Star Wars Universe Thread: May The 4th Be With You

Did you like The Last Jedi?

  • Yes

    Votes: 68 71.6%

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 28.4%
  • Total voters
    95
  • Poll closed .
Show All
2pacalypsenow said:
Well JGL made a great point. Rian made Luke’s character more deep. He’s not the same person from ROTJ. That’s about a 30 year gap, it’s less appealing when you have characters like Han who’s still Han in TFA. That’s like a casual approach to attract the casual nostalgic fans. If you’re really into Star Wars(this is not aimed directly to but for to anyone who reads) how are you not interested in the Luke presented in TLJ?? It shows that he’s still developing Jedi, that he hadn’t reached his potential, and he was in fact defeated by snoke through his own nephew. The Yoda scene was the icing on the cake because Luke too exiled, but didn’t know that failure was all part of it until Yoda dropped that knowledge.

What drives me nuts is how fans claimed they ruined Luke’s arc when really they presented an arc so deep that it can be interpreted in many ways. For instance, the map? Why would he leave a map if he didn’t wanted to be found? Well look at it this way. His whole school gets devastated and he’s left with nothing but to exile. Who knows what he had in plan at that moment of devastation? My theory is he exiled to be undetected from the dark side and left clues on where to find him when the going gets rough. But during his period of isolation, Luke contemplates the Jedi way which can be very destructive because there’s always an opposing force hence the destruction of his school and the cost of many lives. So he dwells on failure for years until Rey comes along, hope.

But that’s just my interpretation and they set up an arc for fans to do so. It’s like dude they gave fans an opportunity to create a story, but clearly there’s a lot of people who aren’t interested.
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I find none of this interesting.

I wouldn't argue that Luke wasn't made more deep by these decisions but from what I see Luke is no different than Obi-Wan or Yoda who failed and didn't learn from their failures because they just went on to die or sacrifice themselves.

The depth you're claiming is interesting won't be explored at all. What's left is what you've done in the rest of the post which is to ask questions, theorize and speculate on what we already know given what we've learned of Luke's motivations or lack thereof in TLJ.

I'm not against some writing leaving up things for the fan to have fun with cuz that's definitely a part of the enjoyment.
 
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Luke accepting failure and running away from responsibility isn’t deep. The disillusioned Jedi angle is cool, it has meaning. We get it, Luke is scarred, Luke is burdened. But to tell a story that lazy and uncharacteristic? You had Luke Skywalker in your film in 2017 and regressed his character.
 
I thought Rian took Luke too far. We’re built up to this moment when Rey hands him the same saber Obi-Wan gave him and he lost in Cloud City after his hand was cut off by Vader. It was truly Vader’s first lightsaber. He doesn’t even flinch at it. He doesn’t act surprised by it. He’s not even curious of how it even got off Cloud City. He just tosses it like trash. If Rian would’ve had Luke be shocked and curious as to how this saber got back to him I would’ve been more open to the arc Rian gave us for Luke. For a character that we were given, so downtrodden and beat, to not even be curious as to how Rey had it doesn’t make sense to me.

As soon as Luke tossed it something about the movie felt off. This offbeat pattern continues with Luke and Rey regarding his training her. Will you or won’t you train me. The hole in the rock and cave where the dark side apparently is supposed to be felt forced. I never did understand what Rey was looking at down there.

The caretakers felt strange to me. He’s isolated on an island with alien maids? Finally mid way through the movie now we hear Luke describe what he saw in Kylo and the next thing Rey leaves. Why didn’t that conversation happen right after Rey got there. Within 5 minutes time I’m supposed to believe this quick backstory about Kylo gravitating to the dark side and have that be the reason that Luke isolated himself. If you’re going to tell a story about a hero falling from grace then by god give us a good backstory not some flash back.

To me, this is why I felt Rian failed in conveying Luke’s character arc. Plus when he’s an astral projection and he has his beard dyed and he brushes off his shoulder like meh, it felt corny. If Rian had developed Luke’s interaction with Rey more I think I could’ve been persuaded that the character I saw was truly Luke. As it was it just felt forced and half-baked.

The Finn, Rose, Poe, Holdo, and Leia scenes didn’t do much for me either. The story felt flat and uninspired.
 
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Well if true, it appears TLJ will fall short of its initial estimated run in theaters. A good $300 million short that is.
 
Just got around to seeing it. I just don’t think the story or direction TLJ has taken is very good at all. Like Kylo is good, everything else is just bleh. Don’t like what they’ve done with Luke, Rey or Finn. My god what did they do to Finn

Force awakens for all the flaws I have with it at least had potential and set up things to play out in a great way. Then you follow it up with TLJ?

Also do I hate women if I find Rose’s character to be horrible? That’s what I’ve been told on Twitter. That I hate women
 
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Mixed on that.

While a dope scene up until that point I still didn't want Finn to die.

That's another thing, while Rian got to do what he want on some aspects it still felt safe as far as the good guys go. Killing Snoke? Okay either a surprise or anticlimactic. Killing Luke? Who didn't see that coming?

He didn't kill Leia which would've been expected but still a bit of surprise given how it happens. Can't kill Finn or Poe so he killa off Holdo who does not have much meaning.
 
That's a very highly upgraded Jar Jar.

I don't remember Jar Jar having any storylines dedicated to him, fight scenes, etc.

Just comedy relief.
 
Master Zik said:
That's a very highly upgraded Jar Jar.

I don't remember Jar Jar having any storylines dedicated to him, fight scenes, etc.

Just comedy relief.
Click to expand...

i knew that reply was coming.

unless you dont understand the concept of an UPGRADE, whats your point?

Jar Jar and Finn are the comedy relief.

does the storyline and fight scenes of Finn change that? are they signifigant to the story at all?

...or do they both (Jar Jar and Finn) come off as unnecessary and unneeded?

right.
 
seasoned vet said:
i knew that reply was coming.

unless you dont understand the concept of an UPGRADE, whats your point?
Click to expand...
Which is why I said highly upgraded.

Like its easy to say one thing is an upgrade over another when the other thing is vastly different and multifaceted.

Like BB8 is an upgrade over R2. That makes sense.

Jar Jar and Finn are the comedy relief.
Click to expand...
Wait you really believe that? This isn't some hyperbole cuz you didnt like the movie?

Finn in 2 movies was just comedy relief? :lol:

does the storyline and fight scenes of Finn change that? are they signifigant to the story at all?
Click to expand...
Yes.

When I really think about it I don't know how Finn could be your top choice for comedy relief in TLJ. Given the forced humor on the island, the forced jokes with Poe and Hux, the forced porg humor, the BB8 stuff, etc.

...or do they both (Jar Jar and Finn) come off as unnecessary and unneeded?

right.
Click to expand...
Can't agree at all here going off of TFA to TLJ.

You take Jar Jar out the prequels, one or two things need to be changed. You take Finn out of the first two sequel movies and several things need to be changed.

What exactly is the story in the first place? For you to say Finn's storylines in it mean nothing?

I mean hell Han was completely unnecessary to OT. He was just their space uber that got too involved and brought along for the war and complained he wanted nothing to do with it the whole time until he stuck around cuz he was simping for Leia.

Your reasoning for this comparison seems completely ridiculous to me now.

Its lacking some critical thinking if you compare all of the Finn scenes to all of the Jar Jar scenes.
 
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Master Zik said:
Wait you really believe that? This isn't some hyperbole cuz you didnt like the movie?

Finn in 2 movies was just comedy relief? :lol:
Click to expand...

yes. i really believe that.

and i dont play that bull **** hyperbole **** common on NT

what i say i mean



Master Zik said:
When I really think about it I don't know how Finn could be your top choice for comedy relief in TLJ. Given the forced humor on the island, the forced jokes with Poe and Hux, the forced porg humor, the BB8 stuff, etc.
Click to expand...

*facepalm*

he’s not MY top choice for comedy relief, i think thats what they were going for.
 
ARK said:
I thought Rian took Luke too far. We’re built up to this moment when Rey hands him the same saber Obi-Wan gave him and he lost in Cloud City after his hand was cut off by Vader. It was truly Vader’s first lightsaber. He doesn’t even flinch at it. He doesn’t act surprised by it. He’s not even curious of how it even got off Cloud City. He just tosses it like trash. If Rian would’ve had Luke be shocked and curious as to how this saber got back to him I would’ve been more open to the arc Rian gave us for Luke. For a character that we were given, so downtrodden and beat, to not even be curious as to how Rey had it doesn’t make sense to me.

As soon as Luke tossed it something about the movie felt off. This offbeat pattern continues with Luke and Rey regarding his training her. Will you or won’t you train me. The hole in the rock and cave where the dark side apparently is supposed to be felt forced. I never did understand what Rey was looking at down there.

The caretakers felt strange to me. He’s isolated on an island with alien maids? Finally mid way through the movie now we hear Luke describe what he saw in Kylo and the next thing Rey leaves. Why didn’t that conversation happen right after Rey got there. Within 5 minutes time I’m supposed to believe this quick backstory about Kylo gravitating to the dark side and have that be the reason that Luke isolated himself. If you’re going to tell a story about a hero falling from grace then by god give us a good backstory not some flash back.

To me, this is why I felt Rian failed in conveying Luke’s character arc. Plus when he’s an astral projection and he has his beard dyed and he brushes off his shoulder like meh, it felt corny. If Rian had developed Luke’s interaction with Rey more I think I could’ve been persuaded that the character I saw was truly Luke. As it was it just felt forced and half-baked.
Click to expand...

I thought Luke responded appropriately to the lightsaber.... It was a weapon that his father used to: kill Tusken women and children; kill Jedi and children; and to try to kill Obi-Wan... He also used the same weapon to try to kill his own father... It seemed like the right reaction to me...

Luke being coy and dismissive of Rey is no different than Yoda was when Luke got to Dagobah... It's been shown on Star Wars already that isolated Jedi tend to get a little loopy...

I have no issue with Luke's arc... I have a lot issues with the rest of the movie tho... Atleast up until the Snoke scene... It just didn't feel like a SW movie to me...
 
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seasoned vet said:
*facepalm*

he’s not MY top choice for comedy relief, i think thats what they were going for.
Click to expand...
That doesn't change much.

You saw TLJ and thought Rian was trying to make Finn the comedy relief? I can't see it.

He had his fair share of forced humor scenes after he woke up but it looked like to me Rian had him be all about his survival and solely caring for Rey. He meets Rose, she conveys some personal ****, he goes to the Dubai planet sees the corruption, meets the prisoner who happens to be a hacker who has a similar outlook he had before he met Poe and Rey, he rebels with letting the animals loose thinking he's making a difference and by the time he gets to the red sand planet he has grown as a character to the point he's willing to fight for all of the resistance and die for the cause. It doesn't seem to me his intent is Finn is comedy relief.

Now all of that had clunky execution but its there. Comedy relief characters rarely have character arcs and storylines dedicated to them. So exactly how large of an upgrade is it if Finn's just Jar Jar with more stuff to cover it up?

Jar Jar was pure comedy relief in TPM and some plot device. I don't even recall him in AOTC. Then in ROTS he's a senator or some ****? Comedy relief turned all the way down given the situation in story and due to fan backlash. Think he made like a vote in defiance at one point? Didn't mean **** cuz Palp took over anyway.

I can't see the parallels.
 
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Master Zik said:
That doesn't change much.

You saw TLJ a d thought Rian was trying to make Finn the comedy relief? I can't see it.

He had his fair share of forced humor scenes after he woke up but it looked like to me Rian had him be all about his survival and solely caring for Rey. He meets Rose, she conveys some personal ****, he goes to the Dubai planet sees the corruption, meets the prisoner who happens to be a hacker who has a similar outlook he had before he met Poe and Rey, he rebels with letting the animals loose thinking he's making a difference and by the time he gets to the red sand planet he has grown as a character to the point he's willing to fight for all of the resistance and die for the cause. It doesn't seem to me his intent is Finn is comedy relief.

Now all of that had clunky execution but its there. Comedy relief characters rarely have character arcs and storylines dedicated to them. So exactly how large of an upgrade is it if Finn's just Jar Jar with more stuff to cover it up?

Jar Jar was pure comedy relief in TPM and some plot device. I don't even recall him in AOTC. Then in ROTS he's a senator or some ****? Comedy relief turned all the way down give. The situation in story and due to fan backlash. Think he made like a vote in defiance at one point? Didn't mean **** cuz Palp took over anyway.

I can't see the parallels.
Click to expand...

i hear you.

all good points.

very thorough.
 
Ultimately, Jar Jar became the device Palpatine used to suggest to the Senate that all powers should be granted to Palpatine.

Jar Jar was filling in for Amidala and took the bait like a fool. Not in a humorous way, he was simply beat by a master manipulator playin chess over all of them.
 
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