***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[130122]

Bernie Sanders needs to sit in a corner and think about his decisions

 

[Based Jesus]

See this is the **** with the media. "Housing for migrants". We've all lived in houses. Those aren't ****ing houses.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Saying Warren is the candidate most like him is like saying berry flavored candy is closer in taste to an actual berry than it is to plain old sugar. Bernard actually has a plan for MFA, Warren just wants an expansion of medicade irrc. Don't even get me started on their difference in foreign policy. They've got a little under a year to see who comes out on top, and yall are comparing him to trump because he called out a party that definitely has an interest in him not winning.

On aggregate they are most alike and the delta between is quite small policy wise.

If you wanna go tit-for-tat then why is Warren's wealth tax more aggressive, her student loan forgiveness more robust, and all her plans have extra funding to tackle racial inequalities instead. And why is she more committed to getting rid of the filibuster than Bernie that thinks a political revolution is gonna convince Mitch McConnell to become a social Democrat.

Like I said, in some way Warren is some area Warren is more progressive. So Bernie might be the imitation, and Warren the real deal. But they themselves view each other as allies working toward the same core goals, so I don't see much use for the tit-for-tat between them.

The DNC worked with Bernie to change the rules of the primary. They allowed him to help write the rules to make them more friendly to him. But somehow because they are not rallying around him he feels slight. Gimmie a ****ing break.

 

[blastercombo]

Hate to quote Trump but Bernie is a loser and will always be a loser. You were too old and trash 8 years ago. It’s only got worse since.

 

[dacomeup]

Warren has is essentially Hillary with less baggage and Bernie wants to capture the 08' Obama crowd and actually facilitate some change.

@ Warren being "essentially Hillary".

 

[plansb]

well they are both women...

 

[RustyShackleford]

@ Warren being "essentially Hillary".

I think Hillary, especially in 2016, was more left than people realize. But with that being said Warren is way left of her. In no world would I consider they are essentially the same. Warren is a whole standard deviation left of Hillary.

Unless essentially the same means both elderly white women from the Northeast who wonkishly understand policy issues better than Bernie. Then maybe, yeah, they are essentially the same.

 

[RustyShackleford]

well they are both women...

Willing to bet Killa Mike makes this argument.

 

[IATT]

 

[blastercombo]

“They look like summer camps to me”



will never be not funny. Wish the worst on all supports of it. THE WORST

 

[deleted]

For anyone who tries to invoke Godwin's law when those "summer camps" are recognized for what they really are

 

[RustyShackleford]

AOC is exposing some classic GOP hypocrisy. They love political correctness when is comes to watering down their vile inhuman acts.

 

[youngogjosh]

On aggregate they are most alike and the delta between is quite small policy wise.

If you wanna go tit-for-tat then why is Warren's wealth tax more aggressive, her student loan forgiveness more robust, and all her plans have extra funding to tackle racial inequalities instead. And why is she more committed to getting rid of the filibuster than Bernie that thinks a political revolution is gonna convince Mitch McConnell to become a social Democrat.

Like I said, in some way Warren is some area Warren is more progressive. So Bernie might be the imitation, and Warren the real deal. But they themselves view each other as allies working toward the same core goals, so I don't see much use for the tit-for-tat between them.

The DNC worked with Bernie to change the rules of the primary. They allowed him to help write the rules to make them more friendly to him. But somehow because they are not rallying around him he feels slight. Gimmie a ****ing break.

Warren has a wealth tax because she doesn't seek to fundamentally change the system, she wishes to keep it on life support hence why a she favors such an apporach. I'll give you the racial inequalities since that's one of Bernard's biggest faults. He sees racial inequality as a poor person's issue when that's just not the case. I think Bernard was being overly hyperbolic with that McConnell tweet, that ghoul is motivated by power and power only.

 

[youngogjosh]

@ Warren being "essentially Hillary".

well they are both women...

Typical libs pulling the sexist card

To add a bit more context since I was clearly misunderstood, yall don't think Warren isn't the occupying same demographics that Hillary had in 16'?

 

[elpablo21]

I thought Chris Hayes was better than that

 

[RIP sleazyy]

I thought Chris Hayes was better than that

 

[deuce king]

Yeah, Bernie deserves the heat he's getting for this one

Glad to see that you are potentially turning on your boy @red mpls. Never too late to make the necessary changes in life champ.....or change in presidential candidates.

#FailBernie2020

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I regarded this Joe Biden stuff with annoyance for the most part but now it's crossed over into outright hostility.


Dude is trying to become president strictly based on the notion that he stood next to the first black president, and it seems he is complete unqualified and wholly unprepared for the job,


**** offends me greatly.

 

[Belgium]

Biden sounds utterly delusional. I might not have ever set foot in the US but it doesn't take much observation to know that his talk of "civility" and "reaching across the isle" is something of the past. It's even more delusional since he was witness to the GOP doing trying their hardest to block just about anything Obama wanted to get done. Sure you can work with Republicans on some things but McConnell is pretty open about making it his mission to block whatever he can.

 

[Belgium]

If only there was some sort of safeguard against Iran's nuclear program that Iran continued to comply with...
https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...oil-tankers-very-minor-but-says-hed-go-to-war
Trump calls attacks on oil tankers 'very minor,' but says he'd go to war with Iran over nuclear weapons
President Trump called an oil tanker attack the U.S. has blamed on Iran “very minor” but said in an interview with Time magazine he would be willing to go to war to prevent the nation from acquiring nuclear weapons.

Trump was noncommittal on whether protecting international oil supplies would be a justification for war, telling the magazine, “I would certainly go over nuclear weapons, and I would keep the other a question mark.”

Trump told the magazine the Gulf of Oman, where the attack occurred, is less strategically important to the U.S. than it has been in years past, adding it was more relevant to Chinese and Japanese interests.

“Other places get such vast amounts of oil there,” Trump told the magazine. “We get very little. We have made tremendous progress in the last two and a half years in energy.”

Trump added that while he agreed with assessments blaming Iran for the attack, he believed Iran’s government has been less hostile toward the U.S. since his inauguration.

“If you look at the rhetoric now compared to the days when they were signing [the 2015 nuclear deal], where it was always ‘death to America, death to America, we will destroy America, we will kill America,’ I’m not hearing that too much anymore,” he said.

The comments come after several days of the Pentagon and State Department indicating all options are on the table in response to the Thursday attack, for which Iran has denied responsibility.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Sunday that the U.S. is looking at “a full range of options,” including a potential military response, and is scheduled to visit U.S. Central Command, which oversees U.S. military operations in the Middle East, on Tuesday.

Acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan, meanwhile, announced Monday evening the Defense Department has authorized the deployment of about 1,000 additional troops to the region for “defensive purposes.”

“The recent Iranian attacks validate the reliable, credible intelligence we have received on hostile behavior by Iranian forces and their proxy groups that threaten United States personnel and interests across the region,” he said in a statement.

The United Kingdom and Saudi Arabia have said they agree with the U.S. assessment, but Germany's foreign minister has said the U.S. must present further evidence. The owner of one of the two ships involved in the attack has also contradicted the U.S. account.

In recent months, Iran has announced it will scale back some of its commitments under the 2015 nuclear deal, with Trump withdrew the U.S. from more than a year ago.

I feel like I've heard this before somewhere
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/politics/us-iran.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage
Iran Has Ties to Al Qaeda, Trump Officials Tell Skeptical Congress
Administration officials are briefing Congress on what they say are ties between Iran and Al Qaeda, prompting skeptical reactions and concern on Capitol Hill that the White House could invoke the war authorization passed in 2001 as legal cover for military action against Tehran.

As tensions between the United States and Iran have surged, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Pentagon officials have told members of Congress and aides in recent weeks about what they say is a pattern of ties between Iran and the terrorist group going back to after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, officials said.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Glad to see that you are potentially turning on your boy @red mpls. Never too late to make the necessary changes in life champ.....or change in presidential candidates.

#FailBernie2020

 

[noskey]

yall don't think Warren isn't the occupying same demographics that Hillary had in 16'?

Nope. Unless you mean having a plan.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Typical libs pulling the sexist card

To add a bit more context since I was clearly misunderstood, yall don't think Warren isn't the occupying same demographics that Hillary had in 16'?

No.

But why don't you enlighten us on what demographics Hillary and Warren both share that make them essentially the same.

I am really interested in hearing this. Srs

 

[Belgium]

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/19/hope-hicks-testimony-trump-oversight-1368164
'It’s a farce': Dems livid as Hope Hicks dodges questions
Trump's former longtime confidante met with lawmakers behind closed doors to discuss the president's alleged efforts to thwart Mueller's Russia probe.
House Democrats erupted Wednesday at what they said was the White House’s repeated interference in their interview with Hope Hicks, a longtime confidante of President Donald Trump who was a central witness in special counsel Robert Mueller’s obstruction of justice investigation.

Several House Judiciary Committee members exiting the closed-door interview said a White House lawyer repeatedly claimed Hicks had blanket immunity from discussing her time in the White House. They said she wouldn’t answer questions as basic as where she sat in the West Wing or whether she told the truth to Mueller.

Excerpts:

 

[rexanglorum]

Capital is a powerful political force and it dictates the agenda for both major US political parties, it tries to optimize its returns based on the conditions it faces and it is willing to play the long game.

Right now, Capital has two plans for the Democratic Party. Plan is A is get Joe Biden nominated. Biden will internally discipline and shut out the left wing of the Party. Biden will continue the policies of mass incarceration, within the Country; concentration camps, at the border; and imperialism, throughout the global South, all as part the mass violence that capital requires to control the restive and aggravated and increasingly disposable populations amid inreasingly dire economic and ecological crises. Lastly, Biden will use anti-politics as a weapon and as a way of professing loyalty and fealty to capital. The claim that he can work with Republicans is, on its face, absurd, but that's the whole point. To be performatively centrist in 2019 is to reassure capital that it will go unchallenged no matter how many crises it causes in this coming decade and beyond.

If the votes just are not there for Biden, Capital has a plan B and that plan B is Warren. Warren represents a temporary and controlled retreat for Capital. It represents damage control for capital. Nevertheless, Warren is a far superior outcome, as far as capital is concerned, than Sanders. Sanders believes in dual power, using direct action in concert with electoral politics. Warren wants similar policies as Sanders but she only wants electoralism, she wants a top down approach which is much easier to counter than direct action and electoralism.

While the ideological distant between Sanders and Warren is not too big, they still sit on opposite sides of an ideological watershed. Warren holds the left most of the pro Capitalist positions and Sanders is the right most of the anti Capitalist positions. Assuming either gets elected and either gets a cooperative enough Congress, both could implement policies that would make America a much more humane society and tens of millions of people would go from poverty or near poverty to much more secure and dignified lives. The main difference is that Sanders would leave behind a public that understands and practices direct action and self organizing and will be able to resist and punish the capitalist class when capitalism inevitably causes crises through out the 2020's. By contrast, the mass of people will be innervated by a Warren administration and invariably capital will causes crises and will manufacture consent amongst the public and they will be told that they must blame Warren's socialism and they must give up and their policy gains in exchange for the crisis going away.

Sanders would rework the entire body politic and make it citizen and workercentric. Warren would not. That is why I support Sanders even though Warren has a number of great policies, wants to make life better for the mass of people and is very likeable.