith

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Fast twitch  muscles

Anyhow someone brought up an interesting point....West Africans and other Africans (northern, eastern etc.) adapted differently based on their environment. Kenyans/East Africans are great long distance runners while West Africans (where most Americans slaves were taken from) are better sprinters/jumpers.

That's just genetic diversity. People gotta realize that there's vast genetic differences amongst melanated people all over the world. Not all blacks can be lumped into one category of phenotype like western science would like us to believe. The dna strands go wayyyy back and when you try to breed people, ain't no telling what ancestors genes decided to hop out at inception.

I agree.

The melanin argument is no different then the eugenicists arguments that Africans were, on average, one standard deviation lower on the IQ scale. It was pure bunk.

Specific groups of people in specific areas under specific conditions (whether natural or man made) adapt to a specific environment. Caucasian, Asian, African, etc. is a very general description that is almost meaningless considering the variety within these subgroups. Europe was composed of 1k+  tribes. The same with Africa. Asia.
In America though we're very ignorant of this.

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by carbine

What if this topic would have proposed the idea that whites are intellectually superior than blacks. How long would it have been before the race card was pulled and flames ensued? I don't see what makes this thread any different

Because we've heard and seen enough of that at school, work, life, slavery, tv whatever. It's all good though. You just didn't do your research. 

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by carbine

What if this topic would have proposed the idea that whites are intellectually superior than blacks. How long would it have been before the race card was pulled and flames ensued? I don't see what makes this thread any different

Because we've heard and seen enough of that at school, work, life, slavery, tv whatever. It's all good though. You just didn't do your research. 

 

[dathbgboy]

@ some of the arguments in here. Comin from a bunch of ppl who #@+! on History majors.

Has nothin to do w/ the slave trade. Selective breeding sounds plausible but u have to think that we are 200 years removed from slavery like many have argued, slave genetics don't explain genetics of Africans and their physical/athletic dominance when it comes to certain sports.

I'll go through my History of Sports notes when I can and see if I can add some substance to this topic when I get the chance

 

[dathbgboy]

@ some of the arguments in here. Comin from a bunch of ppl who #@+! on History majors.

Has nothin to do w/ the slave trade. Selective breeding sounds plausible but u have to think that we are 200 years removed from slavery like many have argued, slave genetics don't explain genetics of Africans and their physical/athletic dominance when it comes to certain sports.

I'll go through my History of Sports notes when I can and see if I can add some substance to this topic when I get the chance

 

[carbine]

torgriffith wrote:

---

Originally Posted by carbine

What if this topic would have proposed the idea that whites are intellectually superior than blacks. How long would it have been before the race card was pulled and flames ensued? I don't see what makes this thread any different

Because we've heard and seen enough of that at school, work, life, slavery, tv whatever. It's all good though. You just didn't do your research. 


You're telling me you've never heard of blacks being physically superior than whites; especially in reference to sports, in all of those places?

  

 

[carbine]

torgriffith wrote:

---

Originally Posted by carbine

What if this topic would have proposed the idea that whites are intellectually superior than blacks. How long would it have been before the race card was pulled and flames ensued? I don't see what makes this thread any different

Because we've heard and seen enough of that at school, work, life, slavery, tv whatever. It's all good though. You just didn't do your research. 


You're telling me you've never heard of blacks being physically superior than whites; especially in reference to sports, in all of those places?

  

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by carbine

torgriffith wrote:

---

Originally Posted by carbine

What if this topic would have proposed the idea that whites are intellectually superior than blacks. How long would it have been before the race card was pulled and flames ensued? I don't see what makes this thread any different

Because we've heard and seen enough of that at school, work, life, slavery, tv whatever. It's all good though. You just didn't do your research. 

You're telling me you've never heard of blacks being physically superior than whites; especially in reference to sports, in all of those places?

  
I'm saying the argument goes both ways. But the truth has nothing to do with either side of the argument except for the truth on race relations. 

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by carbine

torgriffith wrote:

---

Originally Posted by carbine

What if this topic would have proposed the idea that whites are intellectually superior than blacks. How long would it have been before the race card was pulled and flames ensued? I don't see what makes this thread any different

Because we've heard and seen enough of that at school, work, life, slavery, tv whatever. It's all good though. You just didn't do your research. 

You're telling me you've never heard of blacks being physically superior than whites; especially in reference to sports, in all of those places?

  
I'm saying the argument goes both ways. But the truth has nothing to do with either side of the argument except for the truth on race relations. 

 

[bijald0331]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by torgriffith

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Fast twitch  muscles

Anyhow someone brought up an interesting point....West Africans and other Africans (northern, eastern etc.) adapted differently based on their environment. Kenyans/East Africans are great long distance runners while West Africans (where most Americans slaves were taken from) are better sprinters/jumpers.

That's just genetic diversity. People gotta realize that there's vast genetic differences amongst melanated people all over the world. Not all blacks can be lumped into one category of phenotype like western science would like us to believe. The dna strands go wayyyy back and when you try to breed people, ain't no telling what ancestors genes decided to hop out at inception.

I agree.

The melanin argument is no different then the eugenicists arguments that Africans were, on average, one standard deviation lower on the IQ scale. It was pure bunk.

Specific groups of people in specific areas under specific conditions (whether natural or man made) adapt to a specific environment. Caucasian, Asian, African, etc. is a very general description that is almost meaningless considering the variety within these subgroups. Europe was composed of 1k+  tribes. The same with Africa. Asia.
In America though we're very ignorant of this.

Get ready for it. They can tell you nervous!

 

[bijald0331]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by torgriffith

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Fast twitch  muscles

Anyhow someone brought up an interesting point....West Africans and other Africans (northern, eastern etc.) adapted differently based on their environment. Kenyans/East Africans are great long distance runners while West Africans (where most Americans slaves were taken from) are better sprinters/jumpers.

That's just genetic diversity. People gotta realize that there's vast genetic differences amongst melanated people all over the world. Not all blacks can be lumped into one category of phenotype like western science would like us to believe. The dna strands go wayyyy back and when you try to breed people, ain't no telling what ancestors genes decided to hop out at inception.

I agree.

The melanin argument is no different then the eugenicists arguments that Africans were, on average, one standard deviation lower on the IQ scale. It was pure bunk.

Specific groups of people in specific areas under specific conditions (whether natural or man made) adapt to a specific environment. Caucasian, Asian, African, etc. is a very general description that is almost meaningless considering the variety within these subgroups. Europe was composed of 1k+  tribes. The same with Africa. Asia.
In America though we're very ignorant of this.

Get ready for it. They can tell you nervous!

 

[general johnson]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa


The melanin argument is no different then the eugenicists arguments that Africans were, on average, one standard deviation lower on the IQ scale. It was pure bunk.

Can you please explain? How is saying that having more melanin is physically beneficial the same as saying Africans have lower IQs on average?


Doesn't melanin conduct electricity and allow signals from the brain to travel to muscle groups faster?

 

[general johnson]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa


The melanin argument is no different then the eugenicists arguments that Africans were, on average, one standard deviation lower on the IQ scale. It was pure bunk.

Can you please explain? How is saying that having more melanin is physically beneficial the same as saying Africans have lower IQs on average?


Doesn't melanin conduct electricity and allow signals from the brain to travel to muscle groups faster?

 

[itsgettinhot]

Originally Posted by Hazat50

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by DT43

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

OP is correct. It is a touchy subject though because it kind of deals with eugenics.
Whathappened was not evolution. It was more "selective breeding".  Did ittake thousands of years to produce any specific dog breed? No. In mostcases it took less than a hundred years from existing stock of variousother breeds.

. No. Why would slavemasters selectively "breed" the fastest slaves? Ifanything that would make them more likely to run away. That theorymakes no sense because running and jumping, which blacks excel in, hasNOTHING to do with slave labor. If that was the case, all African Americans should be 7' tall and jacked.

And if it's really just selective breeding, then native African athletes should be performingaround the same level as whites. But that's not true at all.. manyAfrican-born athletes have broken the 10s mark in the 100m, while nowhite athlete had ever done it until a couple weeks ago.

Your argument makes no sense.  The most physically dominant slaves were sought after since working out in the fields from dusk till dawn year after year is no easy task. Slave owners looked at their slaves as an investment and the longer/quicker your slave could work for you the greater your ROI in a sense.

Do you really believe that the slave owners were fearful of their slaves running away? You ever heard of a rifle? How about the "laws" regarding runaway slaves at that time? Where were the slaves going to run too and for how long? Yes, some slaves were successful in escaping but it was a minuscule amount compared to the total number of slaves in servitude.

What African born athletes broke the 10s in the 100m? The one from Jamaica? USA? Canada? T&T ? You mean the descendants of slaves in the western hemisphere where slavery was practiced for many centuries?

To say it has nothing to do with the slave trade is absurd. That's not saying that somehow the slave trade benefited the descendants of African slaves.
One has nothing to do with the other when it comes to that.

^ You are mistaken, there are is no such truth to that. There are African athletes who can dominate any sport just like African-American because they share common genetics. athletes like Samuel Eto'o, Didier Drogba, Hakeem Olajuwon, Nnamdi Asomugha etc. If there was selective breeding then every African-American would have Lebron type athleticism.

You act like they killed all the slaves that weren't perfect specimens.

They selectively bred many slaves,  but obviously there's going to be some that aren't as genetically gifted as the others.  That doesn't mean they get wiped out of the gene pool forever.  Also add in the fact that we are a couple generations away from slavery times and that African-Americans now breed and reproduce like any other group of people in America and selective breeding sounds like a pretty plausible explanation.

 

[itsgettinhot]

Originally Posted by Hazat50

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by DT43

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

OP is correct. It is a touchy subject though because it kind of deals with eugenics.
Whathappened was not evolution. It was more "selective breeding".  Did ittake thousands of years to produce any specific dog breed? No. In mostcases it took less than a hundred years from existing stock of variousother breeds.

. No. Why would slavemasters selectively "breed" the fastest slaves? Ifanything that would make them more likely to run away. That theorymakes no sense because running and jumping, which blacks excel in, hasNOTHING to do with slave labor. If that was the case, all African Americans should be 7' tall and jacked.

And if it's really just selective breeding, then native African athletes should be performingaround the same level as whites. But that's not true at all.. manyAfrican-born athletes have broken the 10s mark in the 100m, while nowhite athlete had ever done it until a couple weeks ago.

Your argument makes no sense.  The most physically dominant slaves were sought after since working out in the fields from dusk till dawn year after year is no easy task. Slave owners looked at their slaves as an investment and the longer/quicker your slave could work for you the greater your ROI in a sense.

Do you really believe that the slave owners were fearful of their slaves running away? You ever heard of a rifle? How about the "laws" regarding runaway slaves at that time? Where were the slaves going to run too and for how long? Yes, some slaves were successful in escaping but it was a minuscule amount compared to the total number of slaves in servitude.

What African born athletes broke the 10s in the 100m? The one from Jamaica? USA? Canada? T&T ? You mean the descendants of slaves in the western hemisphere where slavery was practiced for many centuries?

To say it has nothing to do with the slave trade is absurd. That's not saying that somehow the slave trade benefited the descendants of African slaves.
One has nothing to do with the other when it comes to that.

^ You are mistaken, there are is no such truth to that. There are African athletes who can dominate any sport just like African-American because they share common genetics. athletes like Samuel Eto'o, Didier Drogba, Hakeem Olajuwon, Nnamdi Asomugha etc. If there was selective breeding then every African-American would have Lebron type athleticism.

You act like they killed all the slaves that weren't perfect specimens.

They selectively bred many slaves,  but obviously there's going to be some that aren't as genetically gifted as the others.  That doesn't mean they get wiped out of the gene pool forever.  Also add in the fact that we are a couple generations away from slavery times and that African-Americans now breed and reproduce like any other group of people in America and selective breeding sounds like a pretty plausible explanation.