***Official Political Discussion Thread***

RustyShackleford said:
This is a fundamental issue I have with polularism. Making long-term political decisions based on polling snapshots leads people to some stupid decisions
Click to expand...

What do you expect when the consequences of political decisions are presented as instantaneous throughout the media ecosystem? Most people don't dive too far into politics, so very few of them understand that bills have long-term impacts; furthermore, the need to appeal to the widest amount of voters possible makes it very difficult, if not impossible, for politicians to be measured when it comes to the promises they make. Nobody can win an election by campaigning on "I will pass Bill A, which will take 1 year to get on the floor, another year to implement, and will have a positive impact on your life 2 years after the end of my term."

IATT said:
Click to expand...

Talk about a shadow governorship.
 
DLF said:


when a middle eastern tells NT he’s voting independent
Click to expand...

You should give a listen to the three most recent episodes of the Ezra Klein podcast dedicated to the Palestine-israel crisis.

The current administration is willing to work with the PA to bring about a long-term solution to the Gazan crisis. Any solution that reduces Israeli control of Palestinian territories is a step in the right direction IMO.

A right-wing US administration will not consider any of that.

I assume you're not Christian, so you don't get to hear what they say privately about supporting Israel. And trust me when I say that you don't want these religious zealots in charge.
 
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gry60 said:
You should give a listen to the three most recent episodes of the Ezra Klein podcast dedicated to the Palestine-israel crisis.

The current administration is willing to work with the PA to bring about a long-term solution to the Gazan crisis. Any solution that reduces Israeli control of Palestinian territories is a step in the right direction IMO.

A right-wing US administration will not consider any of that.

I assume you're not Christian, so you don't get to hear what they say privately about supporting Israel. And trust me when I say that you don't want these religious zealots in charge.
Click to expand...

gry60 said:
You should give a listen to the three most recent episodes of the Ezra Klein podcast dedicated to the Palestine-israel crisis.

The current administration is willing to work with the PA to bring about a long-term solution to the Gazan crisis. Any solution that reduces Israeli control of Palestinian territories is a step in the right direction IMO.

A right-wing US administration will not consider any of that.

I assume you're not Christian, so you don't get to hear what they say privately about supporting Israel. And trust me when I say that you don't want these religious zealots in charge.
Click to expand...
The US can no longer be trusted to broker a peace deal.
 
gry60 said:
You should give a listen to the three most recent episodes of the Ezra Klein podcast dedicated to the Palestine-israel crisis.

The current administration is willing to work with the PA to bring about a long-term solution to the Gazan crisis. Any solution that reduces Israeli control of Palestinian territories is a step in the right direction IMO.

A right-wing US administration will not consider any of that.

I assume you're not Christian, so you don't get to hear what they say privately about supporting Israel. And trust me when I say that you don't want these religious zealots in charge.
Click to expand...
Heres an idea:

Let Palestinians decide who leads them. Not the US. Not type UK. Not Saudi. Etc.
 
osh kosh bosh osh kosh bosh you made several good points but I’d say that you’re focusing on discrete moments of sensationalism and/or irresponsibility. My contention is a fairly narrow so I’ll try to be very precise.

The entire ecosystem of all leftist podcasters, streamers, activists who use platforms like Twitter, Twitch, youtube, tiktok, and a bunch of other social apps I’m too old to know of, let alone use, all of it. It has collectively done a better job of activating the youngest cohort of potential voters. And you are right that media ecosystem has certainly activated some young people who started with left media and their left ideology morphed into reaction or anti politics. I’m sure that “Red Scare Pod” and its parasocial relationship with its listeners caused some of them to follow the hosts on their journey from champagne socialist and cocaine socialists to reactionary ridiculous, even by online tradwife standards.

Probably more common than driving the newly politicized young people to Retvrn is driving them to anti politics or to accelerationism. But those gains for conservatism or cynicism are very small compared to what the Democratic Party gains by the fact that alternative/online left media activated a lot of people in the cohort with the lowest voter participation. It activated them when more mainstream media couldn’t.

A lot of activated voters, voters whose worldview is largely rooted in a critique of hierarchy, are a boon for Democratic candidates even if the left media sphere takes some potential votes away from Democrats.

Again, it’s a huge deal that large college towns are flipping purple States and districts and unraveling Republican counter majoritarian measures imposed since 2011. There’s a ways to go on that but gen z is looking like the final deluge causing the dam of gerrymandering and voter suppression and lawfare to break under the sheer weight of people power. Left media, on the whole, has played a huge role in that.

You have a bunch of voters who believe that hierarchies like race and class and even gender are illegitimate, they can do math and they usually know the basics of the US constitution and most of them reason that voting for every Democratic candidate in every competitive race on their ballots is a net positive in advancing a world that aligns with their values, however slightly they believe it to be.


BTW, the Trolley problem picture is true sometimes among the left, I can’t deny that.

As someone who doesn’t follow Will Stancle but sees him in my feed everyday, I can say that most leftists understand a low unemployment economy puts puts money in the pockets of people most marginalized by the labor markets, as well as being helpful for organized labor, especially for that initial step that is forming a union. At the same time, there’s structural issues in the economy and yes; as a socialist, I’d say that a truly good economy is one where everyone has a good quality of life and until than, we don’t have a good economy.

But that analysis does require nuance and young people are more likely to skip using nuanced analysis because they tend to experience stronger emotions than use approaching middle age types. That’s especially true when taking an objective look at the rest of the 21st century if their is no institutional change.

So yeah they say “Genocide Joe” but most people who are even thinking about Joe Biden 11 months before Election Day and who are outraged at Israel and the US’ tolerance of civilian casualties in Gaza, are probably going to see Trump’s calls for even more barbarism and will take a bunch of hits on their weed pen and go vote for Joe “Genocide” Biden. And a vote is a vote, begrudgingly given or not.
 
DLF said:


when a middle eastern tells NT he’s voting independent
Click to expand...

Me, when said middle easterner and their whole family get deported by Trump in 2025:
giphy (1) (6).gif



immigrationhistory.org

Muslim Travel Ban - Immigration History

The "Muslim Ban" refers to a series of the Trump administration's executive orders that prohibited travel and refugee resettlement from select predominately Muslim countries. After several legal challenges, the Supreme Court upheld most provisions of a third version of the ban.
immigrationhistory.org immigrationhistory.org

theintercept.com

Trump Revives “Muslim Ban” While GOP Courts Muslim Voters for 2024

Trump’s “Muslim ban” is back in his campaign speeches — even as the Republican Party courts Muslim voters.
theintercept.com theintercept.com
 
JRizzo5o2 said:
Me, when said middle easterner and their whole family get deported by Trump in 2025:
giphy (1) (6).gif



immigrationhistory.org

Muslim Travel Ban - Immigration History

The "Muslim Ban" refers to a series of the Trump administration's executive orders that prohibited travel and refugee resettlement from select predominately Muslim countries. After several legal challenges, the Supreme Court upheld most provisions of a third version of the ban.
immigrationhistory.org immigrationhistory.org

theintercept.com

Trump Revives “Muslim Ban” While GOP Courts Muslim Voters for 2024

Trump’s “Muslim ban” is back in his campaign speeches — even as the Republican Party courts Muslim voters.
theintercept.com theintercept.com
Click to expand...
I expect nothing else.

This is actually the response of most keyboard activists to genocide right now…

…so I imagine deportation wouldn’t even make page 12 news.
 
Last edited:
rexanglorum said:
osh kosh bosh osh kosh bosh you made several good points but I’d say that you’re focusing on discrete moments of sensationalism and/or irresponsibility. My contention is a fairly narrow so I’ll try to be very precise.

The entire ecosystem of all leftist podcasters, streamers, activists who use platforms like Twitter, Twitch, youtube, tiktok, and a bunch of other social apps I’m too old to know of, let alone use, all of it. It has collectively done a better job of activating the youngest cohort of potential voters. And you are right that media ecosystem has certainly activated some young people who started with left media and their left ideology morphed into reaction or anti politics. I’m sure that “Red Scare Pod” and its parasocial relationship with its listeners caused some of them to follow the hosts on their journey from champagne socialist and cocaine socialists to reactionary ridiculous, even by online tradwife standards.

Probably more common than driving the newly politicized young people to Retvrn is driving them to anti politics or to accelerationism. But those gains for conservatism or cynicism are very small compared to what the Democratic Party gains by the fact that alternative/online left media activated a lot of people in the cohort with the lowest voter participation. It activated them when more mainstream media couldn’t.

A lot of activated voters, voters whose worldview is largely rooted in a critique of hierarchy, are a boon for Democratic candidates even if the left media sphere takes some potential votes away from Democrats.

Again, it’s a huge deal that large college towns are flipping purple States and districts and unraveling Republican counter majoritarian measures imposed since 2011. There’s a ways to go on that but gen z is looking like the final deluge causing the dam of gerrymandering and voter suppression and lawfare to break under the sheer weight of people power. Left media, on the whole, has played a huge role in that.

You have a bunch of voters who believe that hierarchies like race and class and even gender are illegitimate, they can do math and they usually know the basics of the US constitution and most of them reason that voting for every Democratic candidate in every competitive race on their ballots is a net positive in advancing a world that aligns with their values, however slightly they believe it to be.


BTW, the Trolley problem picture is true sometimes among the left, I can’t deny that.

As someone who doesn’t follow Will Stancle but sees him in my feed everyday, I can say that most leftists understand a low unemployment economy puts puts money in the pockets of people most marginalized by the labor markets, as well as being helpful for organized labor, especially for that initial step that is forming a union. At the same time, there’s structural issues in the economy and yes; as a socialist, I’d say that a truly good economy is one where everyone has a good quality of life and until than, we don’t have a good economy.

But that analysis does require nuance and young people are more likely to skip using nuanced analysis because they tend to experience stronger emotions than use approaching middle age types. That’s especially true when taking an objective look at the rest of the 21st century if their is no institutional change.

So yeah they say “Genocide Joe” but most people who are even thinking about Joe Biden 11 months before Election Day and who are outraged at Israel and the US’ tolerance of civilian casualties in Gaza, are probably going to see Trump’s calls for even more barbarism and will take a bunch of hits on their weed pen and go vote for Joe “Genocide” Biden. And a vote is a vote, begrudgingly given or not.
Click to expand...

I hope you're right.

It's funny you mention Will Stancil, because the online left is turning on him because he won't go along with "the economy is bad" narrative.

and he's identified the same problem im talking about;



1702152247530.png


fundamentally I don't think these are discrete moments, I think these are expressions of incentive structures that are embedded on online leftism.

but I guess well wait and see.
 
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