Kobe's game 7

[darthska]

TraSoul82:

---

23ska909red02:

---

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

The word that will define his overall legacy is redemption. From being on top of the world with Shaq, to falling into the pits with Katelyn, to climbing back to the top with Phil.

Well written. Perhaps a little more accurate to say 'back on top w/ Pau', though? Since Phil was there w/ Shaq earlier, but Kobe's back-to-back-to-back Finals appearances came after Pau.

I had a feeling that would come up.

I was going to say Pau, but as I started to type, the book title, "The Last Season," flashed into my head. I don't believe that Kobe would have been able climb back to the top without Phil. I think Pau is ultimately replaceable in this situation. Going with the theme of "redemption," I feel as if the greatest example was gaining Phil's trust again. Phil knew what talent was coming down the pipeline, and he chose to reunite with Kobe.
Fair enough.

From being on top of the world with Shaq & Phil, to falling into the pits with Katelyn, to climbing back to the top with Pau & Phil.

That's my final answer... and now I'm just being nitpicky.

Like I said from the jump, that was well-stated.

 

[darthska]

TraSoul82:

---

23ska909red02:

---

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

The word that will define his overall legacy is redemption. From being on top of the world with Shaq, to falling into the pits with Katelyn, to climbing back to the top with Phil.

Well written. Perhaps a little more accurate to say 'back on top w/ Pau', though? Since Phil was there w/ Shaq earlier, but Kobe's back-to-back-to-back Finals appearances came after Pau.

I had a feeling that would come up.

I was going to say Pau, but as I started to type, the book title, "The Last Season," flashed into my head. I don't believe that Kobe would have been able climb back to the top without Phil. I think Pau is ultimately replaceable in this situation. Going with the theme of "redemption," I feel as if the greatest example was gaining Phil's trust again. Phil knew what talent was coming down the pipeline, and he chose to reunite with Kobe.
Fair enough.

From being on top of the world with Shaq & Phil, to falling into the pits with Katelyn, to climbing back to the top with Pau & Phil.

That's my final answer... and now I'm just being nitpicky.

Like I said from the jump, that was well-stated.

 

[hannsum]

yeah cp dude is on od level though... dude prolly has his own child and hes doing all these laker jordan kobe research..he has a problem if he does that at his age. he prolly focus on lakers more than his job in rural oregon lmao, thank god im not like him

 

[hannsum]

yeah cp dude is on od level though... dude prolly has his own child and hes doing all these laker jordan kobe research..he has a problem if he does that at his age. he prolly focus on lakers more than his job in rural oregon lmao, thank god im not like him

 

[purplerelgn]

Originally Posted by bijald0331


And if you don't think Kobe was Robin to Shaq during those 3 title runs, I don't know what to tell you. One of the best Robins ever, no doubt. But he was still the 2nd option.

You see that's the thing though, this is flat-out wrong.

I see that all you're trying to say is that Kobe was the second option but that statement is:

1) grossly distorted and misrepresented with the use of the Batman and Robin analogy,

(On no team is averaging 29/7/6 overall and 32/9/5 on the road qualifysomeone as "Robin" unless they're playing with Wilt averaging 50 &25. Two out of the 3 years of that 3-peat, Shaq and Kobe were Superman and Batman.)

2) and still not entirely accurate. In 01 and 02, Shaq and Kobe were 1a. and 1b. where either player could (and often did) assume 1a. on any given night.

 

[purplerelgn]

Originally Posted by bijald0331


And if you don't think Kobe was Robin to Shaq during those 3 title runs, I don't know what to tell you. One of the best Robins ever, no doubt. But he was still the 2nd option.

You see that's the thing though, this is flat-out wrong.

I see that all you're trying to say is that Kobe was the second option but that statement is:

1) grossly distorted and misrepresented with the use of the Batman and Robin analogy,

(On no team is averaging 29/7/6 overall and 32/9/5 on the road qualifysomeone as "Robin" unless they're playing with Wilt averaging 50 &25. Two out of the 3 years of that 3-peat, Shaq and Kobe were Superman and Batman.)

2) and still not entirely accurate. In 01 and 02, Shaq and Kobe were 1a. and 1b. where either player could (and often did) assume 1a. on any given night.

 

[mjsaver]

Originally Posted by bijald0331

Why do people hate putting things in perspective? I hate it when posters come in and say "5 titles and that's that". Uhh no it isn't... it's called having a sports discussion.

And if you don't think Kobe was Robin to Shaq during those 3 title runs, I don't know what to tell you. One of the best Robins ever, no doubt. But he was still the 2nd option.

Sidenote: Why the hell do people keep bringing up this lame %%$ argument of not watching Jordan's game or being too young to appreciate Jordan's greatness. Have these people never heard of youtube and Hoopsencyclopedia? There is sooo much footage on Youtube of Jordan; you can become an expert on his game if you scour through those videos and study them. Just because you're old doesn't automatically mean you know that much. Anybody can flip the channel to ESPN and drink a beer. Not many people do the research like this dude CP.

I agree with most of what you said, except that Robin analogy.

Fortunately ive had a sports convo with you, and youre a student of the game no doubt.

But youve gotta remember, your the excpetion, not the rule.....Remember while we were talkin, its amazing some of the stuff these guys dont know.

And ill put some money up that most NT'ers are the same way....Unless they run to google with the quickness...lolol....

As for the Robin analgy, it just flat out sucks and only downplays Kobe's contribution during the 3 peat.

How bout Vice President like somebody said earlier, that seems a lot more accurate to me.

  

 

[mjsaver]

Originally Posted by bijald0331

Why do people hate putting things in perspective? I hate it when posters come in and say "5 titles and that's that". Uhh no it isn't... it's called having a sports discussion.

And if you don't think Kobe was Robin to Shaq during those 3 title runs, I don't know what to tell you. One of the best Robins ever, no doubt. But he was still the 2nd option.

Sidenote: Why the hell do people keep bringing up this lame %%$ argument of not watching Jordan's game or being too young to appreciate Jordan's greatness. Have these people never heard of youtube and Hoopsencyclopedia? There is sooo much footage on Youtube of Jordan; you can become an expert on his game if you scour through those videos and study them. Just because you're old doesn't automatically mean you know that much. Anybody can flip the channel to ESPN and drink a beer. Not many people do the research like this dude CP.

I agree with most of what you said, except that Robin analogy.

Fortunately ive had a sports convo with you, and youre a student of the game no doubt.

But youve gotta remember, your the excpetion, not the rule.....Remember while we were talkin, its amazing some of the stuff these guys dont know.

And ill put some money up that most NT'ers are the same way....Unless they run to google with the quickness...lolol....

As for the Robin analgy, it just flat out sucks and only downplays Kobe's contribution during the 3 peat.

How bout Vice President like somebody said earlier, that seems a lot more accurate to me.

  

 

[bijald0331]

^Were people game-planning around Shaq or Kobe? I say they would try to stop Shaq from dominating the paint (points, rebounds, defense) first.

All I'm really trying to say is Kobe wasn't the Alpha Dog. There was someone just as dominate, if not more, than him on the team. That's important when you look back at titles. It's all about perspective.

Kobe is top 10 all time without a doubt anymore. His numbers will definitely be there and he already has enough team accomplishments.

EDIT: MJsaver, see you in a little bit dude. yea vp sounds right. Gets the same point across.

 

[bijald0331]

^Were people game-planning around Shaq or Kobe? I say they would try to stop Shaq from dominating the paint (points, rebounds, defense) first.

All I'm really trying to say is Kobe wasn't the Alpha Dog. There was someone just as dominate, if not more, than him on the team. That's important when you look back at titles. It's all about perspective.

Kobe is top 10 all time without a doubt anymore. His numbers will definitely be there and he already has enough team accomplishments.

EDIT: MJsaver, see you in a little bit dude. yea vp sounds right. Gets the same point across.

 

[mjsaver]

^^

Of course he wasnt the alpadog, thats why i said VICE president.

Kobe was the 2nd option, im not arguing that.

I just didnt think it was @ the level a lotta people were trying to make it seem.

Robin has no clout whatsovever, Vice President on the other hand can still get some things done.

 

[mjsaver]

^^

Of course he wasnt the alpadog, thats why i said VICE president.

Kobe was the 2nd option, im not arguing that.

I just didnt think it was @ the level a lotta people were trying to make it seem.

Robin has no clout whatsovever, Vice President on the other hand can still get some things done.

 

[bijald0331]

^Yea, I'm agreeing with you.

Never knew Robin was so damn low on the totem pole. I have to get better at using comicbook analogies

 

[bijald0331]

^Yea, I'm agreeing with you.

Never knew Robin was so damn low on the totem pole. I have to get better at using comicbook analogies

 

[darthska]

bijald0331:

---

Why do people hate putting things in perspective? I hate it when posters come in and say "5 titles and that's that". Uhh no it isn't... it's called having a sports discussion.
Agreed. 'Bottom line is, he's got 5 rings. End of story.' No, that's not the end of the story.There's still a lot more to the story.

That's not a bad thing, but it's definitely naive to just say things like 'So and so never accomplished this, end of story' or 'He won this, this, & this, end of discussion.'

bijald0331:

---

And if you don't think Kobe was Robin to Shaq during those 3 title runs, I don't know what to tell you. One of the best Robins ever, no doubt. But he was still the 2nd option.
Exactly how I feel. If THAT Shaq were coupled with THIS Kobe and they 3-peated, I would definitely have trouble calling them 'Batman and Robin'; I would want to describe them more like Batman & Superman or something. But the way it actually was? Shaq was Batman and Kobe was Robin, bursting at the seams with anticipation & desire to shed his Robin cape for that Batman cape... and he's done exactly that. But he hadn't back then.

bijald0331:

---

Sidenote: Why the hell do people keep bringing up this lame %%$ argument of not watching Jordan's game or being too young to appreciate Jordan's greatness... you can become an expert on his game if you scour through those videos and study them. Just because you're old doesn't automatically mean you know that much. Not many people do the research like this dude CP.
THANK YOU!!!

I hate when people say that crap. 'You can't comment on ________ since you didn't see him play.'

Like I'm supposed to value the opinion of some beer-bellied 30 year old who went to a Bulls game once over the opinion of a 17 year old sports junkie with crazy knowledge.

 

[darthska]

bijald0331:

---

Why do people hate putting things in perspective? I hate it when posters come in and say "5 titles and that's that". Uhh no it isn't... it's called having a sports discussion.
Agreed. 'Bottom line is, he's got 5 rings. End of story.' No, that's not the end of the story.There's still a lot more to the story.

That's not a bad thing, but it's definitely naive to just say things like 'So and so never accomplished this, end of story' or 'He won this, this, & this, end of discussion.'

bijald0331:

---

And if you don't think Kobe was Robin to Shaq during those 3 title runs, I don't know what to tell you. One of the best Robins ever, no doubt. But he was still the 2nd option.
Exactly how I feel. If THAT Shaq were coupled with THIS Kobe and they 3-peated, I would definitely have trouble calling them 'Batman and Robin'; I would want to describe them more like Batman & Superman or something. But the way it actually was? Shaq was Batman and Kobe was Robin, bursting at the seams with anticipation & desire to shed his Robin cape for that Batman cape... and he's done exactly that. But he hadn't back then.

bijald0331:

---

Sidenote: Why the hell do people keep bringing up this lame %%$ argument of not watching Jordan's game or being too young to appreciate Jordan's greatness... you can become an expert on his game if you scour through those videos and study them. Just because you're old doesn't automatically mean you know that much. Not many people do the research like this dude CP.
THANK YOU!!!

I hate when people say that crap. 'You can't comment on ________ since you didn't see him play.'

Like I'm supposed to value the opinion of some beer-bellied 30 year old who went to a Bulls game once over the opinion of a 17 year old sports junkie with crazy knowledge.

 

[sooperhooper]

people do whatever they can to discredit bean. He's a great ball player, point blank period. But NOO people have to bring up that he's not better than another man. really?!
SMH at people saying that 'his teammates' won game 7. IT'S A TEAM GAME!!! Kobe could average 100% from the field and a triple double and the haters will say that 'but he never appeared in a 3 point shootout'.

 

[sooperhooper]

people do whatever they can to discredit bean. He's a great ball player, point blank period. But NOO people have to bring up that he's not better than another man. really?!
SMH at people saying that 'his teammates' won game 7. IT'S A TEAM GAME!!! Kobe could average 100% from the field and a triple double and the haters will say that 'but he never appeared in a 3 point shootout'.

 

[truthsquared1]

Woody and Buzz.

Woody's top dog but Buzz is more than capable of holding his own and carrying the franchise. Disguss.

*intentional spelling error*

 

[truthsquared1]

Woody and Buzz.

Woody's top dog but Buzz is more than capable of holding his own and carrying the franchise. Disguss.

*intentional spelling error*

 

[dirtyxcanto]

stats are meaningless

 

[dirtyxcanto]

stats are meaningless

 

[darthska]

sooperhooper:

---

people do whatever they can to discredit bean. He's a great ball player, point blank period.
Was just mentioning this earlier.

No, there's more to discuss. It's called a sports discussion. There's more... A LOT more... to discuss than just 'Who won the game? Who scored the most? End of discussion.'

sooperhooper:

---

But NOO people have to bring up that he's not better than another man. really?!
Well, when the question is 'Who was the MVP? Who should have been the MVP?', it's a little hard to answer that without mentioning other players, guy. Soooo, 'He's better than another man' and 'He's not better than another man'? Yeah, really.

sooperhooper:

---

Kobe could average 100% from the field and a triple double and the haters will say that 'but he never appeared in a 3 point shootout'.
But... that's not what he did.

No reason to act like it's ridiculous for people to refuse to give Kobe credit for everything you think he deserves credit for. That gives you membership to a group that sucks on here.

 

[darthska]

sooperhooper:

---

people do whatever they can to discredit bean. He's a great ball player, point blank period.
Was just mentioning this earlier.

No, there's more to discuss. It's called a sports discussion. There's more... A LOT more... to discuss than just 'Who won the game? Who scored the most? End of discussion.'

sooperhooper:

---

But NOO people have to bring up that he's not better than another man. really?!
Well, when the question is 'Who was the MVP? Who should have been the MVP?', it's a little hard to answer that without mentioning other players, guy. Soooo, 'He's better than another man' and 'He's not better than another man'? Yeah, really.

sooperhooper:

---

Kobe could average 100% from the field and a triple double and the haters will say that 'but he never appeared in a 3 point shootout'.
But... that's not what he did.

No reason to act like it's ridiculous for people to refuse to give Kobe credit for everything you think he deserves credit for. That gives you membership to a group that sucks on here.

 

[gangtsa]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Definitely not entirely true and depends on the context. If someone mentions Jerry West casually, we might remember him as The Logo. If someone starts comparing Jerry West to Michael Jordan, you best believe everything negative about his career will be pointed out to show that he's not Michael Jordan. The same goes for every other player, depending on the magnitude of the claim made about him. And this where this whole article fails.

.......and that's where it all begins and ends for Kobe Bryant and the rest of his fanbase.  If only you Kobe fans wouldn't compare or even think to compare Kobe to MJ then you might be okay.  Instead you dudes make foolish accusations trying to say Kobe is on Jordan's level or even worse yet better than MJ.  Most of you Kobe fans dig your own graves when you try to compare Kobe to MJ, all you gotta dude is just look at Kobe for who and what he is and leave it at that.

You won 1, then 2, then 3 championships w/ Shaq as the MVP and you want people to recognize that you're 'franchise player' worthy?

 

Exactly, just another example of how Kobe played the role of Robin while Shaq played the role or Batman while they were together.

jordan is jordan, bird is bird and magic is magic they are the best in their position but its unfair to really compare these new guys to them

I couldn't agree more champ, now all you gotta do is spread that message to the rest of you Lakers brethren and this forum would be alot better

.

  

lol why is it that people who've been around both players compare them.  Tex Winter and Phil jackson themselves have compared both players.  Michael Jordan himself doesn't mind the comparisons.  How does him playing behind shaq for those 3 years not mean he isn't a franchise player, he played behind one of the most dominant big men of all time.  You take either off that team and there is no 3 peat.