Star Wars Universe Thread: May The 4th Be With You

[vegetaray123]

????

There has ALWAYS been "nobodies" that are force sensitive. You think all the kids in the Jedi Temple were related?

Kids galaxy wide are born with force abilities, finding them, training them, and tapping into those abilities is the goal of the Jedi. It has always been that way. Hell, George himself screwed up his own story by waiting until Luke was 18 to train, then going back and trying to say Anakin was too old to train, and he was 8.

Jedi are always searching for those strong in the force to train as future Jedi. Broom boy proves nothing, he's just another example of beings out there and Luke saying "He's not the Last Jedi"

Read my previous posts for context...

The Jedi sought out children with a high midichlorian count and trained them accordingly...One can infer infants since, as you stated Anakin was too old for their liking...

The only person in this lore prior to Rey being able to make use of the force without training was Anakin...He was subsequently heralded as the chosen one because of this...Even still his big untrained force use was reflexes that allowed him to be the only human able to pilot a pod...Something as minor as this was an obvious sign to Qui-Gon and eventually the council that he was the chosen one...He was older than the Jedi were willing to train but in the end agreed simply due to Obi-Wan saying he’d do it with or without the councils permission...

Fast forward to Luke and he was literally the “New Hope” as he was the son of the chosen one...Obi-Wan couldn’t train anybody else because there wasn’t anybody else...If there’s others in the galaxy with usable untrained force abilities, far and above what even the chosen one was able to accomplish, why wouldn’t Obi-Wan or Yoda seek them out instead?...Obi-Wan even said they they’d already lost after Luke’s initial refusal to leave Tatooine...

 

[2pacalypsenow]

No one is saying Jedi are only Skywalkers it’s the fact that the kid is using the force with out training and which was supposed to be a myth in the force awakens. Seriously I can’t wait till the next trilogy with out the Skywalkers and see how much it makes compared to these. Y’all really think Skywalkers are not that important?

I've must've missed that part, the kid was using the force in the end??? Hmmmm that's interesting I didn't notice

 

[lamekilla]

I've must've missed that part, the kid was using the force in the end??? Hmmmm that's interesting I didn't notice

Used the force to bring the broom to himself and had the nerve to play the Skywalker theme at the end. Movie is disrespectful as ****

 

[BranchLifestyle]

Used the force to bring the broom to himself and had the nerve to play the Skywalker theme at the end. Movie is disrespectful as ****

I can see it now. Luke ****sweeper. The new hero of the Galaxy.

 

[japanair21]

Hi.

So count me in the group that enjoyed my experience overall, but left the theater feeling let down by the end.

Spoiler

There were several aspects that I wish just were fleshed out better.

Finn:
I like Finn and his arc. He’s a coward, but he really does want to be a hero. But he just doesn’t know if he has the guts to be one. And he comes full circle in this. But the character of Rose seemed too much to me. Her sister dying in dramatic fashion to help the Resistance? Cool, I dig it. But Rose was a touch too over the top for me. It felt like she was overacting for most of her role. Some of it for comic relief, sure, but I just felt there was so much more she was given in just a few minutes from her sister. And sure she makes the sacrifice in the end, and while she saved Finn’s life, I would have preferred if Finn died. It would have been a nice full circle for him as a character. You tease it, you see that he’s getting so close to the door-gun that he’s just about ready to melt into nothing, and Rose sacrifices herself. I’m surprised the theater didn’t groan, because I was really disappointed by that turn of events. And then to have her kiss Finn? Megh… There’s already obviously some connection that could be made between Rey/Finn, and maybe even Rey/Poe in the future, but I don’t need another romance twist for this series. Leia/Luke/Han was enough. Speaking of Leia.

Leia:
My brother and I sat in astonishment at how stupid the scene was where Leia floats through space… They completely jumped the shark in my opinion with that scene. I don’t buy it for one second. Could she use the force and that’s how she saved herself? Sure. But it would have been such a nice ending to see Leia go how she did. Kylo not being able to kill his mother, but having the First Order do it for him, and having to live with that regret his entire life? Or, if they went with how it looked and if he DID blow up her vessel. But no, she turns into Superman and floats into a neighboring vessel. Nope, sorry Star Wars. I love you, but I can’t buy into that. I don’t care if it was Vader or Luke. Floating around in space like that? Ugh. And then she survives the entire film? I don’t know what their plans are for Leia after this, and I know they said they didn’t want to change anything because of Carrie Fisher’s death, but ugh. Star Wars to me has always been about Luke. Luke dying before Leia seems so odd.


Luke:
I totally dug the direction they were going with Luke. Going through the old tropes with Obi Wan and Yoda, through Luke. The old hermit who doesn’t want to train anyone. Sacrificing himself for a greater good. But, for some reason I didn’t buy his demise. Maybe it was too much to do that force projection, and then he faded away. Maybe he was finally at peace with “failing,” Ben Solo. Maybe it’s just something within me that really loved the old films, and wish they had killed Luke how they killed Obi Wan in A New Hope. He seems like he’s the face of the franchise, and now he’s gone, fading into the ether like Yoda. Ehh. I was expecting a more grandiose exit.


Rey & Kylo Ren (& Snoke):
I really enjoyed the first hour of the movie, with Rey expressing frustration towards Kylo, and him trying to get into her head. And Snoke revealing that he was allowing it all to happen, sure I can buy it. But all this is building towards Rey and Kylo having a showdown in Episode IX. When we got a pretty good showdown already in Episode VII. I was hoping there would be some truth to Luke being evil and turning to the dark side, and maybe Kylo and Rey would go up against their master. Or Rey turning to the dark side and Kylo turning to the light side of the force. But none of that happened, and we’re exactly where we were at the end of Episode VII. Hell, even if they had to team up to defeat Snoke in Episode IX I’d be okay with that, because he’s supposed to be so all-powerful, but he’s deceived by Kylo rather easily. Simply because he wasn’t paying attention. In RotJ, I felt like it was more understandable to have the Emperor die while he’s punishing and trying to kill Vader’s son. That leads me to my general disappointment of the film.

The Ending:

In each of the Star Wars films (sans prequels), there’s a stunning turn of events that happens that irrevocably changes the future of the series. In A New Hope, we see the death of Obi Wan, and the stunting of the empire with the destruction of the Death Star. In Empire Strikes Back, we see the rise of the Empire, and the unveiling of Vader being Luke’s father. In Return of the Jedi, we see the final destruction of the Empire as we know it, and the death of Vader. In The Force Awakens, we see the shocking death of Han Solo, and we see Rey finding Luke.

I know in The Last Jedi we see Luke fade away and he dies, but I wanted a bigger stinger. Let Kylo strike him down the way we saw Vader strike down Obi Wan. Let Finn be a martyr for his friends and the Resistance. The film wants to believe that there is renewed faith in the Rebellion, but what really led them feel that way? Most of their forces are destroyed. Luke is dead. Rey looks like she’s the next Jedi, but they still seem severely outnumbered against The First Order. Sure we see some kids utilizing the force at the very end, but I was just anticipating something bigger. A reveal in the connection between Kylo and Rey, or Rey and Luke, or Snoke and Luke. Something. I was waiting for the film to giv eme something to punch me in the gut. When Solo died in the previous film, it wasn’t surprising, but it was still a punch to the gut.

I’m cautious optimistic for Episode IX, because this will be the closure to this saga. I’m okay with that, and I’m looking forward to what they do in the future. I still liked this a lot. It was beautifully shot, and there are some dramatic moments, but for me, it just came up a bit short.

That said, here’s how I rank my favorites:

Empire Strikes Back
Rogue One
A New Hope
The Force Awakens
The Last Jedi
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
Star Wars Holiday Special
Phantom Menace.

 

[buschfan04]

I've must've missed that part, the kid was using the force in the end??? Hmmmm that's interesting I didn't notice

Yes he did. That’s one of my biggest beefs. Who knows maybe Rey still has a backstory that tells us how she can use the force and why she’s so strong but this kid should not be using the force

 

[vegetaray123]

What TLJ, and to a lesser extent TFA, says is that the entire Skywalker story and Episodes 1-6 was a sham because, well it’s old and we need new stuff now...Just like meta Kylo said several times in this movie “Let old things die”...He may as well have been talking directly to the audience...

Anakin wasn’t special because people like Rey and broom boy exist...Any number of people are even more “special”...In fact it seems to be normal...

Know all that unwavering goodness that Luke had...Like facing down a Sith Lord with minor training in an attempt to save his friends...How about tapping into the dark side in a successful attempt to pull his father back to the light? Yeah it doesn’t matter either...He’s really a guy who’d murder somebody in their sleep then run and hide while those same friends he was willing to sacrifice himself for, are dying and/or begging for his help...

This movie was written and created in spite of Star Wars fans, not for them...

 

[illmaticsoulchild]

Anakin wasn’t special because people like Rey and broom boy exist...Any number of people are even more “special”...In fact it seems to be normal...

So... you're basically saying it's akin to new age parenting? Everyone gets a medal or trophy? I have to concur, and considering SW is now a Disney property, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[lamekilla]

Luke Skywalker was a legend across the galaxy yet had disappeared and hadn’t been seen or heard from in years. He became a spark to the resistance...............................by becoming a legend and disappearing

Dog...

 

[vegetaray123]

It’s sounds ridiculous when you read it but then you realize this is the movie they released...

 

[lamekilla]

It’s sounds ridiculous when you read it but then you realize this is the movie they released...

Movie is EASILY separating the sleep from the woke....

 

[WhatisLove]

Although I was only a lurker in this thread/other Star Wars threads prior to the Disney Empire's acquisition of my favorite franchise, I remember being chastised for posting my negative opinion of Star Wars "7" two years ago. As such, I must acknowledge my satisfaction in seeing so many people confirm my position by noting how trash Star Wars "8" apparently was. (Note: I have not, and will not see any more of Disney's version of Star Wars after giving Star Wars "7" a chance two years ago.)

So, for those of you who are willing to reveal how much of a piece of trash Disney's version(s) of Star Wars are... I salute you, because such an opinion was not popular two years ago.

 

[BranchLifestyle]

Spoiler: Spoilers

Ok so, where do I even begin??

-Rey: Disney is trying too hard to have a female lead character. Her character development is next to nothing in this movie, yet she's top tier Jedi. They tried too hard to replicate Luke's training with Yoda in ESB.
-Kylo: His character is lame to me. Still getting washed by Rey. And what was Snoke's final training he was to give Kylo? Was it to kill Rey?
-Snoke: A wasted character, basically a nobody.
-Soundtrack was ok, nothing extraordinary.
-Visuals: Spot on. There were a few scenes that were terrible, terrible cgi...
-Leia force pulling herself into the ship, wtf was that?
-Luke dying was a travesty to his character. Rian changed up Luke's entire M.O. and it didn't make sense to the character from the original trilogy.
-Don't even get me started on broom boy...are you fking kidding me?
-What happened to the Knights of Ren?
-Rey coming from a couple of junkers? Jesus christ, can you say cop-out?
-Benicio Del Toro's character was so random, couldnt have hired a less prominent actor? I guess he's hurting for money cuz I sure hope that Disney didn't pay him big bucks.
-I don't want to make any rash judgements, but jeez, one of the biggest let downs in terms of movies for me.
-Not a single lightsaber fight in the entire movie...jesus christ

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[CP1708]

Read my previous posts for context...

The Jedi sought out children with a high midichlorian count and trained them accordingly...One can infer infants since, as you stated Anakin was too old for their liking...

The only person in this lore prior to Rey being able to make use of the force without training was Anakin...He was subsequently heralded as the chosen one because of this...Even still his big untrained force use was reflexes that allowed him to be the only human able to pilot a pod...Something as minor as this was an obvious sign to Qui-Gon and eventually the council that he was the chosen one...He was older than the Jedi were willing to train but in the end agreed simply due to Obi-Wan saying he’d do it with or without the councils permission...

Fast forward to Luke and he was literally the “New Hope” as he was the son of the chosen one...Obi-Wan couldn’t train anybody else because there wasn’t anybody else...If there’s others in the galaxy with usable untrained force abilities, far and above what even the chosen one was able to accomplish, why wouldn’t Obi-Wan or Yoda seek them out instead?...Obi-Wan even said they they’d already lost after Luke’s initial refusal to leave Tatooine...

You realize midiclorian has never been uttered in any of the films other than the prequels? Not in 4-6, not in Rogue One, and not in 7-8. It's just the Prequels that talk about that ridiculous midiclorian idea.

Long before those prequels came out, Luke was searching the galaxy to rebuild the Jedi Academy, and it was thru lore and legend of people with special unexplained "talents" Now, Disney wiped those stories out, so they are not "canon" any longer, but that doesn't mean it's not remembered.

But it also seems Disney is trying to wipe out Midiclorians as it was a worthless idea to begin with. As they should.

 

[Master Zik]

Maybe the kid was shown to represent hope?

It did not land or play well for me.

Especially after nobody showed up to help the Resistance

Vader didn't sense Luke was a his son, Luke's last name was Skywalker.

Before he knew he sensed something was up with the boy.

Did Vader sense Leia was his daughter? She was standing right beside him, multiple times. He didn't "sense" her, orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr she didn't have his old last name?

Leia literally doesnt matter in that context and this is by way of the writers and directors all the way up to RotJ.

That Leia had no scenes at all hinting at that with Vader or addressing it was poor storytelling. The OT is not flawless or even the greatest example of storytelling when it comes to that matter. The end of ESB screams to everybody that the twist reveal only means something to Luke.

Its like that entire part of the plot was continued when everyone was still operating under the possibility that Luke and Leia would be romantically involved or that the love triangle with Han would mean more. In the end its played as a joke given we find out they're twins and Han was insecure over nothing.

Exactly, did y'all forget when leia sent an sos but no one responded. That kid was hope for the rebels. Everyone was blinded by skywalker arc, there's also the other heroes too lol. Let the past die y'all, there's more than just the skywalkers

C'mon man, they needed help immediately, not in 12 years when that kid can join up and fight.

Or do we want a Phantom Menace scenario where 8-12 yr old former slaves are out there fighting wars for the Republic? Is IX gonna take place a decade from now?

C'mon now. A scene like that only works if the movie is a prequel and it was the final installment in the trilogy and you already know it'll work out or if the movie ended with the force is cut off from everybody or something.

Speaking to EW, Johnson spoke about how he was able to answer the question of who Rey’s parents are in the way he wanted, but acknowledges that J.J. Abrams and Chris Terrio could go their own way in Episode IX:

“I can’t speak to what they’re going to do. And there’s always, in these movies, a question of ‘a certain point of view,’…But for me, in that moment, Kylo believes it’s the truth. I don’t think he’s purely playing chess. I think that’s what he saw when they touched fingers and that’s what he believes. And when he tells her that in that moment, she believes it.”

Well if anything now I get the feeling there's barely an outline for this trilogy.

You're either doing the theme Kylo said and getting rid of the past a.k.a. breaking away from the Skywalkers or you're fully embracing that legacy and diving right into it and flourishing.

Can't have it both ways.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The movie was kinda "meh" to me. Like I was expecting some big payoffs, and they were cast aside like nothing.

I don't think I like it that much better than Episode 7 to be honest, and to keep it #1HUNNA, I personally enjoyed "Revenge of the Sith" more.

They managed to make Kylo a bigger lame that Anakin Skywalker. That is an achievement all by itself

 

[vegetaray123]

You realize midiclorian has never been uttered in any of the films other than the prequels? Not in 4-6, not in Rogue One, and not in 7-8. It's just the Prequels that talk about that ridiculous midiclorian idea.

Long before those prequels came out, Luke was searching the galaxy to rebuild the Jedi Academy, and it was thru lore and legend of people with special unexplained "talents" Now, Disney wiped those stories out, so they are not "canon" any longer, but that doesn't mean it's not remembered.

But it also seems Disney is trying to wipe out Midiclorians as it was a worthless idea to begin with. As they should.

Not disagreeing that the midichlorian thing wasn’t stupid because it certainly was...I think your missing my point...Midichlorian stuff is just what I’m using as an example here...

Put the stuff from outside the films away for a minute and we’ll just look at what’s established in the films...Since we’re on midichlorians I’ll use that as an example...

When George Lucas introduced the midichlorian stuff it wasn’t going against what was already established in the films correct? Nothing prior to that contradicted that aspect of the story...Now look at Rey and broom boy...It’s been established in the previous films that a force user requires training...Rey and the kid at the end directly contradict that...

Let’s look at another contradictory loop hole from the movie...Aim a ship at the enemy, jump into light speed and take them out...Why wouldn’t that have worked in literally any prior movie as well...Two Death Star’s, countless star destroyer’s etc...All could’ve been downed with a run down ship and a couple droids...

Keep going? Luke spent 3 films putting his friends / family / rebellion before himself...This movie again went against what the previous films had established and made him a hiding coward...Contradictory to Lukes established character...

 

[CP1708]

Yoda references "there is another" in ESB, so saying Leia didn't matter til RotJ doesn't hold water.

 

[lamekilla]

You realize midiclorian has never been uttered in any of the films other than the prequels? Not in 4-6, not in Rogue One, and not in 7-8. It's just the Prequels that talk about that ridiculous midiclorian idea.

Long before those prequels came out, Luke was searching the galaxy to rebuild the Jedi Academy, and it was thru lore and legend of people with special unexplained "talents" Now, Disney wiped those stories out, so they are not "canon" any longer, but that doesn't mean it's not remembered.

But it also seems Disney is trying to wipe out Midiclorians as it was a worthless idea to begin with. As they should.

The prequels only used the name Darth Sideous too....until this movie. And it was said by Luke. Midichlorians are more Star Wars than that Broom Boy.

 

[CP1708]

Not disagreeing that the midichlorian thing wasn’t stupid because it certainly was...I think your missing my point...Midichlorian stuff is just what I’m using as an example here...

Put the stuff from outside the films away for a minute and we’ll just look at what’s established in the films...Since we’re on midichlorians I’ll use that as an example...

When George Lucas introduced the midichlorian stuff it wasn’t going against what was already established in the films correct? Nothing prior to that contradicted that aspect of the story...Now look at Rey and broom boy...It’s been established in the previous films that a force user requires training...Rey and the kid at the end directly contradict that...

Let’s look at another contradictory loop hole from the movie...Aim a ship at the enemy, jump into light speed and take them out...Why wouldn’t that have worked in literally any prior movie as well...Two Death Star’s, countless star destroyer’s etc...All could’ve been downed with a run down ship and a couple droids...

Keep going? Luke spent 3 films putting his friends / family / rebellion before himself...This movie again went against what the previous films had established and made him a hiding coward...Contradictory to Lukes established character...

You assume everything must be shown in the first film, and no advancements can happen from there on. Check the tweets from a few pages ago.

Vader couldn't stop a blaster bolt in mid air, Kylo could. So Kylo must be stronger?
Vader didn't use lightning in ANH or ESB, so how could the Emperor use it in RotJ?

There's growth, pure and simple.

Maybe no captain thought of sacrificing themselves like that before.

Episode 7 TOLD YOU Luke was hiding/missing. You've literally known for two years.

 

[CP1708]

The prequels only used the name Darth Sideous too....until this movie. And it was said by Luke. Midichlorians are more Star Wars than that Broom Boy.

 

[crichton]

What are you saying you didn’t enjoy my guys tantrums.?

 

[vegetaray123]

You assume everything must be shown in the first film, and no advancements can happen from there on. Check the tweets from a few pages ago.

Vader couldn't stop a blaster bolt in mid air, Kylo could. So Kylo must be stronger?
Vader didn't use lightning in ANH or ESB, so how could the Emperor use it in RotJ?

There's growth, pure and simple.

Maybe no captain thought of sacrificing themselves like that before.

Episode 7 TOLD YOU Luke was hiding/missing. You've literally known for two years.

Still missing my point...

If in Episode 4 Obi-Wan says to Luke force users can’t use lightening...Then in Episode 6 the emperor uses it, well that’s contradictory to the established mythos my friend...And that’s exactly happened with this movie...

Nobody is complaining that Yoda called lightening to burn down the tree...Because THAT’S advancement...A new power never mentioned before would be considered story advancement...

A new power contradictory to what’s in previous movies...That’s Lazy writing...

 

[Jim Shady]

Spoiler

I worked with a few SW experts who contributed and maintain Wookieepedia and we all loved SW: TLJ!

First off, I'm a huge fan of Reylo. I rewatched TFA and I saw a lot of setting up for them being connected, and not just on a Force bond way. This is Anakin / Padme's story but backwards.



I think Rey will turn only to save Ben. She lets him call him "Ben" and he does not correct her. He had so many opportunities to kill her but he didn't. She is his balance. For Rey, I think she knows that she's neither good nor evil. I think this is the beginning of the Grey Jedi. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi

I think a lot of people are upset because this movie truly marked the end of the Skywalker arc. There's no definite "dark" vs "light" or "evil" vs "good" theme like in the original Trilogy. With Luke gone, and Carrie Fisher being lost (RIP), it sets up this new SW universe that anyone can be a Jedi and they can walk the line of light and dark.

My guess is: Reylo is canon, they'll have twins. My favorite ship has sailed!

Anakin only wanted power to save padme he didn't choose power over her he only lost his **** because he thought she brought obiwan to kill him