NaS has been SOOOOO desperate for APPROVAL since Ether....

[jordannb23]

But at the end of the day Nas holds hiphop's best catalog no rapper can go song for song

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by Free The Chief

Somewhere in between Nastradaumus and Stillmatic Nas lost something tho. Stillmatic is STILL my favorite Nas album, but to me, after that album Nas went from demanding respect to begging for it. His last 2 albums have been so desperate for attention that it's sad, man. HHID was quality music, no question, but the whole idea of naming your album Hip-Hop Is Dead is sooooooooo gimmicky. It's a cry for attention and I really struggle with respecting it. Now this new album is just crazy. Dude might as well pose nude on his cover and add some sort of glow in the dark lettering to the title or something. He's trying so hard to be accepted when skills should be able to speak for themselves.

It kinda makes you wonder if Nas was that one lame dude in HS that was talented but spent so much time perfecting his talent that he never got cool with anybody

. Dude seems so.... "I dunno" now.

I didn't really realize it until I listened to Success (American Gangster). The difference in demeanor was obvious IMO. Jay-Z hit the track with his swag on 10. Jay-Z, to me, still has a delivery that says "You HAVE to dig it, cuz it's dope" whereas Nas has that "You should dig it, cuz I deserve it" delivery now. The more I think about the line "You been in this 10, I been in it 5/ Smarten up Nas!", the more it seems like it cut deep-- even though Jay had been in the game longer than 5 years at the time...frontin *** __

. Anyway, how much of the last 16 years has Nas been trying to prove himself? It's kinda bad that I'm one of like 7 and a half people that don't worship his first album. How much pressure has Illmatic put on him tho? It's like the perception him since then has been one of "GREAT lyricist...good music".

Does anybody see what I'm talking about?

Dogs, I'm feeling just about everything you posted. I totally agree with the pre/post-Ether career comparison. I agree with the lame HS dude statement.

And I REALLY agree with the comment about Success. I said the SAME THING. The track kicks in and you're like

. Jay delivers. And then Nas comes insounding almost bored spitting some

%*%*.
I also like the Peyton/EliJay/Nas analogy. I definitely get what you're trying to say there.

And finally, I guess I'm in that 7 and a half that does NOT worship Illmatic.

My list goes:

"It Was Written" and "I Am" swap 1 and 2 depending on my mood. 9's

Lost Tapes 8 3/4

Stillmatic 8 1/2

Illmatic 8

GS, SD, HHID all 7's

NaStradamus makes me sick. Horrible album.

Like most have said, I'm not sure I'll say he's been trying to "prove" himself lately. But he definitely is acting like a major leaguerwho can't put up his normal All Star numbers anymore.

 

[free the chief]

but you came across as not being up on his music up until that point once, then sayin that was ya mans then, just asking how he got there.


I guess man...

That's obviously a misread on your part then. In actuality I was up on most of Nas's catalogue, minus those 9 songs and anintro...

9 songs.... and an intro... Not an LP... we talking bout an EP... an EP.....an EP... not anLP, an EP!


How that becomes THE determining factor on how I can judge a man's whole body of work...well... it doesn't, to be honest. I'm sure there are 9songs (whoops, can't forget the intro!) from your favorite artist that you didn't hear at their release date, so stop.

 

[x Buddha Bless x]

9 songs.... and an intro... Not an LP... we talking bout an EP... an EP.....an EP... not an LP, an EP!
Even tho you dont hold the EP in high regards its a classic EP and a lot of hip hop fans at the time of its release upto now regard it as the greatest hip hop album ever. Now you may think otherwise but some ppl will think if you aint heard illmatic you haven't heard thereal NaS. That album is the only reason he is talked about today and yes its that serious the album is that imortant to hip hop.

You may have heard it last year but sayin you haven't heard illmatic and then trying to comment on his whole career dude's will dismiss you. Its likesaying (and I hate sports examples but it fits)Jordan aint that nice and you only watched him play with the Wizards but then you go back watch tapes of everyseason of him with the Bulls and then say he was nice but he aint that good. Thats cuz you get to watch McGrady, Kobe, Carter, n so on n so forth. You wont beable to apprciate as much as you think\\

Only other way I can say it is before the Television everyone use to listen to the Radio. Rakim is the radio and illmatic is the television, get it?. Makesense or is my blunted rambling a waste?

 

[airjus23]

am i the only one that thinks HHID is garbage?
album was so all over the place...the beats didnt flow well and the messages were so jumbled. and then he had the nerve to call it hip hop is dead and then had some wack shhh on there.



and stillmatic without ether ...not classic
blueprint without takeover .... still classic.

jay without takeover ....still where he is right now.
nas without ether...done for
I agree with all of these statements. Maybe I'm the only one, but I think Jay won the battle. Aside from my opinion, no matter what way youlook at it, Nas' mass appeal was on a downward spiral and Ether helped revive it.

I hear what was said about Nas not knowing how to be himself. I prefer rappers that make it look effortless. Biggie did this so well. Canibus does not. Nas issomewhere in between, leaning more toward Canibus IMO. Not saying that I don't respect some hard work, but when it seems like you're struggling to putout quality music, no matter how good that music may be, it's not as hot to me.

 

[rockstargetmoney]

The problem is people expect to much from Nas. Everytime Nas' name comes in a discussion, people always talk about what Nas could have been or should havebeen, instead of accepting the man for who is. I don't really see any rapper $!!%$%% with this N' catalogue. He has some of the best Rap records in thegenre's history, but people are never satisfied. People are still waiting for Illmatic 2.

I know where the PS is coming from though because at times I felt Nas should beon some tip, but then I realize the+!!#%! is at his best when he's doing him. God's Son was a hot album, period. Almost as good as Stillmatic. He wasjust very personal on the record and people weren't ready for that.

They got the swagger they wanted on Stillmatic and wanted him to continue that, but he was going in another direction. Respect the mentality and the artisticfreedom. This is why Hip Hop is truly dead. The artist of today try so hard to cater to simple-minded fans and release half$@%@ music. It reminds me of the kidon Fade to Black who says he raps about drugs because that's all people want to hear.

Nas has defied categorization time and time again, while releasing classicmusic in the process. Street's Disciple just didn't have the direction. It's no different than a lot double albums. He just didn't get to makea compilation of the best tracks. Hip Hop is Dead is just a banger-front to back. If you judge Nas' career using Ether as the barometer, than you knownothing about his career. And Illmatic is pure lyrical genius. That shouldn't be up for debate. But the album that shows Nas is the best to touch the m-i-cis IWW. No rhymespitter has ever mixed lyricism and flow like that...EVER..

As I said, ain't no rapper in the game seeing Nas. Best storyteller, lyricist, catalouge....I guess this is where I say Nas is the GOAT?

Nah, I won't. though

 

[the natural mystic]

9 songs.... and an intro... Not an LP... we talking bout an EP... an EP.....an EP... not an LP, an EP!
but these are not just 9 songs G..this is Illmatic. Very powerful 9 songs. Songs that still can't be topped today.
A cry for attention? Nah..dude was always like this..since he used to say things like i went to hell for snuffin Jesus. Dude clearly didn't give a %*@%about what anyone thought and still doesn't. It's not a cry for attention. it's him being him. Something that's missing in hip-hop.Hip-hop usedto be rebel music, now it conforms with whatever is hot.Dude thought hip-hop was dead, so why not name your album that? Why is that a cry for attention when somany people thought that it was dead already? People have been saying that for years. He just had the balls to name an album that. And I love the name of thenew album. If you can dig me for a minute, hip-hop is run by corporations now..its not our thing anymore. Who runs these corporations? you answer thatyourself...so why not shove an album named N' in their face? That word is not going anywhere people..erasing the word will not erase what happend. It's genius..it's straight rebellious and that's what he has always been. He has been saying that since before Illmatic my dude. "Nas is arebel to America" So he ain't confused, he knows what he is doin.

 

[thagreatj]

Jay-Z hit the track with his swag on 10. Jay-Z, to me, still has a delivery that says "You HAVE to dig it, cuz it's dope" whereas Nas has that "You should dig it, cuz I deserve it" delivery now. The more I think about the line "You been in this 10, I been in it 5/ Smarten up Nas!", the more it seems like it cut deep-- even though Jay had been in the game longer than 5 years at the time...frontin *** __

. It's kinda bad that I'm one of like 7 and a half people that don't worship his first album. Anyway, how much of the last 16 years has Nas been trying to prove himself?How much pressure has Illmatic put on him tho? It's like the perception him since then has been one of "GREAT lyricist...good music".
1st bold..
i feel what you sayin....but a ... Nas had the Hottest line on the song (jay was better tho)

2nd bold..
im one of those 7....and a half people.but it is classic.

i cant believe some of yall are sayin HHID was garbage

the album aint classic, but garbage? NO.

The problem is people expect too much from Nas.
same with jay...which makes a lot of you guys miss some pretty good albums. God Son, BP2, KC, and HHID are great albums if you compare to otherartist, but because they are following up a classic album (or just being compared to the artist' previous work)its garbage? yall overlook good music.

 

[no escapin this]

Son , ain't up on Illmatic . Why even bother listening to duke ? I hate all these blog rappers and net nerds always whinning about stuff that makes nosense . Live b , breathe ... NAS isn't looking for anyones approval but his own .

Hip Hop is dead...

 

[thagreatj]

uppin, i like the discussion.

 

[rockstargetmoney]

. I didn't even know dude called Illmatic an EP. Illmatic is an LP.An EP has a certain time period that classifies it as such. Illmatic fits the description of an LP. It's over 50 minutes. Some of music's best albumswere under 12 tracks. I guess you think every album should be 15 songs or more to be considered an album hunh?

 

[lnmymind]

HHID had no replay value

 

[illscan]

Some of music's best albums were under 12 tracks. I guess you think every album should be 15 songs or more to be considered an album hunh?

More hip hop albums need to be around 11-12 tracks. It's like dudes want useless filler joints. I don't get it.

 

[mace40]

Son , ain't up on Illmatic . Why even bother listening to duke ? I hate all these blog rappers and net nerds always whinning about stuff that makes no sense . Live b , breathe ... NAS isn't looking for anyones approval but his own .
Do you really believe that?

Really?

 

[no escapin this]

umm Yea big guy I really do ...

U good ?

 

[free the chief]

I wasn't gonna even respond to that Mace... I probably know more about music as a BUSINESS, HUSTLE, and ARTFORM than half the guy on NT...

And if you judge Nas's whole career from one album, you're the idiot, not me. I stand by what I said. Most people will base his career off of 9 songsthat he made when he was my age...and that just isn't rational. Regardless of how good they are, it's still less than 10% of his total catalogue.I'd rather form a more solid, well rounded opinion on his career and leave out the outliers. So, without ever hearing Illmatic, I came to the conclusionthat Nas was one of, if not the best solo rapper of all time... but that isn't enough, huh? I also have to think Illmatic is the rap bible on tape, orI'm not a real fan.... I guess...I also never said anything was wrong with short albums...and I also never said I was judging Nas's career based onEther. Some of you dudes are stoopid, for real. Learn to read then apply for membership on NT...

Back to the people that have made rational counters...

1st bold..
i feel what you sayin....but a ... Nas had the Hottest line on the song (jay was better tho)


I already know fam... I made that thread too remember?

but these are not just 9 songs G..this is Illmatic. Very powerful 9 songs. Songs that still can't be topped today.
A cry for attention? Nah..dude was always like this..since he used to say things like i went to hell for snuffin Jesus. Dude clearly didn't give a %*@% about what anyone thought and still doesn't. It's not a cry for attention. it's him being him. Something that's missing in hip-hop.Hip-hop used to be rebel music, now it conforms with whatever is hot.Dude thought hip-hop was dead, so why not name your album that? Why is that a cry for attention when so many people thought that it was dead already? People have been saying that for years. He just had the balls to name an album that. And I love the name of the new album. If you can dig me for a minute, hip-hop is run by corporations now..its not our thing anymore. Who runs these corporations? you answer that yourself...so why not shove an album named N' in their face? That word is not going anywhere people..erasing the word will not erase what happend. It's genius..it's straight rebellious and that's what he has always been. He has been saying that since before Illmatic my dude. "Nas is a rebel to America" So he ain't confused, he knows what he is doin.



That first part is so subjective that I won't even argue it. We'll get nowhere. As for Nas being rebelous, how many rebels are really justlonely, desperate-for-approval types anyway? It's not uncommon. I think a lot of people see me as a Nas hater for some reason, but I'm not. I just seedifferent motives that the ones he's giving me. I don't see a visionary any more, I see a gimmick. A gimmick with EMENSE talent and even more skill,but a gimmick nonetheless. You could probaby see it from my point of view if you tried hard enough/wanted to, but most fans don't want to see another sideto their heroes. I'm not that type. I'm a huge lakers fan and I love number 24, but if you ask me "Do they suck and Is Kobe an+$#@ hole?"I'll tell you straight up "...yeah

". That's what I'm trying todo in this thread and the other one about which GOOD rappers should retire. I'm trying to break people out of the herding logic man. It's ok to like arapper and admit that he has his flaws, or that his time is up. Cats "pick sides" so fast that they can no longer be real about the team their on.

Even tho you dont hold the EP in high regards its a classic EP and a lot of hip hop fans at the time of its release up to now regard it as the greatest hip hop album ever. Now you may think otherwise but some ppl will think if you aint heard illmatic you haven't heard the real NaS. That album is the only reason he is talked about today and yes its that serious the album is that imortant to hip hop.

You may have heard it last year but sayin you haven't heard illmatic and then trying to comment on his whole career dude's will dismiss you. Its like saying (and I hate sports examples but it fits)Jordan aint that nice and you only watched him play with the Wizards but then you go back watch tapes of every season of him with the Bulls and then say he was nice but he aint that good. Thats cuz you get to watch McGrady, Kobe, Carter, n so on n so forth. You wont be able to apprciate as much as you think\\

Only other way I can say it is before the Television everyone use to listen to the Radio. Rakim is the radio and illmatic is the television, get it?. Make sense or is my blunted rambling a waste?


First bold: Why would I give yours or anybody else's opinion more weight than I'd give my own. I DON'T care who thinks illmatic is the GAOATbecause I don't agree and I know more people that think like me than the other way around. Sorry for the culture shock but...gasp... there are people whothink other albums are better than Illamtic! Illmatic may be the only reason you talk about Nas, and if it is, then i'm way moreknowlegable on Nas' career than you are my friend.

I hate bad analogies... actually it would be like me missing Jordan's rookie year (I was born in 88'), but seeing the MAJORITY of his career and comingto the conclusion that even though I hear his rookie year was the @##! but never saw it, Jordan is still the GOAT. How does one album equate to me missingNas's whole career? It's his rookie album so in your anolgy it would be equivilent to Jordan's rookie year...hell...I'll give you all ofJordan's 1980's career. Illmatic = Jordan in the 80s...fine... So it's safe to say that you can't form an accurate opinion on how good Jordanwas based on the 90's according to your logic. You need to clean up that anology, because it's working more towards proving my point than yours... andif Illmatic is the Television, I believe The Blueprint is the Internet. I'm sorry, I just don't think Illmatic is THAT album, though it's prettydamn good. I'll allow the Kobe and Tmac stuff... that's actually a pretty good point and it's true. I'm not as blown away by illmatic as Iwould have been if this was the early 90s and I heard it for the first time...

 

[x Buddha Bless x]

Im pretty sure I said I hate sports analogies myself but to clarify Jordan's rookie season wasn't his best season but illmatic is NaS' best album.How you gonna flip my own analogy and say this how it really is? I know what I said and it wasn't that. Again you think otherwise and that is totallyopinion but thats the way I see and most others do. Im not gonna clean it up because I think illmatic is NaS is best album. Statistically Jordan's rookieseason is not his best season. This is what I meant that you did grasp:

I'll allow the Kobe and Tmac stuff... that's actually a pretty good point and it's true. I'm not as blown away by illmatic as I would have been if this was the early 90s and I heard it for the first time...



Ight to get that out the way this is exactly why I typed this after

Only other way I can say it is before the Television everyone use to listen to the Radio. Rakim is the radio and illmatic is the television, get it?

Now as subjectivie as that it or you think it is thats the analogy I'll be sticking with. Im not saying you have no say so cuz you didnt hear illmaticwhen it dropped cuz you were like 4 anyway but it does make a diff whether you think so or not. You can have your opinion and you def should consider thatbefore anyone elses but sometimes you have to see it from another perspective

same with jay...which makes a lot of you guys miss some pretty good albums. God Son, BP2, KC, and HHID are great albums if you compare to other artist, but because they are following up a classic album (or just being compared to the artist' previous work)its garbage? yall overlook good music.

Now I dont know where Ol Man Jigga came from but I dont know why anyone would be expecting more from him and you're really suppose to comprare arapper's album to his previous work. His album being better than the rest of the stuff out there is shallow statement cuz you're probably only takingmainstrem joint into account and if thats all you're considering its not saying much anyway. The thing about judging albums is to see if its musicallybetter than the last one. Why would I comprare KC to a Jeezy joint? who comprares garbage to a trophy in need of dusting?

 

[free the chief]

You're building your argument on opinions that you believe to be facts. Therefore, the foundation is weak and your argument is crumbling. It is not a fatcthat Illmatic is his best album. That's an opinion... so anything that comes after that is by nature disputable. So we'll probably get nowhere arguing.With that said, I'll just kill your analogy with one entirely true, infallable fact.

You can't win 6 rings in one season.

Think about that...


Take away Jordan's best season and he still has several other MVP and championship seasons, and it's perfectly fine to judge him on those alone.Likewise with Nas. Take away his "best" album, Illmatic, and there's still more than enough evidence of his superiority. IMO, It's a slap inthe face to the man himself that all his so called fans are waiting on Illmatic 2 like dude said. Dude's act like Nas is only good for illmatic...thenclaim to be Nas fans. I don't get it, really.

Like I said, your anology plays into my hand.

 

[x Buddha Bless x]

See this is what I dont get now whats your pioint? was it originally NaS doesn't need illmatic to be hailed as a great artist? Im simply saying youcan't disregard what you call a EP and just 9 songs. This back n forth has strayed away from the OP and my anaology playing into your hands hasnothing to do with my point. I never said you can't have an opinion if you missed the best season or album. Im saying it wont be complete. This is my pointwhich I clarified in my last post

I'll allow the Kobe and Tmac stuff... that's actually a pretty good point and it's true. I'm not as blown away by illmatic as I would have been if this was the early 90s and I heard it for the first time...

The impact illmatic had on you last year isn't an indication of how good the album truly is but thats not your fault. Of course this is all subjective.What you see as an argument is just somethin I want you to make you aware of and I already did cuz you admitted it 1 post ago.

You can go on with your original point now, something I never really disagreed with that much.

 

[free the chief]

Oh ok, I thought you were saying the same stuff as some of these other dudes... I agree with you to an extent. I see exactly what you mean and it'sapparent now that you see exactly what I mean as well. Either way, it's all perspective i guess.

 

[bronxbrucewayne]

Lets talk this out....

The difference in demeanor was obvious IMO. Jay-Z hit the track with his swag on 10. Jay-Z, to me, still has a delivery that says "You HAVE to dig it, cuz it's dope"
I stopped reading after that.. I cant allow myself to feel like Nas didnt bring it on a track, cuz his "swag" wasn't on a"10" and "making me dig it, because its 'DOPE'".
HHID IMO was a great album. He presented his position, without going the 50 cent route, or the Cam'ron route. He didnt make a whole album, full ofgarbage, he didnt bash all of the different types of music out, and he didnt blame anyone in particular for the fall of hip hop. He blamed the mindset thathas changed hip hop, and he presented the reasons that he thinks hip hop was, and STILL IS, in such a poor position.

if you actually listened to all the tracks, yeah he didnt address HHID in every track, but he did so in more than 5, and some outspoken, some subtle.
Nas looking for attention? NO. Not IMO at least. He's just not running around talking about how much ecstasy he just took, and how that makes him rapsGOAT, or hes not retiring then coming back a year later. Hes not leanin and rockin, or snappin and poppin. Nas has been movin to the beat of his own drumsince ILLMATIC, through if I ruled the world, Hate Me now, and even the joint with his pops. That track was fire, meanwhile dudes were given him slack formaking old folks music, losing his touch.
IDK, and i dont wanna sound 'mad' or w.e, just it seems dudes lose respect for how steady nas actually is, and how much he hasnt changed his style justto adapt to the state of the game.. ya know?

 

[no escapin this]

All these lil dudes talk about swag lol .. come on man , STOP .

 

[free the chief]

^Why would I STOP talking about swag/demeanor................. when that's what my thread is about in the first damn place? It's about how Nas carrieshimself as a person and how it reflects into his music. READ!

I'll get back to u in a second Batman.

 

[mace40]

umm Yea big guy I really do ...

U good ?

No, because it's erroneous.

 

[extradc]

Nas has always used controversy to his advantage, but that dosnt mean he is begging for respect. On back to the grill again he was talking about shooting nuns,that %@#* was unheard of then...this is nothing new.